Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
HTML editors, you don't really edit the page on-the-fly. You alter the source code, and the document is re-rendered using as much cached information as possible. Another huge blocker is that the transformation is far from always easily reversible. Creating /the/ XSL-FO source for a given PDF document is impossible, unless the PDF would contain a reference to it. For a given printed layout, there are always at least a handful of ways to describe/define it in FO. An XSL-FO document is more comparable to Tex than to Word's .doc. Looking at PDF in particular, PDF editors are also not word- processors. You cannot create a blank document, or alter an existing one, in the same sense as you would with Word. iText, for example, mentions in the manual somewhere that you cannot really replace text in the PDF using the iText API, but you would have to create a new text box containing the replacement and place that over what needs to be replaced. (If I recall correctly... it's been a while since I read that; maybe this has already been changed in the meantime) PDF is, OTOH, probably *the* most suited format for getting a uniform result whether viewed on the screen or printed on paper. But I think people are right: documents are not for technicians like you and me, documents are for people. Must be readble, well formatted, colored and attractive. XSL-FO offer all instruments to create beatiful documents but... you cannot easily integrate them in a desktop application. That depends on what output format you choose. If you choose RTF, then you /can/ edit the end result in MS Word, but you have the downside that RTF is not 'Rich' enough to cover every aspect of the Recommendation, and due to that, we're again stuck with the impossibility to create /the/ XSL-FO document corresponding to /an/ RTF. I have used yet FOP during my work, and it was always the final step after a lot of elaboration: the printing/email step. Batik project offers a big support for application integration: the JSVGCanvas class and the SVGGraphics2D generator class. iText offers something similar for PDF... so I think my requirements are not so much far from the real world. Indeed, but I think the point is more: If one needs a word-processor - Word or an OO-spinoff If you need a WYSIWYG PDF editor - Acrobat or ...? If you need a WYSIWYG FO editor - Altova, oXygen, Scriptura come to mind. If I recall correctly, they all integrate FOP in some way... some do it merely by initiating a batch process, but it is possible to use only parts of FOP, if one wants. You are definitely right, that the public API is somewhat limited ATM, and the rest of the source code is currently not very friendly unless you spend quite a bit of time familiarizing yourself with it. There is no easy way to access elements of the FO document on the controller layer, as it were. FOP's design is currently based on whole-document transformations. We would need quite a bit of changes to perform a 'live' atomic re-rendering of a fo:block that is being edited, for example. Currently, there is no completely free FO editor (IIC). Only commercial implementations, using a free XSL formatter in the background. I was seriously thinking to be involved in the enhancement of the AWTViewer, but for now I have no time at all. That's unfortunate to hear. I can imagine the big effort caming from the implementation of the XSL-FO specifications... I absolutely understand you; but, as I repeat, for now I cannot be involved in the FOP project even if I like your proposal very much. Maybe in a close future... who knows? If so, be sure to direct all your questions/suggestions regarding the source code to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyway, thanks for your sincere opinion and suggestions. Likewise! Cheers Andreas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Giulio Buccini -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14757378.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
Hi Benjamin, I know that viewer, I have spent one week on Internet searching for an easy integrable pdf viewer. I have spent so much time in this research that my wife tolds me: are you searching for a lover??? :) :) pdf-render is not a real API to integrate a pdf-view into your application. Is just what it states: a pdf-viewer application, not an API for pdf view integration. Do you understand the point? The project is a little stand-alone java application. Can you imagine how many nights you must spend to understand all inner details and modify the viewer behaviour to meet needs of your own application? Yes, it can be done, but I have calculated that the effort is comparable to write your API from the scratch (!!!). If you want to fight with javadocs you wil find (in any pdf library, not only in the pdf-viewer project) a huge list of methods named like: setYYY, setKKK and description is something like: this method set the YYY value, this method sets the KKK value and so on. Wao! Is a great help for me! :) Honestly speaking, integrating a such that implementation in your application can become a nightmare. I really don't understand why programmers in this project don't want spend time in producing documentation, I really don't understand why. There is a common behaviour in all free-project community: time spent on documentation is lost time. Nothing can be more wrong: if you don't comunicate the general overview of the architecture of your solution how I can fully understand potential features of that solutions? When I take a look at that projects I saw only a list of cryptic methods. Italian says: my face looks like the one of the cow watching the train running... :) :) (I hope translation is right) The pdf-render project has very poor documentation... no tutorials, no UML diagrams, no specification documents. What pdf-renderer project offers is: 1 example on how open a pdf; 1 example on how draw an image; 11 short messages in the mailing list... Really you think this is a good project??? On the counterwise, JPedal offer a complete application example (even terrible, hostic, cryptic). Anyway really thanks, for your suggestion. I have appreciated it. Sincerely, Giulio Buccini. Benjamin Wohlwend wrote: Hi, Giulio Buccini wrote: Returning to your point, there are not so much free PDF viewer implemented in Java. Most of them are becomed commercial products while the others are really poor and bad implemented. I have adopted the JPedal Standard implementation (the one that is free): no documentation but a terrible simple application used as reference for free-users (it seems like an old old old old C code translated in java - can you imagine what a mess?? Mamma mia!). I don't know if it helps, but Sun released a free (LGPL) PDF renderer a few weeks ago. It is implemented completely in Java, you can render the document on arbitrary Swing components, on a Graphics2D context or in an image. I don't know if the API is reasonable, but the examples look quite straight forward. https://pdf-renderer.dev.java.net/ Kind regards, Benjamin Wohlwend - Giulio Buccini -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14753938.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
apply the same solution with the generated pdf document... Suggestions? Ideas? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14515390.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Giulio Buccini -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14734907.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
solution would be to teach the AWTRenderer (which is used to display the rendered document in PreviewPanel) to process the named destination elements to keep a list of the anchors/named destinations. You could then let the PreviewPanel jump to the right place. I hope that gives you a few first pointers where you can go. On 27.12.2007 17:37:27 Giulio Buccini wrote: Hi, I'm developing a java stand-alone application structured on the screen as follows: 1) a tree data structure on the left side of the screen (a JTree essentially); 2) a pdf view of tree data on the right side of the screen. My target is to provide a clear view of the final pdf document to the user. FOP code is re-generated after any data modification (add, remove, edit and so on) operated on the tree. I'm migrating my application from an HTML view to a PDF view cause of terrible troubles rising up when HTML is printed on a A4-size paper. As I understand, the only component that I can use to embed a PDF view in my application is the PreviewPanel. Nevertheless, this component is very limited: user can only jump across pages. What I need is a trick or a workaround to implement following behaviour: When user click on a element in the tree the preview panel automatically jumps to the right page and scroll to right place. Somebody knows a workaround to make this possible? In my old html-version of my application I have solved this problem by inserting many hidden anchor elements in the HTML code and using the scrollToLink method of the JDesktop pane component. Now I'm in troubles cause I cannot apply the same solution with the generated pdf document... Suggestions? Ideas? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14515390.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Giulio Buccini -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14734907.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
, there are not so much free PDF viewer implemented in Java. Most of them are becomed commercial products while the others are really poor and bad implemented. I have adopted the JPedal Standard implementation (the one that is free): no documentation but a terrible simple application used as reference for free-users (it seems like an old old old old C code translated in java - can you imagine what a mess?? Mamma mia!). I'm doing on the PDFDecoder class of JPedal exactly the same kind of work that you have suggested for the AWTRenderer: a lot of heavy personalization and implementation of basic user features (goToPage, scrollToBokkmark, zomm in/out and so on). Maybe was better trying to personalize the AWTRenderer, but main problem is lack of documentation: I have no-idea on how the AWT renderer is working internally; there is no a code example or a simple application. So I don't have a minimal base for starting implementation. The preview is so special and not in wide-spread use that there's is not a big set of examples. You'll have to figure out how things work from the source code. Start from the command-line (-awt parameter) and find out how the preview is constructed. It would be great if you document your findings on FOP's Wiki. I hope in future, FOP project, will go in the right direction: more usability, sophisticated high-level APIs, details hiding. Unless you put your energy in this, I don't think it will. Sorry. Open Source is developed in the directions the development team steers it. And you can be part of it. Sincerely, Giulio Buccini. Jeremias Maerki-2 wrote: Just a second, I think you're mixing things: PreviewPanel is not a PDF view. It's displaying the rendered document using Java2D/AWT. The PDF format is not involved at all. To your problem: If you switched to PDF (instead of PreviewPanel), i.e. embed a PDF-capable browser (or Acrobat Reader directly) in your Swing application you could make use of PDF named destinations like the anchors in HTML. This is done using the fox:destination extension element (which I just noticed is not documented anymore although it has been reimplemented in the latest release, but I'll fix that right away). How a browser or Acrobat Reader is embedded in a Swing application I can't tell you off-hand but I'm sure there are solutions on the web somewhere. I've done it in SWT once where it's certainly easier. But the whole thing could become platform-dependent that way which is bad. So the platform-independent solution would be to teach the AWTRenderer (which is used to display the rendered document in PreviewPanel) to process the named destination elements to keep a list of the anchors/named destinations. You could then let the PreviewPanel jump to the right place. I hope that gives you a few first pointers where you can go. On 27.12.2007 17:37:27 Giulio Buccini wrote: Hi, I'm developing a java stand-alone application structured on the screen as follows: 1) a tree data structure on the left side of the screen (a JTree essentially); 2) a pdf view of tree data on the right side of the screen. My target is to provide a clear view of the final pdf document to the user. FOP code is re-generated after any data modification (add, remove, edit and so on) operated on the tree. I'm migrating my application from an HTML view to a PDF view cause of terrible troubles rising up when HTML is printed on a A4-size paper. As I understand, the only component that I can use to embed a PDF view in my application is the PreviewPanel. Nevertheless, this component is very limited: user can only jump across pages. What I need is a trick or a workaround to implement following behaviour: When user click on a element in the tree the preview panel automatically jumps to the right page and scroll to right place. Somebody knows a workaround to make this possible? In my old html-version of my application I have solved this problem by inserting many hidden anchor elements in the HTML code and using the scrollToLink method of the JDesktop pane component. Now I'm in troubles cause I cannot apply the same solution with the generated pdf document... Suggestions? Ideas? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14515390.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Giulio Buccini -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14734907.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
Hi, Giulio Buccini wrote: Returning to your point, there are not so much free PDF viewer implemented in Java. Most of them are becomed commercial products while the others are really poor and bad implemented. I have adopted the JPedal Standard implementation (the one that is free): no documentation but a terrible simple application used as reference for free-users (it seems like an old old old old C code translated in java - can you imagine what a mess?? Mamma mia!). I don't know if it helps, but Sun released a free (LGPL) PDF renderer a few weeks ago. It is implemented completely in Java, you can render the document on arbitrary Swing components, on a Graphics2D context or in an image. I don't know if the API is reasonable, but the examples look quite straight forward. https://pdf-renderer.dev.java.net/ Kind regards, Benjamin Wohlwend -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14743247.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
On Jan 10, 2008, at 20:00, Giulio Buccini wrote: Hi Giulio I know: I wrote about MY requirements from MY point view... probably everyone have a different view about that and is pretty impossible to make everybody happy. I understand this... Of course, but it is always interesting to see those different views posted here. Who knows, maybe other users have similar thoughts/needs, but have so far refrained from speaking up (since they already knew, more or less, what the answer would be). snip / Microsoft Word is massively used inside big organizations, and the base concept is WYSIWG. So, if you develop a desktop application for an employe you will receive the -unsolited- question: why what I see on the screen is not what I see when I print document or when I send it by email? Why application cannot show me the final result in real time when I work on data? Word is doing that! (I cannot describe my face in similar situations... when I was working for SIEMENS this was one of the most frequent questions...) Sure, and OpenOffice has a word-processor too, and it's also completely free of any charge. The big difference with XSL formatters, is that they are not word- processors, but should rather be compared to web-browsers. A WYSIWYG XSL-FO application would be much more like an HTML editor, and AFAIK, in most HTML editors, you don't really edit the page on-the-fly. You alter the source code, and the document is re-rendered using as much cached information as possible. Another huge blocker is that the transformation is far from always easily reversible. Creating /the/ XSL-FO source for a given PDF document is impossible, unless the PDF would contain a reference to it. For a given printed layout, there are always at least a handful of ways to describe/define it in FO. An XSL-FO document is more comparable to Tex than to Word's .doc. Looking at PDF in particular, PDF editors are also not word- processors. You cannot create a blank document, or alter an existing one, in the same sense as you would with Word. iText, for example, mentions in the manual somewhere that you cannot really replace text in the PDF using the iText API, but you would have to create a new text box containing the replacement and place that over what needs to be replaced. (If I recall correctly... it's been a while since I read that; maybe this has already been changed in the meantime) PDF is, OTOH, probably *the* most suited format for getting a uniform result whether viewed on the screen or printed on paper. But I think people are right: documents are not for technicians like you and me, documents are for people. Must be readble, well formatted, colored and attractive. XSL-FO offer all instruments to create beatiful documents but... you cannot easily integrate them in a desktop application. That depends on what output format you choose. If you choose RTF, then you /can/ edit the end result in MS Word, but you have the downside that RTF is not 'Rich' enough to cover every aspect of the Recommendation, and due to that, we're again stuck with the impossibility to create /the/ XSL-FO document corresponding to /an/ RTF. I have used yet FOP during my work, and it was always the final step after a lot of elaboration: the printing/email step. Batik project offers a big support for application integration: the JSVGCanvas class and the SVGGraphics2D generator class. iText offers something similar for PDF... so I think my requirements are not so much far from the real world. Indeed, but I think the point is more: If one needs a word-processor - Word or an OO-spinoff If you need a WYSIWYG PDF editor - Acrobat or ...? If you need a WYSIWYG FO editor - Altova, oXygen, Scriptura come to mind. If I recall correctly, they all integrate FOP in some way... some do it merely by initiating a batch process, but it is possible to use only parts of FOP, if one wants. You are definitely right, that the public API is somewhat limited ATM, and the rest of the source code is currently not very friendly unless you spend quite a bit of time familiarizing yourself with it. There is no easy way to access elements of the FO document on the controller layer, as it were. FOP's design is currently based on whole-document transformations. We would need quite a bit of changes to perform a 'live' atomic re-rendering of a fo:block that is being edited, for example. Currently, there is no completely free FO editor (IIC). Only commercial implementations, using a free XSL formatter in the background. I was seriously thinking to be involved in the enhancement of the AWTViewer, but for now I have no time at all. That's unfortunate to hear. I can imagine the big effort caming from the implementation of the XSL-FO specifications... I absolutely understand you; but, as I repeat, for now I cannot be involved in the FOP project even if I like your
Re: How navigate/scroll inside the PreviewPanel
Just a second, I think you're mixing things: PreviewPanel is not a PDF view. It's displaying the rendered document using Java2D/AWT. The PDF format is not involved at all. To your problem: If you switched to PDF (instead of PreviewPanel), i.e. embed a PDF-capable browser (or Acrobat Reader directly) in your Swing application you could make use of PDF named destinations like the anchors in HTML. This is done using the fox:destination extension element (which I just noticed is not documented anymore although it has been reimplemented in the latest release, but I'll fix that right away). How a browser or Acrobat Reader is embedded in a Swing application I can't tell you off-hand but I'm sure there are solutions on the web somewhere. I've done it in SWT once where it's certainly easier. But the whole thing could become platform-dependent that way which is bad. So the platform-independent solution would be to teach the AWTRenderer (which is used to display the rendered document in PreviewPanel) to process the named destination elements to keep a list of the anchors/named destinations. You could then let the PreviewPanel jump to the right place. I hope that gives you a few first pointers where you can go. On 27.12.2007 17:37:27 Giulio Buccini wrote: Hi, I'm developing a java stand-alone application structured on the screen as follows: 1) a tree data structure on the left side of the screen (a JTree essentially); 2) a pdf view of tree data on the right side of the screen. My target is to provide a clear view of the final pdf document to the user. FOP code is re-generated after any data modification (add, remove, edit and so on) operated on the tree. I'm migrating my application from an HTML view to a PDF view cause of terrible troubles rising up when HTML is printed on a A4-size paper. As I understand, the only component that I can use to embed a PDF view in my application is the PreviewPanel. Nevertheless, this component is very limited: user can only jump across pages. What I need is a trick or a workaround to implement following behaviour: When user click on a element in the tree the preview panel automatically jumps to the right page and scroll to right place. Somebody knows a workaround to make this possible? In my old html-version of my application I have solved this problem by inserting many hidden anchor elements in the HTML code and using the scrollToLink method of the JDesktop pane component. Now I'm in troubles cause I cannot apply the same solution with the generated pdf document... Suggestions? Ideas? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-navigate-scroll-inside-the-PreviewPanel-tp14515390p14515390.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
