Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread John Long
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 06:05:33PM -0600, Scott Robison wrote: On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: git branch -D name Eh, filesystems let you delete files. Unlike most filesystems, git lets you restore your deleted branches (yes, provided you

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Nico Williams
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:18 AM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 06:05:33PM -0600, Scott Robison wrote: On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: git branch -D name Eh, filesystems let you delete files. Unlike most

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Richard Hipp
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: Nothing can really be made immutable, but you can detect mutation. No. Version 9491ba7d738528f168657adb43a198238abde19e (the SQLite 3.8.6 release) cannot be modified in any way without changing its hash value, thus

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Stephan Beal
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: not if the attacker controls it and the present. An attacker can always edit the history directly via SQLite3 access to the repo. No, he can't. Well, he can, but he will break the hashes of other records, so any

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Nico Williams
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: Nothing can really be made immutable, but you can detect mutation. No. Version 9491ba7d738528f168657adb43a198238abde19e (the SQLite 3.8.6

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Nico Williams
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Stephan Beal sgb...@googlemail.com wrote: No, he can't. Well, he can, but he will break the hashes of other records, so any tamping will be noticed. Specifically, the Z- and R-cards detect any sort of tampering. Right. He can. If you've not pushed the

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Stephan Beal
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Stephan Beal sgb...@googlemail.com wrote: No, he can't. Well, he can, but he will break the hashes of other records, so any tamping will be noticed. Specifically, the Z- and

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-11 Thread Ron W
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: (Unless you can mount a pre-image attack against SHA1 - let's assume that is impossible.) FYI, FWIW, SHA1 seems to be deprecated. There was a summary on slashdot.org about Google planning to change Chrome's default setting

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-06 Thread Stephan Beal
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: To me the designed to forget comments seem like a stretch. git branch -D name -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ http://gplus.to/sgbeal Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-06 Thread Nico Williams
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 10:22:13AM +0200, Stephan Beal wrote: On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: To me the designed to forget comments seem like a stretch. git branch -D name Eh, filesystems let you delete files. Unlike most filesystems, git

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-06 Thread Scott Robison
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: git branch -D name Eh, filesystems let you delete files. Unlike most filesystems, git lets you restore your deleted branches (yes, provided you don't gc the repo). Then just use a file system and various command

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-05 Thread Nico Williams
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Stephan Beal sgb...@googlemail.com wrote: Okay, more git bashing... Seems like a lot of the complaints are the sorts of complaints you would get about -say- laptops: - it's easy to forget you left something on your laptop two flights ago, when you had no

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-03 Thread Gour
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:07:48 -0600 Scott Robison sc...@casaderobison.com wrote: Interesting you should write this. One of my newest uses for fossil is the one case in which I'm using it distributed (even though all by myself): My blog (such as it is). It is not a unique idea at all, but I

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-03 Thread Michai Ramakers
Hello, On 3 September 2014 09:12, Gour g...@atmarama.net wrote: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:07:48 -0600 Scott Robison sc...@casaderobison.com wrote: Interesting you should write this. One of my newest uses for fossil is the one case in which I'm using it distributed (even though all by myself):

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-03 Thread Gour
On Mon, 1 Sep 2014 17:29:41 +0200 Stephan Beal sgb...@googlemail.com wrote: It occurred to me today that in nearly 31 years of using a computer i have, in total, lost more data to git (while following the instructions!!!) than any other single piece of software. Also concluded is that git is

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-03 Thread Stephan Beal
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Ron W ronw.m...@gmail.com wrote: Now that I think of it, most projects probably can't afford such strict rules for patches. LOL! Yeah, i think most of us are just happy someone sent a patch. Others will tell you, won't accept until spaces are replaced with

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread John Long
On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 05:29:41PM +0200, Stephan Beal wrote: Okay, more git bashing... Yeah. It's too easy _not_ to do. Git is just another steaming Linux-centric pile that makes me so thankful there are people like Dr. Hipp and you and all the fossil guys. Consider the following points: 1)

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Stephan Beal
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:49 PM, Scott Robison sc...@casaderobison.com wrote: Based on reading {Stephan's message}, what do you agree or disagree with? FWIW: i am in the small minority of my colleagues who regularly have problems with git. They seem to be able to do the same things, click the

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Stephan Beal
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:08 AM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: specific shells like bash or any other proprietary (yes, I said it!) gnu LOL! 8) Source control is not a hobby for normal healthy people. Hey! ;) You guys scored a huge win by creating fossil and basing it on

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Gour
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:08:41 + John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: 8) Source control is not a hobby for normal healthy people. It's not something to become an expert in for chest-banging purposes. It's a critical tool that's supposed to stay the hell out of the way and let you write and

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Scott Robison
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Gour g...@atmarama.net wrote: 9) Source control system is not only for keeping the code - here it's used for very general writings (even non-computer-related). (too) specific = selfish, universal = broad-minded. Interesting you should write this. One of my

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Dömötör Gulyás
On 2 September 2014 10:08, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote: 7) A source control system should be sensible from the point of view of the person using it to manage source code. It should not be Linux-centric. It should not require you to understand its internals to use it effectively

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Warren Young
On 9/2/2014 09:00, Dömötör Gulyás wrote: This is the main issue I have: git does not follow the principle of least surprise. I'm sure it *can* do everything, if you know all of the switches and gotchas. But you don't, even if you think you do. Apparently many advanced git users have their

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Ron W
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Scott Robison sc...@casaderobison.com wrote: It certainly wouldn't work in the same way git is used by the linux kernel team. Git was originally created by the Linux Kernel team, including Linus. It's hardly surprising that git would be a better fir for them

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread John Long
On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 02:02:39PM -0400, Ron W wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:18 AM, sky5w...@gmail.com wrote: Can Fossil offer 2 solutions? SQLite based and PostgreSQL(insert big RDB here)? I think that the only way this will happen would be to fork Fossil into a new project. This

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Scott Robison
On Sep 2, 2014 12:10 PM, Ron W ronw.m...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Scott Robison sc...@casaderobison.com wrote: It certainly wouldn't work in the same way git is used by the linux kernel team. Git was originally created by the Linux Kernel team, including Linus. It's

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Warren Young
On 9/1/2014 15:49, Scott Robison wrote: the reasons I use fossil have little to do with its distributed nature (though I'm using it more often that way as time goes by). A DVCS can be useful even to a lone developer. Several times since switching from svn to Fossil, I've spent some of my

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Joerg Sonnenberger
On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 12:08:22PM -0600, Warren Young wrote: On 9/2/2014 09:00, Dömötör Gulyás wrote: This is the main issue I have: git does not follow the principle of least surprise. I'm sure it *can* do everything, if you know all of the switches and gotchas. But you don't, even if you

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Warren Young
On 9/2/2014 12:38, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 12:08:22PM -0600, Warren Young wrote: On 9/2/2014 09:00, Dömötör Gulyás wrote: This is the main issue I have: git does not follow the principle of least surprise. Linus Torvalds is unique. No one else on the planet has a

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Ron W
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Warren Young war...@etr-usa.com wrote: If you have more than one computer connected to a VCS and at least one is mobile, you should be using a DVCS. Fossil vs Git is a side issue, when it comes to that. I do and I use Fossil (no surprise there, right?)

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Warren Young
On 9/2/2014 14:53, Ron W wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Warren Young war...@etr-usa.com mailto:war...@etr-usa.com wrote: (This is also why I've been advocating for the uber-patch feature. My experience with submitting patches (several different projects) has been (a) each patch

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Ron W
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Warren Young war...@etr-usa.com wrote: I've been running an open source project for a decade now, so I can tell you from experience that a lot of patches come in that do multiple things. Apparently, the projects I've submitted patches to have stricter rules.

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-02 Thread Warren Young
On 9/2/2014 16:07, Ron W wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Warren Young war...@etr-usa.com mailto:war...@etr-usa.com wrote: I've been running an open source project for a decade now, so I can tell you from experience that a lot of patches come in that do multiple things.

[fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-01 Thread Stephan Beal
Okay, more git bashing... After losing 3 hours' work today from something as simple as git stash save (where git stashed 3000+ untracked/generated files, despite the docs saying it doesn't do that), then not being able to do stash apply (because file already exists... for 3000+ files), and having

Re: [fossil-users] how to use git to lose data

2014-09-01 Thread Scott Robison
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Stephan Beal sgb...@googlemail.com wrote: Okay, more git bashing... {snipped stuff went here} It occurred to me today that in nearly 31 years of using a computer i have, in total, lost more data to git (while following the instructions!!!) than any other