Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-17 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 05:13:24PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: zsh: sports metaphor not found Sorry, I was attempting to inject some humor into this discussion because it has grown very tedious. I guess you didn't find my rejoinder amusing. HDDs also

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-17 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 05:02:23PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: If you use bleeding edge versions, you should already be prepared to deal with changes in behavior. I don't see the problem. I help write the bleeding edge versions. Therefore, it is useful that I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-17 Thread Michael Richter
Do you two need a room? If so, there's a local so-called love hotel I can book for you in two-hour slots. On 18 December 2012 13:00, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 05:02:23PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: If you use bleeding edge

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread daniel gregory
Disclaimer: 1) I care nothing about backward compatibility. 2) I only care about the efficiency of tools that I use to help me do my job. On Dec 15, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/16/12 03:28, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Still, I think I'm right. I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 03:36:43PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: If you are not ready for changes in default behavior, don't upgrade to the next major version number. There is no good argument for software defaults to be set in stone for all time. Just use reasonable

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:06:57AM -0500, daniel gregory wrote: I think we should write a patch… publish is and see how many people actually use the patched version instead of the real version… then we'd have an argument against the conservatives that just don't like change. That's not a bad

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 06:28:52PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Jan Danielsson wrote: First, I feel you're inventing problems to make arguments in order to exclude features which address real world issues. (A little like the script issue brought up earlier). Straw man argument.

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Joe Mistachkin
Chad Perrin wrote: If you use bleeding edge versions, you should already be prepared to deal with changes in behavior. I don't see the problem. I help write the bleeding edge versions. Therefore, it is useful that I run them on a daily basis as well. There will always be someone

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Joe Mistachkin
Chad Perrin wrote: zsh: sports metaphor not found Sorry, I was attempting to inject some humor into this discussion because it has grown very tedious. HDDs also suffer wear and tear during I/O operations, and new SSDs easily last long enough that, relative to HDDs, this should no longer

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-16 Thread Mike Meyer
I don't really care which behavior is the default. I've dealt with both long enough that neither is surprising, and my workflow doesn't change enough to notice for this. I'm just tired of seeing the bogus claim that one is somehow surprising and natural and one isn't. The only thing I want to

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Gour
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:26:33 -0800 Joe Mistachkin sql...@mistachkin.com wrote: 1. Retain the existing behavior for all current commands and aliases. It is far too dangerous to change the DEFAULT semantics of these commands now. Does it imply that Fossil should not break backward comp. ever

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:26:33 +0100, Joe Mistachkin sql...@mistachkin.com wrote: My opinion is that backward compatibility should be retained because various people, including several that may not be involved in this discussion, have existing scripts and other automation that relies upon

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Joe Mistachkin
Gour wrote: Does it imply that Fossil should not break backward comp. ever in order to evolve in certain design choices which were, as Richard himself stated the use of text/x-fossil-wiki for comment and ticket text was a mistake. ? In my opinion, breaking backward compatibility with a

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Joe Mistachkin
j. v. d. hoff wrote: I find this a confounding proposal. Would you care to explain exactly what you find confounding about it? It provides the requested functionality; however, it does so in a manner that is respectful to those who are depending on the current functionality. -- Joe

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 10:56:20 +0100, Joe Mistachkin sql...@mistachkin.com wrote: j. v. d. hoff wrote: I find this a confounding proposal. Would you care to explain exactly what you find confounding about it? has all been set way too often in this way too long thread: POLS comes again

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Joe Mistachkin
j. v. d. hoff wrote: POLS comes again to mind. The Principle of Least Surprise is not static. Changing the current behavior would be a huge (and potentially unpleasant) surprise for those who are very actively using Fossil now. I can tell you that I _was_ surprised (being also a user of

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:03:26 +0100, Joe Mistachkin sql...@mistachkin.com wrote: j. v. d. hoff wrote: POLS comes again to mind. The Principle of Least Surprise is not static. Changing the current behavior would be a huge (and potentially unpleasant) surprise for those who are very

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/15/12 05:26, Joe Mistachkin wrote: My opinion is that backward compatibility should be retained because various people, including several that may not be involved in this discussion, have existing scripts and other automation that relies upon the current behavior. I'm going to

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/15/12 11:24, j. v. d. hoff wrote: [---] and I do not buy the it'll be really dangerous for so many people prophecy. of course, if one really tries hard one can manage to get things messed up on disk (change lots of things in tracked files, but don't ever check in (clever) and then

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Gour
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:52:34 +0100 Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote: Obliterate has shun connotations for those who have used Perforce, If we go with different names, I would prefer another name for the commands. Similar here...I know 'obliterate' from darcs and the

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Eric
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 01:52:11 +0100, Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/15/12 01:06, Eric wrote: [---] 4) I am not criticizing people, merely what they say. I see evidence that they don't get where I'm coming from because they have only an incomplete idea of what this is

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Eric
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:46:22 -0700, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: Why do people feel insulted when it is suggested that they don't know everything? I know what SCM is, you condescending ass. I believe you, but there are some here who don't know, and the message is for everybody. And I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 05:15:17PM +, Eric wrote: On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:46:22 -0700, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: Why do people feel insulted when it is suggested that they don't know everything? I know what SCM is, you condescending ass. I believe you, but there are some

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Steve Havelka
On 12/15/2012 03:52 AM, Jan Danielsson wrote: On 12/15/12 05:26, Joe Mistachkin wrote: My opinion is that backward compatibility should be retained because various people, including several that may not be involved in this discussion, have existing scripts and other automation that relies upon

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Chad Perrin
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 08:26:33PM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: My opinion is that backward compatibility should be retained because various people, including several that may not be involved in this discussion, have existing scripts and other automation that relies upon the current behavior.

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 03:03:26AM -0800, Joe Mistachkin wrote: j. v. d. hoff wrote: POLS comes again to mind. The Principle of Least Surprise is not static. Changing the current behavior would be a huge (and potentially unpleasant) surprise for those who are very actively using

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Joe Mistachkin
Chad Perrin wrote: If you are not ready for changes in default behavior, don't upgrade to the next major version number. There is no good argument for software defaults to be set in stone for all time. Just use reasonable caution when releasing changes to default behavior. That is

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/16/12 00:36, Joe Mistachkin wrote: [---] 2. [---] On the other hand, if the mv and rm commands were to perform their file system actions prior to commit, would revert need to bring the previous files back to life? That does not make sense. Why not? $ fossil rm

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Joe Mistachkin
Jan Danielsson wrote: First, I feel you're inventing problems to make arguments in order to exclude features which address real world issues. (A little like the script issue brought up earlier). Straw man argument. Five yard penalty, still first down. Second (slightly off-topic),

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Steve Havelka
On 12/15/2012 06:28 PM, Joe Mistachkin wrote: Jan Danielsson wrote: First, I feel you're inventing problems to make arguments in order to exclude features which address real world issues. (A little like the script issue brought up earlier). Straw man argument. Five yard penalty, still

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-15 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/16/12 03:28, Joe Mistachkin wrote: First, I feel you're inventing problems to make arguments in order to exclude features which address real world issues. (A little like the script issue brought up earlier). Straw man argument. Five yard penalty, still first down. Still, I think

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/14/12 00:23, Richard Hipp wrote: But, should there be an opt-in option to also make the disk changes? Yes -- definitely. -- Kind regards, Jan Danielsson ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/14/12 00:56, Nolan Darilek wrote: Who would have guessed that something as simple as having rm remove the file from disk would prompt opponents to: * claim that I want Fossil to be like Git. * Call me lazy. * Insult my intelligence by claiming that I don't know what a VCS is or

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Gour
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:55:50 +0100 Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote: I must say, I'm not quite as fond of the fossil community as I once was. I have no interest in being insulted further. That's pity that immature people are chasing away older members. :-( Sincerely, Gour

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Pierpaolo Bernardi
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: So Altu and Eric (and also Joe Mistachkin on a back-channel) have pretty much convinced me at this point to keep the current behavior of fossil rm and fossil mv. I'm happy to read this. Thank you. I had refrained to chime

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread David Given
Richard Hipp wrote: [...] But, should there be an opt-in option to also make the disk changes? Perhaps fossil rm abc.txt just removes abc.txt from configuration management, but fossil rm -f abc.txt also removes it from disk? Yes, please. (Particularly with fossil mv; refactoring large numbers

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Chad Perrin
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:08:04PM +, Eric wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In order to continue the debate: In my work flow, I do rm or mv in file system as and when needed. I do fossil rm or fossil mv only when reviewing my changes

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Chad Perrin
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 05:04:52PM -0700, Matt Welland wrote: This is the classical divide between pragmatists (I want to get my job with with minimal pain so I can go home a play ball with my son) versus the idealists (source code management means doing x, y and z and no more and no less

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Nolan Darilek
Here's a thought: Let's remove the rm alias and make it just fossil remove. That will eliminate all my objections. When I issue a rm, whether at my shell, or in hg, git, svn, everywhere else but CVS apparently, which is the reason for establishing this expectation, it behaves a certain way.

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Matt Welland
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 05:04:52PM -0700, Matt Welland wrote: This is the classical divide between pragmatists (I want to get my job with with minimal pain so I can go home a play ball with my son) versus the

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Martin Gagnon
Le 2012-12-14 12:50, Matt Welland a écrit : On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net mailto:c...@apotheon.net wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 05:04:52PM -0700, Matt Welland wrote: This is the classical divide between pragmatists (I want to get my job

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Eric
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:10:44 -0700, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: Well, I had to pick one message to answer Aaargh! (there should be more as) 1) Telling the operating system to delete a file from disk and telling the VCS that a file which is in the

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/15/12 01:06, Eric wrote: [---] 4) I am not criticizing people, merely what they say. I see evidence that they don't get where I'm coming from because they have only an incomplete idea of what this is all about. 5) SCM stands for Software Configuration Management which is not the same

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:06:02AM +, Eric wrote: 1) Telling the operating system to delete a file from disk and telling the VCS that a file which is in the parent commit should not be in the next are two very different actions and I think they should be kept separate. I'm perfectly

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Chad Perrin
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 08:46:22PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:06:02AM +, Eric wrote: 1) Telling the operating system to delete a file from disk and telling the VCS that a file which is in the parent commit should not be in the next are two very different

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-14 Thread Joe Mistachkin
My opinion is that backward compatibility should be retained because various people, including several that may not be involved in this discussion, have existing scripts and other automation that relies upon the current behavior. Whether the current behavior being ideal or not is an entirely

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 08:16:48 +0100, Gour g...@atmarama.net wrote: On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 23:42:29 -0300 Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, I still think that the intention is to destroy what Fossil has of unique to offer to be able to say that Git or Mercurial it's the same and

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:58:29 +0100, Gour g...@atmarama.net wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:49:08 -0300 Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: Can you please killfile me and leave me alone? That's not the point 'cause your comments are not polite and disturbing to other Fossil users as you

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Mike Meyer
On 12/12/12, Themba Fletcher themba.fletc...@gmail.com wrote: to alias 'fossil rm' to 'fossil rm -f'. That is a disaster waiting to happen. If the user in question forgets that they've done that, and then runs a series of commands from someone who *didn't* do that (either cut-n-paste from an

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. van den hoff
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:09:46 +0100, Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/13/12 05:07, Carson Chittom wrote: Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info writes: If we're talking about adding git to the name because of this whole rm thing, we might as well consider mercurial as a

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/13/12 05:01, Themba Fletcher wrote: What's next? Replacing SQLite with individual files? Absolutely not, and statements like this do more harm than good because they willfully disregard the point of what is being expressed. The point is not to be alarmist and extreme, as statements like

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Marcelo
2012/12/13 Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com Richie Adler (that is, myself, not Themba Fletcher) wrote: What's next? Replacing SQLite with individual files? Absolutely not, and statements like this do more harm than good because they willfully disregard the point of what is

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Nolan Darilek
On 12/13/2012 08:40 AM, Marcelo wrote: They want the good things about fossil but they want to keep working as if it were Git. I say, if they like Git so much, eat the crow that comes with it. And that doesn't even make sense, either. If I wanted Git, then I'd use Git, full stop. It's

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Gour
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 08:54:25 -0600 Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info wrote: Making this sort of argument damages the cause because it puts those of us advocating for a thing in a position we aren't necessarily in, so it makes us want to just let the point go. Fortunately, Richard is

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Richard Hipp
FWIW, I am following this thread with great interest. I think I understand the various points of view. I think most everybody brings up good points, and I encourage this kind of discussion. My current leanings are to change rm and mv as follows: (1) fossil rm xyx.txt will remove the file

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Gour
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:38:36 -0500 Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: (1) fossil rm xyx.txt will remove the file xyz.txt from disk if and only if an exact copy of xyz.txt exists under control. If xyz.txt has been modified or if xyz.txt has never been checked in (and the fossil rm is simply

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Ramon Ribó
(1) fossil rm xyx.txt will remove the file xyz.txt from disk if and only if an exact copy of xyz.txt exists under control. If xyz.txt has been modified or if xyz.txt has never been checked in (and the fossil rm is simply to reverse a prior fossil add) then xyz.txt is unchanged. Either way,

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Marcelo
2012/12/13 Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info On 12/13/2012 08:40 AM, Marcelo wrote: They want the good things about fossil but they want to keep working as if it were Git. I say, if they like Git so much, eat the crow that comes with it. And that doesn't even make sense, either. If I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Nolan Darilek
On 12/13/2012 11:02 AM, Marcelo wrote: You may laugh at the image of the cackling, moustache twirling villain -- after all, I've used the image myself in hyperbole. But what you're deliberate neglecting is that rebase *has been requested already*, even when it goes against all what Fossil

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. van den hoff
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:02:25 +0100, Marcelo richiead...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/12/13 Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info On 12/13/2012 08:40 AM, Marcelo wrote: They want the good things about fossil but they want to keep working as if it were Git. I say, if they like Git so much, eat the

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Juanma Barranquero
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info wrote: You don't get to reframe this discussion by putting everyone who asks for a change in the same category. Sorry, I won't let you do that. Me asking for rm behavior today does not mean I'll ask for rebase tomorrow, nor

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Altu Faltu
/13/12 09:08 PM To: Fossil SCM user's discussion Subject: Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing? FWIW, I am following this thread with great interest. I think I understand the various points of view. I think most everybody brings up good points, and I encourage this kind

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Steve Havelka
On 12/13/2012 07:38 AM, Richard Hipp wrote: FWIW, I am following this thread with great interest. I think I understand the various points of view. I think most everybody brings up good points, and I encourage this kind of discussion. My current leanings are to change rm and mv as follows:

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Eric
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In order to continue the debate: In my work flow, I do rm or mv in file system as and when needed. I do fossil rm or fossil mv only when reviewing my changes before commit. Well, yes, that is the way I do it too. I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Richard Hipp
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Eric e...@deptj.eu wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In order to continue the debate: In my work flow, I do rm or mv in file system as and when needed. I do fossil rm or fossil mv only when reviewing my

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 00:08:04 +0100, Eric e...@deptj.eu wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In order to continue the debate: In my work flow, I do rm or mv in file system as and when needed. I do fossil rm or fossil mv only when reviewing my

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Joan Picanyol i Puig
* Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org [20121213 16:37]: My current leanings are to change rm and mv as follows: [...] It seems to me that the behaviors above are the most intuitive and provide developers with the least amount of surprise. I agree. Regarding your later post, I fail to see how

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 00:23:12 +0100, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Eric e...@deptj.eu wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In order to continue the debate: In my work flow, I do rm or mv in file system as and

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Nolan Darilek
Who would have guessed that something as simple as having rm remove the file from disk would prompt opponents to: * claim that I want Fossil to be like Git. * Call me lazy. * Insult my intelligence by claiming that I don't know what a VCS is or should do. Done with this thread. Keep it

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Matt Welland
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:48 PM, j. v. d. hoff veedeeh...@googlemail.comwrote: On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 00:23:12 +0100, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Eric e...@deptj.eu wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:55:55 -0500, Altu Faltu altufa...@mail.com wrote: In

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-13 Thread Ramon Ribó
Well, yes, that is the way I do it too. I suspect that there are some who do not review their changes before commit, and that many of those commit way too often, essentially treating their VCS as a backup method. This of course leads to junk, non-functional checkins, followed by an unhealthy

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Baruch Burstein
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Jan Danielsson jan.m.daniels...@gmail.comwrote: I'm willing to bet that the number of times people will type fossil mv/rm X Y and not actually want to mv/rm X to Y just afterwards is vanishingly small. More to the point; let's reverse your -s-flag; I.e.:

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Ramon Ribó
As I understand it, fossil currently deletes one file from disk when doing and update if this file has been removed by another user. For me, it is incoherent that fossil does not do the same on commit. Of course, only for the case that there is a copy of the file in the previous version and

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Martin Gagnon
Le 2012-12-12 06:28, Ramon Ribó a écrit : As I understand it, fossil currently deletes one file from disk when doing and update if this file has been removed by another user. For me, it is incoherent that fossil does not do the same on commit. Of course, only for the case that there is a

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Richie Adler
Chad Perrin decía, en el mensaje Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing? del Miércoles, 12 de Diciembre de 2012 18:22:53: I rather suspect that, if Fossil continues to grow in usage over time, and if it fails to implement sane defaults and options like what you just

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Themba Fletcher
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: If that happens, please make sure to include git in the new name. That's what all the naysayers are trying to convert Fossil into, anyway. +1 :) ___ fossil-users mailing list

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Chad Perrin
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 03:07:51PM -0800, Themba Fletcher wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: If that happens, please make sure to include git in the new name. That's what all the naysayers are trying to convert Fossil into, anyway. +1 :)

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Juanma Barranquero
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: Screw that. Git makes exactly the kind of UI mistakes I'm talking about eliminating. Well, one thing that I don't know whether to call UI mistake, but it is certainly an inconvenience, is that to obtain accurate status

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Themba Fletcher
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 03:07:51PM -0800, Themba Fletcher wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: If that happens, please make sure to include git in the new name. That's what all

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Nolan Darilek
If we're talking about adding git to the name because of this whole rm thing, we might as well consider mercurial as a candidate too. Mercurial behaves sensibly and removes the file automatically on rm. Naysayers aren't trying to make Fossil Git, we're just trying to make it do what most other

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Nolan Darilek
On 12/12/2012 08:42 PM, Richie Adler wrote: What's next? Replacing SQLite with individual files? Absolutely not, and statements like this do more harm than good because they willfully disregard the point of what is being expressed. The point is not to be alarmist and extreme, as statements

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Gour
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 23:42:29 -0300 Richie Adler richiead...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, I still think that the intention is to destroy what Fossil has of unique to offer to be able to say that Git or Mercurial it's the same and they should be preferred to Fossil. What's next? Replacing SQLite

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-12 Thread Carson Chittom
Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info writes: If we're talking about adding git to the name because of this whole rm thing, we might as well consider mercurial as a candidate too. Mercurial behaves sensibly and removes the file automatically on rm. Naysayers aren't trying to make Fossil Git,

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-11 Thread Themba Fletcher
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I'm just checking back in after a lengthy absence. On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info wrote: Weighing in on this, finally: It's interesting to me that everyone speculates that this *might* break things for some

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-11 Thread K
I agree with Themba. I like that Fossil is a separate repo 'world' from my files. If this boundary is to be pierced, I think it should require passing in some kind of explicit switch to cause it. eg., ./fossil -s rm ..., s in this example representing sync. I would like some friendly tip text

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-11 Thread Matt Welland
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:08 PM, K k...@lightpowered.org wrote: I agree with Themba. I like that Fossil is a separate repo 'world' from my files. If this boundary is to be pierced, I think it should require passing in some kind of explicit switch to cause it. eg., ./fossil -s rm ..., s in

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-11 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:50:06 +0100, Themba Fletcher themba.fletc...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I'm just checking back in after a lengthy absence. On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Nolan Darilek no...@thewordnerd.info wrote: Weighing in on this, finally: It's

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-12-11 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/11/12 23:08, K wrote: I agree with Themba. I like that Fossil is a separate repo 'world' from my files. If this boundary is to be pierced, I think it should require passing in some kind of explicit switch to cause it. eg., ./fossil -s rm ..., s in this example representing sync. I

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-30 Thread Chad Perrin
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 06:10:00PM +0100, j. van den hoff wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:48:00 +0100, James Turner I'd suggest -f like cvs rm uses. obviously everybody seems to have his/her own preference how to handle this. so only a fraction of users will be happy in the end it seems. --

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-30 Thread j. v. d. hoff
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:30:13 +0100, Chad Perrin c...@apotheon.net wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 06:10:00PM +0100, j. van den hoff wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:48:00 +0100, James Turner I'd suggest -f like cvs rm uses. obviously everybody seems to have his/her own preference how to handle

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-30 Thread Nolan Darilek
Weighing in on this, finally: It's interesting to me that everyone speculates that this *might* break things for some hypothetical person, and *might* bite someone, but has anyone here ever been bitten by it? And is it not something that fossil revert could undo? I don't mind avoiding the

[fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread j. van den hoff
I already stumbled a couple of times over the fact that `fossil rm' and `fossil mv' only act on the repository but not on the check out, i.e. I always have to issue two commands in order to actually remove a file from the (future of) the project. obviously this is different from other VCSs

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread Richard Hipp
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:32 AM, j. van den hoff veedeeh...@googlemail.comwrote: I already stumbled a couple of times over the fact that `fossil rm' and `fossil mv' only act on the repository but not on the check out, i.e. I always have to issue two commands in order to actually remove a

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread j. van den hoff
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:00:29 +0100, Remigiusz Modrzejewski l...@maxnet.org.pl wrote: On Nov 20, 2012, at 14:45 , Richard Hipp wrote: CVS did not couple the actions, and I copied CVS in this regard. I agree with you now, that coupling them is the right thing to do. But I fear to

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread Matt Welland
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:32 AM, j. van den hoff veedeeh...@googlemail.com wrote: I already stumbled a couple of times over the fact that `fossil rm' and `fossil mv' only act on the repository but not on the check out,

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread David Given
Richard Hipp wrote: [...] CVS did not couple the actions, and I copied CVS in this regard. I agree with you now, that coupling them is the right thing to do. But I fear to change it because that might cause problems for existing scripts. Add a -p for physical option to actually change the

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread James Turner
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:39:06PM +, David Given wrote: Richard Hipp wrote: [...] CVS did not couple the actions, and I copied CVS in this regard. I agree with you now, that coupling them is the right thing to do. But I fear to change it because that might cause problems for

Re: [fossil-users] why does `fossil rm' not do the real thing?

2012-11-20 Thread j. van den hoff
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:48:00 +0100, James Turner ja...@calminferno.net wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:39:06PM +, David Given wrote: Richard Hipp wrote: [...] CVS did not couple the actions, and I copied CVS in this regard. I agree with you now, that coupling them is the right thing