Re: [Foundation-l] Analysis of statistics
Henning Schlottmann wrote: John Vandenberg wrote: Young people have the most to gain from participating, because the skills that they acquire on wikimedia will stay with them, helping them in their many years to come. And what does Wikipedia get from those young people? We don't have the Encyclopedic articles? man power to nanny them or teach them academic writing. We all are We actually do - isn't that what most people have been doing all these years? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Analysis of statistics
This is precisely one of the problems that is holding us back. Individual prejudices against younger individuals may have scared younger users away from the project. When I started at Wikipedia, I noticed several approaches from users: - Some were initially unaware of my age and were surprised to learn it. - Of those who knew my age, some treated me as they would treat any other user. - Others chose to treat me as they might treat their own children, trying to provide guidance of a parental nature that was sometimes appreciated but usually was not. - Some people who intially respected me changed their minds once they discovered my age. Rather than judge me based on intellect and quality of my contributions, or even my behavior record (which was, I will admit, spotty, but better than many seasoned middle-aged Wikipedians), they found themselves unable to look past the relatively small number of years I'd been alive. - A few who initially had little respect for me seemed to change their minds once they discovered my age. All in all, I feel that we should basically treat all users the same, regardless of age. If a 15 year old makes good contributions to an article on particle physics but they need a little fixing up, it should be treated the same way as if a 30 year old made the same contribution - fix it. If they are making a mess of physics articles, do the same thing you'd do if a 30 year old were to make a mess of physics articles. Give them a warning. I recognize that younger users often have a greater propensity for poor or uncivil behavior onwiki; some admins may feel like giving them extra chances due to their age. I don't recommend against this but I don't think it should be necessary. If there is anything teenagers crave, it is to be treated like adults. In my experience, as someone who will only stop being a teenager finally in a few days on 18 August, being treated like an adult encourages a young person to act more mature. In conclusion, I think it's quite sad that Henning has displayed such a negative attitude towards young people. There are a lot of us on the projects, you might be surprised to see all the contributions we have made and will continue to make as we grow up with Wikimedia. Mark On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Henning Schlottmannh.schlottm...@gmx.net wrote: John Vandenberg wrote: On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Henning Schlottmannh.schlottm...@gmx.net wrote: And if there are kids with knowledge and understanding on these or other topics, they will be fascinated by Wikipedia and find the project on their own. We don't need to recruit these prodigy childs. Contributors, both young and old, do not need to be interested in the topic they contribute to - they need to see the value of the skills that they acquire in the process. And we can help them learn about the benefits. Well it certainly helps if you have a deeper understanding about the topics you cover. And Wikipedia once was about people who have certain knowledge and enjoy to share it with the world. It was originally not about recruiting people to do research into topics they would never have researched without Wikipedia. On wikimedia, bilingual young people can improve their mastery of second languages by translating articles into different languages. Oh yeah - that is how most translations look like. A bilingual kid trying to improve their mastery of a foreign language. Without even understanding the topic of the text he or she is translating. We already have too many of those translations. On wikimedia, young people learn how to properly reference an article, which will help them as they progress in their education. Originally Wikipedia was about People, who could already write academic papers and did not need tutoring or learning those abilities on Wikipedia for their future life. Young people have the most to gain from participating, because the skills that they acquire on wikimedia will stay with them, helping them in their many years to come. And what does Wikipedia get from those young people? We don't have the man power to nanny them or teach them academic writing. We all are authors, first and foremost. I'm not going to change the diapers of any promising young people who would like to make their first attempts of focused writing on Wikipedia. Ciao Henning ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Meadow Mari Wikipedia
LOL! 2009/7/28 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com And for one grope I had introduced Wikipedia myself. Sounds like a bargain. But I think we have laws about conduct in the workplace here in the UK that may preclude this business model, unfortunately. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jon Harald Søby http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Signpost interviews with WMF board candidates
The Wikipedia Signpost on en-wiki put a series of questions to the board candidates, and their answers may be of interest to the people on this list who don't normally read the Signpost. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-07-27/Board_elections#Candidate_interviews Translators may (or may not) be interested in translating these interviews, as I think the questions and answers have a decent a ratio of substance to flamebait compared to some of the questions on meta. Cheers, Sage Ross (User:Ragesoss) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 I am getting timeouts on this server. Does any have copy of their statement for me? Mathias ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
2009/7/28 Mathias Schindler mathias.schind...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 I am getting timeouts on this server. Does any have copy of their statement for me? Works for me. That link isn't to a statement, it's an article in the British Journal of Photography. I can't find a formal statement anywhere, the article has some quotes from their spokesman. I'm reluctant to copy large extracts from an article about copyright infringement, so I suggest you keep refreshing! ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Mathias Schindler mathias.schind...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 I am getting timeouts on this server. Does any have copy of their statement for me? Mathias It times out for me as well. And for Google Translate. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
2009/7/28 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Mathias Schindler mathias.schind...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 I am getting timeouts on this server. Does any have copy of their statement for me? Mathias It times out for me as well. And for Google Translate. It's timing out for me too now. It was definitely working before - I did a hard refresh after Mathias said it was down. Hopefully it will come back soon. There wasn't really anything new there, it was just being said by the BAPLA rather than NPG. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
Hello, A mirror can be found here: http://images.forgotten-beauty.com/NPG%20and%20BAPLA.txt Best regards, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies sides with NPG
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Mathias Schindler mathias.schind...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=866109 I am getting timeouts on this server. Does any have copy of their statement for me? Mathias ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l NPG and BAPLA at war with Wikipedia The British Association of Picture Libraries and Agencies has waded into a tense showdown between the National Portrait Gallery and Wikipedia, which erupted after thousands of NPG images were uploaded onto the social encyclopedia. In March 2009, more than 3000 high-resolution files were taken from the National Portrait Gallery website and published on Wikipedia without the gallery's permission. The National Portrait Gallery released a statement, describing itself as 'very concerned that potential loss of licensing income from the high-resolution files threatens its ability to reinvest in its digitisation programme and so make further images available. It is one of the Gallery's primary purposes to make as much of the Collection available as possible for the public to view.' Over the past five years, the National Portrait Gallery has spent £1m on digitising its collection of images, with 60,000 already available online in low-resolution. 'Wikipedia has not responded to our requests to discuss the issue and so the National Portrait Gallery has been obliged to issue a lawyer's letter,' the NPG's statement continues. 'The Gallery remains willing to enter into a dialogue with Wikipedia.' BAPLA has thrown its support behind the National Portrait Gallery, with executive director Simon Cliffe adding that the issue was a very important one for the organisation's members. 'We understand that other people who have had similar experiences with Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons have been told that they regard all images of out-of-copyright material as public domain, and dispute there is any copyright in a copy of an original work,' he says. 'This is contrary to UK law. The copying of original works for commercial use requires skill and expertise and has a financial cost to the producer. The 1988 CDPA recognises this.' He continued: 'If owners of out-of-copyright material are not going to have the derivative works they have created protected, which will result in anyone being able to use them for free, they will cease to invest in the digitisation of works, and everyone will be the poorer. Protection of derivative works is not about restriction of access to those works, it is simply about protecting the works from commercial exploitation by those who have not invested in the creation of the new work. As we can see from the NPG case, they do not want to restrict access to the public, but to assert the protection the law provides for their commercial interests. In this way they can raise more funds to invest in making even more material available.' Jay Walsh, head of communications for the Wikimedia Foundation, which owns Wikipedia, issued a statement on 14 July calling the National Portrait Gallery's action unfortunate. 'The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free licence or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally,' he says. 'To that end, we have very productive working relationships with a number of galleries, archives, museums and libraries around the world, who join with us to make their educational materials available to the public. 'The Wikimedia Foundation does not control user behavior, nor have we reviewed every action taken by that user. Nonetheless, it is our general understanding that the user in question has behaved in accordance with our mission, with the general goal of making public domain materials available via our Wikimedia Commons project, and in accordance with applicable law.' ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
