On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
> I still see it as a matter of outlook when you say, "WMF is a U.S. nonprofit
> and must (at minimum) operate under the U.S. rules", so is a German, French
> or a Swiss nonprofit, they must operate under the rules of their own
> country.
I belie
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Michael Snow wrote:
> On 8/28/2011 9:00 PM, Victor Vasiliev wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Nathan wrote:
>>> Which activities are these?
>> Copyright and internet law lobbying.
> This is incorrect.
Michael,
Have you seen the draft Chapters Grant Agre
On 8/28/2011 9:00 PM, Victor Vasiliev wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Nathan wrote:
>> Which activities are these?
> Copyright and internet law lobbying.
This is incorrect. The foundation can engage in lobbying under US
regulations if it wishes. Restrictions on lobbying by nonprofits ar
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Nathan wrote:
> Which activities are these?
Copyright and internet law lobbying.
--vvv
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On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:15 PM, John Vandenberg wrote:
>
> You're strawman is alive.
>
> If the chapters are funded by the WMF, non-US chapters need to abide by US
> law.
>
> If all of the fundraising money goes to the WMF, who then distributes
> it to chapters via grants, all chapters must com
Few last points before I duck out of this conversation for awhile...
There are international accounting standards (see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Accounting_Standards_Board). It's
not necessary that all organizations follow them to the letter, obviously,
because not all nations (i
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike
>>
>> I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
>> chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
>> restrictions, whether those
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Nathan wrote:
> If the WMF plans for grants to be the interim method of funding for
> developing chapters (aside from that raised independently by the chapters
> themselves) then I expect that they will tweak the process to account for
> the specific issues involve
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
> > chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
> > restrictions, whether
In line replies to Nathan.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Nathan wrote:
> Several points in reply to Theo:
>
> 1) You don't need to argue the value of having chapters around the world.
> No
> one debating that. It's accepted that effective global outreach requires
> effective local partners, a
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Florence Devouard wrote:
> On 8/29/11 1:45 AM, Nathan wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 August 2011 00:29, Nathan wrote:
> >>
> >>> Which other criteria are so onerous that folks are reacting
> >>> like the letter in
On 08/28/11 4:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 29 August 2011 00:29, Nathan wrote:
>> Which other criteria are so onerous that folks are reacting
>> like the letter indicts the entire system of chapters?
> Because that's its effect: "The entire system of chapters, except
> WMDE, is hereby recentr
On 08/28/11 4:38 PM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>> On 08/28/11 12:17 PM, Nathan wrote:
>>> More to the point, according to [1] nearly 80% of the total
>>> fundraising take was from North America. Participation by chapters in
>>> the fundraiser is not, i
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
> Hi Mike
>
> I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
> chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
> restrictions, whether those restriction are lax or stringent in comparison
> is a m
On 8/29/11 1:45 AM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>
>> On 29 August 2011 00:29, Nathan wrote:
>>
>>> Which other criteria are so onerous that folks are reacting
>>> like the letter indicts the entire system of chapters?
>>
>>
>> Because that's its effect:
Hi Mike
I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
restrictions, whether those restriction are lax or stringent in comparison
is a matter of opinion but they do exist, is my point. I believe the
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 29 August 2011 00:29, Nathan wrote:
>
> > Which other criteria are so onerous that folks are reacting
> > like the letter indicts the entire system of chapters?
>
>
> Because that's its effect: "The entire system of chapters, except
> WM
On 08/28/11 2:47 PM, Mike Godwin wrote:
> Theo writes:
>> Second, it might be some form of elitist outlook if you think accountability
>> standards for US Non-profits are more transparent and fiscally responsible
>> than say somewhere in EU like Germany, France or the Switzerland. I assure
>> you,
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
> On 08/28/11 12:17 PM, Nathan wrote:
> > More to the point, according to [1] nearly 80% of the total
> > fundraising take was from North America. Participation by chapters in
> > the fundraiser is not, in anyway, an alternative to concentrati
On 29 August 2011 00:29, Nathan wrote:
> Which other criteria are so onerous that folks are reacting
> like the letter indicts the entire system of chapters?
Because that's its effect: "The entire system of chapters, except
WMDE, is hereby recentralised. Thanks for your hard work, everyone!"
Several points in reply to Theo:
1) You don't need to argue the value of having chapters around the world. No
one debating that. It's accepted that effective global outreach requires
effective local partners, and that local chapters are the way to achieve the
best results. I think its generally we
On 28.08.2011 23:47, Mike Godwin wrote:
> Theo writes:
>
>> Second, it might be some form of elitist outlook if you think accountability
>> standards for US Non-profits are more transparent and fiscally responsible
>> than say somewhere in EU like Germany, France or the Switzerland. I assure
>> you
On 28 August 2011 21:56, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>> *That depends on what you mean by "affected", really. I don't think it
>> will be just WMDE participating in the fundraiser. The WMF has said that it
>> intends to abide by existing agreements, which several chapters had signed
>> before Wikimania.
It was interesting to hear from Switzerland, here in the UK things are very
different. One difference between the UK model and the US/Swiss model is
that the tax largely accrues to the charity not to the donor. Another
feature of UK charity giving is that it is heavily skewed towards legacies,
but
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Risker wrote:
> Bearing that in mind, one of the concerns that came to my mind even then was
> that many of them did not make it explicitly clear that XX percent of the
> donation was going to and independent local chapter. There was also a
> significant lack of fi
Theo writes:
> Second, it might be some form of elitist outlook if you think accountability
> standards for US Non-profits are more transparent and fiscally responsible
> than say somewhere in EU like Germany, France or the Switzerland. I assure
> you, they are existent, not-minimal and more restr
On 08/28/11 12:17 PM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
>> Hi Risker
>>
>> I would like to ask your opinion on WMF's stewardship of the money. The
>> Foundation has fulfilled its legal obligation as a non-profit but as a
>> community member from english wikipedia,
2011/8/28 Delphine Ménard
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Risker wrote:
>
> > See now, this is the kind of thinking that raises a lot of questions
> about
> > chapters receiving the very large amounts of money that many got the last
> > time around. In the "real" world, charities determine w
>
> *That depends on what you mean by "affected", really. I don't think it
> will be just WMDE participating in the fundraiser. The WMF has said that it
> intends to abide by existing agreements, which several chapters had signed
> before Wikimania.
> *
AFAIK, yes. Only WMDE will run fundraising.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:47 AM, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
> > Hi Risker
> >
> > I would like to ask your opinion on WMF's stewardship of the money. The
> > Foundation has fulfilled its legal obligation as a non-profit but as a
> > community member from
On 28.08.2011 21:00, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
>> This is incorrect because to receive tax exemption a person doesn't need
>> to have a receipt.
>>
>> At least for Switzerland the donor can only indicate to have donate an
>> amount to one national cha
On 28.08.2011 21:00, Nathan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
>> This is incorrect because to receive tax exemption a person doesn't need
>> to have a receipt.
>>
>> At least for Switzerland the donor can only indicate to have donate an
>> amount to one national cha
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
> Hi Risker
>
> I would like to ask your opinion on WMF's stewardship of the money. The
> Foundation has fulfilled its legal obligation as a non-profit but as a
> community member from english wikipedia, do you feel it has been accountable
> to yo
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
>
> This is incorrect because to receive tax exemption a person doesn't need
> to have a receipt.
>
> At least for Switzerland the donor can only indicate to have donate an
> amount to one national charitable association. A receipt is not
>
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:19:45PM +0100, Andrew Gray wrote:
> On 26 August 2011 02:15, David Goodman wrote:
>
> > make it plainer, that people who find ? Wikipedia articles appropriate
> > for advocating their religious beliefs may use the content for that
> > purpose, to that the WMF should fin
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 11:40:24PM +0100, Andrew Gray wrote:
> On 26 August 2011 12:35, Kim Bruning wrote:
>
> >> This implies that the proposed image hiding feature is a less repressive
> >> form of censorship. I do not see the proposed feature as censorship - all
> >> the images remain on the s
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Risker wrote:
> See now, this is the kind of thinking that raises a lot of questions about
> chapters receiving the very large amounts of money that many got the last
> time around. In the "real" world, charities determine what their objectives
> are for the year
On 28 August 2011 18:07, David Gerard wrote:
> On 28 August 2011 14:40, Nathan wrote:
>
>> Has it been worked out how many chapters will be affected by this
>> change?
>
>
> All except WMDE.
That depends on what you mean by "affected", really. I don't think it
will be just WMDE participating in
On 28 August 2011 14:40, Nathan wrote:
> Has it been worked out how many chapters will be affected by this
> change?
All except WMDE.
- d.
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Hi Risker
I would like to ask your opinion on WMF's stewardship of the money. The
Foundation has fulfilled its legal obligation as a non-profit but as a
community member from english wikipedia, do you feel it has been accountable
to you or spent it on worthwhile activities for the community? the r
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 16:46, Risker wrote:
> On 28 August 2011 04:47, rupert THURNER wrote:
>
>> 2011/8/28 Delphine Ménard :
>> > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Ray Saintonge
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> If the question is one of "minimum standards of accountability" the
>> >> WMF's first obligatio
On 28.08.2011 16:46, Risker wrote:
> On 28 August 2011 04:47, rupert THURNER wrote:
>
>> 2011/8/28 Delphine Ménard:
>>
>> +1.
>> in switzerland we feel that a good target is to get 1 CHF per user and
>> year as donation. not having a better means of calculating the users,
>> we took 10% of the wor
On 28 August 2011 04:47, rupert THURNER wrote:
> 2011/8/28 Delphine Ménard :
> > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Ray Saintonge
> wrote:
> >
> >> If the question is one of "minimum standards of accountability" the
> >> WMF's first obligation would be to publish the standards which it
> >> requi
Has it been worked out how many chapters will be affected by this
change? Of those that will be excluded this year (if any decisions on
that have been made or are anticipated), how many can expect to meet
the requirements for participation next year? Figuring this out may
have been part of the Boar
2011/8/24 Kirill Lokshin :
> Stop this thread at once! It's gotten entirely too silly!
Maybe, but it does not walk. So that bars it from any kind of claim on
tax return from the [[Ministry of Silly Walks]].
Delphine
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2011/8/28 Delphine Ménard :
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>> If the question is one of "minimum standards of accountability" the
>> WMF's first obligation would be to publish the standards which it
>> requires, presumably consistent with IFRS. Chapters incorporated wit
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