Re: [Foundation-l] Communicating effectively: Wikimedia needs clear language now

2012-02-19 Thread Chris Keating
I'd recommend George Orwell's essay on Politics and the English Language. It's one of the most persuasive arguments to use clear language I've read. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm We're a multi-lingual movement, and this makes clear English even more important. If something is

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
Jussi-ville writes: The policy, misused in the course of POV struggle, is a way of excluding information with interferes with presentation of a desired point of view. I think you are being way too generous. ... Let me repeat in more concise form. The policy was written to enable serious

Re: [Foundation-l] Communicating effectively: Wikimedia needs clear language now

2012-02-19 Thread Thierry Coudray
We're a multi-lingual movement, and this makes clear English even more important. If something is unclear to a native speaker, it's even more difficult for someone who has English as a second or third language. I confirm. Its quite difficult for a non fluent english speaker to be involved in

Re: [Foundation-l] Communicating effectively: Wikimedia needs clear language now

2012-02-19 Thread Tom Morris
On 19 February 2012 10:21, Thierry Coudray thierry.coud...@wikimedia.fr wrote: We're a multi-lingual movement, and this makes clear English even more important. If something is unclear to a native speaker, it's even more difficult for someone who has English as a second or third language. I

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Christie
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 4:44 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: I think the article in The Chronicle of Higher Education is a must-read. Here you have a researcher who actually took pains to learn what the rules to editing Wikipedia are (including No Original Research), and who,

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Fred Bauder
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 4:44 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: I think the article in The Chronicle of Higher Education is a must-read. Here you have a researcher who actually took pains to learn what the rules to editing Wikipedia are (including No Original Research), and who,

Re: [Foundation-l] EFE: Indigenous languages entering Wikipedia

2012-02-19 Thread Osmar Valdebenito
Yes, you are right! I forgot to mention you guys, so sorry! I'll punish myself :P El 18-02-2012 22:31, Mateus Nobre mateus.no...@live.co.uk escribió: Wikimedia Brasil also have a project of indigenous language, the nheengatu project. http://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nheengattu

Re: [Foundation-l] Communicating effectively: Wikimedia needs clear language now

2012-02-19 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 19/02/2012 5:21 AM, Thierry Coudray wrote: Thierry who still not have found a good translation in French for accountability :) You probably want /imputabilité/ :-) -- Coren / Marc ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Sarah
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-ville writes: The policy, misused in the course of POV struggle, is a way of excluding information with interferes with presentation of a desired point of view. ... I think the article in The Chronicle of Higher

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-ville writes: The policy, misused in the course of POV struggle, is a way of excluding information with interferes with presentation of a desired point of view. I think you are being way too generous. ... Let me

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps the policies can be improved, but they are written to stop bad editing rather than to encourage good editing.  I don't think that can be changed.  It's impossible to legislate good judgement, and it's judgement

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps the policies can be improved, but they are written to stop bad editing rather than to encourage good editing.  I don't think that can be changed.  It's impossible to legislate good judgement, and it's

Re: [Foundation-l] Communicating effectively: Wikimedia needs clear language now

2012-02-19 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Dear Tom, I couldn't agree more. And I remember that I understand Amir's blog entries quite well, in sharp opposition to some other WMF technical guys' blog entries... A copy-editor with an eye for newbies, non techies, non native speakers of English etc. would be a great idea. Kind regards

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at MeatballWiki know? Why should they care? I don't know if this has already been mentioned somewhere: http://googlepolicyeurope.blogspot.com/2012/02/our-thoughts-on-right-to-be-forgotten.html It's a very cautious comment I think. Nemo

Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:39 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind, before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Delirium
On 2/19/12 4:12 PM, Sarah wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Mike Godwinmnemo...@gmail.com wrote: I think the article in The Chronicle of Higher Education is a must-read. Here you have a researcher who actually took pains to learn what the rules to editing Wikipedia are (including No

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Delirium
On 2/19/12 2:29 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: The key problem here is that WP:UNDUE was expressly written to address the problem of genuine ongoing controversies, and fringe views. In this case there is no ongoing controversy, but the use of the policy has for long been used to remove new

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Delirium delir...@hackish.org wrote: On 2/19/12 4:12 PM, Sarah wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Mike Godwinmnemo...@gmail.com  wrote: I think the article in The Chronicle of Higher Education is a must-read. Here you have a researcher who actually took

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Delirium delir...@hackish.org wrote: On 2/19/12 2:29 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: The key problem here is that WP:UNDUE was expressly written to address the problem of genuine ongoing controversies, and fringe views. In this case there is no ongoing

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at MeatballWiki know? Why should they care? This is where it all started, http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToLeave -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Thomas Dalton
On 19 February 2012 18:06, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at MeatballWiki know? Why should they care? This is where it all started,

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps the policies can be improved, but they are written to stop bad editing rather than to encourage good editing.  I don't think that can be changed.  It's impossible to legislate good judgement, and it's judgement

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Fred Bauder
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps the policies can be improved, but they are written to stop bad editing rather than to encourage good editing.  I don't think that can be changed.  It's impossible to legislate good judgement, and it's

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Fred Bauder
On 19 February 2012 18:06, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at MeatballWiki know? Why should they care? This is where it all started,

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: On 19 February 2012 18:06, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Thomas Dalton
On 19 February 2012 20:13, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: How can we remove ten thousand comments and signatures using the users real name or well-known handle? With a bot (or AWB) going through the What Links Here list for your user page. People have done that before (although maybe

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 19/02/2012 4:25 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: With a bot (or AWB) going through the What Links Here list for your user page. People have done that before (although maybe not if they had ten thousand comments to change). Yes, and on enwp at least the one time I remember this having been

Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Right to be Forgotten

2012-02-19 Thread John Vandenberg
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: On 19 February 2012 18:06, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12: Do the people at

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia

2012-02-19 Thread Robin McCain
On 2/19/2012 8:19 AM, foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: Message: 4 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 12:12:09 -0300 From: Sarahslimvir...@gmail.com To:mnemo...@gmail.com, Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight'

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
Fred Bauder writes: I think it probably seems to climate change deniers that excluding political opinions from science-based articles on global warming is a violation of neutral point of view, and of basic fairness. That is just one example, but there are other similar situations. This

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Fred Bauder
Fred Bauder writes: I think it probably seems to climate change deniers that excluding political opinions from science-based articles on global warming is a violation of neutral point of view, and of basic fairness. That is just one example, but there are other similar situations. This

Re: [Foundation-l] EFE: Indigenous languages entering Wikipedia

2012-02-19 Thread Samuel Klein
This is a wonderful report. Thank you for sharing, Osmar! Do you know whether we have any official message of support from UNESCO that we can point to? Or one from a group that works with us and that is wholly dedicated to language preservation (like our friends at the Rosetta Project?) SJ

Re: [Foundation-l] EFE: Indigenous languages entering Wikipedia

2012-02-19 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, This sounds like a great initiative. I am sure that the language committee will aim to help you as much as possible. The language policy is designed to ensure that new projects have an optimal chance of success. There are a few things that we require from you. They are that you localise the