Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Richard Stallmanr...@gnu.org wrote: Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). Amazon was also the first significant provider of mainstream commercial music to offer a 100% DRM-free music store, and also the first (as far as I know) to offer a GNU/Linux client (albeit a non-libre client) for their music store. So their record contains significant strengths as well as significant weaknesses- certainly glaring weaknesses, but probably more strengths (from our perspective) than any other purveyor of commercial mainstream culture. This is not to say I'm rushing out to buy a Kindle; I really want one but haven't pulled the trigger exactly because of the DRM. But using Amazon affiliate codes to raise revenue for the Foundation is a world apart from endorsing Kindle's DRM. Luis ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:41:36 -0400 Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). And stupid patents ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Luis Villal...@tieguy.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Richard Stallmanr...@gnu.org wrote: Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). Amazon was also the first significant provider of mainstream commercial music to offer a 100% DRM-free music store, and also the first (as far as I know) to offer a GNU/Linux client (albeit a non-libre client) for their music store. So their record contains significant strengths as well as significant weaknesses- certainly glaring weaknesses, but probably more strengths (from our perspective) than any other purveyor of commercial mainstream culture. And I think this goes without saying, but it may bear repeating: because our goal is a desktop for average users as well as lovers of freedom, GNOME can't exist in a cultural vacuum. We should do everything we can to work against DRM, to support sources of Free culture, and to educate users about Free culture, DRM, and non-patent-encumbered media formats.[1] But we also have to make compromises sometimes, so that users of our desktop can still access and interact with the broader culture they live in. On the grand scale of these compromises, this seems like a particularly small and easily acceptable one. Luis [1] I imagine we'd welcome continued suggestions on how to better educate users about these compromises, as usual? ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
Dear Richard, An organizations like GNOME is free to decide for themselves which of the online services they will use. There are two things you can do here. o. First is to set up a business that operates the way you want and that allows an organization like GNOME to sell the kind of things it wants to sell. This means offering competition for Amazon and then convince groups like GNOME to use your service instead. I personally think this is the best option for you. Perhaps sit together with people like Stormy Peters to get an idea of the requirements that GNOME has? o. Second is to try and get yourself elected on the GNOME foundation board, and that way have a more direct influence in such decisions. When I read the article that you referred to it seems to be mostly about Amazon's Kindle device. I fail to see much relevance with what GNOME wants to do with Amazon. Besides (and a bit off topic here), the terms[1] referred to in the article state this under Subscriptions: (iii) if we terminate a subscription in advance of the end of its term, we will give you a prorated refund; (iv) we reserve the right to change subscription terms and fees from time to time, effective as of the beginning of the next term; Interestingly failed the EFF.org author to mention this. If people don't agree with such terms, then why do they buy a Kindle device? Although I'm not sure whether this would hold in a European court. As it seems to go in conflict with a previous statement in the Use of Digital Content section. It's up to the people who bought a Kindle, and had content that is affected, to settle this with Amazon. This isn't GNOME's responsibility. We're not the Internet police. --- [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200144530 On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 10:41 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). -- Philip Van Hoof, freelance software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://pvanhoof.be/blog http://codeminded.be ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Philip Van Hoofpvanh...@gnome.org wrote: Dear Richard, An organizations like GNOME is free to decide for themselves which of the online services they will use. And as Richard is a member of GNOME (honorary if not in fact) he's certainly welcome to politely share his opinion of the move with other members, as he has done. You certainly have not shied away from sharing your opinions without getting elected to the board; Richard should be no different. [Mind you, I think Richard has crossed many lines in the past, and I don't condone that (I will have more to say about that in August), but when he is behaving he's entitled to his opinion.] We're not the Internet police. No, but we're an organization with moral goals as well as practical ones, and we should continually question our motivations and strategies to make sure we're doing the best possible job of balancing those ends. Richard and I have loudly disagreed about how to strike that balance in the past, we disagree on this issue, and I assume we will again in the future. But the day we don't at least take into account moral considerations is the day I write a very large check at the Apple store. Luis ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
gtk configuration problem
Hi, I am trying to install gtk in linux system. So, for that I downloaded anjuta-2.0.2 and try to configure this. I also downloaded glib-2.0.0 and glib-2.20.0 So follow some steps, are describing below: *1. I set the PKG_CONFIG_PATH=usr/lib 2. I put the package glib-2.0.0 in the path usr/lib and usr/include 3. In the path /usr/lib/pkgconfig, there is some .pc files. I edited the file glib-2.0.pc, change the glib version to 2.0.0(that I have glib-2.0.0) I edited the file gobject-2.0.pc, here also change the glib version to 2.0.0(that I have glib-2.0.0) 4. then I run the command ./configure * The output of that configuration is: checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for gawk... gawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no checking for perl... /usr/bin/perl checking for XML::Parser... ok checking for iconv... /usr/bin/iconv checking for msgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt checking for msgmerge... /usr/bin/msgmerge checking for xgettext... /usr/bin/xgettext checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed checking for style of include used by make... GNU checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3 checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking for g++... g++ checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... yes checking whether g++ accepts -g... yes checking dependency style of g++... gcc3 checking for library containing strerror... none required checking for egrep... grep -E checking for ANSI C header files... yes checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r checking for BSD-compatible nm... /usr/bin/nm -B checking whether ln -s works... yes checking how to recognise dependent libraries... pass_all checking for sys/types.h... yes checking for sys/stat.h... yes checking for stdlib.h... yes checking for string.h... yes checking for memory.h... yes checking for strings.h... yes checking for inttypes.h... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for unistd.h... yes checking dlfcn.h usability... yes checking dlfcn.h presence... yes checking for dlfcn.h... yes checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E checking for g77... g77 checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... yes checking whether g77 accepts -g... yes checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 32768 checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok checking for objdir... .libs checking for ar... ar checking for ranlib... ranlib checking for strip... strip checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC works... yes checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes checking whether to build shared libraries... yes checking whether to build static libraries... no configure: creating libtool appending configuration tag CXX to libtool checking for ld used by g++... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking whether the g++ linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking for g++ option to produce PIC... -fPIC checking if g++ PIC flag -fPIC works... yes checking if g++ static flag -static works... yes checking if g++ supports -c -o file.o... yes checking whether the g++ linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate appending configuration tag F77 to libtool checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes checking whether to build shared libraries... yes checking whether to build static libraries... no checking for g77 option to produce PIC... -fPIC checking if g77 PIC flag -fPIC works... yes checking if g77 static flag -static works... yes checking if g77 supports -c -o file.o... yes checking whether the g77 linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 11:22 -0400, Luis Villa wrote: Hey Luis! On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Philip Van Hoofpvanh...@gnome.org wrote: An organizations like GNOME is free to decide for themselves which of the online services they will use. And as Richard is a member of GNOME (honorary if not in fact) he's certainly welcome to politely share his opinion of the move with other members, as he has done. You certainly have not shied away from sharing your opinions without getting elected to the board; Richard should be no different. No worries, I obviously agree. The two possibilities that I gave Richard clarify that position. [Mind you, I think Richard has crossed many lines in the past, and I don't condone that (I will have more to say about that in August), but when he is behaving he's entitled to his opinion.] ok We're not the Internet police. No, but we're an organization with moral goals as well as practical ones, and we should continually question our motivations and strategies to make sure we're doing the best possible job of balancing those ends. Richard and I have loudly disagreed about how to strike that balance in the past, we disagree on this issue, and I assume we will again in the future. But the day we don't at least take into account moral considerations is the day I write a very large check at the Apple store. Problem is that Amazon's Kindle story has little relevance to GNOME's Amazon plans. I wont say an issue with little relevance is never a reason to stay away from a company. But when it is, the 'problem' should in my opinion be a large one (like a human rights violation or something). Else we make it a black white thing. This is something GNOME should never do: nothing in life is b w (except some people's ideas). Another problem with trying to find an issue here is that, depending on the point of view, Amazon acted within their own Terms (point iii under Subscriptions). This makes the 'problem' even smaller and the article, that Richard referred to, less relevant. That's why in my opinion it's not GNOME's responsibility. I think this is a sufficient amount of morality checking. -- Philip Van Hoof, freelance software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://pvanhoof.be/blog http://codeminded.be ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: gtk configuration problem
Hi Soumen, Foundation list is not a technical list. Please go here ( http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo) to find a more appropriate list in the future (gtk-list might be a good starting point). I also suggest going on Freenode irc and chatting with people in #gnome or #gtk. Since you are running into a basic problem I can help you with, I'm going to e-mail you off list. -- John (J5) Palmieri 2009/7/21 soumen ghosh ghosh.soume...@gmail.com Hi, I am trying to install gtk in linux system. So, for that I downloaded anjuta-2.0.2 and try to configure this. I also downloaded glib-2.0.0 and glib-2.20.0 So follow some steps, are describing below: *1. I set the PKG_CONFIG_PATH=usr/lib 2. I put the package glib-2.0.0 in the path usr/lib and usr/include 3. In the path /usr/lib/pkgconfig, there is some .pc files. I edited the file glib-2.0.pc, change the glib version to 2.0.0(that I have glib-2.0.0) I edited the file gobject-2.0.pc, here also change the glib version to 2.0.0(that I have glib-2.0.0) 4. then I run the command ./configure * The output of that configuration is: checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for gawk... gawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no checking for perl... /usr/bin/perl checking for XML::Parser... ok checking for iconv... /usr/bin/iconv checking for msgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt checking for msgmerge... /usr/bin/msgmerge checking for xgettext... /usr/bin/xgettext checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed checking for style of include used by make... GNU checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3 checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking for g++... g++ checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... yes checking whether g++ accepts -g... yes checking dependency style of g++... gcc3 checking for library containing strerror... none required checking for egrep... grep -E checking for ANSI C header files... yes checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r checking for BSD-compatible nm... /usr/bin/nm -B checking whether ln -s works... yes checking how to recognise dependent libraries... pass_all checking for sys/types.h... yes checking for sys/stat.h... yes checking for stdlib.h... yes checking for string.h... yes checking for memory.h... yes checking for strings.h... yes checking for inttypes.h... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for unistd.h... yes checking dlfcn.h usability... yes checking dlfcn.h presence... yes checking for dlfcn.h... yes checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E checking for g77... g77 checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... yes checking whether g77 accepts -g... yes checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 32768 checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok checking for objdir... .libs checking for ar... ar checking for ranlib... ranlib checking for strip... strip checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC works... yes checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes checking whether to build shared libraries... yes checking whether to build static libraries... no configure: creating libtool appending configuration tag CXX to libtool checking for ld used by g++... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking whether the g++ linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking for g++ option to produce PIC... -fPIC checking if g++ PIC flag -fPIC works... yes checking if g++ static flag -static works... yes checking if g++ supports -c -o file.o... yes checking whether the g++ linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking
Re: gtk configuration problem
On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 12:23 -0400, john palmieri wrote: Hi Soumen, Foundation list is not a technical list. Please go here (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo) to find a more appropriate list in the future (gtk-list might be a good starting point). I also suggest going on Freenode irc and chatting with people in #gnome or #gtk. Since you are running into a basic problem I can help you with, I'm going to e-mail you off list. This seems to happen relatively frequently, and I suspect it's because of the Support section here: http://www.gtk.org/development.html If you want to help the GTK+ project by donating money OR perhaps your company wants to pay someone to develop GTK+, you can email the GNOME foundation. Any donations to GNOME for GTK+ will ONLY be spent on GTK+. Then there's a link to email foundation-list. The paragraph is pretty clear if you read it. Unfortunately, people don't really read pages like this. They see Support and a big blue like and click. Two ideas on how to address this come to mind. We could put some sort of admonition there reiterating that the link is only for certain types of support. It would have to be big and in your face to ensure people read it. Alternatively (and I think this is better), *first* have a link for community support, then the foundation link. -- Shaun ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
I think is good that people remind us these issues in order to make good or, at least, meditated and informed decisions. Thanks for that:) -- Juanjo Marín PS: I'm not a GNOME member, just a GNOME user and humble contributor. El mar, 21-07-2009 a las 16:04 +0100, Alan Cox escribió: On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:41:36 -0400 Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: Created some Amazon affiliate accounts in US, UK, Canada and Germany so tha= t Jaap can set up stores and a Firefox widget that will enable people to direct Amazon referral fees for their purchase to GNOME. It is not a good thing for the GNOME Foundation to support Amazon in this way. Amazon is one of the main perpetrators of DRM (see http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/07/orwell-2009-dystopia). And stupid patents ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
GNOME can't exist in a cultural vacuum. We should do everything we can to work against DRM, to support sources of Free culture, and to educate users about Free culture, DRM, and non-patent-encumbered media formats.[1] But we also have to make compromises sometimes, so that users of our desktop can still access and interact with the broader culture they live in. I am not suggesting that GNOME should exist in a cultural vacuum, merely that it should refrain from promoting Amazon. Amazon might wish to be the only gateway to culture, but it isn't. Some compromises are necessary; and many others are useful and harmless. Others undermine the moral foundation of what we are doing. (See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html.) This is one of the latter. To promote a company which the FSF is asking people to protest is a particularly bad kind of compromise. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
And stupid patents Many companies get absurd patents -- which does not excuse them -- so in this regard there is no point singling out Amazon. However, Amazon is one of the few that has actually sued using a software patent. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
Amazon was also the first significant provider of mainstream commercial music to offer a 100% DRM-free music store, and also the first (as far as I know) to offer a GNU/Linux client (albeit a non-libre client) for their music store. Distributing a non-libre program means mistreating the users. We cannot ever consider that a good thing. Distributing music without DRM was a good thing, but now even the RIAA says that DRM is dead -- _on music_. But Amazon is trying to impose DRM on reading books. Whatever good Amazon has done has to be compared with the great harm it is now trying to do. This is not to say I'm rushing out to buy a Kindle; I really want one but haven't pulled the trigger exactly because of the DRM. But using Amazon affiliate codes to raise revenue for the Foundation is a world apart from endorsing Kindle's DRM. Advertising Amazon is a very strong form of promotion. Amazon set up this affiliate system because it expects to profit more this way -- so unless Amazon is mistaken in this expectation, the participation of such organizations contributes substantially to its business. It also says that GNOME thinks there is nothing really bad about Amazon. (People presume we would not promote a company we condemn.) If the intention is to convey a message like this: If you are going to buy from Amazon, please mention us so as to give us some of the money. But please don't choose Amazon because of us! then how about saying it explicitly? For instance, we could say If you are going to buy from Amazon, please use our affiliate code. That way, a part of what you pay will go to the GNOME Foundation. But please don't let this influence you to choose Amazon. Remember, Amazon wamts to impose DRM on books [link there to DefectiveByDesign.org] The best thing you can do is buy direct from the publisher. This will succeed in raising some of the funds without appearing to endorse Amazon. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's update: Week of July 13th
Another problem with trying to find an issue here is that, depending on the point of view, Amazon acted within their own Terms (point iii under Subscriptions). Legally, that would make a difference; ethically, it is beside the point. Some people are willing to sign away their freedom for some sort of convenience. In societies where appreciation of freedom is weak, many people may be willing to do this -- especially when unjust laws such as the DMCA and the EU Copyright Directive forbid the existence of an equally convenient alternsative, We cannot accept proprietary software as legitimate merely because users at some point said yes to the license agreement. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
