Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: On 12/14/2009 09:04 PM, Stormy Peters wrote: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to foundation-list and

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Koen Martens
Hi, On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 07:04:50PM -0700, Stormy Peters wrote: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to foundation-list and the value you see in it. Speaking up. I'm currently

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Xavier Bestel
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 09:30 +0100, Koen Martens wrote: Hi, On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 07:04:50PM -0700, Stormy Peters wrote: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Vincent Untz
Le lundi 14 décembre 2009, à 19:04 -0700, Stormy Peters a écrit : Also, maybe someone with list admin privileges could tell us roughly the number of subscribers and how many of them appear to be GNOME Foundation members. We have 574 subscribers on the mailing list. However, there are quite a

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-15 Thread Andy Tai
It seems that a better idea is to consider the Planet not part of GNOME. That way GNOME does not have to deal with whatever is in the planet, like slashdot does not control and is not responsible for the messages by its posters. GNOME controls the official web page content. This planet is not

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Jonathan Corbet
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:04:50 -0700 Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com wrote: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to foundation-list and the value you see in it. Technically I'm

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread brendan
Doesn't this undermines the values of the open source community? While where at making a private list for discussions, why not make the whole gnome project, closed source. The news we generate from such discussions, gives the gnome project public visibility that is needed for gnome to grow. The

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/13/09 8:22 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: ...I would not encourage anyone to use non-free software even to get money to give to a worthy cause. I apologize to all, but given this, there's a question that _really_ has to be asked: Given the proposition that proprietary

Re: Vote to fork Gnome.

2009-12-15 Thread Dave Neary
Handy Gandy wrote: I know that I have no credibility to make such suggestions Good of you to realise that. That's 2 new misinformed members mailing the members list this morning. In case people wonder where these people are coming from, we have been slashdotted, and Varghesed, since this

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Juanjo Marin
El dom, 13-12-2009 a las 13:08 +0100, Peter Hjalmarsson escribió: For gentoo, they have two feeds: the planet, and the universe, where the planet only aggregates those blog posts that are tagged with gentoo, and the universe aggregates the rest. I cannot understand why GNOME cannot have this

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Jonathan Corbet wrote: I watch a lot of projects. In my opinion, the projects which conduct their discussions in the open tend to be the most robust and the most successful. Those which hold their discussions behind closed doors, perhaps occasionally issuing a press release to tell the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-15 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I will, except that I don't know what the process to do that is. Just post to f-l? How would we make a decision? Or gather 10% to put it to vote? Edit the Code, if a few people complain they can remove their signatures (and remove their blogs from PGO, if the

Re: Vote to fork Gnome.

2009-12-15 Thread Lionel Dricot
If we summarize the whole thread without the emotional heat and the sensationalism, we are currently discussing : - Should planet GNOME speak about GNOME only or should it be about GNOME contributors. side question : should we change the rules to remove old contributors ? Which can be

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Juanjo Marin
El lun, 14-12-2009 a las 19:04 -0700, Stormy Peters escribió: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to foundation-list and the value you see in it. I'm not a foundation member, I

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Vincent Untz
Le mardi 15 décembre 2009, à 11:57 +0330, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ a écrit : Also, is a referendum really necessary to create a new members-only mailing list? Noting that becoming membership and participation is always optional. It's not necessary to hold a vote to create a list, but I think

Re: GNOME and GNU

2009-12-15 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi! Sorry, but even the subject of the osnews article is poor sensantion-making! There simply never was a plan about splitting up from GNU other than Philip has raised this as last consequence in a (quite useless, personal, etc.) discussion with RMS. Read the whole thread (it's less than 1000

Administrivia: Subscription policy

2009-12-15 Thread Olav Vitters
In order to slow down people subscribing without reading the archives as a quick fix I've *temporarily* changed the subscription policy to require approval from a moderator. This is NOT a change in policy, everyone will be approved. It is just to avoid lots of new threads about GNU and so on

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Murray Cumming
On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 21:05 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I like to ask for your support in my petition for referendum to make foundation-list archives private and membership limited to actual Foundation members. If we make that change we would be able to discuss matters freely without

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Richard Stallman
As a specific example, to the question, Do you agree that viewing proprietary software as 'illegitimate', 'immoral', 'antisocial' and/or 'unethical' should be a pre-condition for syndication on Planet GNOME?, so far 151 respondents have answered No, only 19 have answered Yes.

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Og Maciel
Since there isn't a place to do this that I'm aware, here is my vote against this petition. For the same reasons that many here have already expressed, I want to keep GNOME open for everyone. And even though GNOME != GNOME Foundation when it comes down to our code, GNOME == GNOME Foundation when

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/15/2009 08:52 AM, Og Maciel wrote: Since there isn't a place to do this that I'm aware, here is my vote against this petition. For the same reasons that many here have already expressed, I want to keep GNOME open for everyone. And even though GNOME != GNOME Foundation when it comes down to

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Jason D. Clinton
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Given the excellent comments so far, I'm leaning towards retracting the proposal. However, there's quite a few others who support it now. So I let it move forward naturally. No, do not detract it. There's a reason

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Pierre-Luc Beaudoin
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 09:50 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote: No, do not detract it. There's a reason there's a debian-devel-private and a kde-private. Sometimes reaching concensus requires meeting behind closed doors away from the noise of those who are not as informed or involved as others.

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Clare So
Hi all, 2009/12/14 Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com: Are there people on this list that are not GNOME Foundation members? If so, can you speak up? It would be good for everyone to know why you subscribe to foundation-list and the value you see in it. I am not a GNOME Foundation member,

To All

2009-12-15 Thread Krsna Das
Dear GNOME/planet peeps, I did read most (as much as my attention span allowed me) of the GNU vs GNOME rumour/idea, and found that the news sites can easily be misled from that discussion as I was. I thank those people (Dave) for clearing things up and apologize for my disruption. Now back

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Murray Cumming
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 09:50 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote: This is about signal-to-noise ratio, not about keeping secrets. So why not just moderate the list? In fact, I thought that non-foundation-members were not even allowed to post here? For instance, I don't understand why RMS's emails

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Gregory Leblanc
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Murray Cumming murr...@murrayc.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 09:50 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote: This is about signal-to-noise ratio, not about keeping secrets. So why not just moderate the list? In fact, I thought that non-foundation-members were not

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Jason D. Clinton
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Murray Cumming murr...@murrayc.comwrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 09:50 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote: This is about signal-to-noise ratio, not about keeping secrets. So why not just moderate the list? Because part of increasing signal-to-noise is giving

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Zeeshan Ali (Khattak)
Hi, On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, Lefty wrote: Given the proposition that proprietary software is illegitimate, and the statement above, do you believe that the GNOME Foundation and community should distance itself from companies which produce

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Miguel de Icaza
Hello, I believe that we should keep the foundation-list open for anyone to read. As Jeff said, trollumnists do not need to play by the same rules that we do, they do not need to stick to the facts when they do not serve their purpose. When facts get in the way, they will just

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Richard Stallman
Doesn't this undermines the values of the open source community? To cite the values of open source as an ethical standard is ironic, because the motive for open source was to avoid presenting an ethical standard. The founders of open source split off from the free software movement in 1998

Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-15 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 05:02:15PM +1000, brendan edmonds wrote: I used the term 'open source' to refer to the following criteria of the definition for a project to be open source (http://opensource.org/docs/osd). I approved this non-member email. However, from