Free tickets to SCaLE 16x!
Hi All! Exciting news for anyone in the Pasadena/Los Angeles area: GNOME has a few extra tickets to SCaLE 16x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/16x) - currently a $90 value. The first person to reply to this email will be given one of them, and the rest will be raffled on social media (twitter, etc). Anyone else who has yet to purchase a ticket can receive half off with GNOME's promo code: GNOME. The Engagement Team -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Every step is a first step if it's a step in the right direction. - Sir Terry Pratchett ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Privacy campaign funds
Why not run a specific contest to find a couple interns specifically to work on privacy issues? No need to involve OPW specifically. On Feb 20, 2015 5:10 PM, "Ekaterina Gerasimova" wrote: > On 20/02/2015, Magdalen Berns wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 08:28:58PM +, Magdalen Berns wrote: > >> > This seems like a nice idea. Why was it rejected? > >> The best argument I remember was that interns wouldn't produce > >> as high quality results as, for example, calling for bids. > >> > >> But as it has been noted, I shouldn't have said "rejected". > >> Sorry for the wrong term. > >> Instead, the idea has not been pursued. > >> > > > > Either idea sounds like a good shout, to me. > > > > How are the specific privacy bugs being determined? Can members proposing > > relevant bugs to put a bounty on for the privacy campaign, if so how > would > > we go about doing that? > > Issues can be proposed at > https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/PrivacyCampaign2013 by anyone. > Proposing an issue does not guarantee that it will be used. The issues > are assessed by a small team and will be confirmed by the board before > being advertised. > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Supporting the free software movement
For what its worth, I believe that if we truly want to promote free
software, we need to begin reaching out to people outside of the
typical tech-sphere. A great place to begin would be with educators
and kids. There are many conferences not specifically related to tech
and free software where we could (and should) be promoting ourselves -
conferences related to homeschooling, science, education, etc. Because
we focus on those already interested in tech we miss out on a huge
segment of the population who is most interested in software that
works and is cheap/free ('as in beer', though they are likely
receptive to the ideals of free software 'as in freedom' as well).
I have spent most of the last year refocusing away from free software
and on my children and their education. This past winter/spring I ran
a class on free software in our homeschool co-op, where I gave out USB
thumb drives to my (4) students and explained the basics of free
software, how to contribute, etc and did my best to get them used
to/comfortable with it. One student chose to install on their own
laptop midway through, and, as far as I know has had no problems thus
far (I'd actually installed on another student's laptop in a
completley unrelated class the semester before as well). This fall
I'll be teaching a class in the same co-op on cryptography & freedom
online, where I plan to hand out usb sticks with Tails, teach students
to use GPG encryption and properly use Tor, i2P and other anonymous
tools online, while constantly reminding them of the need for free
software.
It is only through this sort of outreach to kids and people who are
otherwise ignorant of the importance of freedom that we will ever be
able to build a knowledgeable society. The current focus of too many
free software projects is within themselves and the (relatively) small
tech sphere who already knows of their existence. We need to change
this, and begin to reach out to those who are 'just users' of our
software, if we ever want expand our reach and truly compete with the
proprietary software which is so ubiquitous in our lives today.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> My question is intentionally broad. I'd like to see what candidates
> think about the free software ideals and how they would promote them.
> I am not thinking of one particular issue, and if they surprise me
> with ideas I never thought of, that would be great.
>
> --
> Dr Richard Stallman
> President, Free Software Foundation
> 51 Franklin St
> Boston MA 02110
> USA
> www.fsf.org www.gnu.org
> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
> Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.
>
> ___
> foundation-list mailing list
> foundation-list@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius,
power and magic in it. - Goethe
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein
___
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Re: Supporting the free software movement
I will/would direct the foundation to use free software in any/all endeavors without exception. I will continue to encourage the foundation to work with other free software projects to better integrate with each other and promote each other. When we fight amongst each other we degrade all of the work that is done to improve and promote free software. We will only succeed in bringing free software to everyone when we cease the petty bickering which has divided us for too long. Only by working together and promoting each other do we have a chance to overcome the many misconceptions and prejudices which are aligned against us, and get free software into the hands of people everywhere. In order to do this, we must reach out to other free software projects and work to ensure that our software is compatible with theirs whenever possible, giving all of our users a wider variety of choices to use as we recognize that no one project is 'right' for everyone, but that free software is. Emily Gonyer On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 6:22 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Would candidates please answer the question, > > How will you direct the GNOME Foundation to promote the general idea > of free software: that software should be free/libre? > > I mean, beyond just making GNOME a good and useful free program. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Question for candidates
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Wed, 2014-05-21 at 01:39 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: >> To cooperate formally with a Linux Foundation event would run into a >> problem -- they would probably want to call the GNU/Linux system >> "Linux", and we should not accept that. > > I look forward to the FSF's financial contributions to GNOME > conferences. > > I'd definitely want the GNOME Foundation Board to accept one of its > sponsors using "Linux" if it meant the durability of those GNOME > conferences. They support Free Software as well. > Absolutely. We ought to happily accept the support of anyone and everyone who supports free software, even if their ideals do not line up absolutely perfectly with GNOME's. > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:21 AM, Stormy Peters wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> >> Of course people should be able to be paid to work on free software. >> That's great. But when one or two large companies pay the majority of >> developers, it becomes hard to argue that it is still a 'community >> led' project, let alone one which is independent. And that's where >> GNOME is right now. > > > If you are afraid that one entity has too much influence, you can recruit > other companies to invest as much. > > The other option mentioned is the Wikimedia option. I believe they only > collect donations from individuals. However, as far as I know, they never > had other organizations paying people's salaries, so I don't know if that's > an option for GNOME. > > Stormy Of course Stormy. That's why I'm running for the board. I'd love to see GNOME take up a funding system similar to Wikimedia's. -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
Yes, you're part of the community. But you're being paid by a large corporation to work on it, and as a result are beholden to them at least as much as to the rest of the community. Red Hat is not the only thing that matters in the GNOME world. Or, it shouldn't be. But for the last several years, Red Hat's wants/needs have trumped what anyone else wants/needs, including the larger user base of GNOME which is what (I believe) has driven it to fracture into so many DE's over the last 3-4 years. We need to make sure that people who aren't working for Red Hat have a say. Make sure that people who aren't being paid to work on free software have a voice. Sure, those of us who are not currently paid can speak up on mailing lists, but we're (mostly) roundly ignored. This is what has driven the community apart. This is the problem. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:18 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Wed, 2014-05-21 at 07:15 -0400, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> Of course people should be able to be paid to work on free software. >> That's great. But when one or two large companies pay the majority of >> developers, it becomes hard to argue that it is still a 'community >> led' project, let alone one which is independent. And that's where >> GNOME is right now. > > Are we (those paid contributors) not part of the community? Are non-paid > volunteers the only ones that can be part of the "community"? I don't > understand your answer here. > >> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:35 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: >> > On 21 May 2014 10:14, Bastien Nocera wrote: >> >> Suggesting that we don't have GNOME's best interests at heart is >> >> just hurtful, and incorrect. >> > >> > Agreed. I've never once been told by anyone at Red Hat to do something >> > that I didn't think was in the best interests of GNOME as a project. >> > >> > Richard >> >> >> > > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
Of course people should be able to be paid to work on free software. That's great. But when one or two large companies pay the majority of developers, it becomes hard to argue that it is still a 'community led' project, let alone one which is independent. And that's where GNOME is right now. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:35 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: > On 21 May 2014 10:14, Bastien Nocera wrote: >> Suggesting that we don't have GNOME's best interests at heart is >> just hurtful, and incorrect. > > Agreed. I've never once been told by anyone at Red Hat to do something > that I didn't think was in the best interests of GNOME as a project. > > Richard -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: question for candidates
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Andy Tai wrote: > Hi, I would like to post this question to the candidates: > > GNOME's core toolkit, gtk+, is used by numerous projects. Currently gtk+ > development seems to be driven mainly by the GNOME desktop. However, gtk+ > also play critical roles in other free software projects, like MATE, XFCE, > and the Cinnamon desktop, and large applications like GIMP, Inkscape, etc. > > What are your views on the participation of the people of these projects, > as stake holders in the direction of gtk+, in the GNOME Foundation? Should > the GNOME Foundation encourage (reach out to) these people to get them > involved in the GNOME Foundation so they also have a say and even > contribute to gtk+ so gtk+ can continue to serve their needs well, > important for the continuing successes of gtk+ in the free software world? > They are (or ought to be) just as involved in the development of GTK+ as the developers of GNOME Shell are, and their opinions, wants, needs etc ought to be valued. The GNOME project is not (or at least, should not) be exclusively about GNOME Shell, but include anyone and everyone who uses GNOME technologies. The sever fracturing of the community which has taken place over the last 3-4 years is not healthy for our community, nor for theirs. Everyone who is using GTK+ ought to be included in ongoing discussions as to its development. They should be invited to GUADEC and encouraged to submit talks, and become foundation members. As a member of the board, I will do my best to engage with them and encourage them to do so, while also doing my best to ensure that their voices, thoughts, concerns, etc are heard, understood and thought of in any and all changes going forwards. Emily Gonyer > > > -- > Andy Tai, a...@atai.org > Year 2010 民國99年 > 自動的精神力是信仰與覺悟 > 自動的行為力是勞動與技能 > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: About possible participation in Rest the Net campaign
I agree whole heartidly that this is a valuable and good use of GNOME time and resources. As a free software project ostensibly committed to freedom, privacy and security, it behooves us to participate. Emily Gonyer On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Oliver Propst wrote: > Hi, its great to see the all the activities around the upcoming Board > election, I hope we still are able to focus on day-today things. > > There is right now a campaign, Reset the Net [1] about remind people > about government surveillance and the the importance of privacy on June > 5 [2], one year after the NSA/Snowden revelations. > > Some participants include: Demand progress, Freepress.net, Free > Software Foundation, Open Technology Institute, Reddit and > Duck Duck Go. > > With our commitment to privacy and recently improved tools in this > area (the new privacy setting panel and new privacy > features in Web for exemple) [3] I think its makes sense for GNOME to > participate. > > This would include: > Display a banner on GNOME.org, 5 June with link to > https://www.resetthenet.org/ > Promote our participation on the campaign website > Promote our our participation and our work in this area in our own > channels (gnome.org och twitter). > > On the last Engagement Team Meeting [4] we agreed that this something > interesting. What do you foundation members think? If there is no > serious concerns I plan to ask the Board for approval. > > > 1 https://www.resetthenet.org/ > 2http://resetthenet.tumblr.com/?t=dXNlcmlkPTU0MzA3MDcxLGVtYWlsaWQ9NzU1MQ== > 3 https://www.resetthenet.org/#add-yourself > 4 https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/etm-2014-05-08 > > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
In regards to paid and unpaid contributors to GNOME, I honestly feel that unpaid contributions should be favored. I realize that is probably unlikely to occur, but it ought to. Why? Because GNOME is, at least in theory, a free software 'project'. As such, it is supposedly run, and worked on largely by volunteers. Unfortunately of course, we all know this is not true. In practice most of the top contributors are paid to work on GNOME - as a result, most of their work is directed by corporations, and their wants/needs and not by the thousands of individual users who have different wants/needs. But because they are paid to work on it, they have more time to do so and rise faster and receive more respect and admiration than those of us who do so 'just for fun'. This creates a lopsided portrait of the wants/needs of users. And, of course, the corporations who are paying for the work don't care what individual users think - why would they? As a result, users are ignored and the larger free software community alienated. This is, IMHO why the GNOME ecosystem has fractured so fully over the last couple of years. Where we once had GNOME we now have GNOME Shell, Unity, Elementary, Cinnamon and Mate all competing for the same handful of users. I'm not going to pretend that I know how to fix this problem. I don't. But I do know it exists, and that it has been largely, if not completely ignored by the majority of GNOME developers and certainly by the Board of Directors thus far. Perhaps most striking is the very composition of the Board of Directors itself. How many are not paid to work on GNOME by an Advisory Board member? Isn't this in some way a conflict of interest? Shouldn't the board be independent and not tied to corporate interests? Shouldn't the needs of the project come first, and not the needs of any individual corporation? On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > "On 20 May 2014 12:10, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Ekaterina Gerasimova >> wrote: >>> Hi Emily, >>> >>> On 17 May 2014 19:42, Emily Gonyer wrote: >>>> Name: Emily Gonyer >>>> Email: emilyyr...@gmail.com >>>> Affiliation: None >>>> >>>> Dear Foundation, >>>> >>>> I'm interested in serving on GNOME's board of directors for the first >>>> time, in order to help steer GNOME in a more open and community led >>>> direction. It is my opinion that GNOME has strode too far towards a >>>> corporate-driven project and away from its community-led roots. As of >>>> now, GNOME is, in my opinion too beholden to a small handful of large >>>> corporations which forces the project to ignore large swaths of our >>>> users in preference to them. The end result being that GNOME has lost >>>> a tremendous portion of its respect and goodwill in the wider free >>>> software community. As a member of the GNOME board of directors I will >>>> actively work against this tide and towards the more open, >>>> community-driven project that GNOME once was and I hope will be again. >>> >>> I understand your concerns with regards to corporate involvement in >>> the project direction. >>> >>> Based on the available financial information, the corporate >>> sponsorship enables the Foundation to employ an executive director and >>> an administrative assistant. Without this sponsorship, much of the >>> administrative work would need to be taken over by the Foundation >>> membership and the current board is already facing the challenges >>> resulting from having only one employee at this time. >>> >>> How do you aim to achieve your goals without alienating the companies >>> that enable the Foundation to have employees to do the administrative >>> work and offer financial support to our membership? >>> >>> GNOME is Free software, with a broad base of unpaid and paid >>> contributors. It seems that you wish to change the proportions of >>> GNOME contributors from the two backgrounds, how do you aim to achieve >>> this? >> >> I think we need to take a good, hard look at what we're spending money >> on and evaluate what is truly needed vs wanted. Once we figure out how >> much money we need to be spending, we can evaluate our current funds, >> where they are coming from and how to raise more. > > This information is publicly available for up to the end of 2013 at > https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/FinancialSummary . What conclusions > have you drawn from it? > >> Donating to GNOME as an individual is not
Re: Question for candidates
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Emily Chen wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to ask below questions to future board: > > 1. For GNOME big event, call for sponsor is really important, what is your > plan to call for more sponsors for conference like GUADEC and GNOME.Asia ? > I think it is of utmost importance that big events have numerous sponsors, both large and small. Local businesses ought to be encouraged to support events. I'm not sure what sorts of local business organizations exist in Europe and Asia but something similar to the Chambers of Commerce here in the USA likely do, and would be useful as primary contact points to reach out to for donations. > 2. What is the top 3 goals for GNOME Foundation in the next year, in your > opinion ? I think that it will be extremely important in the next year to reach out to related projects. Since the advent of GNOME 3 we have seen a severe fracturing in the ecosystem, which is not benefiting anyone. Reaching out to related projects (Unity, Cinnamon, Mate, ElementaryOS, XFCE, etc) and asking them to participate in GUADEC, GNOME.Asia, the Boston Summit is vitally important. GNOME is about more than just the shell and recognizing that everyone who uses GNOME technologies is, or should be welcomed into the project. > > 3. How to raise and increase the fund for GNOME Foundation ? I've touched on this elsewhere, so I'll be brief: We need to increase individual and small-business donations. There are many ways to do so which we have left untapped including Facebook & Google Wallet donations, encouraging the use of AmazonSmile and similar programs, etc. > > 4. How many hours you work in GNOME Board related work each week? > N/A > Thanks! > > Emily Chen > > > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Questions for the candidates: finances
In my previous email responding to Kat, I touched on this very subject. First and foremost we need to determine two things: 1) How much money we are currently spending on what, and what is truly needed. 2) How much money is currently coming in, and from where - this should be broken down into categories - individual donations, and at least the top 5-10 corporate donors ought to be listed along with how much they have been and are giving. Then we should move on to determining how we can raise donations from individuals and small businesses. Donors should not have to search the website to figure out how to do so - a small, but prominent link to 'Contribute to GNOME!' would not be out of place on the site. Currently it takes at least 3 clicks to arrive at a site where you can donate - and your only choice for doing so is via paypal. Why don't we accept other payment options? Is it just that nobody has bothered to set it up? If that is the case, we should be asking for help doing so. At the very least, we should accept payments from google, facebook and amazon, and we should at least consider accepting bitcoins as well. Finally, there are other funding options available online - a quick search reveals numerous websites with ideas on how to more effectively raise funds. Utilizing every tool available to us to raise money from individuals should be our first priority. Only after we have fully explored these options should we go back to asking for yet more corporate money. Emily Gonyer On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:28 AM, oliverp wrote: > On Tue, 2014-05-20 at 10:48 +0200, oliverp wrote: >> On Mon, 2014-05-19 at 22:02 -0400, Marina Zhurakhinskaya wrote: >> I think we can do more with organization sponsorship and individual >> donations than we are doing right now. We have a product that is naturally >> of interest to a lot of consumers and corporate users, and of interest to >> hardware and application developers to be compatible with. We also have >> technology that is of interest to people to build their own products with or >> create services around. When it became known that the GNOME Foundation was >> in a difficult financial situation, we received an unprecedented number of >> individual donations. These were previously untapped donors who are very >> supportive of GNOME. I think we should aim to increase how much we get in >> private donations, and we can do that by reporting to our donors how their >> money is being used and having yearly fundraising campaigns. We need to >> dedicate our fundraising energy to these two sources because they are >> complimentary to the goals we have for advancing our technology. As a >> Foundation, even with an ED, we have > lim >> limited resources, so we need to consider how to allocate them most >> effectively. >> >> >> > I'd like to share a great article about fundraising by the Ada Initiative >> > founders which has informed some of my views on it. >> > http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-ada-initiative-founders-on-funding-activism-for-women-in-open-source > That is a great article thanks for sharing! The Engagement Team have started > a discussion [1] about how the Foundation > can become more effective in the fundraising, and as part of that effort > set-up a wiki page [2] with some resources on the subject (have added > the post it to the wiki). > > I hope you are interested in joining this effort, the Engagement Team > want to collaborate closely with the Board in this. > > 1https://mail.gnome.org/archives/engagement-list/2014-April/msg00052.html > 2https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/FriendsOfGNOME/HowWeCanImprove > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > Hi Emily, > > On 17 May 2014 19:42, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> Name: Emily Gonyer >> Email: emilyyr...@gmail.com >> Affiliation: None >> >> Dear Foundation, >> >> I'm interested in serving on GNOME's board of directors for the first >> time, in order to help steer GNOME in a more open and community led >> direction. It is my opinion that GNOME has strode too far towards a >> corporate-driven project and away from its community-led roots. As of >> now, GNOME is, in my opinion too beholden to a small handful of large >> corporations which forces the project to ignore large swaths of our >> users in preference to them. The end result being that GNOME has lost >> a tremendous portion of its respect and goodwill in the wider free >> software community. As a member of the GNOME board of directors I will >> actively work against this tide and towards the more open, >> community-driven project that GNOME once was and I hope will be again. > > I understand your concerns with regards to corporate involvement in > the project direction. > > Based on the available financial information, the corporate > sponsorship enables the Foundation to employ an executive director and > an administrative assistant. Without this sponsorship, much of the > administrative work would need to be taken over by the Foundation > membership and the current board is already facing the challenges > resulting from having only one employee at this time. > > How do you aim to achieve your goals without alienating the companies > that enable the Foundation to have employees to do the administrative > work and offer financial support to our membership? > > GNOME is Free software, with a broad base of unpaid and paid > contributors. It seems that you wish to change the proportions of > GNOME contributors from the two backgrounds, how do you aim to achieve > this? I think we need to take a good, hard look at what we're spending money on and evaluate what is truly needed vs wanted. Once we figure out how much money we need to be spending, we can evaluate our current funds, where they are coming from and how to raise more. Donating to GNOME as an individual is not as easy as it could, indeed should, be. We don't currently have a specific 'campaign' going on, and as a result, a cursory glance at the website reveals no obvious way to donate to GNOME's general fund (as far as I can tell the only way to do so is to find the tiny 'Support GNOME' link at the very bottom of the page). Additionally, I still don't understand why the only way to donate to GNOME is through PayPal. Why don't we allow people to donate via google or amazon? Why not accept bitcoins? Why not encourage people to support GNOME via AmazonSmile and similar programs? These are just the first handful of ideas for alternative, and largely untapped funding options that occur to me at first glance. I'm sure there are myriad other funding options which we have not investigated fully, and which do not include asking for corporate sponsorship. Finally, I believe the board needs to be far more transparent than it has been of late as to its activities & finances. The board in the past has been resistant to allowing non-board members to 'sit in' on meetings - even as a means for Engagement team members to take notes and report minutes. As I understand it, the board represents and works on behalf of the membership and their meetings ought to be public. Emily Gonyer > >> I have been a long time user of GNOME since the 1.x days, and an >> active contributor for the last 2+ years, primarily in >> Marketing/Engagement with limited development and design >> contributions. I actively promote free >> software whenever and wherever I can, and feel strongly that it is >> only through free software that we will be able to keep the freedoms >> that we all cherish both online and off. Those freedoms are being >> actively obstructed and eroded by corporations and governments around >> the world. As a member of the board of directors I will actively work >> against these forces, in order to ensure a free and open internet for >> everyone. >> >> Good luck to all! >> >> -- >> Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >> power and magic in it. - Goethe >> >> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't >> matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss >> >> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that >> counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein >> __
Re: Announcing Board of Directors Elections 2014
I have re-sent my application to the aforementioned lists (foundation-announce & elections), and it is 'awaiting moderator approval'. On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Andrea Veri wrote: > 2014-05-17 17:55 GMT+02:00 Andre Klapper : > >> On Tue, 2014-05-06 at 21:48 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: >> > CANDIDACY >> > = >> > If you want to run for one of the seven positions on The GNOME >> > Foundation Board of Directors, then send an email to >> > foundation-announce gnome org and elections gnome org >> [...] >> > All discussion related to the elections should be held on >> > foundation-list. >> >> Quoted instructions state people announce on foundation-announce. >> Instructions don't say to CC foundation-list, but to implicitly discuss >> candidates on foundation-list@gnome.org. Somehow. >> Does that mean we cross fingers that people find out how to set >> "Reply-To" in their mail clients? > > > Understanding what the 'Reply-to' field is for is not required in this case, > anyone who is willing to ask a question should just create a new email > making sure the 'To' field is populated with foundation-list@gnome.org > accordingly. In the case a question is meant against a specific candidacy > just removing the current 'To' field from foundation-annou...@gnome.org to > foundation-list@gnome.org should be enough. I'll make sure to add the > 'Reply-to' header myself next time, it slipped out of my head when I sent > the announcement out. > >> >> Looking at candidacy announcements so far, I see: >> foundation-announce: Tobi, Oliver, Jeff, Karen, Andrea. >> foundation-list: Tobi, Oliver, Jeff, Karen, Emily, Sriram, Anish. > > > Although instructions are clear about where candidacies should be sent to > (that is foundation-announce@g.o + CC on elections@g.o, the latter (as per > my follow-up at [1]) is not > really needed but won't create any harm. (for the next elections we will > just require candidacies to be sent to foundation-annou...@gnome.org with > eventual follow-ups and questions to be sent to foundation-list@gnome.org) > > That said the GNOME Foundation Elections and Membership Committee will make > sure to "parse" the proposed candidacies on both lists, we do suggest Emily > and Sriram to send a copy of their candidacy to foundation-announce as well > as a future reference. > > [1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2014-May/msg6.html > > -- > Cheers, > > Andrea > > Debian Developer, > Fedora / EPEL packager, > GNOME Sysadmin, > > GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman > > Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Emily Gonyer
Name: Emily Gonyer Email: emilyyr...@gmail.com Affiliation: None Dear Foundation, I'm interested in serving on GNOME's board of directors for the first time, in order to help steer GNOME in a more open and community led direction. It is my opinion that GNOME has strode too far towards a corporate-driven project and away from its community-led roots. As of now, GNOME is, in my opinion too beholden to a small handful of large corporations which forces the project to ignore large swaths of our users in preference to them. The end result being that GNOME has lost a tremendous portion of its respect and goodwill in the wider free software community. As a member of the GNOME board of directors I will actively work against this tide and towards the more open, community-driven project that GNOME once was and I hope will be again. I have been a long time user of GNOME since the 1.x days, and an active contributor for the last 2+ years now. I actively promote free software whenever and wherever I can, and feel strongly that it is only through free software that we will be able to keep the freedoms that we all cherish both online and off. Those freedoms are being actively obstructed and eroded by corporations and governments around the world. As a member of the board of directors I will actively work against these forces, in order to ensure a free and open internet for everyone. Good luck to everyone! Emily Gonyer -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GUADEC 2014 organization meeting
Erm... is this today (Tuesday November 26th) or on Thursday November 28th?? On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Alexandre Franke wrote: > Hi, > > As you should know by now, next GUADEC will happen in summer 2014 in > Strasbourg, France. > > The first online meeting for the organization will happen on Tuesday > November 28th 2013 at 15:00 CEST (14:00 UTC) on #guadec on > irc.gnome.org and you're welcome to join us. As it's the first one, > I'm announcing it on foundation-list as well. If you're interested in > GUADEC organization and want to see the next announcements, please > subscribe to guadec-list. > > The agenda is available at > https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/2014/Meetings/20131128 > > Have a nice day. > > -- > Alexandre Franke > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Tobias Mueller wrote: > Hi. > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 09:03:34AM -0500, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> And, once again, I have to ask, how much different does it have/need >> to be? > I don't think any designer would want my advice as to how to make a logo. > But I am very confident that minor modifications such as using the Ubuntu > circle > instead of a plain filled circle would make all of us happy. > >> It is slightly different already, in Ubuntu's normal scheme for >> spinoffs - if you look at Xubuntu's logo its a solid circle with the >> XFCE mouse inside in relief > I claim false facts. > The XFCE logo seems to be this: > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Xfce_logo.png > A full bodied, potentially running mouse in front of an X. > The Xubuntu logo seems to be that one: > http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/themes/xubuntu-theme/xubuntu-wp/images/xubuntu-logo.png > It's a (probably the XFCE) mouse's head in a filled circle. > So the logos differ. > >> Kubuntu's is a solid circle with KDE's logo inside. > The KDE logo <http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Guidelines/CIG/KDE_Logo> is > a > K gear. > The Kubuntu logo <http://www.kubuntu.org/themes/kubuntu10.04/logo.png> > has a split gear-wheel only. The K is missing. > Thus, the logos differ. Alright. So how about this. We chop the toes off of the foot, so its not quite the same. Will that work for you? Of course not. That'd be 'bad design'. This nit picking is what makes people hate GNOME. What makes people (good people!) throw up their arms and say screw it! Cause' trying to work with GNOME isn't worth it - its far more hassle than its worth, and far easier/better/simpler to just fork and move on. As Cinnamon and Elementary have done. Or avoid (whenever possible) acknowledging that they're using portions of GNOME as XFCE is. As Dave pointed out, back a few yrs ago, people who were using only portions of GNOME were happily included in the GNOME family. But now GNOME insists on drawing utterly arbitrary and constantly shifting lines in the sand as to what constitutes 'GNOME'. Its ridiculous. Its spiteful, and above all its counter productive. > > Cheers, > Tobi -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Allan Day wrote: > Dave Neary wrote: >>> My stance is that I am happy for them (or anyone) to include GNOME in their >>> product. They have permission (IIRC) to name it "something GNOME". So it's a >>> different product, i.e. not "GNOME". I am happy if they use our logo. I'd be >>> more happy if they also silghtly modify the logo as they slightly modified >>> the >>> name. I assume it's relatively low effort and helps us to defend improper >>> usage >>> in the future and them to differentiate their product. If it's not low >>> effor to >>> slightly modify the logo, then I might come to a different conclusion. >> >> I totally agree Toby. > > This is pretty much my position, although I'd probably weight my > preference for modifying the logo a bit more strongly. (There's > clearly been some miscommunication here.) Of course Ubuntu GNOME > should be able to use the logo - I was just arguing that they > shouldn't *just* use the GNOME logo [1]. And, once again, I have to ask, how much different does it have/need to be? It is slightly different already, in Ubuntu's normal scheme for spinoffs - if you look at Xubuntu's logo its a solid circle with the XFCE mouse inside in relief, Kubuntu's is a solid circle with KDE's logo inside. This is the standard Ubuntu flavor logo. Why does Ubuntu GNOME's need to be different? > > Allan > > [1] It's a useful thought exercise to think about what would happen if > openSUSE (to pick an example) wanted to launch "openSUSE GNOME", btw. > In this case they'd differentiate themselves from "Ubuntu GNOME", > etc... > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Alexandre Franke wrote: > On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> Why would we want it to communicate "Distinguish this from GNOME"? I >> won't say there can't be any such reason, but I don't see that there >> is one. I haven't seen any discussion about this in the current >> thread. Does anyone see a reason for this? > > Do the Ubuntu GNOME maintainers ship all the upstream GNOME pieces or > are some of them replaced with distribution specific ones? E.g. are > they shipping GNOME Online Accounts or Ubuntu Online Accounts? 13.10 includes GNOME Online Accounts, Evolution, Empathy and most of the core components. Gnumeric and such have been replaced with LibreOffice for obvious reasons, as has Web with Firefox, but most of GNOME's other applications are installed by default. > >> I can't see any possible reason for wanting to it communicate "This is >> Ubuntu's GNOME". What good does that do us or our cause? None that >> I can see. > > If they are replacing upstream pieces with distribution ones, we may > not want that new set to be seen as GNOME because users might be led > into believing some issues they encounter come from our software when > that might not be the case. Its this sort of reasoning which drives many people away from GNOME. Because people aren't using 100% of GNOME's software, we often seem intent on driving them out of the project. Just because you aren't running Fedora doesn't mean you aren't using GNOME. > > -- > Alexandre Franke > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Nov 22, 2013 7:33 AM, "Allan Day" wrote: > > Vincent Untz wrote: > ... > >> Yeah, so the thing that I think we really miss is some examples of > >> what is cool to do. Like examples of t-shirts and stickers, and > >> original designs based on the logo. My understanding is that this > >> would require some work from the board... > > > > What about all the goodies we had at FOSDEM and GUADEC in the last 7 or > > 8 years? :-) > > There are certainly good examples that we can use there. The trick > will be to make sure that the guidelines and the examples are aligned, > of course. > > Again, I think that a more detailed set of visual identity guidelines > would help here, since it will enable us to articulate a common style. > It might be worth holding off making any major updates to the existing > guidelines until that's done. > > >> Right now the guidelines are pretty unfriendly (especially the > >> guidelines for third parties, which is one of the things I don't like > >> about them) and only really cover what you can't do, rather than what > >> you can. The new page I wrote makes an effort to do away with as much > >> unfriendliness as possible, but could be more welcoming and > >> accessible. > > > > Just to give an example of what we do in openSUSE: > > http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Trademark_guidelines > > > > To be clear, this page is clearly not the most friendly page out there > > (too complex), but it explicitly gives many examples of what can be done > > without requesting permission. > > I agree. Examples are good. > > >> >> In the Ubuntu GNOME case, I think it's fair to ask about the logo, > >> >> irrespective of the trademark guidelines. Their logo [1] is > >> >> essentially the same as the GNOME logo itself; some differentiation > >> >> seems beneficial for both them and us. We don't have to be unfriendly > >> >> about it, but then a dialogue about how they can help to support the > >> >> GNOME brand doesn't seem like a bad thing. > >> > > >> > Of course it's fair, but to be honest, I'm fine with them using our > >> > logo. Fedora and openSUSE both use our logo too: > >> > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops > >> > http://software.opensuse.org/131/en > >> > > >> > Sure, the context is slightly different, because you see all the flavors > >> > on the same page for Fedora and openSUSE, while it's not the case for > >> > Ubuntu GNOME. But it feels the same. > >> > >> The seem like different types of cases to me, to be honest. Using the > >> GNOME foot as a logo for an independent project seems of a different > >> type to indicating that GNOME is featured in a piece of software. (The > >> latter is stated as fair use by the third party guidelines, fwiw.) > > > > Here's the thing: I don't see Ubuntu GNOME as an independent project, > > but as the result of the work of the GNOME team in Ubuntu, in very much > > the same way the GNOME team in openSUSE is able to produce a pretty good > > openSUSE+GNOME-based live image. And quoting their wiki page: "Ubuntu > > GNOME is an official flavour of Ubuntu, featuring the GNOME desktop > > environment." [1] That seams to match pretty well what you wrote above > > about Fedora and openSUSE. > > > > And really, coming back to one of my initial feeling: I actually want > > them to use our logo so they can help promote GNOME! > > Of course Ubuntu GNOME can use the GNOME logo, and they can have a > logo which itself includes the GNOME logo. In doing so, they can > articulate that they work in collaboration with GNOME, and they can > help to promote the GNOME project. > > A logo should communicate the identity of the project (or the product) > to which it belongs. Ubuntu GNOME isn't solely a product of the GNOME > project, so I don't t think it's accurate to use the GNOME logo alone. > In fact, I think that a different logo would be beneficial for the > Ubuntu GNOME project, since it would help them to make themselves > recognisable. So, ubuntu gnome csn use the logo, it just has to be 'more different' ?? How much different? ? As I recall the name ubuntu gnome was picked in conjunction with the gnome project, so hopefully no-one now has an issue with it. Its just the logo. And yet its a pretty standard ubuntu logo of a different project, if you consider the logos for kubuntu or xubuntu. > > Allan ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Vincent Untz wrote: > Hi, > > Le jeudi 21 novembre 2013, à 12:17 +, Allan Day a écrit : >> Vincent Untz wrote: >> >> Do we have examples of the guidelines "hurting us"? >> > >> > I can think of groups simply choosing to not use the GNOME logo anymore >> > because they're afraid of not respecting the guidelines. >> >> I'd be interested in the specifics here. Could you send me contact >> details for the groups concerned? > > I'd start with all the local groups that we have (see > https://wiki.gnome.org/UserGroups -- it's likely outdated, though) and > our downstreams (contact would be distributor-list). > >> > If I was >> > completely new to the community, and I'd read the guidelines, I'd simply >> > think that it's simpler to not use the logo at all. I'd not even ask... >> > >> > This hurts because I can imagine local groups not doing stickers, >> > flyers, etc. because they'd be afraid of the guidelines. Back in the >> > days when we started GNOME-FR, there were no guidelines so we went crazy >> > and did many different things; we wouldn't have done all that with the >> > current guidelines. >> >> Yeah, so the thing that I think we really miss is some examples of >> what is cool to do. Like examples of t-shirts and stickers, and >> original designs based on the logo. My understanding is that this >> would require some work from the board... > > What about all the goodies we had at FOSDEM and GUADEC in the last 7 or > 8 years? :-) > >> Right now the guidelines are pretty unfriendly (especially the >> guidelines for third parties, which is one of the things I don't like >> about them) and only really cover what you can't do, rather than what >> you can. The new page I wrote makes an effort to do away with as much >> unfriendliness as possible, but could be more welcoming and >> accessible. > > Just to give an example of what we do in openSUSE: > http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Trademark_guidelines > > To be clear, this page is clearly not the most friendly page out there > (too complex), but it explicitly gives many examples of what can be done > without requesting permission. > >> >> In the Ubuntu GNOME case, I think it's fair to ask about the logo, >> >> irrespective of the trademark guidelines. Their logo [1] is >> >> essentially the same as the GNOME logo itself; some differentiation >> >> seems beneficial for both them and us. We don't have to be unfriendly >> >> about it, but then a dialogue about how they can help to support the >> >> GNOME brand doesn't seem like a bad thing. >> > >> > Of course it's fair, but to be honest, I'm fine with them using our >> > logo. Fedora and openSUSE both use our logo too: >> > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops >> > http://software.opensuse.org/131/en >> > >> > Sure, the context is slightly different, because you see all the flavors >> > on the same page for Fedora and openSUSE, while it's not the case for >> > Ubuntu GNOME. But it feels the same. >> >> The seem like different types of cases to me, to be honest. Using the >> GNOME foot as a logo for an independent project seems of a different >> type to indicating that GNOME is featured in a piece of software. (The >> latter is stated as fair use by the third party guidelines, fwiw.) > > Here's the thing: I don't see Ubuntu GNOME as an independent project, > but as the result of the work of the GNOME team in Ubuntu, in very much > the same way the GNOME team in openSUSE is able to produce a pretty good > openSUSE+GNOME-based live image. And quoting their wiki page: "Ubuntu > GNOME is an official flavour of Ubuntu, featuring the GNOME desktop > environment." [1] That seams to match pretty well what you wrote above > about Fedora and openSUSE. > > And really, coming back to one of my initial feeling: I actually want > them to use our logo so they can help promote GNOME! > Exactly. I really don't understand whats not to like about Ubuntu GNOME promoting the fact that if you use Ubuntu and you want GNOME (as many of us do), there's a ready-made flavor for you. Ubuntu GNOME is promoting GNOME - how/why is that a bad thing? > Cheers, > > Vincent > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME > > -- > Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote: > On 11/21/2013 10:59 AM, Allan Day wrote: >> Máirín Duffy wrote: >>> I see the brand book I put together with Jeff Waugh way back when (where >>> that vertical version of the logo came from, and the existing logotype) >>> has been unceremoniously deleted or somehow obscured from being able to >>> be viewed on the wiki now. Any time I hit a search term that seems to >>> point to it, I get a redirect to this new logo and trademarks page. >> ... >> >> There have been a number of threads about this on the Engagement list, >> and it was discussed at the Marketing Hackfest (there were blog posts >> about this) and at GUADEC. I didn't see anyone volunteering to help me >> with this work at the time, or subsequently... >> >> The files were moved to cloud.gnome.org as a part of a general clean >> up exercise which was announced on the mailing list. There are links >> to the new location of these files from the Engagement team wiki page. >> > > I had no idea there was even an engagement list. Was it announced on > this list? I believe we announced back in June that the Marketing Team was changing its name to Engagement after the hackfest in New York City. I'm not sure that the change was announced on foundation-list, though I am fairly certain it was on marketing, and was certainly blogged about a good bit at the time. > > Why was a redirect put in place? It comes off as very aggressive. > > Why not have a placeholder page that has a link to the new page, so that > the history is still accessible? I have no clue how you dug up that > cloud.gnome.org link, how does one look something like that up? How > would a layman researching GNOME's brand history come across that? > Certainly not through Google, I tried! > > And what of the OPW intern's work? > > ~m > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013
So, what would Ubuntu GNOME need to do to differentiate their logo from the 'normal' GNOME logo? Can they not use the GNOME foot at all? Could they simply add a line 'not sanctioned by the GNOME Foundation' to the website? What needs to be done? Emily On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > >> On 18 Nov 2013, at 01:15, Vincent Untz wrote: >> >> Hi, >>> * Ubuntu GNOME trademark usage >>> * The team is using the GNOME logo for their Ubuntu spin >>> * We recommended they should not use the GNOME logo in the current form >>> * '''ACTION''': Karen to contact the Ubuntu GNOME spin team for >>> their use of the GNOME trademark >> >> Can we get more details on this? I'm obviously lacking context, but it >> sounds disappointing that downstreams cannot use the GNOME logo to >> promote GNOME spins/flavors they're doing. (Saying that as an openSUSE >> guy, who's not involved in Ubuntu GNOME in any way :-)) > > The problem, I guess from discussions when I was still on the board, is that > the "Ubuntu GNOME" is just the GNOME logo in a circle. That's hardly enough > differentiation. Using the GNOME logo on the cover art to show that it's > built with GNOME would probably alright too. > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for someone to help update GNOME Foundation wikipedia
Hi Jim - I totally understand. Most of what I've done has simply been updating names/dates/etc (mostly related to the current vs former board of directors) and minor grammatical/ease of reading edits. I hope/assume that's OK. :) Emily Gonyer On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Jim Nelson wrote: > I hate to be a buzzkill, but as someone who used to be very active on > Wikipedia (and a bit protective of it), I ask anyone associated with the > GNOME Foundation editing articles related to GNOME or the Foundation to > review Wikipedia's conflict of interest policy: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:COI > > Thanks, > > -- Jim > > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Emily Gonyer wrote: > > I've made a few preliminary edits and will try to get some more done > tomorrow. But I/we will certainly keep such things in mind :) Are there > other wikipedia pages we should should be keeping an eye or two out for? > Emily On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna > wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider [ whether > defending the US Constitution against all enemies, [ foreign or domestic, > requires you to follow Snowden's example. We're looking for someone to > update the GNOME Foundation wikipedia page with accurate information. When > someone does this, could she also please make sure it says "free software" > or "free/libre software", not "open source"? And if it refers to the > GNU/Linux system, it should not call the system "Linux". > > Sure. > > -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree > (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. > > ___ foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > -- > Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power > and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those > who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not > everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be > counted. - Albert Einstein ___ > foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for someone to help update GNOME Foundation wikipedia
I've made a few preliminary edits and will try to get some more done tomorrow. But I/we will certainly keep such things in mind :) Are there other wikipedia pages we should should be keeping an eye or two out for? Emily On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider >> [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, >> [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. >> >> We're looking for someone to update the GNOME Foundation wikipedia >> page with accurate information. >> >> When someone does this, could she also please make sure it says "free >> software" or "free/libre software", not "open source"? And if it >> refers to the GNU/Linux system, it should not call the system "Linux". >> > > Sure. > >> -- >> Dr Richard Stallman >> President, Free Software Foundation >> 51 Franklin St >> Boston MA 02110 >> USA >> www.fsf.org www.gnu.org >> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. >> Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. >> > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [worldof]gnome forums
Yes its vanilla forums. I've been busy and haven't checked in in week or two and it appears most of the spam didn't start till ~the end of sept/beginning of oct. There's (unfortuantly) no easy, quick way to delete multiple posts at once :( Having forums that were actively maintained by gnome would be nice, but that's been flat out refused multiple times. I'd be happy to assist with official forums, as I have with these, but thats never been an option and has in fact been flat out refused. On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:01 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > I can tell you from experience that this forum software can be very easy for > boys to post to. It looks like Vanilla. I have been on a very well manned > forum that got a bad spam infection, two of us spent days cleaning it up > after we blocked the attack vector. > > Forums really need a lot of care, and boys are a lot faster than humans. > > Cheers, > Dave. > > On Oct 18, 2013 11:40 PM, "Sriram Ramkrishna" wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Christian Schaller >> wrote: >> > Any explanation for why the forum is so unmaintained? I mean I am sure >> > it >> > would be possible to get community volunteers to help clean it up. >> > >> >> Probably a lack of active volunteers. I didn't remember it being this >> bad. It can work if we get a large enough volunteer pool who are >> willing ot do spam filtering and also a better infrastructure. >> >> It isn't worth putting the effort unless we can at least get a minimal >> of 5-6 volunteers to manage the forums. >> >> sri >> >> > >> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Andrea Veri wrote: >> >> >> >> The worldofgnome.org's domain was renewed a few minutes ago and it >> >> should >> >> be live again soon. >> >> >> >> cheers, >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/10/15 Andrea Veri >> >>> >> >>> I was suggested to give [1] a try and honestly speaking it really >> >>> looks >> >>> like a good alternative to the current forums at worldofgnome.org with >> >>> a big >> >>> plus: the platform will be maintained by the GNOME Sysadmin Team and >> >>> possibly by a team of moderators. >> >>> >> >>> As a note seems the worldofgnome.org's domain wasn't renewed in time >> >>> and >> >>> the website went down, I'll try and poke Alex about that asap. >> >>> >> >>> cheers, >> >>> >> >>> [1] http://www.discourse.org/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 2013/10/14 Christian Persch >> >> Hi; >> >> we seem to promote forums.worldofgnome.org as our (semi?)official >> forums: we link to it from the homepage of https://wiki.gnome.org/ >> under >> 'Communication', and also, more importantly, allow it to use the >> GNOME >> logo. >> >> However, those forums are overrun with spam: >> >> - *All* of the 'popular tags' (as seen on the right hand sidebar on >> the >> forums) are spam words. >> >> - Looking at the list of all 'discussions' at >> http://forums.worldofgnome.org/discussions shows that the content >> itself is all spam, as well. >> >> So those forums are of no use to our users. Therefore, I think >> we should remove the link from wiki.g.o to the forums, and we should >> rethink their authorisation to use the GNOME logo. >> >> Regards, >> Christian >> ___ >> foundation-list mailing list >> foundation-list@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> >> >>> Andrea >> >>> >> >>> Debian Developer, >> >>> Fedora / EPEL packager, >> >>> GNOME Sysadmin, >> >>> GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman >> >>> >> >>> Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> Andrea >> >> >> >> Debian Developer, >> >> Fedora / EPEL packager, >> >> GNOME Sysadmin, >> >> GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman >> >> >> >> Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> foundation-list mailing list >> >> foundation-list@gnome.org >> >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list >> >> >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > foundation-list mailing list >> > foundation-list@gnome.org >> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list >> > >> ___ >> foundation-list mailing list >> foundation-list@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything t
Re: plans for FOSDEM 2014?
I'd be happy to help run the booth again. I'd need funding, as always, but would be happy to come and help out. I can assist with booth details as needed, though someone else would have to bring the box(es). Emily On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tobias Mueller wrote: > hi. > > On 15.08.2013 11:02, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > > I know that the FOSDEM organisers haven't sent out the email for booths > > and/rooms yet, but I just wanted to ask well in advance if we had > > volunteers for either. > Thanks for catching that. Let's ask marketing (CCed). > I might not be able to dedicate as much time for FOSDEM as I used to in > the last couple of years, so it'd be good to know that we'll have enough > people that care. > > Cheers, > Tobi > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: "Boston" Summit 2013?
Portland would be awesome in my book! :) On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:15 PM, meg ford wrote: > +1 for Portland. > > Meg Ford > > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > >> Yes, I think I can take care of logistics if people are interested. If >> people want to take my suggestion seriously I will make a bid. >> >> There are a lot of places that provide "hacker areas" in Portland. >> Definitely downtown portland would be the right place for this. Some place >> centralized where we can also enjoy the city. >> >> sri >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 2013-04-23 at 13:43 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: >>> > Portland! It's just like Boston, but on the other side of the coast! >>> :D >>> >>> People whine a lot there. It could either an opportunity or a problem. >>> >>> Where would it be? Would you take care of the logistic there? >>> >>> -- >>> Germán Poo-Caamaño >>> http://calcifer.org/ >>> >> >> >> ___ >> foundation-list mailing list >> foundation-list@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list >> >> > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: jabber.gnome.org: a proposal
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Shaun McCance wrote: > Hi all, > > I think it's clear from the recent thread that most people had > no idea we had a Jabber server, or that they could get accounts > on it, or how to go about doing so. > > What's more, over the last week, I tried to help two people use > their jabber.gnome.org accounts with no success. > > I think it's unfair to judge the popularity of this service when > it has been so buried and so extremely difficult to use. > > It also seems we can't create group chats on jabber.gnome.org, > which limits our ability to use it as an official channel for > GNOME teams. > > I propose that we address these issues to give Jabber a fair > shake. We can then reevaluate its popularity in six months. > > -- > Shaun > > Sounds like a plan to me - count me in the group that didn't know we had a jabber service, and would like to know how to get a (working) account :) Emily > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME Quarterly Reports
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Andre Klapper wrote: > On Sun, 2012-12-16 at 12:45 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: >> On 12/15/2012 04:47 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: >> > On Sun, 2012-10-14 at 20:40 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: >> >> As feedback is often slow (needs several times of nagging) I'd like to >> >> know if quarterly reports are still supported and wanted by the >> >> community, or if we should think of a better format (e.g. merging with >> >> news or journal activities). >> > >> > No answers, so I guess there is no interest. >> >> I don't think that's a fair assumption. Perhaps it means our current way >> of doing them is not successful, and we need to try something else. > > We should try, and you've made good proposals in the past. > I'd be happy to see them discussed, together with the responsibility of > leading such efforts. I think making Quarterly Reports more interesting & accessible makes a lot of sense - whether that means rolling them into a magazine-type feature, or something else I'm not sure. Essentially making them less technical so that people outside the community find them interesting and worth reading. Right now, I wonder how many people read them - they were a great help in putitng the annual report together last year, but otherwise don't seem to be read or used by much of anyone. Emily > > andre > -- > Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net > http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
Theres the forthcoming "PengPod" (www.pengpod.com). I'm not 100% sure that its entirely free, but it sounds as though it may be. On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > This is especially true given that there is NO tablet that can run a > > completely free operating system. Only desktop and laptop machines > > This is not quite true. The options are very limited and in some cases > you cannot use all the hardware (often the 3D acceleration) but there are > a few such devices which are as free as a PC > > Can you tell me more? I will ask people to check them out; I will be > glad if there are things people could manage to use in freedom > somehow, even if we can't endorse them because some functionality > doesn't work. > > Some of the Atom N450/5 type PC tablet devices also support free 3D > graphics, although battery life is generally very poor on this generation > of hardware compared with the recent stuff. > > Could you tell me any specific models? > > > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Alan Cox wrote: >> > Lets be intellectually honest - a command line client editor is *NOT* >> > user-friendly. >> >> I don't agree at all with this assessment: it depends entirely on the >> audience it is targeting. > > If the goal is freedom then presumably the goal is freedom for all not > freedom for the special elite who speak gconf. > >> because the amount of available options is, currently, not something >> that should even be exposed; applications use the settings machinery >> to save state, as well as user preferences, and that should not be >> exposed to any user - including the one of tinkering tendencies. > > Why not ? > >> that is not entirely our decision, considering that GNOME is currently >> shipped by distributions downstream of us. the most that GNOME as >> project can do is saying the the tweak tool is part of the project. > > The tweak tool is not integrated. > > If you look at say a modern digital TV - which is a product that > notoriously has to deal with everyone from the totally tech clueless to > the video nuts who want to hand adjust everything then it is all in the > settings. > > Most of it you don't notice because there are usually options in the > settiings that basically look like > > Audio Balance: Standard Clear Voice User Defined > > and only if someone goes and selects user defined does the page of > configuration material actually show itself. That's good design because > it is discoverable, it is easy to back away from and also because it > means the user defined settings can be fiddled with and are not lost when > you flip back to a safe default. Rather they are kept and flipping back > to user defined goes back to them as left. > > Much of this stuff in Gnome IMHO belongs in settings in that same kind of > way. > > My TV is insanely configurable, but while I personally don't fiddle with > the configuration much it doesn't get in the way. At worst the user > experience is a one off > > "I wonder what 'user defined' is > click > ooh not what I wanted > click" > > and only while exploring the settings by choice Exactly. This is what most browsers do now as well - they have a 'preferences' with very basic, standard things (much as we have in settings currently). Then theres a little button for "advanced" - and then you get all sorts of settings for all manner of things. Why can't we integrate much of whats in dconf & tweak-tool into settings in 'advanced' or 'custom' sections? > >> as a personal opinion, I don't agree that the tweak tool should be >> installed by default; it can be pointed out in the documentation as a >> way to get more options, but it's really up to the user to decide >> whether or not she should install it. the user experience should stand >> by itself. > > Well it doesn't - clearly as is evidenced by the fact people are forking > it and shipping the forks in major distros. > > Alan -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > hi Dave; > > On 28 November 2012 13:57, Dave Neary wrote: And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners without a UI, and even the basic stuff only by an add on (tweak tool) you'll continue to fail to empower users to modify their computing environment. >>> >>> >>> yes, because we all know that Freedom means Tweaking configuration >>> options, or *having* to modify your environment in order for it to >>> work. >> >> >> Is that what Alan said? Sensible defaults and UIless options are two >> different things. I'd argue that an UIless option is just as much of a fudge >> as an option in the UI - if there's no UI for it, why is it an option? Just >> use the default & remove the code paths handling the option. > > you probably missed the fact that there is a UI for the options. it's > an optional UI exactly because the default is sensible and should be > enough — unless you're planning to tinker with it, in which case the > UI is available to you. there are actually *three* UIs: > > - the gsettings command line client; > - the dconf-editor UI client; > - the "tweak" UI client; > > with the first one being the one shipped by default. Lets be intellectually honest - a command line client editor is *NOT* user-friendly. Having two other editors to edit various things doesn't make sense - why can't everything be shipped in the *same* UI client? And why can't it be shipped by default? Whats wrong with that? I love GNOME by-and-large the way it ships, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with those who do not. When we make changes to the shell hard for the average end-user we effectively clamp down on choice. If thats not our intention, then we need to figure out how we are going to make basic changes to the environment accessible. > > as opposed to the days of GNOME 2.x, the tweak UI tool is actually > maintained, hosted on git.gnome.org, released along with the rest of > GNOME, and designed by the GNOME design team. but, obviously, having > three maintained UIs for settings, an extension mechanism that blows > out of the water anything that was ever available in GNOME 2.x, is a > clear regression for whosoever decides to tinker with GNOME. oh, no, > wait: it's not, and I'd appreciated if people at least had the > intellectual honesty and the good grace to acknowledge this bit of > history, instead of throwing accusations and wildly inappropriate > conspiracy theories around. > > by the way, I always assumed that my ability to tinker with GNOME was > a right guaranteed and enforced by the license we use, not by having > UI to toggle options; I probably missed the memo. > >> To put it another way: You don't have to weld to hood shut to sell someone a >> functional car. > > this metaphor is *so* wrong, and on so many levels, it's not even > funny, and I would have expected far more from you Dave. > > ciao, > Emmanuele. > > -- > W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name > B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
Good point... perhaps make it a seperate app then? Just call it "About GNOME" that way anytime you open up the applications over view its the first listing. Give it a GNOME foot logo, and write it in Python & GTK+3 (or similar basic languages) so its simple to update and edit as needed. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote: > On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 13:38 -0500, Emily Gonyer wrote: >> Why not just include an "About GNOME" section in System Settings > > It would be a start, but some down sides might be - > . administrators locking away access to "about gnome" > . people not thinking to look in a configuration tool for information on > the project as a whole. > > >> we can talk about these sorts of things - about software freedom and >> what it means. About DRM and why we don't include tools to allow its >> use, and why free formats like OGG are preferable. We could have >> multiple tabs: One about GNOME, another about DRM, another about >> software freedom generally and then a third with copies of the various >> free software licenses and explanations of them (ie GPL, LGPL, BSD, >> etc). >> > This is going in a good direction, as long as it gets simplified after > consensus on what to include ;-) It should include other important > goals, such as universal access (accessibility, internationalisation, > working on as many devices as possible and on lower-end devices)... > > Liam > > -- > Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ > Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ > Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
Why not just include an "About GNOME" section in System Settings where we can talk about these sorts of things - about software freedom and what it means. About DRM and why we don't include tools to allow its use, and why free formats like OGG are preferable. We could have multiple tabs: One about GNOME, another about DRM, another about software freedom generally and then a third with copies of the various free software licenses and explanations of them (ie GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc). Emily On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote: > On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 09:44 -0800, Lefty wrote: > >> Mr. Stallman thinks [...] > > Please let's not have personal attacks on the foundation list. > > The GPL does not prohibit making money; it seeks to prohibit people from > profiting by withholding knowledge from others. > > Let's get back to the questions of how to make the GNOME desktop prod > bottoms, as the Americans say, and of how best to communicate the goals > to people. > > Actually I think Richard made a really helpful suggestion - a screen > built in to the desktop that explains the goals. Can the desktop by > default at least have such a document on it for people to read? > > Regards, > > Liam > > -- > Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ > Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
I agree completely. However, that doesn't mean we should make it purposefully *hard* to get those things. Should we warn people? Absolutely. They should know what they are doing and be informed. But that doesn't mean we need to make it hard, and certainly not on purpose. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:53 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > >Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or > > Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who > pay > > for such services. How many average people would purchase a device > > that did not support such tools? > > > > Is this a real issue? On a free operating system, developers can > > implement whatever they wish. And users can install it if they wish. > > Most commercial products that work with video require non-free codecs. > While users may do what they wish, installing free software that > implements non-free codecs may be considered a crime in some places. > > This seems to be a disconnect of subject. Before, you were talking > about support for Skype. The only company that might plausibly > implement a program for Skype on GNU/Linux is Skype. > > So my response is about that. If Skype wants to implement its > snooping-enabled nofree software on GNU/Linux, it can do so, and users > can install it if they wish. > > Like any nonfree software, this would be unethical, but I see no reason > why it would be a crime. > > My point is that we must not do _anything_ that could be construed as > recommending that nonfree software, and that includes "integrating" > it. Our duty, rather than integrating nonfree software, is to > differentiate it -- not do anything that would grant it ethical > legitimacy. > > The same applies to DRM software, which I supposed would be > implemented by the same companies that use the DRM, if at all. This > too would be proprietary software, and malicious too, so we must not > do anything that would grant it ethical legitimacy. > > Of course, writing free software to break DRM is a good thing to do. > Since some states which treat their citizens as enemies persecute > such software, GNOME would not be directly involved with it. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
First up, I know my post is likely out of order, but I'm not sure how to correct that... I'm reading and replying to the first post by Seif in the archive... Anyhow.. So Seif's three questions were/are: [1] Where’s the product going? [2] What problem are we trying to solve? [3] How are we going to do that? My responses: [1] Our product is GNOME, and we're aiming to be the best free desktop around. [2] We're trying to figure out how to regain the respect of the wider FOSS community, many of whom currently feel (rightly or wrongly) alienated, disrespected and ignored. [3] By encouraging users new and old to begin contributing whenever and however they can, and by respecting and appreciating their thoughts and contributions whenever they occur. Emily -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
GNOME Annual Report
Hi there, its now December of 2011 and the GNOME Annual Report is due in the coming months. As such, we are requesting the help of any and all interested persons. We especially need help with writing articles & possibly designing presentations and making videos as well (we're kicking around using a multi-faceted approach to the annual report, with a downloadable PDF file as well as online videos & other content - thoughts?). Juanjo Marin, Karen Sandler & I are currently working on the report but we cannot do this alone! Please help us get the annual report out in a timely fashion! Emily Gonyer -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
