Re: Private Foundation-List Petition for referendum

2009-12-14 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Behdad Esfahbod

 [/me removes board hat]

 Hi everyone,

 I like to ask for your support in my petition for referendum to make
 foundation-list archives private and membership limited to actual
 Foundation members.  If we make that change we would be able to discuss
 matters freely without making lots of news that more often than not are
 harmful to our image to the world in general.

 Please sign here:  http://live.gnome.org/PrivateFoundationListPetition

 We would need 35 to 40 signatures to put this to vote.

Changing the existing foundation-list to private: I would hate to see the
GNOME community move towards non-transparency largely due to the efforts of
an ambulance-chasing trollumnist, and no other credible media (because
they rightly don't regard any of this as news). Don't over-compensate
because an idiot with a platform got his latest non-story about Open Source
people and arguments onto Slashdot (of all places).

New private mailing list for Foundation members: Much like gnome-private of
yore, everyone will still chatter on the public list because it's easier and
more useful to post there, and practically impossible to move threads away
from the public list once they've started. By all means, rename the unused
gnome-private to foundation-private, but I'm sure it'll stay as dead as it
has for *years* now.


So a sensible discussion was run off the rails by argumentative boofheads --
happens all the time, and most of the adults in the GNOME community know who
the boofheads are (which is why practically the entire board didn't pay
attention to the thread until it went off the rails; unfortunate, but there
it is).

Everyone should be embarrassed by momentary lapses of sanity like this. But
it has happened before, it'll happen again, and it barely registers on the
radar compared to the great work being done towards GNOME's mission.


Remember your priorities and carry on. None of this is worth your time.

- Jeff

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Re: board meeting quasi-minutes, May 14th and 21st, 2008

2008-06-04 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Gregory Leblanc

 On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The board had meetings on the 14th and 21st to discuss a confidential
  matter which the board hopes to disclose in the near future. No minutes
  were taken because of the confidential nature of the meetings,
 
 No minutes were taken at all, or none will be posted for now? This seems
 like it could be a bad thing, but I'll reserve any further comment until I
 see what happens once this matter presents itself.

Notes were taken for a particular purpose, but these were not conventional
(or official) meetings of the board which required minuting. Luis brought
them up here because we felt it was important to mention that we had the 
meetings, and at least one of these replaced a regular board meeting. When
the item comes to fruition, it will be raised, decided and minuted in an
official board meeting. This will be soon. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Johannes Schmid

 Sorry, to step into this discussion, but I would really like to point out
 that every part of the world may have a gnome conference, even an
 important or *the* GNOME conference. But why can we keep GUADEC the
 european conference?
 
 If you want to do a GUAD*C at any other place of the world, I am fully ok
 with that but let's keep one GNOME conference in europe as there is a huge
 community there.

100% agree. This is the principle that underlines my (apparently now noted)
conservatism on this issue... and why GNOME.conf.au exists. :-)

 Nevertheless, we would need some host applications anyway, before we can
 discuss the place further.

Ahoy! Get those applications in, mateys!

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Claudio Saavedra

 I currently don't like the fact that no one can even consider working in
 such a proposal.

I think it's possible, but there's little incentive to right now, because
it seems so unlikely that it would succeed. If there was a bid that might
succeed, it would be a cheap location (in terms of travel and event budget)
pushing on the boundaries of Europe. Some might suggest that Turkey fits
that description. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Thomas Thurman

 Is the rule about having GUADEC in Europe rather than, say, in Bangalore
 still in play, by the way?

The 'E' still stands for Europe, yeah. ;-)

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

 quote who=Thomas Thurman
 
  Is the rule about having GUADEC in Europe rather than, say, in Bangalore
  still in play, by the way?
 
 The 'E' still stands for Europe, yeah. ;-)

Aha, was this more in reference to the text of the CfH? In that case, it's a
minor disconnect between norms of each organisation and conference, not well
expressed in the CfH (I don't think anyone noticed it).

Speaking only for myself, not for either organisation involved in the CfH...
It would take a lot to convince me that we should hold GUADEC outside Europe
even if we had a neat GUADEC+Akademy proposal for somewhere else.

And I say that as someone who is not particularly close to Europe (let alone
anywhere else on the planet I guess). ;-)

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=BJörn Lindqvist

 Americans might feel that it is a little unfair that guadec always is in
 Europe. Couldn't there be two conferences?

GUADEC and the Boston Summit. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009

2008-04-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Clare So

 Where in the world with the highest concentration of GNOME and KDE
 community? This thread has so far been considering the GNOME community
 only.

Both communities have their strongest presence in Europe.

- Jeff

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Re: Minutes for Directors Meeting of Feb. 27th, 2008

2008-04-21 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
 
 No further proof needed...

The Reply-To header was actually set to your own address, not to that of the
list. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Minutes for Directors Meeting of Feb. 27th, 2008

2008-04-21 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

  No further proof needed...
 
 The Reply-To header was actually set to your own address, not to that of the
 list. :-)

[ Dave points out that the offending Reply-To was of course on the announce
list email. While entirely intentional, and more effective than setting the
Mail-Followup-To header, it certainly engages the no-opt-out damage pointed
out in 'Reply-To Considered Harmful'. Anyone moderating a GNOME announce
list will know, however, that even that doesn't stop people from replying to
the announcement mailing lists. ;-) ]

- Jeff

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Re: Ga-nome or NOME

2008-02-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Ani Peter

 I have heard a lot of people pronouncing GNOME as Ga-nome and I feel Nome
 is the correct pronunciation.
 
 Appreciate if someone please advise me which is the correct pronunciation.

When folks ask me about this at conferences and such, I always say, doesn't
matter how you pronounce it, as long as you love using it, quickly followed
up with, but GNOME developers say 'guh-nome' because the 'G' comes from the
'GNU' project. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Re-considering expectnation web service

2007-12-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Baris Cicek

 Some people also suggested expectnation[1] web service, which is backed by
 Edd Dumbill. Followers of Planet GNOME would remember his blog posts about
 it.

Much as I love Edd and his approach to the creation of expectnation, I think
it would be awkward for us to use non-Free software where Free software can
be used, particularly in such a public role (there are other cases for which
I would be willing to use non-Free software for GNOME-related stuff, so this
is not just wild ideological handwaving).

We could implement the software used for linux.conf.au over the last couple
of years, which includes paper submission, review and delegate registration,
and has been integrated with two different content mangement systems, so we
could continue using Drupal, or switch to Moin or possibly even Plone. That
would be a great way of supporting a Free Software ecosystem as well as
satisfying our needs. :-)

There are also various things we could do with Drupal, simple and sufficient
for our needs, that might be better than what we already have.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-12-14 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Federico Mena Quintero

 What I want to resolve is this:

So do I, as already noted.

 Sucking guidelines out of my head --- that's exactly the kind of problem
 we need to solve.

That's why I mentioned it.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-12-14 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Og Maciel

 Federico,
 
 Thank you for spearheading this.

Please don't turn this into something it is not. I had already been working
on this before threads on this list, and before Federico's recent mails. It
is not particularly motivating to see the issue approached in this way.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-12-14 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Federico Mena Quintero

 But please don't ignore the question I asked:
 
 Who's on the potential maintainership team for PGO, so that we may
 inquire them about the progress?

Sorry, but I'm not going to get caught up in pointless crap like this. Some
folks may think it's okay to treat me differently as a result of attempted
character assassination, but you should know better Federico.

I've already said -- before your emails and after them -- that I'm writing
down the guidelines and will have a maintainership team in order to resolve
the minor maintenance issues with Planet GNOME. The potential co-maintainers
have already had experience doing so, and were asked months ago.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-12-14 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Julien PUYDT

 You've been asked to be more open, don't get annoyed if people are pissed
 by closed non-answers!

I'm mostly annoyed at the attitude rather than the questions (even the ones
that have already been answered). I don't really feel an obligation to give
answers to people who have negative intent, which I know many onlookers can
appreciate. I'm writing an email now that will resolve some of these issues,
with the knowledge that nothing will satisfy those who want negativity more
than they want resolution. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-12-13 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Federico Mena Quintero

  It's somewhat more intricate than that -- I'm writing it up atm, so
  people can understand the decision making process (guidelines). That's
  the first step. :-)
 
 Ping.  Any progress on this, so the editorial policy can be linked from
 Planet?
 
 Also, Dave's idea about having a co-maintainer for Planet didn't get any
 replies:
 http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2007-September/msg00103.html
 
 When a code module's maintainership is sucking, what we do is let someone
 else take over.  The planet-web module shouldn't be an exception.
 
 [Yes, I'm volunteering for the co-maintainer position of Planet.]

I missed this at the bottom of the thread. Thanks for pointing it out to me
on IRC.

The module's maintainership isn't sucking in general, but there have been a
number of periods in which it hasn't been great. Please don't make this out
to be worse than it is, that kind of approach doesn't help resolve anything.

I've spoken to potential maintainership team members who already have direct
experience with pgo maintenance, and have been working on sucking guidelines
out of my head and into publishable form. What you're asking for is already
on the way.

Thanks,

- Jeff

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Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-12-02 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Richard Stallman

 I don't recall that any candidate explicily rejected supporting the free
 software movement by means other than improving the attractiveness and
 success of GNOME.  But several candidates answered in a way that seemed to
 pointedly imply a rejection of any such form of support for the community.

I answered about the success of GNOME, mostly because I didn't read what you
now raise as the point of your original question.

- Jeff

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Re: Question for the candidates [Was: Re: Money spending, questions for the candidates]

2007-11-30 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Elijah Newren

 What will you as a candidate do to make sure we avoid this mess in the
 future?

Work with the Membership Committee to document their practices and make sure
they perform them more consistently in future years.

During the current term, I have already made that you won't have to deal
with this again for 18 months. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Question for the candidates [Was: Re: Money spending, questions for the candidates]

2007-11-30 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

 Work with the Membership Committee to document their practices and make
 sure they perform them more consistently in future years.

Miss one word and it changes the entire tone... and help make sure. They
have done a great job this year, though as a result of numerous changes to
the volunteer team a couple of things have been dropped on the floor (such
as question gathering from the community and linking to the election rules
in the announcement). Easy to fix for the future.

It's generally a pretty thankless task, so... thanks to the membership
committee! :-)

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-30 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Shaun McCance

 And all of this could have been explained just as simply if the folks at
 boycottnovell.com had simply emailed us and asked for details, instead of
 posting unsubstantiated drivel.

Pretty much the crux of the issue with that website. Despite transparency
into the community that they would never get with companies, they do not
actually do any primary research, and have come up with some doozies about
things they simply don't understand.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

 I think you're way too harsh on people who actually concluded things like:

Sorry, but the negativity of that site greatly outweighs the positive. It
takes more than a little sucking up to earn back my respect after the crap
they've been spewing.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

  Yelp has had an optional Beagle dependency for at least 2 years. It's
  optional, and it's not news.
 
 We need a new RPM in some distributions, as optional dependencies are not
 part of current RPM in Fedora, for instance :)

libbeagle does not depend on Mono. Perhaps, if the Fedora RPM of libbeagle
actually depends on Mono, it needs to be fixed.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Bastien Nocera

  libbeagle does not depend on Mono. Perhaps, if the Fedora RPM of
  libbeagle actually depends on Mono, it needs to be fixed.

 It doesn't.

I am Jack's abject lack of surprise. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Richard Stallman

 The reason this is not so is that Microsoft is trying to spin the apparent
 support of GNOME into proof that OOXML is not bad for free software.

Microsoft haven't done so publicly thus far, but the risk is there, and we
will endeavour to make it absolutely clear that our participation does not
imply endorsement, contribution or support. We've taken one step already
with our statement on our participation, and you are sure to see more in the
future.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Joe Shaw

 It's been frustrating over the past few years that GNOME hasn't taken a
 firm position on the issue.

Agree.

 I suspect there hasn't been anything firm because (a) there is quite a bit
 of division within the community on the issue and (b) there is some
 element of walking on eggshells around Novell and its endorsement of the
 environment.

Agree.

Also, I think much of the issue has moved on from legal paranoia to concerns
about adopting a strategy perceived as Microsoft-friendly (at least among
those who don't adopt a knee-jerk, black-and-white approach to such issues).

 I agree this isn't really something that the foundation can force, but
 even asking politely in an official capacity would be a step in the
 right direction.

The Foundation asking politely of developers with regards to their choices,
or Novell (or any developer advocating Mono) asking politely of the GNOME
Foundation with regards to a policy? My feeling on past discussions about
this at the Foundation (or Advisory Board) level is that it has been other
participants, not generally Novell, that have pursued the discussion. Maybe
Novell raising the issue would be a good thing.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Og Maciel

 On Nov 29, 2007 5:40 PM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   If these programs are important enough to deserve the term miss out
   on, then I think they should be written in another language.

Note that the above quote is misattributed, and was stated by Richard, not
me.

- Jeff

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Re: On Boston Summit organization and delegation [was Re: A question to candidates]

2007-11-28 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Behdad Esfahbod

 But if you look, I asked for help about Boston Summit on the boston-social
 list as early as June:
 
   http://mail.gnome.org/archives/boston-social/2007-June/msg0.html
 
 and got no reply. I mailed at least three Boston residents directly and
 got no reply either. And I gave up and Jeff ended up doing it all the way
 from Australia. It was going well until the *reserved venue* got
 canceled...

Thanks for pointing that out - but I do want to stress again that Zana and
Owen saved the day when all else failed, and we should be very grateful to
them (not that you're forgetting them, I just wanted to say thanks again).

We have to wait until January to book the usual venue at MIT, so I hope J5
(elected or not - formalities, formalities) can adopt that task and pursue
it vigorously! :-)

- Jeff

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Re: On Boston Summit organization and delegation [was Re: A question to candidates]

2007-11-28 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Ghee Teo

 Have the board paused and thought why the Summit has to be Boston? Is it
 because most hackers work around Boston? May be it was the case.

Because there's a critical mass of developers there -- most of both the Red
Hat and Novell desktop teams.

- Jeff

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Re: On Boston Summit organization and delegation [was Re: A question to candidates]

2007-11-28 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

 quote who=Ghee Teo
 
  Have the board paused and thought why the Summit has to be Boston? Is it
  because most hackers work around Boston? May be it was the case.
 
 Because there's a critical mass of developers there -- most of both the
 Red Hat and Novell desktop teams.

Dan Winship points out on IRC that while this was true when the Boston
Summit was created, there aren't a lot of Novell desktop hackers left in
Boston these days. Perhaps a roaming Columbus Day weekend conference (still
in the USA) would be a good thing?

- Jeff

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Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-28 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Gregory Leblanc

 While this is all technically true, I think it's somewhat misleading,
 based on my recollections, and what I could find in a brief browse of
 the mailing list archives.
 There was much clearer leadership in the community then, but I do not
 believe that the community came to a conclusion that we would cede
 development of a GNOME office to OpenOffice.org.  My impression of what
 happened was more that the community never got a cohesive and
 self-sustaining effort going to make a GNOME Office suite happen.

It certainly wasn't a consensus, or a clear decision, but the energy of
popular thought in the community along with decreased investment led to us
ceding our office/productivity leadership at the time to OpenOffice.org. We
were actually well ahead, but OpenOffice.org had the weight of existing
features, code and commercial interest. Thinking about it in those terms, I
regret it even more.

- Jeff

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Re: two questions for candidates

2007-11-27 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

 quote who=Richard Stallman
 
  1. Would you change anything in the GNOME Foundation statement about
  OOXML?
 
 I'd probably include a message about not fighting OOXML on political
 grounds because they have no impact on the ISO standardisation process. To
 succeed, we need to fight OOXML under the terms defined by ISO, which
 means nuking it as hard was we possibly can on technical grounds.

Actually, a very important point, which I'm not just saying because this is
a reply to a question from Richard... :-)

What I *wouldn't* change in our statement is that the number 1 point in our
position statement was Software Freedom, and that our final comment was to
encourage people to contribute to Software Freedom.

That's important because ultimately, whatever goes on with standards and
their impact on our industry, *our* number 1 priority is Software Freedom,
and making sure our users can access it, use it and enjoy it.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Elections 2007. Let's start the debate!

2007-11-26 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 Jeff is right: it's not all rollercoasters and martinis. There's ice cream
 too.

I heartily endorse this strategy. /quimby

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/garrett/858313114/

- Jeff

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Re: two questions for candidates

2007-11-26 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Richard Stallman

 1. Would you change anything in the GNOME Foundation statement about
 OOXML?

I'd probably include a message about not fighting OOXML on political grounds
because they have no impact on the ISO standardisation process. To succeed,
we need to fight OOXML under the terms defined by ISO, which means nuking it
as hard was we possibly can on technical grounds.

 2. How do you think the GNOME Foundation should support the Free
 Software Movement in general?

By creating rocking Free Software that is easy to use, accessible and usable
for users around the world, whether they're ubergeeks or neophytes. :-) The
phrase I use that I think best illustrates GNOME's values in this regard is:

  Software Freedom is not just for geeks!

:-)

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

2007-11-25 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=jamie

 I can see MS spinning this to their advantage and I believe playing safe
 here would be better for us in the short term

Thing is, Microsoft haven't spun it to their advantage. They've mentioned
that Gnumeric is implementing OOXML, but that actually works against them
(due to the complexity of the spec and the completeness of the impl). They
haven't spun our membership of TC45-M to their advantage, and they won't,
because we're not their friends, and won't react kindly if they do. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

2007-11-25 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=jamie

 In any event I dont understand why the gnome foundation was pulled into
 this - cant you do your work with ECMA without foundation backing?

As explained in the statement, the GNOME Foundation joined ECMA as a
non-profit to allow Jody to continue his work sucking the documentation
blood from Microsoft's stone.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

2007-11-25 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=jamie

 On Mon, 2007-11-26 at 04:45 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
  quote who=jamie
  
   In any event I dont understand why the gnome foundation was pulled
   into this - cant you do your work with ECMA without foundation
   backing?
  
  As explained in the statement, the GNOME Foundation joined ECMA as a
  non-profit to allow Jody to continue his work sucking the documentation
  blood from Microsoft's stone.
 
 I know but that does not answer my question - could jody do this without
 foundation backing?

No, of course not.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

2007-11-24 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

 The more you guys keep playing the neutral game, the more you'll get
 abused like this.

There is no neutral game being played here. Concerns were raised that the
GNOME Foundation's participation in EMCA TC45-M suggested that we supported
OOXML becoming an ISO standard. Thus, the answer was simple: We do not.

- Jeff

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Re: Candidacy: Jeff Waugh

2007-11-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Andrew Cowie

 On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 06:34 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
 
   * This year has been pretty tough for me as a Board member, as I've
   been starting a new business which has required a lot of time, I have
   been travelling a lot, and conference calls have been at a particularly
   bad time for me in Sydney.
 
 Do you have a plan to deal with the situation this coming year?

Sorry, missed this mail until now... Yeah, I think the situation this year
is different in a number of ways:

 * I'm not organising linux.conf.au this time around, and I failed to
   realise how much an impact that really had on almost the first half of
   last year.

 * There were some extremely demotivating personal issues in the GNOME
   community that I had to contend with last year, which led to a fairly
   long period of depression (mentioned in my blog a few months back). I can
   only hope this doesn't return.

 * Finally, the nature of the work Pia and I are doing in our business is
   changing a bit from frenetic startup stuff to more regular, ongoing
   projects... and *hopefully* less travel. I totally thought that would be
   one of the benefits of leaving Canonical...

Unfortunately, I can't see the timezone thing changing too much. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: A question to candidates

2007-11-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Murray Cumming

 This is generally caused by the habit of only making decisions in
 meetings, instead of making decisions on the mailing list. And a tendency
 to think that all decisions must be unanimous.

A majority of the decisions this year were made on the mailing list, with a
quorum consensus rather than majority. Plenty slipped through, and tougher
decisions were deferred to meetings or ultimately not made, but largely due
to team coherency issues more than anything else. There were *very* few
times that the Board suffered from consensus gridlock this year, which is a
good sign.

- Jeff

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Re: A question to candidates

2007-11-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 (also I'm not sure why you mention GTK+ developers never requested a GTK+
 summit: it seems to me they did)

It's sort of in the middle -- they wanted to do one, but never really came
to the Board for support. We've always been 100% behind helping though! I'm
going to spend some time putting together a GNOME Mobile summit, which I
hope will be an appropriate venue for a GTK+ development meeting too.

- Jeff

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Re: A question to candidates

2007-11-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 What do you see as the best way to spend this money?

Getting GNOME contributors together, face-to-face, to nut out the difficult
problems that are tough to solve in a distributed fashion.

 In terms of hiring, do you prefer hiring a sysadmin, or an executive
 director?

We must have a full time staff member to manage any further hires, as there
is no way our part time administrator should have to deal with any duties
related to management. So, of the two, I'd prefer a full time, management
capable hire before a sysadmin hire. Alternatively, we can contract for the
sysadmin position. (I would not describe my priority for the first full time
hire as an executive director, either -- GNOME is not an art gallery.)

 A second question to all candidates: what do you see as the weak points of
 the current board, and how do you propose addressing those weak points?

The biggest weak point is that we were unable to function as a coherent team
for much of the past two, perhaps three, years. The major reason for this is
not going to be a problem next year (and is thus not worth discussing), the
secondary issue will be solved for the 2009-2010 Board (GUADEC at the start
of the year), and I intend to focus on team-building and goal-setting for
the first six months of the year, to get everyone focused and *ROCKING* for
the rest of the 18 month term.

- Jeff

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Re: Questions to the candidates

2007-11-22 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Anne Østergaard

 Will you apply for the position as new Executive Director for GNOME?
 Will you apply for any paid position within GNOME while serving as board
 member?

Unlikely, although I have considered it in the past. It would be foolish to
rule anything out. Enough people have asked me about it that it seems to be
in the realm of possibility.

 Will you attend at least 90% of the board calls?

I'd try, but as anyone who has been on the Board will attest (and those who
have been on the Board while living in GMT+10 and above would INSIST) it is
difficult to attend *every* meeting in between the average business, travel
and personal commitments of GNOME Board members. Hopefully the meeting time
will be somewhat more compatible with my timezone... but looking at the list
of candidates, I somewhat doubt it. ;-)

 Can you accept competing official ISO standards?

Absolutely. It is ISO's role to facilitate the development of standards in a
coherent, transparent manner, not to determine the market demand for a given
standard. I think it's extremely short-sighted to protest OOXML on the basis
of competing standards given that standards exist for technologies that we
are very likely to want true Free standards for in the future - for example,
video encoders and decoders.

 What is your position towards official standards that do not meet the
 gennerally accepted definition of a free and open standard. Such as
 Microsoft OOXML?

That is an extremely loaded question, so I can only refer to my sigquote for
the appropriate response.

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Foundation Elections 2007. Let's start the debate!

2007-11-19 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Bruno Boaventura

 [1] How much impact would being a member of the GNOME Foundation Board
 have on your current contributions to GNOME ?

Not a huge amount -- most of what I do these days is either related in some
way to the Board, or keeping things ticking as maintenance. While I've been
on the Board, I've still had the time to do large projects such as creating
blogs.gnome.org and massive repair work on our mail server.

 [2] Online Desktop and Services are being talked about as the next large
 step in GNOME - what is your vision for Online Desktop and Services and
 how would you measure them ?

GOD is only one of the many interesting opportunities we have right now, so
I think there's a broader conversation to have here -- but it's also mostly
outside the scope of what the Foundation does.

GOD raises some interesting questions for the Foundation though, which I've
commented on at GUADEC and on this list in the past: Should the Foundation
start hosting services? What can we provide that supports our community and
commercial ecosystem, without creating unnecessary competition?

I want the Foundation to play a role here, but we have to figure out just
what that is going to be -- where the GOD developers have an idea that is
unrealistic without some kind of central support, I want them to know they
can lean on the Foundation. I don't want our software to suffer because we
don't have the organisational cajones to support great ideas. :-)

 [3] What are the SMART goals that you desire to set for yourself should
 you be elected to the Board ?

Is 'SMART' a management acronym of some kind, or capitalised for emphasis? I
wasn't expecting candidates to suggest DUMB goals... ;-) I think I'll answer
this in question [8].

 [4] If you were part of the GNOME Board last year and a candidate again,
 what would you like to put as your achievements as a Board member ?

They may seem small, but I'm very glad to have fixed two outstanding issues
with the operation of the GNOME Foundation: The position of 'President' has
been held by someone who has not had an active role in the Foundation for a
long time -- we've now established the convention that the President of the
GNOME Foundation will be an elected director playing substantially the same
role we've referred to as 'Chairman' for years. I also pursued a change to
our bylaws that results in the next Board term starting with a face-to-face
meeting at GUADEC. Towards the end of the year I've done quite a bit of
outreach to companies considering participation in GNOME and the Foundation
(which hopefully makes up for the start of the year when I was pretty burnt
out after linux.conf.au 2007 -- I keep forgetting about that black hole).

 [5] Do you think it is important to mentor and coach potential leaders in
 the GNOME community ? If yes, what do you think the role of the Board be
 in this task ? If no, what are your thoughts on this ?

Yes, in both technology and community roles. I have some thoughts about how
we can do better with technology mentorship, but they are not relevant to my
candidacy (because the Foundation does not play a role in the technical side
of the project other than handling emergencies and resolving disputes).

Next year, I want to involve more contributors in Foundation activities as
delegates of the Board, responsible for particular tasks or projects for
the community. We've dabbled in this a bit in the past, but always in a very
casual kind of way. I want to pursue it in a more robust fashion, ensuring
that contributors are involved in things like the Board conference calls, to
report on their activities and be a part of the team.

If we make a real effort to do this well, we can grow the number of people
who are contributing in community roles, and who might want to run for the
Board in the future. I do see it as essentially a mentoring opportunity.

 [6] Some of the tasks of a Board Member are mundane administrative tasks,
 are you comfortable taking on such tasks as opposed to being always
 involved in strategic and visionary thinking ?

Yeah. Half my GNOME time is spent doing the relatively mundane anyway. :-)

 [7] What or which according to you, is the one tipping point move for
 GNOME in the coming year ?

For GNOME in general I think the dovetailing of so much work in disparate
little related projects is going to make one of 2.22-2.26 *really* shine.
More needs to be done to encourage this dovetailing -- we need to be more
proactive about it.

For the GNOME Foundation (which is what is important here), I think that
making a artful hire within the next 12-18 months may have a huge impact on
the resources we have to hand, and our commercial ecosystem (whether that
means the traditional big players or the recent influx of smaller companies
involved in GNOME). I say artful because I strongly believe we can't rush
in and hire just anyone so we can claim to have a warm body -- we need
someone who can bring a very different skill set 

Re: Candidacy Announcement for the 2007 GNOME Board Election: George Kraft

2007-11-16 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=George Kraft

 On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 02:49 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
  No director represents their affiliation -- they're elected to represent
  the GNOME Foundation membership after all -- but it must be documented
  (least of all because of the maximum representation rule).
 
 Should I repost to foundation-list and election with the correction, or is
 this discussion thread good enough?

Probably best to request that the membership committee fix it where it is
published as information to eligible voters in the future. You could reply
to the foundation-announce mail with a correction, but it's probably a bit
of overkill.

- Jeff

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Re: Candidacy Announcement for the 2007 GNOME Board Election: George Kraft

2007-11-15 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=George Kraft

  Great to see you running.  So, you are not with IBM anymore?  In that
  case your Bio page is outdated.
 
 I still work for IBM, but I would not officially represent them with
 respect to GNOME.

No director represents their affiliation -- they're elected to represent the
GNOME Foundation membership after all -- but it must be documented (least of
all because of the maximum representation rule).

- Jeff

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Re: Help us prepare a budget for 2008!

2007-11-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

  + small meetings/hackfests:

As mentioned to the Board previously, I'd like to put a GNOME Mobile (maybe
also GTK+ if they're keen [1]) summit on the budget agenda for March/April
2008, in Europe. It's far enough away from both the Boston Summit and GUADEC
that I think this will be a good bookend event for the community. Europe
because the vast majority of our Mobile folk are there, and it's expensive
to focus on the Boston Summit for them.

Thanks,

- Jeff

[1] I hope this event can be the GTK+ summit too, but from previous talks, I
get the impression they'd like to have something pretty exclusively GTK+. I
think the natural platform focus of GNOME Mobile and our interest in pushing
GTK+ forward would make this combined event even more worthwhile -- and much
easier to fund, to boot!

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Re: Who would be a good member? [Was: About the coming election]

2007-11-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 Also, people tend to forget what they wrote in their introduction after a
 few months :-) Again, as Quim said, it's not because they're bad people.
 It's just really easy to forget the original plan when many new things
 have appeared in the meantime!
 
 (I'm sure I'd be ashamed to see I didn't do what I wrote in mine last
 year)

A couple of times we've tried to build a plan based on those statements, but
the difficulties of doing so in a thorough way over the phone or email have
made it less successful than it could be. I'm hoping the next Board can make
a better go of it, because it would be a great thing to get right at the
start of the year.

(This is why having an in-person Board meeting at the beginning of the term
is such an exciting opportunity, and why I pushed hard to make it possible
this term. No point waiting when we can fix something easily.)

- Jeff

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Re: bounties?

2007-11-06 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak

 Did the foundation come out against bounties on principal, or has the idea
 just not gone anywhere?

Given that you've read previous threads here, I'll just briefly summarise
where I think we stand with regards to bounties:

We've had some success and some failures, but ultimately it required quite a
lot of infrastructure and time to get it right, but hadn't really delivered
on expectations. There are also ongoing concerns about how the introduction
of financial incentives will affect volunteer motivation.

Hopefully that's a useful summary, and I'm sure others will chime in with
other views or additional info if necessary.

- Jeff

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Re: Executive director [was: Re: OOXML]

2007-11-06 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=David Bolter

 It is perhaps of interest to some that the Mozilla Foundation has not
 found it easy to find a new Executive Director (see
 http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/executive-director-search.html).  Note
 the Mozilla position comes with salary and benefits.  Are we thinking the
 same for GNOME?

Yes (this was the case with our previous ED too, btw), although we probably
have less room to move on that front that Mozilla. ;-) Even if you know you
want the traditional ED role filled, it's tough to find the right candidate.

- Jeff

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Who would be a good member? [Was: About the coming election]

2007-11-06 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay

 That in effect perhaps raises the important question So who would be a
 good member of the Board?.

Above all else, I hope you vote for people you know and trust to represent
what you value about GNOME. To put it in a clunky but simple way, if GNOME
is People, vote for the people who are GNOME.

- Jeff

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Re: board [was Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]]

2007-11-05 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Quim Gil

 Also, looking backwards we also see that our time and issues could have
 been invested much better.

I think that's probably true, but I strongly disagree with your examples. I
also think that with such high expectations, we can beat ourselves up pretty
badly even when we do great things. What follows on from that is bitterness,
defensiveness, and a dysfunctional group of people. We could have done a lot
better with debriefs and general meeting conversation to avoid some of this.

 What is left from the 10th anniversary? Imagine if some of that time would
 have been put in a Boston Summit planning.

I've explained this a few times now, but I'll do it again here: The Board
could not have done significantly more about the Boston Summit to avoid or
avert the crisis we had. It's that simple. Due to unrepresentative and ill
informed noise on board-list, it has been turned into a much bigger issue
that it ever was.

At precisely the time when the Boston Summit was ready to announce and work
could begin on the (much more interesting) detail of catering, what we were
going to do, how we were going to run it, and calling for local volunteers
to run the show, our apparently booked venue pulled the plug. This started a
lengthy period of going through other channels to get the venue back, trying
for a different venue with the same organisation, looking at different dates
and hosts, and finally, a last-minute splurge on a venue as we were down to
the wire and couldn't feasibly change the dates. It was not a lack of time,
planning or local volunteers that set off this chain of events... It was a
*horribly* timed disappearance of the most important piece of the Summit's
organisational puzzle: The venue. If there's no venue, there's no Summit.

Of course, massive thanks go to Zana and Owen for pulling it all together
for a very successful Summit despite the roadblocks and challenges. In the
end, the Board only received one complaint about the Summit, and that was
before it was held, and by someone who did not go to it. (If anyone *does*
have complaints about the Summit, please mail the Board!)

I am more (personally) disappointed with the 10th anniversary execution and
results than those of the Boston Summit.

 How much time did we put in aligning the election period with GUADEC?
 Imagine if instead we had been dealing with this poisoned OOXML
 discussion.

It took *one* Board member's time and leadership to pursue the term length
bylaws change (in addition to discussion among members and the time of the
membership committee to run the vote). This is a very important and worthy
change, which will have a positive impact from 2009 onward - that's a long
time away, but we had to change it now or it would languish until the 2010
term! Given that this has come up nearly every term I've been on the Board,
I regard actual execution on this issue as a great success of this term.

It would have taken *one* Board member's time (and a bit of review) to ship
a timely announcement and clarification when we joined ECMA and TC45-M. It
would have created an outburst itself, with mildly different properties to
what we're experiencing now -- unless we had done a *spectacular* job with
the messaging, it would've been GNOME announces support for OOXML. I have
been dealing with the shrill voices for days now, so I might sound a bit
rankled on this front. ;-)

Different people were responsible for these tasks, there was no substantial
cross-over in time or topic, so they're basically incomparable.

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-11-04 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 Jeff Waugh wrote:
  Things change -- what was taken for granted while you were on the Board
  may not be the case now.
 
 Way to make a guy feel like his opinion is worth something Jeff.

Huh? Of course your opinion is worth something, but the issue is not static.

 Would you mind educating me on what's changed, please? Perhaps as a
 foundation member who put a lot of time over two terms into the hiring
 process I might have something to offer the decision making process?

I explained it in that email. If something wasn't clear or you need further
explanation, let me know what it is.

- Jeff

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Re: board [was Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]]

2007-11-03 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Alan Cox

 As for trashing you, it seems any comment about the boards actions or
 activities that is the slighest bit negative or in disagreement with
 yourself you take as a personal insult and follow up in flowery language
 attempting to supress the dissent by acting hurt. 

I pointed out behaviour that I thought was inappropriate and unproductive.
Given that it wasn't particularly relevant to myself (but highly relevant to
my corporate responsibility with the Board), your attempts to discredit me
and my comments are similarly inappropriate and unproductive. I suggest you
take a gander at the Code of Conduct, and figure a more constructive way to
contribute to the community.

- Jeff

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Re: board [was Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]]

2007-11-02 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Luis Villa

 I volunteered to take leadership on this position months ago.

We chose to have a Board member as liaison to the Legal team, which was very
clearly delegated the responsibility to provide legal support and advice to
the Foundation. This is the same model as other teams, but as the legal team
is new and doesn't have a well-defined leadership/sustainability model (as,
say, the release team does), it could do with a lot more shepherding. It was
only clear to us very recently that the current liaison was not doing this
effectively. The only reason it became clear to us is that our own goals
were not being met, not as a result of feedback from the legal team itself.

So, yes, I totally understand your position, but I think that falling back
on unsympathetic, dramatic criticism of the Board and ultimatums is not a
productive way of fixing the problem.

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-31 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Luis Villa

 I am frustrated, and so I will be running for the board again.
 
 If elected, my almost-exclusive focus will be handling legal and
 secretarial issues for the board. So I can't guarantee that my being on
 the board would necessarily have prevented this particular problem, but
 I'd like to think I would have at least screamed very loud.

That's rocking good news. More warm bodies on the Board with time to spare
(or a very particular focus, plus the usual oversight and representation) is
a very welcome thing, and it would be great to have you on the Board again.

A related issue: I think we've pretty much shown that the seven person Board
thing is a bit of a failure. Even if you're not elected or didn't run, we
could appoint you to the Board for this function. :-) We ought to consider
adding a couple of people to the Board.

So much for being away for five years. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-31 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Andy Tai

 Maybe Jody's involvement can be just his personal activity and totally
 separated from, and have nothing to do with, GNOME.

His involvement is facilitated by our membership of ECMA. We were entirely
willing to do so.

- Jeff

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Re: board [was Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]]

2007-10-31 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Luis Villa

 I'm hesitant to declare it a failure until I see more evidence that
 delegation has been tried and failed. For example, I could do this sort of
 thing without being on the board at all- no need to appoint me to the
 board. But frankly I have not felt like my attempts to help out have been
 invited, much less encouraged.

I have personally tried, and certainly taken legal issues to legal-private
as a matter of delegation (and only received one response, btw), but I think
there is an issue of... domain-specific responsibility... involved that has
not created or encouraged an active team around legal work. That's a bummer,
and I think the extreme business of other Board members has contributed to
no one else picking up that ball.

(Sorry I'm not being more specific, but I have to figure out if/how I can be
during this election cycle.)

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-31 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 What we've shown is not having a full-time director has been a mistake

It has actually been a very helpful learning experience -- understanding
what the purpose of that role should be, by grokking the gaps. It's less
obvious what that role ought to be now that we're so far away from the
Executive Director assumption.

 I agree that expecting a 7 person volunteer board to take care of the
 administration and day to day running of the foundation is asking too
 much.

It would be, but luckily, that's not the situation we're in. We have a very
good part time administrator in Zana, who has done a fantastic job picking
up the pieces of our previous administrative mess.

It's very easy to simplify this issue, and I think it's a mistake to do so.
Defining the role and hiring someone for it has been and will continue to be
a very tricky task. We have to be very comfortable choosing between large
target and small target goals. Just hiring for an Executive Director role
would put us firmly in the small target zone, which is probably not the
right thing to do. I don't even think it's necessary.

Things change -- what was taken for granted while you were on the Board may
not be the case now.

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-31 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Andy Tai

 For the future the board should really consider not sponsoring anyone to
 work on the OOXML format

No one was sponsored to work on the OOXML format.

 (and withdraw existing involvement on the behalf of the GNOME Foundation),
 as many people in the free software/FOSS community are working hard to try
 to prevent the OOXML from becoming a standard.

We're not working towards ISO standardisation of OOXML.

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Luis Villa

 So, uh... this apparently didn't happen, and now we're getting flamed
 (rightfully) for appearing to give a stamp of approval to a deeply flawed
 standard. So... when is the board making this happen?

Although I disagree with the tone and content of your email, an announcement
is pending about a related issue, which may address concerns (legitimate or
not) raised about GNOME's involvement in TC45-M. Participation in the TC45-M
process does not imply approval or support for ISO standardisation of OOXML.

- Jeff

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Re: OOXML [was Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07]

2007-10-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Luis Villa

 This flaming was completely and utterly predictable. I'm disappointed that
 the board took the time to approve an action that obviously exposed GNOME
 to PR problems without taking the (very obvious) PR steps to reduce that
 impact.

Based on the genesis of the open letter, it is hard to believe it would
have helped. That said, since the letter, there have been numerous contacts
to the Board and members of it, and there is likely to be a more official
response to come (due to the interest in clarifying what on earth the letter
was about).

I look forward to further aggravated public shaming of past incompetencies,
especially ones so obvious in hindsight, as it always improves motivation
and encourages members to run for election. I'm sorry I couldn't find a way
to write this sentence without sarcasm.

- Jeff

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Re: Preliminary results for Membership Vote Regarding Change to Bylaws

2007-10-16 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 Voting in referenda is generally not very high, and there was 0 debate on
 this issue on the list (I did see some grumbling on IRC, but nothing
 concrete), so it's hardly an initiative that's going to mobilise the
 troops.

There was buttloads of discussion around the initial plan, which partly led
to the revised implementation (mostly about extending the current board's
term, and we had legal advice suggesting the bylaws change). Based on the
length and breadth of the earlier threads, I don't think there was any lack
of discussion. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Suggestion for coming elections

2007-10-16 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 Quim Gil wrote:
  What happens when you get less than 7 people with votes?
 
 I don't understand - you mean if there are fewer than 7 candidates?

Quim meant fewer than seven who receive votes at all (implying that there
would be other candidates running who received none). I don't think it's a
huge issue, as those who were elected can choose to appoint more directors
should they wish to.

I think it would be better to go with a widely used and familiar system,
such as those proposed by James Henstridge and Ryan Lortie in previous
years. In fact, I would be happy to appoint a group (including James and
Ryan) to come up with a proposal for the Board.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-13 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 But I'm 100% fine with this since we still didn't change most of the world
 to understand French; hopefully we will get there soon! ;-)

This would be an entirely reasonable catalyst for applying censorship to
Planet GNOME.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-13 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Alvaro Lopez Ortega

 The planet is not a newspaper or a magazine, it is just a planet. That
 censorship / editorial line idea doesn't make any sense to me.

I hope that this is a similar effect to that of great design -- you don't
notice the editorship because Planet is highly readable and reflective of
the people who are active bloggers in our community. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-13 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Alvaro Lopez Ortega

 Jeff Waugh wrote, On 13/09/07 11:43:
 
The planet is not a newspaper or a magazine, it is just a planet.
That censorship / editorial line idea doesn't make any sense to me.
  
   I hope that this is a similar effect to that of great design -- you
   don't notice the editorship because Planet is highly readable and
   reflective of the people who are active bloggers in our community. :-)
 
 Does that mean that if someone isn't an active blogger he has nothing
 interesting to write about every now and then?

That's a pretty bizaare interpretation of what I wrote. :-)

 Besides, that would need someone to be over the good and the bad to make
 the decision of whether a post is worth to be in the planet or not... and
 I'd like to think that nobody would step forward to take over that
 position.

Editorship doesn't mean intrusive oversight of every post. It means there's
a benchmark for inclusion. I'm summarising how I go through that decision at
the moment [1].

- Jeff

[1] I did tell myself not to get involved in the discussion and just post
this once I'd finished it, but I didn't want to let the conversation go off
the rails with all the conspiracy theory crap.

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Tristan Van Berkom

 *sigh*, I wonder what you are basing this claim on, maybe there's an
 archived thread that you could reffer us to which details that ?

Unfortunately my blog didn't have comments at the time, so most of the
responses to this were on IRC or by mail. It's mentioned fairly regularly
even now. Planet GNOME is vastly more readable and relevant (in terms of
people, not topic) than many other Planets.

 I think its important to note here that giving someone access to blog on
 planet gnome is like publicly aknowlaging that they are indeed a part of
 the gnome community - people who contribute to the project need to feel
 like they are part of the project.

For sure.

 Currently it seems like there is even more sensorship in planet membership
 than svn access

I'm just not going to get caught up in all this alarmism about censorship. I
can't imagine why anyone would think I could get away with actual censorship
of Planet... it would be laughable if it wasn't so mean spirited.

Suggesting this about SVN is equally ridiculous.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Steve Frécinaux

 I'd even go one step further saying than most people care about gnome and
 gnome apps, and not about one's cats and the other's culinar niceties.

 Because despite Gnome is people, I think that for most people, Planet
 Gnome is primarily about Gnome.

Well, that's counter to the original purpose and design of Planet GNOME. It
would be like asking Bastien to include support for comic book compression
formats in Totem. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Federico Mena Quintero

 The current editorial control is simply more or less if you ever did
 something peripherally related to GNOME, you can be on Planet, regardless
 of what you post.

It's somewhat more intricate than that -- I'm writing it up atm, so people
can understand the decision making process (guidelines). That's the first
step. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Pascal Terjan

 I think that asking people to have tags/categories on their blogs and not
 aggregate everything would be better than having all the content of the
 ones who arrived first.

Planet GNOME is about the people moreso than the project. We talk about the
project *all the time*. The reason why I started Planet GNOME (and Planet!)
was to read about and better understand the *people*. That's why full feeds
are preferred over GNOME-specific tags, why we have hackergotchis (to put a
face to a name), and why this idea has been so influential around the FLOSS
community.

 Some people currently post everyday about their life and it's never
 related to GNOME at all.

It's related to GNOME because they're part of our *family*, and we are all
better off for knowing each other.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-12 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

 That's why full feeds are preferred over GNOME-specific tags

Minor point: I do mean 'preferred'. If someone has a good reason for wanting
only their GNOME-related posts on Planet I'm cool with that, but I always go
back to ask before putting them up. So no knicker-twisting, censorship nuts!

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 23rd Auguest 2007

2007-09-11 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 I think it's a mistake not to have someone in Boston involved early in the
 planning process.

This problem would not have been solved by having someone in Boston involved
early in the planning process. It's just rotten luck.

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 23rd Auguest 2007

2007-09-11 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

   I think it's a mistake not to have someone in Boston involved early in
   the planning process.
  
  This problem would not have been solved by having someone in Boston
  involved early in the planning process. It's just rotten luck.
 
 I didn't say it would have been. That's not the point.

It appeared to be the catalyst for your complaint, but not relevant to the
issue at hand. If you point is to repeat your complaint without taking into
account the answer you've received previously, then great, but it's not very
helpful.

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 23rd Auguest 2007

2007-09-11 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 You don't have to take this as some kind of challenge to your authority,
 and get defensive about it.

I'm objecting to your repeated griping-without-helping (and now in public),
Dave. It's not motivating *or* helpful, particularly following up to this.

- Jeff

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Re: Git vs SVN (was: Can we improve things?)

2007-09-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Sanford Armstrong

 $ bzr init-repo --trees some-project
 $ cd some-project
 $ bzr checkout http://url/to/some-project
 $ bzr branch mainline working
 $ cd working
 $ ./configure
 $ make
 
 ...compared to the same steps using svn...
 
 $ svn co http://url/to/some-project/trunk some-project
 $ cd some-project
 $ ./configure
 $ make

You appear to be comparing completely different things. If you want to do a
checkout with bzr:

$ bzr co http://url/to/some-project/trunk some-project
$ cd some-project
$ ./configure
$ make

If you want to have a branch with bzr:

$ bzr branch http://url/to/some-project/trunk some-project
$ cd some-project
$ ./configure
$ make

Same.

- Jeff

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Re: Creating new modules (was Re: Git vs SVN (was: Can we improve things?))

2007-09-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Havoc Pennington

 Bringing it back to the present, there's stuff on svn.mugshot.org that
 really belongs on gnome.org, but it seems it didn't end up there. I don't
 think this was a conscious thing, but I think it probably was due to just
 enough of a barrier to create a new gnome module.

This happens with more than just revision control infrastructure. More and
more projects are hosting everything (web, svn, lists) elsewhere, because of
the social and technical issues related to staying upstream -- it's not just
infrastructure (though your example is probably the strongest atm).

Anyway, this warrants a lot of thought.

- Jeff

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Distributed [Was: Git vs SVN]

2007-09-08 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Kevin Kubasik

 That's where I wanted to really lead this discussion, _do we want to go
 distributed_.

I think the answer to that is extraordinarily simple: Yes, we desire to use
the best tools for FLOSS development, and there is already sufficient proof
and practical experience to show that distributed revision control tools are
a great step forward for the entire community.

The retrograde discussion about, oh we need *some* kind of centralisation
is not at all relevant to choosing distributed revision control tools: We
can impose a social (and mildly technical) requirement for centralisation
where it is important (ie. blessed mainline, release trees, translations,
etc).

Today, the question is truly about What, When and How -- not Why.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Zeeshan Ali

 Jeff replied to him? 1 month is nothing, I had to wait for 1.5 years to
 get my blog syndicated to p.g.o and it's been months now that i have been
 asking him to put my picture there.

I received a mail from you on 2006-05-09 which I replied to, but didn't hear
back. I ended up adding you regardless during a post-travel sweep of Planet
requests. I got the hackergotchi mail on 2007-04-30 and replied a week or so
later with suggestions about it. I haven't received a new one, so you still
don't have a hackergotchi on Planet GNOME. I'm sorry, but I can't go chasing
after people for this stuff.

- Jeff

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Re: Can we improve things?

2007-09-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Damien Sandras

 However, I am more and more disappointed by the way some people *control*
 that community, even if they never contributed anything back to it.

I think this is an extremely unfair comment to make, whether it's about me
or any of the other sysadmins. I hope you see to an apology or at least a
retraction.

 When I think to Julien, I am also getting mad.
 He has been contributing to Ekiga for 5 years. He recently created a
 blog and asked to Jeff to be added on planet.gnome.org. He was first
 ignored, then Jeff told him that he had to post often to be added.

Julien first emailed me on 2007-08-10, which you also replied to that day.
Although his blog was empty, Julien indicated that he had a number of posts
waiting to be published. Soon after I spoke with Julien about it on IRC and
said that I preferred to add people after they'd been blogging for a while
(*not* that he had to post often) and that Planet GNOME shouldn't be seen
as a reason to blog. He emailed me again on the 28th, which I readily admit
I haven't replied to or done anything about yet as I've been travelling. My
mailbox is a horror at those times, which I hope you can have some sympathy
for.

 One day later, another guy was added to planet.gnome.org with 3 posts
 having been done in a 6 months period.

Which indicates that you don't have to blog often to be on Planet GNOME,
just that you should hopefully already be blogging. :-)

 That is what I call dictatorship and boycott of my project.

You know very well that's ugly hyperbole and emotional manipulation. Don't
raise concerns with a gun pointed at someone's head.


I know Planet GNOME maintenance has been patchy -- I've been thinking about
ways to alleviate that while keeping strong editorship in place. The Board
has prompted me about this too, so I have plenty of incentive to resolve it
without any of the poop flinging we've seen in this thread.

Thanks,

- Jeff

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Re: GNOME Community Celebrates 10 Years of Software Freedom, Innovation and Industry Adoption

2007-08-17 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Richard Stallman

 To promote software freedom, it is vital to talk about free software,
 because the term Open source is most often used to lead attention away
 from issues of freedom.

There'll be all kinds of explanation about Software Freedom and Open Source
in the opening of the cookbook -- the goal is to explain both freedom *and*
the process to computing 'laity' via delicious food from around the world.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Andy Tai

 It still looks strange to have the voting body to vote to extend the term
 of the current board, not the same as a general election.
 
 Extending the terms of some leadership tend to happen under situations
 where something prevents the holding of regular elections... nothing
 comparable exists here for the GNOME Foundation.

The proposal is about doing something out of the ordinary processes defined
by the bylaws -- that is why we are consulting the membership. Rather than
point out that the situation is extraordinary, please tell us your feelings
or concerns about the proposal as a member.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Andy Tai

 OK, simply, the stated reason for the extraordinary measure (face to face
 meeting timing) is not a strong one to justify touching the term limit of
 the board.

In that case -- let's try for productive input here, if possible -- how do
you suggest we solve the problem? (Or describe why it's not a problem that
needs to be solved.)

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Quim Gil

 1. Make sure that from a legal point of view we can have board mandate not
 coinciding with budget terms. If legally we can't do it the rest is
 pointless.

I've put it to our legal folks and am waiting for a response.

 2. Check if the current board members would be willing to continue for an
 extended period. If the current board members are not willing to go
 further the rest is pointless.

Sure. The Board will decide whether or not to call a vote.

 3. If 1 and 2 are met then we can talking about something as exceptional
 as a referendum.
 
 Really, the GNOME Foundation doesn't *need* urgently that change. We are
 used to plan and execute changes that have a mid term impact. The newly
 elected board would have to wait until Istanbul to meet. What is the so
 big issue with that? Until now this has been the rule and we seem to have
 survived.
 
 I don't understand really why all this hurry now.

Please don't mistake doing for haste. :-) There is no hurry, but I have
a desire to see this problem solved, and I feel we have a responsibility to
solve it such that the next Board may benefit from it. We've talked about it
for long enough that I'm happy to take the bullet to actually do something
about it. :-)

It's August, so we have about three months to put this to our members before
the elections must be held. No hurry, but it's a good time to get moving.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Quim Gil

 The current board was elected for one year and there is no exceptional
 reason to change this. The next board can be elected for an extended
 period and then voters and electors know what is going on beforehand.

We could do that, and it has been discussed in the past, but it defers the
problem (so the next board will suffer the same issue).

I think this illustrates a misunderstanding of the word 'exceptional'. We
don't need an 'exceptional' reason to put a change like this to the members,
but the process of doing so would be to hold a 'special' or 'exceptional'
meeting (or in our case, an online vote).

The proposal email was pretty clear: It's highly unlikely that we'd do this
without going to the membership for a vote. So the knowing beforehand idea
that has been raised a number of times is not really relevant. If members
are uncomfortable with it, they'll vote it down, and we'll have to come up
with another solution (which itself will have to involve a vote anyway, as
the bylaws do not provide a mechanism for doing this).

I'm pretty satisfied that the responses we've had so far indicate that this
is worth pursuing by putting a vote to the membership.

We can call a vote with minimum ten days notice (but we'll have to work with
the membership committee to ensure the infrastructure exists to run it).

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 Sorry, I'm going to dive into boring details...
 
 Is this something from the by-laws (I couldn't find a reference to the
 10 days notice there, but I only gave a quick look), or something you
 are suggesting?

Yes. See under VII: 3-8.

 And by vote, do you mean referendum or something else (the only other
 type of vote I know is elections :-))?

Just a vote of the membership.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Vincent Untz

 Forgot to reply to this: one worry (which is valid, IMHO) is that we don't
 know if all current board members will have time for the first six months
 of 2008. I know I have absolutely no idea right now if I'll be able to
 continue.

Agree, though directors can resign, and the Board can appoint new directors
to fill vacancies. It need not have an impact on the proper function of the
Board.

 So really, if we do a referendum, we have two questions:
 
  + Do you want to shift the election cycle?
  + Do you want to extend the current mandate of the board?
 
 I don't think we should mix them.

Two questions can be the kiss of death for a 'referendum'. :-) I've put a
question to the Board now, so let's see if/what the group accepts.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-10 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Jeff Waugh

  So really, if we do a referendum, we have two questions:
  
   + Do you want to shift the election cycle?
   + Do you want to extend the current mandate of the board?
  
  I don't think we should mix them.
 
 Two questions can be the kiss of death for a 'referendum'. :-) I've put a
 question to the Board now, so let's see if/what the group accepts.

I've modified my proposal to the Board to put forward two questions.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-09 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Shaun McCance

 While this year's and last year's GUADECs were in July, previous GUADECs
 have been in April (2001), May (2005), and June (2004).  If we have
 elections in May and June, then we wouldn't want to have future GUADECs
 any earlier than July.  I don't know if that's a problem, but it is worth
 mentioning.

June is realistic, considering the timeline. Typically, preliminary results
are announced in early December, finalising a couple of weeks later. So that
works okay with GUADEC in June, but there's certainly the option of shifting
it only by five months.

 Related to this, I worry about having the elections too close to GUADEC.
 Many of us just can't make it to GUADEC every single year, for various
 reasons.  Board members, of course, should make GUADEC a very high
 priority.  But if you're only elected two weeks before GUADEC, it may be
 too late to make travel arrangements, particularly if you need a visa.

The travel issue is a *very* good reason to look at changing it only by five
months. Thanks very much for pointing that out. (Note that the Foundation
has provided travel assistance to Board members in the past, so this not
generally a problem. The timing and costs of late travel arrangements is.)

 On another note, if anybody actually has a problem with extending this
 board's term (I don't, and nobody else who's replied so far seems to),
 another option would be to phase the shift in over the next two or three
 years by extending those terms by three or two months.

That was one of the soft options raised a couple of years back. I'd prefer
to simply fix the problem once and for all.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-09 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Julien PUYDT

 I don't have anything against the current board, BUT extending a term
 after the voters cast their vote is very wrong.

As mentioned in the original mail: (Note that the Board is unlikely to make
a change like this without formally consulting our membership via a
referendum.) - that means casting a vote.

- Jeff

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Re: Minor change to Board practice

2007-08-08 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=The Face of Sun Microsystems

 Jeff Waugh wrote:
   3. Recommend that future Boards appoint the President and
   Vice-President from elected directors annually (instead of Chairman and
   Vice-Chairman)
 
 As a slightly confusing nit, are we now saying there will only be
 President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer? or are we saying there
 will be a Chairman, Vice-Chairman, President, Vice-President, Secretary
 and Treasurer?

The former. The bylaws provide the option to have a Chairman, but I don't
really think we need one if the President is an active Director.

- Jeff

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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

2007-08-08 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Claudio Saavedra

 If I remember correctly, that's the situation since last year, when we
 decided to switch boards with the year change. What I don't remember (and
 can't find in the rules you linked), is what was the situation before.
 When used the boards to switch before that?

Pretty sure it's worked the same way since 2001 (in 2000, it was a bit more
than a month earlier) though I have half a memory of what you've mentioned,
and don't know why it's not ringing any bells. Clearly getting old. :-)

  http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2001/rules.html
  http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2000/rules.html

- Jeff

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Minor change to Board practice

2007-08-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
Hi all,

Another administrative issue the Board needs to deal with, but vastly less
interesting or controversial than the one raised in my last email. :-)

The Board is planning to fix a minor but institutionalised problem with the
practice of selecting and current state of Foundation Board officers. It is
not a major issue, because we're operating in accordance with the bylaws and
functioning properly and efficiently as an organisation, but we want to fix
the problem regardless. This does not require a vote or confirmation from
the membership, but we wanted to announce our plans and deal with concerns
should there be any.

For quite some time we have chosen a Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Secretary and
Treasurer from the elected directors. The Chairman and Vice-Chairman have in
every practical sense functioned as the President and Vice-President, though
for touchy-feely reasons we've never used those titles. The actual President
has served for many years, very rarely in a practical sense; but I'd like to
stress again that this has been in accordance with the bylaws. The President
for all these years has been... Miguel de Icaza. :-)

We'd like the officers of the GNOME Foundation to reflect the current state
and practice of the Board, and recommend this as best practice for future
Boards, so here is what we're going to do:

 1. Request a letter of resignation from Miguel (as that is the only way for
the office of President to become vacant)

 2. Appoint the Chairman (Quim) and Vice-Chairman (Anne) as President and
Vice-President

 3. Recommend that future Boards appoint the President and Vice-President
from elected directors annually (instead of Chairman and Vice-Chairman)


Please reply if you have questions or concerns.

Thanks,

- Jeff

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Re: Minor change to Board practice

2007-08-07 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Dave Neary

 I think there's value in having a figurehead president divorced from the
 day-to-day running of things

Unfortunately, that is not how the position is defined in the bylaws. Over
the past few years, what we have called the Chairman (for touchy-feely
reaosns) has for all intents and purposes served as the President, just not
in name.

 a symbolic figure who is a patron of the foundation (like, say, the Irish
 president who doesn't run the country, or the Queen in Australia).

Well, despite her most excellent maintainership of GDM, we'd love to get rid
of her. :-)

 There is an advantage too - you get to choose your president from outside
 of the community, and have it be someone with major weight in higher
 orbits - a Jonathan Schwarz or Michael Tiemann (or, indeed, Miguel de
 Icaza, in spite of him still being firmly in the community).

We could do this by having honorary members of the Advisory Board or
something. Miguel *hasn't* been firmly in the community or participating as
that symbolic figure -- no slight on him, this expectation was never set.

 If you're doing away with the symbolic president, then it probably makes
 sense to throw in a second procedural change, and have that person elected
 to the position, rather than nominated from within the board.

I didn't want to cloud the issue by introducing that (which is something I
have raised numerous times in the past, but not formally proposed). What we
are doing here is fixing the inadequate semantics and practice surrounding
the positions of President and Chairman.

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation and Source Code Copyright

2007-08-03 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Thomas Wood

 During discussions about copyright at GUADEC several people mentioned that
 developers were not encouraged to assign copyright to the GNOME
 Foundation.

Not so much not encouraged as no one's ever done it before and we haven't
created the necessary bureaucracy/infrastructure to handle it. We'd need to
create a copyright assignment form and process - if, that is, we decide it's
worth doing. :-)

(I think it probably is - plus it has come up a number of times in the GPLv3
discussions.)

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation and Source Code Copyright

2007-08-03 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Thomas Wood

 We were aware of this, but since contributions mean that there are often a
 half a dozen different contributors to one file, we thought it may be
 easier to assign copyright and then list the contributors as authors.

Copyright assignment generally doesn't make things for developers easier. It
may make certain things more clear, but not necessarily easier. For a start,
if your aim is sole aggregate copyright ownership, you have to ensure that
contributors have signed the copyright assignment agreement before accepting
their contributions... :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Foundation and Source Code Copyright

2007-08-03 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rodrigo Moya

 hmm, sorry to say that, but I was under the impression this was suggested
 many years ago (2/3 or maybe 4), and indeed I've written some code myself
 assigning the copyright to the foundation. Usually small stuff that is not
 in GNOME, but I just had a look, and the whole of libgda is (C) The GNOME
 Foundation. So, should all those source files be changed, or can we do
 something about it?

Well, the stated copyright ownership is a mistake, so whether you decide you
want to assign copyright to the Foundation or just correct the problem, you
have to know who *actually* owns the copyright. Going through the logs and
listing committers and attributed contributors would be the first step along
that painful path. :-)

- Jeff

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Re: Idea: GNOME event in Beijing 2008

2007-08-03 Thread Jeff Waugh
Adding Amy Jiang to the Cc. Hi Amy! :-)

- Jeff


quote who=Quim Gil

 This is a call for volunteers and interested GNOME lovers in Beijing /
 China / East Asia. Please forward to friends and contacts that might
 be interested.
 
 There is this initial idea of organizing a GNOME event in Beijing next
 year. Emily Chen and other developers of the Sun Desktop in Beijing
 have started pushing the idea and now they are in the task of having
 an initial organization team with volunteers from other organizations,
 companies and individuals.
 
 There is a lot of GNOME related development going on in Beijing, China
 and East Asia in general. This conference could be a great opportunity
 to provide more visibility to the ideas, people, teams etc. We are
 starting the discussion in the GNOME marketing-list.
 
 More:
 
 GNOME calling to Beijing / China / East Asia
 http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/384

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Re: Resigning from the board

2007-07-16 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Ghee Teo

 Does this also implies there is a going to be by-election (first one 
 ever) :) ?

No, according to the GNOME Foundation by-laws, the Board may appoint a new
director in the case of a vacancy (which we did last year under the same
circumstances).

- Jeff

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Mailing lists fixage

2007-06-23 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Olav Vitters

 Mailing list setup is broken. Hiring someone to figure it all out might be
 a good idea; because currently I do not setup mailing lists just because I
 do not want to figure out how.

I studied the broken setup a couple of weeks ago after doing blogo - I think
I'll be able to fix it this morning with minimal downtime. So that's another
thing off our backs. :-)

(Also, I did some pending mailing list requests while I was figuring it out;
are there others waiting in RT? My access is busted atm.)

- Jeff

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