Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > So your point is that it would be better that the app appear on the > store to come from Random J Hacker that most of the users might not have > heard of, rather than a trusted organisation like the GNOME Foundation. Most of the people who install apps from the app stores are not worrying about who they can trust. If they did, they would not use these proprietary systems and their app stores. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Hubert Figuière wrote: > On 06/11/15 04:40 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> >> That's true. The program's developers, or others, can put it in the >> Google store if they wish. >> >> My point is that the GNOME Foundation should not do so. > > So your point is that it would be better that the app appear on the > store to come from Random J Hacker that most of the users might not have > heard of, rather than a trusted organisation like the GNOME Foundation. > Opening the door to Joe Criminal to publish a similar app that would > have a malicious impact (stealing personal information, spying, etc.). I think it makes most sense for the program's developers to put it in the store, as Stallman suggested. What's wrong with that? ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On 06/11/15 04:40 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > That's true. The program's developers, or others, can put it in the > Google store if they wish. > > My point is that the GNOME Foundation should not do so. So your point is that it would be better that the app appear on the store to come from Random J Hacker that most of the users might not have heard of, rather than a trusted organisation like the GNOME Foundation. Opening the door to Joe Criminal to publish a similar app that would have a malicious impact (stealing personal information, spying, etc.). That is rather disconcerting. While we can disagree with the model of the app store as a gatekeeper, and the non-freedom side of it, it surely is better to ensure that model is not used maliciously against efforts towards Software Freedom. I am all supportive of the GNOME Foundation is the foundation decide to publish Free Software applications on any app store to try to promote Software Freedom. Hub ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On Fri, 2015-11-06 at 16:40 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > > > While I do think we should recommend fdroid.org as preferable and > only > > link to it (such as in links from the GNOME application and its > > documentation), and avoid linking to a version in the Play store > (e.g. > > "To use the Foo feature, install the Foo application for Android, > > available via https://f-droid.org/...";), that doesn't preclude > making > > the application available via the Google Play store for users who > > already have that installed. > > That's true. The program's developers, or others, can put it in the > Google store if they wish. > > My point is that the GNOME Foundation should not do so. I initially thought we should put the app in the store. Reading this last line, made me realize the distinction. I agree with Dr. Stallman. I really enjoy reading this list sometimes! Thanks! James @purpleidea signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 04:40:35PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > > > I suspect that uploading to the app store also requires nonfree > software, > > > but I don't know for certain. > > > To the best of my knowledge it does not, though some effort is required > > to avoid it. (See some of the recent discussion about the Android SDK > > and its EULA, for instance.) It's possible that it requires proprietary > > JavaScript; I have not personally tested that. > > Proprietary Javascript is what I suspect Google requires. > > However, this is a secondary issue -- the primary one is that the user > must run nonfree software to install the app from there. Leading > others to run nonfree software is more grave than using nonfree > software yourself. Agreed. I think it's important to make Free Software available for proprietary platforms as a bridge to draw people in; I have a personal fondness for that approach as it's the path I took myself (replacing most of my regularly-used apps on Windows with Free Software replacements that also ran on GNU/Linux, and then replacing Windows with Debian GNU/Linux). > > While I do think we should recommend fdroid.org as preferable and only > > link to it (such as in links from the GNOME application and its > > documentation), and avoid linking to a version in the Play store (e.g. > > "To use the Foo feature, install the Foo application for Android, > > available via https://f-droid.org/...";), that doesn't preclude making > > the application available via the Google Play store for users who > > already have that installed. > > That's true. The program's developers, or others, can put it in the > Google store if they wish. > > My point is that the GNOME Foundation should not do so. That seems like a reasonable point; I'm somewhat inclined to agree for a different reason, namely that the GNOME Foundation should on principle not be paying the entry fee for a proprietary app store, however small. :) That said, I do think it's reasonable for the description of the application *in* the Play store to reference GNOME, in the course of explaining that it works with a specific Free Software program, that the recommended place to obtain the app is f-droid, and providing links to GNOME. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
> > I suspect that uploading to the app store also requires nonfree software, > > but I don't know for certain. > To the best of my knowledge it does not, though some effort is required > to avoid it. (See some of the recent discussion about the Android SDK > and its EULA, for instance.) It's possible that it requires proprietary > JavaScript; I have not personally tested that. Proprietary Javascript is what I suspect Google requires. However, this is a secondary issue -- the primary one is that the user must run nonfree software to install the app from there. Leading others to run nonfree software is more grave than using nonfree software yourself. > While I do think we should recommend fdroid.org as preferable and only > link to it (such as in links from the GNOME application and its > documentation), and avoid linking to a version in the Play store (e.g. > "To use the Foo feature, install the Foo application for Android, > available via https://f-droid.org/...";), that doesn't preclude making > the application available via the Google Play store for users who > already have that installed. That's true. The program's developers, or others, can put it in the Google store if they wish. My point is that the GNOME Foundation should not do so. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
Hi, I suggest you consider whether boycotting proprietary app stores is the really best way to advance free software, considering that 99% of users on such platforms will not install our free software unless it is available via the app stores. Michael ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On Thu, Nov 05, 2015 at 05:41:43PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > To download anything from the Google app store requires a nonfree > program, Google Play. This program is known to have a back door (see > http://gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-back-doors.html) that is > universal or pretty close. > > I suspect that uploading to the app store also requires nonfree software, > but I don't know for certain. To the best of my knowledge it does not, though some effort is required to avoid it. (See some of the recent discussion about the Android SDK and its EULA, for instance.) It's possible that it requires proprietary JavaScript; I have not personally tested that. > Thus, I think the GNOME Foundation should not do this. When we > recommend free software for Android, let's instead recommend > fdroid.org as the place to get them. While I do think we should recommend fdroid.org as preferable and only link to it (such as in links from the GNOME application and its documentation), and avoid linking to a version in the Play store (e.g. "To use the Foo feature, install the Foo application for Android, available via https://f-droid.org/...";), that doesn't preclude making the application available via the Google Play store for users who already have that installed. Users who have it would find it there when searching that store, while users who do not use Google Play will not receive any encouragement from GNOME to start doing so, and will instead get a link to f-droid. Doing so seems quite similar to making an application available for Windows: we don't encourage people to run Windows, but we sometimes make Free Software available for Windows for users who already do run it. - Josh Triplett ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
To download anything from the Google app store requires a nonfree program, Google Play. This program is known to have a back door (see http://gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-back-doors.html) that is universal or pretty close. I suspect that uploading to the app store also requires nonfree software, but I don't know for certain. Thus, I think the GNOME Foundation should not do this. When we recommend free software for Android, let's instead recommend fdroid.org as the place to get them. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
On 3 November 2015 at 20:51, Richard Stallman wrote: > What do we plan to do with a Google Play account, > such that it is an issue for the board? The board has been approached by members of the community about shipping an app via the Google Play Store which would complement a GNOME application on the desktop. The question is about whether the Foundation would like to have an account to ship the app as supplied by the GNOME Foundation or not. The alternative is that individual developers ship their own apps. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
What do we plan to do with a Google Play account, such that it is an issue for the board? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Agenda for board meeting on November 3rd
The next board meeting is 2015-11-03. Here's our public agenda. We welcome questions or feedback on any of these items. The board meeting are currently planned to take place on a weekly basis, so non-urgent ideas for future discussions are also welcome. * Adboard * next meeting * Google Play account * Instagram filters in GNOME: see email thread by the same name * Trademark renewals * Conference sponsorship brochure * Trademark/legal requests backlog * Ubuntu GNOME trademark licence agreement * the board needs to review and agree the draft sent by Pam two weeks ago * "GNOME logo for a t-shirt" by A. Cojocaru * Sysadmin sponsorship brochure & pitch * Review feedback on the draft * Coming up with perks * Open items: * GIMP reimbursements * ED search * GUADEC * GNOME.Asia * Budget ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
