Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2010-01-15 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/15/09 4:09 PM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) zee...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, Lefty wrote: Given the proposition that proprietary software is illegitimate, and the statement above, do you believe that the GNOME Foundation and

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-17 Thread guido iodice
Hi to all. I'm not a GNOME Foundation member, then I apologize for this e-mail. But as enthusiastic GNOME user, I would like to send you my opinion. First at all: thank you Richard Stallman and Miguel De Icaza for GNOME idea. Thank you Miguel for GNOME hacking and for Mono too. Thank you RMS for

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-15 Thread Andy Tai
It seems that a better idea is to consider the Planet not part of GNOME. That way GNOME does not have to deal with whatever is in the planet, like slashdot does not control and is not responsible for the messages by its posters. GNOME controls the official web page content. This planet is not

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/13/09 8:22 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: ...I would not encourage anyone to use non-free software even to get money to give to a worthy cause. I apologize to all, but given this, there's a question that _really_ has to be asked: Given the proposition that proprietary

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Juanjo Marin
El dom, 13-12-2009 a las 13:08 +0100, Peter Hjalmarsson escribió: For gentoo, they have two feeds: the planet, and the universe, where the planet only aggregates those blog posts that are tagged with gentoo, and the universe aggregates the rest. I cannot understand why GNOME cannot have this

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-15 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I will, except that I don't know what the process to do that is. Just post to f-l? How would we make a decision? Or gather 10% to put it to vote? Edit the Code, if a few people complain they can remove their signatures (and remove their blogs from PGO, if the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Richard Stallman
As a specific example, to the question, Do you agree that viewing proprietary software as 'illegitimate', 'immoral', 'antisocial' and/or 'unethical' should be a pre-condition for syndication on Planet GNOME?, so far 151 respondents have answered No, only 19 have answered Yes.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Richard Stallman
As it says in the footer of Planet GNOME: ... *Planet GNOME automatically reposts blog entries from the GNOME community. Entries on this page are owned by their authors. We do not edit, endorse or vouch for the contents of individual posts. This might be adequate for legal

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Richard Stallman
Non-free software can't even be favorably mentioned? My second suggestion was to post an official GNOME response when it is favorably mentioned. My previous suggestion was for a rule about a much narrower case. It seems you've grafted part of one onto part of the other, and now you're

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-15 Thread Zeeshan Ali (Khattak)
Hi, On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, Lefty wrote: Given the proposition that proprietary software is illegitimate, and the statement above, do you believe that the GNOME Foundation and community should distance itself from companies which produce

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Miguel de Icaza
Hello, GNOME is not connected with the anti-hunting movement; there's no reason it should have any position on the question. But GNOME is part of the GNU Project, and it ought to support the free software movement. The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Richard Hughes
2009/12/10 Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org: The presence of articles discussing vmware, for instance, conveys the message that GNOME sees nothing wrong with it. I think you've added 1 and 1 and made 7. Richard. ___ foundation-list mailing list

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Andre Klapper
Am Dienstag, den 08.12.2009, 15:24 -0500 schrieb Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak: Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1. Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg / median / max number of votes). 2) how interested are

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: As a specific example, to the question, Do you agree that viewing proprietary software as 'illegitimate', 'immoral', 'antisocial' and/or 'unethical' should be a pre-condition for syndication on Planet GNOME?, so far 151 respondents have answered No, only 19 have

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Le mercredi 09 décembre 2009, à 19:47 +0100, Dodji Seketeli a écrit : Le mer. 09 déc. 2009 à 14:45:55 (+0100), Philip Van Hoof a écrit: This is nonsense. The planet-gnome slogan is: Planet GNOME is __ a window into the world, work and lives __ of GNOME hackers and contributors. This

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Hey, Le mercredi 09 décembre 2009, à 13:32 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod a écrit : On 12/09/2009 08:48 AM, Lionel Dricot wrote: - Each GNOME member should be able to add his feed to pgo. He might want to change his feed whenever he wants to take a more specialized one or not. The consensus in the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Le vendredi 11 décembre 2009, à 17:20 +0100, Philip Van Hoof a écrit : I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. So, as far as I can tell, nobody is collecting a list of members who support such a vote proposal. I still wanted to reply there. For many of the reasons

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Hey, Le jeudi 10 décembre 2009, à 07:46 -0700, Stormy Peters a écrit : My post on hunting comes to mind. I self censor now because I didn't like the negative comments directed at my kids. But would you block my whole blog because a vocal portion of the community is anti-hunting and people in

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Hi, (This is hopefully my last mail for catching up with this thread ;-)) Le mercredi 25 novembre 2009, à 12:48 +, Lucas Rocha a écrit : Hi all, The Board has recently received some complaints from members of the community about certain the inappropriate behaviors. In the context of

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/14/2009 04:34 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Also, the GNU project is not the FSF. When reading the thread, I have the feeling that some people want the GNOME project to not be part of the FSF, or to disagree with the FSF. The GNOME Foundation is part of the FSF, and we sometimes disagree with

Addition to the Code of Conduct (was Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership)

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Le mercredi 25 novembre 2009, à 17:35 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod a écrit : I also like to see two more ideas added to CoC: - Learn to agree to disagree. - Criticize ideas, not people presenting them. I support this change. I'm just unsure how we can update the Code of Conduct, since

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Vincent Untz
Le lundi 14 décembre 2009, à 16:56 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod a écrit : On 12/14/2009 04:34 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Also, the GNU project is not the FSF. When reading the thread, I have the feeling that some people want the GNOME project to not be part of the FSF, or to disagree with the FSF.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Luis Villa
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: On 12/14/2009 04:34 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Also, the GNU project is not the FSF. When reading the thread, I have the feeling that some people want the GNOME project to not be part of the FSF, or to disagree with the

Re: Addition to the Code of Conduct (was Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership)

2009-12-14 Thread Pierre-Luc Beaudoin
On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 22:56 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Should we just version the Code of Conduct? Or is this a non-issue? I believe we don't need to update the Code since those 2 additions are expected behaviours from the existing Be respectful and considerate element. Maybe should these 2

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 22:34 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Le vendredi 11 décembre 2009, à 17:20 +0100, Philip Van Hoof a écrit : I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. So, as far as I can tell, nobody is collecting a list of members who support such a vote proposal.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-14 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/14/2009 05:26 PM, Philip Van Hoof wrote: But what if advocating free software means that the minimal support GNOME should do for GNU, is to claim that proprietary is illegitimate? Exactly. I have been supporting Free Software for over ten years, and will probably do for the rest of my

Re: Addition to the Code of Conduct (was Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership)

2009-12-14 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/14/2009 05:26 PM, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 22:56 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Should we just version the Code of Conduct? Or is this a non-issue? I believe we don't need to update the Code since those 2 additions are expected behaviours from the existing Be

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-14 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/14/2009 07:41 PM, Lucas Rocha wrote: - Learn to agree to disagree. - Criticize ideas, not people presenting them. Pierre suggested that both items are added to the list of example behaviours under Be respectful and considerate. This is something that should be officially proposed for

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership (Summary)

2009-12-14 Thread Andy Tai
It seems that a better idea is to consider the Planet not part of GNOME. That way GNOME does not have to deal with whatever is in the planet, like slashdot does not control and is not responsible for the messages by its posters. GNOME controls the official web page content. This planet is not

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Richard Stallman
That's where the cash for things like my FSF-E Fellowship, EFF membership, Creative Commons membership, etc., come from, see? These are worthy causes, but I would not encourage anyone to use non-free software even to get money to give to a worthy cause. However, the issue here isn't

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Richard Stallman
We wanted Gnome to be a free software stack, and that was our requirement. Gnome itself was assembled out of the available components plus the requirements of the community that emerged early on. GNOME was made out of available components and new components. In particular, we

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Richard Stallman
I made an accusation against Apple which was false, so I owed an apology. Being misunderstood, falsely accused, and vilified by some does not in my view mean I owe an apology. Instead I took steps to avoid similar misunderstandings. Your words impute spurious negative emotions to the events:

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Richard Stallman
You're also stretching the term censorship and related terms to an area where it does not pertain. For an organization to stand by its values, and not say things which conflict with those values, is not censorship. Fine. We can simply call it prior restraint if you

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/13/09 8:22 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: Unable to come up with and too dumb are your own additions, which clearly were not present in the events themselves. Clearly, a lot of misunderstanding was present in the events themselves. To what do you attribute this wide-spread

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Jonathon Jongsma
On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 08:33 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: On 12/13/09 8:22 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: Unable to come up with and too dumb are your own additions, which clearly were not present in the events themselves. Clearly, a lot of misunderstanding was present in the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Paul Cutler
As it says in the footer of Planet GNOME: *Planet GNOME is a window into the world, work and lives of GNOME hackers and contributors http://planet.gnome.org/heads/. *Planet GNOME automatically reposts blog entries from the GNOME community. Entries on this page are owned by their authors. We do

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Tobias Mueller
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Heya, On 13.12.2009 16:33, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: To what do you attribute this wide-spread misunderstanding, if not stupidity, ignorance or a general lack of adequate erudition on the part of the audience? Misunderstandings can be a result of many

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/13/09 8:22 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: That's where the cash for things like my FSF-E Fellowship, EFF membership, Creative Commons membership, etc., come from, see? These are worthy causes, but I would not encourage anyone to use non-free software even to get

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
In the interests of a broader collection of data, I've shelled out of my own pocket to set up a professional-level SurveyMonkey account (the use of which I will happily share with the Foundation, at least until the annual subscription runs out, if it wishes to conduct surveys of its own). I've

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-13 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/13/2009 06:04 PM, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: In the interests of a broader collection of data, I've shelled out of my own pocket to set up a professional-level SurveyMonkey account (the use of which I will happily share with the Foundation, at least until the annual subscription runs out, if it

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Stallman
Gnome supports both the free software movement as well as proprietary developers, and that is why Gnome for years has encouraged the use of the LGPL license for all of its libraries. The decision you and I made, in the early days, was to use the LGPL for the more basic and general

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Stallman
Is GNOME part of any anti-proprietary software movement? that terminology didn't come from me. I would rather describe what we are doing in positive terms: GNOME is part of the free software movement, which strives to give users freedom. I don't think so and I've never seen it like

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Stallman
I believe Stormy was quite clear and on point: It sounded to me as though she were arguing against the sort of prior restraint that you seem to be attempting to impose here. I think GNOME activities should not grant legitimacy to non-free software. This is a minimal form of support

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Stallman
We _were_ attempting to finalize a Code of Conduct which could be provided to speakers, in the hope of avoiding future instances of the sort of harmless fun we experienced during Mr. Stallman's keynote at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, as I recall. What happened there is that

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Richard Stallman
Stormy, we seem to be miscommunicating. I said that people should not promote non-free software on Planet GNOME. You seem to be arguing against something different. For instance, My post on hunting comes to mind. I self censor now because I didn't like the negative comments directed at

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Lionel Dricot
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:16 -0500, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: GNOME is not connected with the anti-hunting movement; there's no reason it should have any position on the question. But GNOME is part Is GNOME part of any anti-proprietary software movement? I don't think so and I've

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/11/09 7:12 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: Stormy, we seem to be miscommunicating. I said that people should not promote non-free software on Planet GNOME. You seem to be arguing against something different. I believe Stormy was quite clear and on point: It sounded to me as

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Lionel Dricot wrote: On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:16 -0500, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: GNOME is not connected with the anti-hunting movement; there's no reason it should have any position on the question. But GNOME is part Is GNOME part of any anti-proprietary software movement?

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 10:12 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: But GNOME is part of the GNU Project, and it ought to support the free software movement. The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from going directly against it; that is, to avoid presenting proprietary

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Philip Van Hoof
(repost, I didn't use the right E-mail address) On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 10:12 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: But GNOME is part of the GNU Project, and it ought to support the free software movement. The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from going directly

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
Philip van Hoof writes I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. I'd second this. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Philip Van Hoof wrote: I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. Such a vote, whatever the outcome, would have little effect on the GNOME project. The debate during the vote could cause a lot of harm discord for the GNOME community. An outcome whereby GNOME is no

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 17:40 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi Dave! (Are you coming to FOSDEM? We need another of those IRL chats, no?) Philip Van Hoof wrote: I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. Such a vote, whatever the outcome, would have little effect on the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/11/09 8:40 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Don't we have more concrete issues to address? We _were_ attempting to finalize a Code of Conduct which could be provided to speakers, in the hope of avoiding future instances of the sort of harmless fun we experienced during Mr.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/11/2009 11:32 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: Philip van Hoof writes I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. I'd second this. Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the bylaws you need support of 5% of the membership IIRC to put

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 12:32 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On 12/11/2009 11:32 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: Philip van Hoof writes I propose to have a vote on GNOME's membership to the GNU project. I'd second this. Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Lefty (石鏡 )
On 12/11/09 9:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the bylaws you need support of 5% of the membership IIRC to put something to vote. I'm not sure the vote would be binding though. Is there anything in the

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Stormy Peters
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org wrote: On 12/11/09 9:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the bylaws you need support of 5% of the membership IIRC to put something to vote.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: On 12/11/09 9:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the bylaws you need support of 5% of the membership IIRC to put something to vote. I'm not sure the vote would be binding though.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Les Harris
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org wrote: On 12/11/09 9:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Quick procedural note: If you really want to pursue this, according to the bylaws you need support of 5% of the membership IIRC to put something to vote.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Stormy Peters
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: There is precedent for a membership petition for an election. I ran one to have the board size reduced some years ago: http://live.gnome.org/BoardSizePetition At the time I was told I needed 10% of the membership:

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Richard Stallman wrote: Stormy, we seem to be miscommunicating. I said that people should not promote non-free software on Planet GNOME. [snip] But GNOME is part of the GNU Project, and it ought to support the free software movement. The most minimal support for the free software

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Andy Wingo
Hello Lefty, On Fri 11 Dec 2009 16:37, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org writes: On 12/11/09 7:12 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote: The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from going directly against it; that is, to avoid presenting proprietary software as

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-11 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/11/2009 01:14 PM, Stormy Peters wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org mailto:dne...@gnome.org wrote: There is precedent for a membership petition for an election. I ran one to have the board size reduced some years ago:

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-10 Thread Frederic Crozat
Le 09/12/2009 20:35, Brian Cameron a écrit : I think we are mashing together a bunch of issues. So, in effect, are we looking for: [0] a way to measure what could be appropriate content for Planet GNOME [1] a way to prevent non-free or equivalent software being marketed via the Planet [2] a

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-10 Thread Stormy Peters
Planet GNOME is about people and we display everyone's full blog feed as it represents them. There are people that work on proprietary software as well as GNOME and that's who they are. I don't think we should reject people because they don't agree with us 100% of the time. My post on hunting

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-10 Thread Julien Puydt
Behdad Esfahbod a écrit : On 12/07/2009 01:32 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote: Le 27/11/2009 10:53, Murray Cumming a écrit : On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 16:50 -0200, Tristan Van Berkom wrote: Alternative proposal: lets deal with the problem at hand and get our story straight about what is

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Stallman
I don't believe Frederic was pointing at Miguel.  There are people who have left the Gnome community working on products that don't use any Gnome technology posting blog post/ads for said product on PGO. I wonder whether these products are free software. If not, they certainly

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread sankarshan
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:     I don't believe Frederic was pointing at Miguel.  There are people who     have left the Gnome community working on products that don't use any     Gnome technology posting blog post/ads for said product on PGO. I wonder

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Frederic Crozat
Le 08/12/2009 16:08, sankarshan a écrit : 2009/12/8 Pierre-Luc Beaudoinpierre-...@pierlux.com: On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 03:23 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: But I find it interesting to know, say, what Miguel is up to these days. I don't think it's just me... I don't believe Frederic was

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 08:19 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I don't believe Frederic was pointing at Miguel. There are people who have left the Gnome community working on products that don't use any Gnome technology posting blog post/ads for said product on PGO. I wonder whether

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 14:27 +0100, Frederic Crozat wrote: So, let's start (this is list done quickly by me and I haven't contacted anybody from it), as basis: - Robert Love - Christopher Blizzard - Miguel De Icaza - Nat Friedman - Daniel Veillard - Edd Dumbill - Glynn Foster - James

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Lionel Dricot
I don't agree at all with the current direction of the discussion. For me, pgo is about people. Yes, I'm interested to learn that Nat will soon get married. Yes, I'm interested to hear about Mandriva on Frédéric's posts because I don't use it at all but at least I keep an eye on it thanks to his

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 14:07 +, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote: about their work and appear on Planet GNOME. There's nothing wrong with that. Same goes for Nokia and many other companies involved. I wonder if there's a misunderstanding here. No one said that companies shouldn't be allowed to

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/09/2009 09:07 AM, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote: about their work and appear on Planet GNOME. There's nothing wrong with that. Same goes for Nokia and many other companies involved. I wonder if there's a misunderstanding here. No one said that companies shouldn't be allowed to post. Richard

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/09/2009 08:48 AM, Lionel Dricot wrote: I don't agree at all with the current direction of the discussion. For me, pgo is about people. Yes, I'm interested to learn that Nat will soon get married. Yes, I'm interested to hear about Mandriva on Frédéric's posts because I don't use it at all

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Dodji Seketeli
Le mer. 09 déc. 2009 à 14:45:55 (+0100), Philip Van Hoof a écrit: This is nonsense. The planet-gnome slogan is: Planet GNOME is __ a window into the world, work and lives __ of GNOME hackers and contributors. This is what made the planet a successful project, initiated by Jeff Waugh (who

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Dan Winship
On 12/09/2009 01:47 PM, Dodji Seketeli wrote: The way I understand what Frédéric said is, there is an (yet another one?) interesting question not answered by the p.g.o slogan. What does the planet maintainers do with people who stop being involved in the project. Sometimes people who are not

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 13:32 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On 12/09/2009 08:48 AM, Lionel Dricot wrote: I know some planets that choose to have a code of conduct about what should be posted or not (like planet Ubuntu-f or planet-libre.org). They all ended by not selecting the people on a

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Stallman
Is it possible to provide filters so that people who are interested in different types of blog entries can focus on what is interesting to them? This could be a useful feature for many reasons, but it doesn't address the issue of articles that grant legitimacy to non-free software.

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Stallman
The people who work at VmWare also very often posted (and still post) about their work and appear on Planet GNOME. They should not do this, unless VmWare becomes free software. GNOME should not provide proprietary software developers with a platform to present non-free software as a good

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Stallman
Richard said that Planet GNOME shouldn't be used to promote non-free software (i.e. software that denies freedom by witholding source code or witholding permission to use/modify/distribute). But mono *is* Free Software according to the FSF definition! Yes, it is. There's

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/07/2009 01:32 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote: Le 27/11/2009 10:53, Murray Cumming a écrit : On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 16:50 -0200, Tristan Van Berkom wrote: Alternative proposal: lets deal with the problem at hand and get our story straight about what is planet.gnome.org, what can be posted there

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Pierre-Luc Beaudoin
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 03:23 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: But I find it interesting to know, say, what Miguel is up to these days. I don't think it's just me... I don't believe Frederic was pointing at Miguel. There are people who have left the Gnome community working on products that don't

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread sankarshan
2009/12/8 Pierre-Luc Beaudoin pierre-...@pierlux.com: On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 03:23 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: But I find it interesting to know, say, what Miguel is up to these days. I don't think it's just me... I don't believe Frederic was pointing at Miguel.  There are people who have

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Stormy Peters
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:08 AM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.comwrote: [1] How does one define that they have left the GNOME community ? If this is a concern that many have, maybe it would be simple enough to send an annual reminder to people that are aggregated on Planet GNOME to let

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1. Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg / median / max number of votes). 2) how interested are readers in his/her posts (avg / median / min/max score. We can then have

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Sankar P
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: On 12/08/2009 10:08 AM, sankarshan wrote: 2009/12/8 Pierre-Luc Beaudoinpierre-...@pierlux.com: On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 03:23 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: But I find it interesting to know, say, what Miguel is up to

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/09/2009 01:37 AM, Sankar P wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1. Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg / median / max number of votes). 2) how interested are readers in his/her posts (avg / median / min/max score. We can

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread sankarshan
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: On 12/09/2009 01:37 AM, Sankar P wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1.  Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg / median / max number of votes).  2) how

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/09/2009 01:56 AM, sankarshan wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Behdad Esfahbodbeh...@behdad.org wrote: On 12/09/2009 01:37 AM, Sankar P wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1. Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg /

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread sankarshan
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote: Coming back to the starting point - what is the problem to which the solution is being discussed ? Read the thread? I have been following the thread since the inception. The intent of the (rhetorical ?) question was to

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-08 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On 12/09/2009 02:25 AM, sankarshan wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Behdad Esfahbodbeh...@behdad.org wrote: Coming back to the starting point - what is the problem to which the solution is being discussed ? Read the thread? I have been following the thread since the inception. The

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-12-07 Thread Frederic Crozat
Le 27/11/2009 10:53, Murray Cumming a écrit : On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 16:50 -0200, Tristan Van Berkom wrote: Alternative proposal: lets deal with the problem at hand and get our story straight about what is planet.gnome.org, what can be posted there (i.e. no porn and vulgar language etc.) and how

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-26 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Other than Telsa and partially Ross, have any other ones expressed to you or publicly that they left GNOME at least partly because of the tone of discourse? Yes. Or rather, because of the culture which has become GNOME's over the past 5 years or so. And when did

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-26 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Mukund Sivaraman wrote: Dave, you left the GIMP project because of issues with a contributor. Do you really think that person would have been deterred from behaving so, if he/she had signed such a document? He would not have signed any such document - he would have found the idea

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-26 Thread Philip Van Hoof
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 22:48 +, Alan Cox wrote: 1. People speak on their own behalf, not on behalf of GNOME. Unless they ARE talking on behalf of GNOME (say, board, release team, etc), Indeed On things like the planet that can be addressed by suitable tags and styling (as could

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-25 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Lucas Rocha wrote: The GNOME Code of Conduct[1] has been serving very well as an informal guideline for the community but we'd like to make it an official document that new Foundation members are expected to explicitly agree[2] with before being accepted. This way we'll have a common

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-25 Thread Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Lucas Rocha luc...@gnome.org wrote: it's really hard to argue about how we expect our members to behave if there is no official guidelines that members are supposed to comply with. That seems like a cop-out to me, at least as phrased. Does this mean if there's

Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership

2009-11-25 Thread Mukund Sivaraman
Hi Lucas On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:48:45PM +, Lucas Rocha wrote: The GNOME Code of Conduct[1] has been serving very well as an informal guideline for the community but we'd like to make it an official document that new Foundation members are expected to explicitly agree[2] with before

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