Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
Benjamin Berg wrote: ... > You are repeatedly insisting, that the Code of Conduct (CoC) committee > will never make use of these far reaching powers (only stopping at > permanent sanctions such as "removal of Foundation membership"). All I'm saying is that, in practical terms, the code of conduct committee isn't likely to remove someone from a hackfest, because it's not going to be at hackfests in the first place. > I find this rather contradictory. Why would the Board explicitly grant > such far reaching powers, if it does not expect the committee to ever > use them? > > If the Board trusts local organisers to collaborate with the CoC > committee and decide on sanctions together with them, then these powers > are not necessary. Yet, the Board has chosen to explicitly grant these > powers, meaning that organisers are instead compelled to implement > decisions by the committee. This appears to imply a distrust against > organisers to live up to their responsibilities. I can't answer this on behalf of the board: first, because we have a new board and second, because I don't remember the previous board discussing these precise questions. My personal view is that it makes sense for the committee to have these powers, since formal responsibility for maintaining the code of conduct at GNOME events should rest with the Foundation. It also allows the committee to act at a supra-event level - for example, if someone needs to be banned from future events. It's got nothing to do with distrust for event organisers. In future messages, please clearly state which questions are being addressed to the current Board of Directors. Allan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
On Fri, 2018-07-20 at 18:18 +0100, Allan Day wrote: > Benjamin Berg wrote: > ... > > However, I don't think your response clearly answers my question. And I > > do think it is important to understand possible implications of Board > > decisions as they may directly affect community members who organise > > events. > > > > My current understanding of your response is, that the CoC committee > > holds the all of the above powers for all "GNOME events" (unless maybe > > an explicit exception has been made). Is that interpretation correct? > > That's my understanding (but again, that's a purely formal reading - I > don't see it happening in practice). You are repeatedly insisting, that the Code of Conduct (CoC) committee will never make use of these far reaching powers (only stopping at permanent sanctions such as "removal of Foundation membership"). I find this rather contradictory. Why would the Board explicitly grant such far reaching powers, if it does not expect the committee to ever use them? If the Board trusts local organisers to collaborate with the CoC committee and decide on sanctions together with them, then these powers are not necessary. Yet, the Board has chosen to explicitly grant these powers, meaning that organisers are instead compelled to implement decisions by the committee. This appears to imply a distrust against organisers to live up to their responsibilities. > … Benjamin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
Benjamin Berg wrote: ... > However, I don't think your response clearly answers my question. And I > do think it is important to understand possible implications of Board > decisions as they may directly affect community members who organise > events. > > My current understanding of your response is, that the CoC committee > holds the all of the above powers for all "GNOME events" (unless maybe > an explicit exception has been made). Is that interpretation correct? That's my understanding (but again, that's a purely formal reading - I don't see it happening in practice). ... > Does these mean that "Section V: Data retention" is purely a suggestion > that events should adopt? As I understand it right now, the consequence > would be that all "GNOME events" are free to adopt a data retention > policy of their choosing. Guidelines are a bit more than suggestions, in my view. That said, it's true that these would probably be more binding if they were hosted elsewhere. There might be other data retention policies that apply; I'm not sure about that. > > That said, my view is that, if a hackfest organiser is aware of a > > serious incident at their event, they ought to inform the Code of > > Conduct Committee. > > There have been discussions in the past that this may trigger data > protection and export regulations. Is there an official opinion on > whether such regulations are relevant, and, if yes, whether small > events may be expected to e.g. sign a contract with the Foundation to > ensure such data exchange can happen legally. I'm not aware of a requirement for small events to sign such contracts. I haven't looked at these issues since we drafted the Events Code of Conduct, and there has been movement in that area subsequently. Allan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
On Thu, 2018-07-19 at 11:21 +0100, Allan Day wrote: > [I'm replying as someone who helped to draft the CoC, and who was on > the board when it was approved. The CoC committee is responsible for > applying the code, and we have a new board now.] > > Benjamin Berg wrote: > ... > > The Code of Conduct Committee charter[1] explicitly grants committee > > members the following rights for any "GNOME event": > > > > * Issuing warnings > > * Banning individuals from events > > * Halting or cancelling talks > > * Removing individual privileges and responsibilities > > > > In how far are these rights applicable to Hackfests? > > The board voted in favour of this charter, as written. "GNOME events" > include hackfests. However, in practical terms, it isn't envisaged > that members of the CoC committee will be at hackfests. If the > committee receives a report, it is probably only going to be able to > respond after the event has ended, so I'm not sure how many of these > powers would apply. I agree that this is more of a theoretical question rather than something that is likely to happen soon. However, I don't think your response clearly answers my question. And I do think it is important to understand possible implications of Board decisions as they may directly affect community members who organise events. My current understanding of your response is, that the CoC committee holds the all of the above powers for all "GNOME events" (unless maybe an explicit exception has been made). Is that interpretation correct? > > The response guidelines[2] state: > > > > "It is your responsibility to make a record of any Code of Conduct > > violations you become aware of, and to share those records with the > > Code of Conduct Committee." > > > > Is this a requirement for hackfest organisers? > > The incident response guidelines are guidelines, rather than a hard > set of rules. They were primarily written with the Code of Conduct > committee and code of conduct teams in mind. So formally speaking, I > wouldn't say that the guideline you've quoted is a requirement. That sounds reasonable in principle. Does these mean that "Section V: Data retention" is purely a suggestion that events should adopt? As I understand it right now, the consequence would be that all "GNOME events" are free to adopt a data retention policy of their choosing. > That said, my view is that, if a hackfest organiser is aware of a > serious incident at their event, they ought to inform the Code of > Conduct Committee. There have been discussions in the past that this may trigger data protection and export regulations. Is there an official opinion on whether such regulations are relevant, and, if yes, whether small events may be expected to e.g. sign a contract with the Foundation to ensure such data exchange can happen legally. Benjamin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
[I'm replying as someone who helped to draft the CoC, and who was on the board when it was approved. The CoC committee is responsible for applying the code, and we have a new board now.] Benjamin Berg wrote: ... > The Code of Conduct Committee charter[1] explicitly grants committee > members the following rights for any "GNOME event": > > * Issuing warnings > * Banning individuals from events > * Halting or cancelling talks > * Removing individual privileges and responsibilities > > In how far are these rights applicable to Hackfests? The board voted in favour of this charter, as written. "GNOME events" include hackfests. However, in practical terms, it isn't envisaged that members of the CoC committee will be at hackfests. If the committee receives a report, it is probably only going to be able to respond after the event has ended, so I'm not sure how many of these powers would apply. > The response guidelines[2] state: > > "It is your responsibility to make a record of any Code of Conduct > violations you become aware of, and to share those records with the > Code of Conduct Committee." > > Is this a requirement for hackfest organisers? The incident response guidelines are guidelines, rather than a hard set of rules. They were primarily written with the Code of Conduct committee and code of conduct teams in mind. So formally speaking, I wouldn't say that the guideline you've quoted is a requirement. That said, my view is that, if a hackfest organiser is aware of a serious incident at their event, they ought to inform the Code of Conduct Committee. Allan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
On Wed, 2018-07-18 at 10:04 +0100, Allan Day wrote: > Benjamin Berg wrote: > ... > > How does the decided event Code of Conduct and related > > policies/decisions affect Hackfests organised by community members? > > This is explained in > https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/New#Who_is_responsible_for_what.3F > > There's some outstanding work to improve the response guidelines, so > they are more appropriate for hackfest organisers. The Code of Conduct Committee charter[1] explicitly grants committee members the following rights for any "GNOME event": * Issuing warnings * Banning individuals from events * Halting or cancelling talks * Removing individual privileges and responsibilities In how far are these rights applicable to Hackfests? The response guidelines[2] state: "It is your responsibility to make a record of any Code of Conduct violations you become aware of, and to share those records with the Code of Conduct Committee." Is this a requirement for hackfest organisers? Benjamin [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/CodeOfConductCommittee [2] https://wiki.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Committee/ResponseGuidelines signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
Benjamin Berg wrote: ... > How does the decided event Code of Conduct and related > policies/decisions affect Hackfests organised by community members? This is explained in https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/New#Who_is_responsible_for_what.3F There's some outstanding work to improve the response guidelines, so they are more appropriate for hackfest organisers. Allan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Events Code of Conduct: Effects on Hackfests
On Sat, 2018-07-07 at 12:25 +0200, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Fri, 2018-07-06 at 16:58 +0200, Benjamin Berg wrote: > > > > I have a number of questions about the events Code of Conduct. Is > > there another way to submit questions rather than only during the AGM? > > You can ask here or to code-of-conduct-commit...@gnome.org :) Hi, I should have asked a few more questions during the AGM on this topic. But, the offer is there, so I'll start posting questions here. How does the decided event Code of Conduct and related policies/decisions affect Hackfests organised by community members? Benjamin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
