Re: [fpc-other] Re downward spiral
On 2023-06-02 02:58, Steve Litt via fpc-other wrote: HSN via fpc-other said on Wed, 31 May 2023 21:50:20 + I will continue to maintain a high quality place to discuss fpc for those who need it. . . Everyone else: If you want a non stressful, non judgmental venue in which to get quick answers, check out #fpc-alt for ontopic, and ##fpc-alt for offtopic. Thanks to both Steve and Joanna for letting FPC users know the alternatives. I'd like to ask everybody not to continue the discussion about moderation styles - I believe that anybody interested in details can easily find all the arguments and opinions in the mailing list archive and there's no reason to repeat them here. Tomas (putting my mailing list moderator hat on :-) ) ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re downward spiral
HSN via fpc-other said on Wed, 31 May 2023 21:50:20 + >I will continue to maintain a high quality place to discuss fpc for >those who need it. In the preceding sentence, the word "continue" is misleading. If you want to *start* to maintain a high quality place to discuss fpc for those who need it, then you would: 1) Quit treating it like the Joanna fan club. 2) Quit harassing people who come there with entrance examinations. 3) Quit banning people who insult nobody and mind their own business, or people who object to your current aggressive behavior on #fpc. Everyone else: If you want a non stressful, non judgmental venue in which to get quick answers, check out #fpc-alt for ontopic, and ##fpc-alt for offtopic. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re downward spiral
Tomas Hajny via fpc-other said on Wed, 31 May 2023 00:24:44 +0200 >On 2023-05-30 02:24, HSN via fpc-other wrote: >> Tomas I’m curious if you have ever been to irc at all? If so can you >> elaborate on your experiences there? > . > . > >No, I will not elaborate on my experiences, because it's completely >unrelated to my arguments (similarly to the remainder of your >message), and I will not continue in this discussion either, >regardless from how much you pretend as if IRC were the only relevant >and/or valuable support channel. Hi Tomas, IRC isn't for everyone, but it's a *very* good way to get instant answers to short questions, always assuming it's run competently, which #fpc unfortunately isn't. In no way am I asking you to elaborate, continue, or try out IRC: You have work to do. I'm writing this only so other people might see IRC as a possible positive, in spite of Joanna's tude. SteveT ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re downward spiral
On 2023-05-30 02:24, HSN via fpc-other wrote: Tomas I’m curious if you have ever been to irc at all? If so can you elaborate on your experiences there? . . No, I will not elaborate on my experiences, because it's completely unrelated to my arguments (similarly to the remainder of your message), and I will not continue in this discussion either, regardless from how much you pretend as if IRC were the only relevant and/or valuable support channel. Tomas ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re downward spiral
On 2023-05-29 04:55, HSN via fpc-other wrote: Hi, I’d like to say, just because a bunch of people follow a trend doesn’t mean that’s a good idea. History is full of stories about foolish people following trends and bad ideas which lead to their demise. . . I don't tell anybody to follow the trends. I just state that the reasons of your supposed "downward spiral" are different from those you blame and that regardless of my or your preferences or thoughts about those trends, reverting them is less than likely... Tomas ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re Downward spiral
HSN via fpc-other said on Sat, 27 May 2023 12:05:42 + >I want to let you know >thatNickolay is both a Lazarus developer and the owner of #fpc on >Libera irc. Nicolay is well known in this community. Everyone who >appreciates the work that he does should help support his channel >whenever they have a chance and hopefully chat with him when he is >online. There is also the #fpc-dev channel on Libera to meet at. It's kind of hard for the 31 of us who are banned to support Nicolay by chatting on his channel. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re Downward spiral
Tomas Hajny via fpc-other said on Sun, 28 May 2023 17:12:23 +0200 >Both >forums and mailing lists provide higher chances to get response from >one of the FPC core team members in case of complex issues where >support of other FPC users and developers may not be sufficient. True. However, in a well attended IRC channel run in a reasonable manner, answers to simple questions come through much quicker with IRC than with forums and mailing lists. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Re Downward spiral
On 2023-05-27 14:05, HSN via fpc-other wrote: Joanna, . . One of the ways that they can do this is by helping other users in real-time chat. I suspect that many people who use fpc/Lazarus are either unaware of irc real-time chat, have been chased away by people sabotaging it or have been discouraged from trying it by people who want this project to fail. . . I'm sorry to say that, but your continuing attempts to blame external enemies for limited/declining IRC channel popularity rather than accepting or at least just considering repeated arguments clearly showing other reasons won't change anything. See e.g. the Wikipedia article about IRC showing clear trends (unrelated to FPC). The reasons of these general trends should be very understandable for people with good analytical skills (as expected for most developers). . . People using project are more likely listen to the advice of developers that announce where the chat channel is than someone whom they don’t know promoting a channel. I want to let you know that Nickolay is both a Lazarus developer and the owner of #fpc on Libera irc. Nicolay is well known in this community. Everyone who appreciates the work that he does should help support his channel whenever they have a chance and hopefully chat with him when he is online. There is also the #fpc-dev channel on Libera to meet at. Nikolay and Charlie, two FPC core team members at least occasionally joining IRC, both explicitly confirmed that their IRC availability had been limited, which was one of the reasons why the FPC core team decided that no IRC channel should be considered as official. Both forums and mailing lists provide higher chances to get response from one of the FPC core team members in case of complex issues where support of other FPC users and developers may not be sufficient. There are no guarantees to get answer for just any question for any of the channels (it's a hobby project and nobody gets paid for support), but the probability is clear (chances for finding a solution is further improved by possibility to search through previous discussions in the forum or the mailing list archive). Obviously, anybody can still use whatever channel meeting their needs and preferences and people providing support in whatever channel rather than just seeking for help with their own issues are very welcome in any case regardless from the used channel, but that doesn't change the overall situation. Tomas ___ fpc-other maillist - [email protected] https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
