Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Karoly Balogh via fpc-pascal]

Hi,

On Thu, 5 Dec 2024, Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal wrote:

> On Dec 5, 2024 at 12:27:37 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal 
>  wrote:
>   Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
>   minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
>   something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be 
> recompled...)
>
>   Ryan, if you wish to help, please try to create the smallest possible
>   example that demonstrates the issue.
>
> Yes I tried already and failed but it’s on my TODO list now.

Have you tried using the -vv command line argument and looking at the
generated fpcdebug.txt? Maybe it gives some hints why the compiler decides
to recompile certain units.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal]

 On Dec 5, 2024 at 12:27:37 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal <
fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote:

> Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
> minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
> something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be
> recompled...)
>
> Ryan, if you wish to help, please try to create the smallest possible
> example that demonstrates the issue.


Yes I tried already and failed but it’s on my TODO list now.

Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Sven Barth via fpc-pascal]

Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal 
schrieb am Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 21:52:

>
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:
>
> > Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal 
> > schrieb am Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 18:24:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> @Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that
> >> it
> >>> tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I
> did
> >>> not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
> >>> pre-task code).
> >>
> >> Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
> >> minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
> >> something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be
> >> recompled...)
> >>
> >
> > I don't know if you consider it more minimal, but compiling the compiler
> > seems to do the trick as well :P (though I haven't made sure whether it's
> > really the same issue yet)
>
> Well, partially compiling the compiler has never worked for me, even
> before the
> change to task (I'm on linux 64bit).
>
> So I'm inclined to think this is something different...
>

I do that regularly (crashes/internal errors mainly occur there if
something in the interface section of some highly used unit changed). And I
noticed quite a difference in compilation duration between 3.2.2 and 3.3.1
🤔

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal 
schrieb am Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 18:24:






@Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that

it

tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I did
not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
pre-task code).


Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be
recompled...)



I don't know if you consider it more minimal, but compiling the compiler
seems to do the trick as well :P (though I haven't made sure whether it's
really the same issue yet)


Well, partially compiling the compiler has never worked for me, even before the
change to task (I'm on linux 64bit).

So I'm inclined to think this is something different...

Michael.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Adriaan van Os via fpc-pascal]

Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:
Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal > schrieb am Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 
13:56:


Were there known changes in that area since March 3rd 2023? Honestly
they were causing so many crashes maybe they got pulled for
incremental building. I’d rather take the crashes though then what I
have now.


The likely candidate is the reworked module loading that still has its 
problems.


Same here. With fpc-3.2.2 a full build is always necesssary, because of the internal errors that 
occur with partial builds. On the other hand, fpc-3.3.1 does a lot of (seemingly unnecessary) compiles.


Regards,

Adriaan van Os

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Sven Barth via fpc-pascal]

Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 14:24:

> On Dec 4, 2024 at 8:13:08 PM, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal <
> fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote:
>
>> The likely candidate is the reworked module loading that still has its
>> problems.
>>
>> @Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that
>> it tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I
>> did not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
>> pre-task code).
>>
>
> Indeed. Do you know what commit that was? I’d try rolling back again and
> seeing if I can figure out why that module is crashing the compiler. Maybe
> it’s fixable but I’m not sure.
>

I don't have a specific commit right now, but essentially when the
compiler/ctask.pas unit was added.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Sven Barth via fpc-pascal]

Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal 
schrieb am Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 18:24:

>
>
> >
> > @Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that
> it
> > tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I did
> > not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
> > pre-task code).
>
> Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
> minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
> something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be
> recompled...)
>

I don't know if you consider it more minimal, but compiling the compiler
seems to do the trick as well :P (though I haven't made sure whether it's
really the same issue yet)

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:


Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 13:56:


Were there known changes in that area since March 3rd 2023? Honestly they
were causing so many crashes maybe they got pulled for incremental
building. I’d rather take the crashes though then what I have now.



The likely candidate is the reworked module loading that still has its
problems.


Seems likely.



@Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that it
tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I did
not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
pre-task code).


Yes, this is still on my todo list. The main problem is to have a really
minimal example that demonstrates the issue. (and with minimal I mean
something that doesn't require half the packages or lazarus to be recompled...)

Ryan, if you wish to help, please try to create the smallest possible
example that demonstrates the issue.

Michael.___
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal]

 On Dec 4, 2024 at 8:13:08 PM, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal <
fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote:

> The likely candidate is the reworked module loading that still has its
> problems.
>
> @Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that it
> tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I did
> not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
> pre-task code).
>

Indeed. Do you know what commit that was? I’d try rolling back again and
seeing if I can figure out why that module is crashing the compiler. Maybe
it’s fixable but I’m not sure.

I’ve tried to reproduce it but I haven’t found a way yet because there’s
too many confounding factors and too much code.

Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Sven Barth via fpc-pascal]

Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mi., 4. Dez. 2024, 13:56:

> Were there known changes in that area since March 3rd 2023? Honestly they
> were causing so many crashes maybe they got pulled for incremental
> building. I’d rather take the crashes though then what I have now.
>

The likely candidate is the reworked module loading that still has its
problems.

@Michael: do you think you can take a look? I also got the feeling that it
tries to compile more while nothing changed than with 3.2.2, though I did
not yet have the time to nail this down more (or to compare it with the
pre-task code).

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal]

 On Dec 4, 2024 at 6:29:36 PM, Hairy Pixels  wrote:

> My only thought is that my  project makes extensive use of multi helpers
> and implicit function specialization both of which were causing serious
> crashes in the compiler (I think they were the cause at least). I’m talking
> you change a top level file which all other files depend on and the
> compilers crashes on 5+ units which each need to be saved then recompiled
> to fix the crashes.
>

Sorry for all the noise. Did some tests and it looks like “uses” in the
implementation section are what changed. When I start adding those in it
re-compiles everything every time.

Were there known changes in that area since March 3rd 2023? Honestly they
were causing so many crashes maybe they got pulled for incremental
building. I’d rather take the crashes though then what I have now.

Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal]

 On Dec 4, 2024 at 6:29:36 PM, Hairy Pixels  wrote:

> I’m going to have to rollback and use my old version because it’s not
> usable like. Event going to 4 second build times if you change a single
> line is too painful.
>

and I just tried to rollback and the compiler crashes now on a particular
file (the assembler it looks like). So something changed on my system and
it’s not working with older versions. No idea but it looks like I’m stuck
with the slow version now. 😭

Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal]

 On Dec 4, 2024 at 6:22:12 PM, James Richters via fpc-pascal <
fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote:

> I don’t know what causes this, but I have experienced the same issue.
> Just loading the IDE takes like 30 seconds on a version I installed in 2023
> and another in early 2024, and those also compile much slower, but I just
> installed it again last week and the new version installed is fast again..
> but if I run the ones from earlier they are still slow.  I also note that
> when I run the slow versions, I can always exit out and run 3.2.2 and it’s
> almost instant.. so it’s not anything on my system.
> I’m doing my installs with FPCUPDeluxe.  I did update that this last time
> so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with why it’s working so well
> now.
>
> James


My only thought is that my  project makes extensive use of multi helpers
and implicit function specialization both of which were causing serious
crashes in the compiler (I think they were the cause at least). I’m talking
you change a top level file which all other files depend on and the
compilers crashes on 5+ units which each need to be saved then recompiled
to fix the crashes.

I wonder if they changed something regarding this. I searched for all
commits with “helper” in them since my previous version and didn’t see
anything which stood out to me but it’s hard to know.

I’m going to have to rollback and use my old version because it’s not
usable like. Event going to 4 second build times if you change a single
line is too painful.

When I have some time I’ll try to make a project which lots of multi
helpers and see if those trigger crashes in the old compiler and maybe
that’s a clue to the compiler people to know if they fixed this or not.
Don’t know what else to do.

Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version

[James Richters via fpc-pascal]

I don’t know what causes this, but I have experienced the same issue.  Just 
loading the IDE takes like 30 seconds on a version I installed in 2023 and 
another in early 2024, and those also compile much slower, but I just installed 
it again last week and the new version installed is fast again.. but if I run 
the ones from earlier they are still slow.  I also note that when I run the 
slow versions, I can always exit out and run 3.2.2 and it’s almost instant.. so 
it’s not anything on my system. 
I’m doing my installs with FPCUPDeluxe.  I did update that this last time so 
I’m not sure if that has anything to do with why it’s working so well now.

James
 
From: fpc-pascal  On Behalf Of Hairy 
Pixels via fpc-pascal
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2024 11:09 PM
To: FPC-Pascal discussions 
Cc: Hairy Pixels 
Subject: [fpc-pascal] Incremental compiling not working in new version
 
I just noticed I didn’t update my compiler since 2023/03/03 and finally did so 
today. After making some required changes I noticed the compile times went down 
 from basically instant (after being fully built once) to taking 4+ seconds 
every build.
 
Looking at the output it looks to me like it’s not loading the PPU files and 
recompiling nearly everything every time. Did something change I could 
investigate? 
 
The only changes I needed to make were "Visibilities of members of generic 
specializations” from 
https://wiki.freepascal.org/User_Changes_Trunk#Visibilities_of_members_of_generic_specializations
 but that doesnt’ seem related.
 
 


Regards,
Ryan Joseph
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