Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-31 Thread Mike Wickham
According to Israeli tax law, if I purchase a perpetual license for a software application, it's a capital expense. I have to depreciate the purchase over several years. I cannot deduct the full expense from this year's tax return. If I pay a smaller fee for an annual subscription license, I

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-31 Thread Mike Wickham
>> According to Israeli tax law, if I purchase a perpetual license for a software application, it's a capital expense. I have to depreciate the purchase over several years. I cannot deduct the full expense from this year's tax return. If I pay a smaller fee for an annual subscription license, I

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-23 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Indeed, yes. Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing marketing expenditure (e.g. the "standardised" UI) and PR, and feature bloat in place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
Sims mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com ljsims...@gmail.com Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:20 PM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription To: Robert Lauriston mailto:rob...@lauriston.com rob...@lauriston.com Cc: mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Writer
Truth in Advertising Disclosure: I am biased. I am a reseller for a software application that is sold mainly by subscription (WebWorks ePublisher). But I purchase other software by subscription, and I prefer it. But even WebWorks offers a perpetual license so that when you stop buying the

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
: Shmuel Wolfson shmue...@gmail.com Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Paula Stern pa...@writepoint.com If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year--

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
The law is the same here, but we have a generous Section 179 deduction that most businesses can use to deduct 100% of all capital expenses each year. I believe there are also some other temporary stimulus provisions in place that allow other methods of deducting the full 100%. The

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Dave.Stamm
Of Mike Wickham Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Richard Doll
of Oklahoma City. Scrooge Graphic Communications sgmli...@tds.net - Original Message - From: Shlomo Perets To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Just signed the petition

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Indeed, yes. Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing marketing expenditure (e.g. the standardised UI) and PR, and feature bloat in place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they need

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Bethany Lee
Cool! Signed! Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription revenues aren't lower than expected. You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Robert Lauriston
In the US, you can choose not to depreciate software, provided it meets certain conditions and you haven't exceeded certain limits: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch02.html For WebWorks, for me the subscription model penciled out as cheaper in the long run. We have to update our browser

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Alastair Dent
I believe this is the same in the UK. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Shaked Sent: 21 May 2013 20:55 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Robert Lauriston
No, the WebWorks subscription expires, just like a trial version. It'll be another $800 (or whatever) in a year or the software will stop working. A perpetual license is available, but it's considerably more expensive. On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote: Truth in

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Writer
No, the WebWorks subscription expires, just like a trial version. The subscription ends after the four upgrades are released, but if you purchased the perpetual license, you do not lose your ability to use the software even though you do not receive any more upgrades. It'll be another $800

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Done and FB'd. Alan On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: > Yes, please sign and pass it on: > http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model > > > Regards, > Shmuel Wolfson > Technical Writer > 052-763-7133 > --

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
- From: Lin Sims < <mailto:ljsims.ml at gmail.com> ljsims...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:20 PM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription To: Robert Lauriston < <mailto:robert at lauriston.com> robert at lauriston.com> Cc: <mail

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Writer
>Truth in Advertising Disclosure: I am biased. I am a reseller for a software >application that is sold mainly by subscription (WebWorks ePublisher). But I >purchase other software by subscription, and I prefer it. But even WebWorks offers a perpetual license so that when you stop buying the

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
-- From: Shmuel Wolfson <shmue...@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Cc: Paula Stern If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying i

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
> I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year--

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
The law is the same here, but we have a generous Section 179 deduction that most businesses can use to deduct 100% of all capital expenses each year. I believe there are also some other temporary "stimulus" provisions in place that allow other methods of deducting the full 100%. The

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread dave.st...@gdc4s.com
eusers.com] On Behalf Of Mike Wickham Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35 To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Richard Doll
more $$. beware of stuff that emanates within clouds If in doubt . . . ask a resident of Oklahoma City. Scrooge Graphic Communications sgmlindy at tds.net - Original Message - From: Shlomo Perets To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM Subject:

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Alastair Dent
I believe this is the same in the UK. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Shaked Sent: 21 May 2013 20:55 To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Robert Lauriston
No, the WebWorks subscription expires, just like a trial version. It'll be another $800 (or whatever) in a year or the software will stop working. A perpetual license is available, but it's considerably more expensive. On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Writer wrote: >>Truth in Advertising

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-22 Thread Writer
> No, the WebWorks subscription expires, just like a trial version. The subscription ends after the four upgrades are released, but if you purchased the perpetual license, you do not lose your ability to use the software even though you do not receive any more upgrades. > It'll be another

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote:

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shlomo Perets
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre,

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Carol J. Elkins
Here's mine: I want the availability of my software to be independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need is to lose access to the tools that are required to generate my income. I want it to be MY decision as to when I update my software,

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Done and FB'd. Alan On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 -- AlphaByte PO Box

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tammy Van Boening
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tori Muir
...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-21 Thread David Shaked
An aspect I haven't seen mentioned in this thread: taxes According to Israeli tax law, if I purchase a perpetual license for a software application, it's a capital expense. I have to depreciate the purchase over several years. I cannot deduct the full expense from this year's tax return. If I

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: >Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View >of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) >makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, >TCS/FrameMaker

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: > At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: >

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shlomo Perets
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: "It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre,

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Carol J. Elkins
Here's mine: I want the availability of my software to be independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need is to lose access to the tools that are required to generate my income. I want it to be MY decision as to when I update my software, not

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tammy Van Boening
at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tori Muir
essage- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subsc

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-21 Thread David Shaked
An aspect I haven't seen mentioned in this thread: taxes According to Israeli tax law, if I purchase a perpetual license for a software application, it's a capital expense. I have to depreciate the purchase over several years. I cannot deduct the full expense from this year's tax return. If I

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Bethany Lee
Cool! Signed! Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription revenues aren't lower than expected. You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message.

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-21 Thread Robert Lauriston
In the US, you can choose not to depreciate software, provided it meets certain conditions and you haven't exceeded certain limits: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch02.html For WebWorks, for me the subscription model penciled out as cheaper in the long run. We have to update our browser

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Karen Robbins
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe’s View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen ___ You

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS

RE: pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-20 Thread Craig Ede
unimpressed by that. Maybe that didn't cover this pod thing. Craig Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:36:11 -0700 Subject: Re: pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription From: rob...@lauriston.com To: framers

Re: pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-20 Thread Robert Lauriston
Well, yes, that was the problem. Two UI objects have the same name but one is a subset of the other. Why would I expect that? Why does the default workspace show some of the crappy ones instead of all of the more capable ones? Why don't the limited ones have buttons that expand them into the more

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-20 Thread Lin Sims
I'm working on FM10, and those pods exist. Use them every day, and I love them. On the menu bar, click View > Pods and then choose Insets, Cross-References, Conditional Text, Variables, and Markers. Lin On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote: > Are you sure those features are

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Karen Robbins
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe?s View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen -- next part -- An HTML

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS

pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-20 Thread Craig Ede
unimpressed by that. Maybe that didn't cover this pod thing. Craig > Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:36:11 -0700 > Subject: Re: pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: > OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription > From: robert at lauriston.com &

pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-20 Thread Robert Lauriston
Well, yes, that was the problem. Two UI objects have the same name but one is a subset of the other. Why would I expect that? Why does the default workspace show some of the crappy ones instead of all of the more capable ones? Why don't the limited ones have buttons that expand them into the more

Re: pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-19 Thread Robert Lauriston
Wow. The same command on two different menus brings up different UIs for the same feature? I guess I'll have to try all of the entries on the Pods menu to see what else I've missed. Does that mean the old UI for applying conditional text is still around somewhere? I found that much more

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-18 Thread Robert Lauriston
What's different about markers or cross-references in FM11? In FM10, the pods behave slightly differently than the ancient dialogs as far as placing them on screen (e.g. they won't stay where I put them), but functionally I think they're unchanged as far back as I've been using FM and probably

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-18 Thread Robert Lauriston
Are you sure those features are FM10? That's what I use and I've never seen those. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Alexandra Duffy adu...@vectorworks.netwrote: This is what is great, (to me, anyway) – [pasted two graphics which won’t come through to the list] ** ** ** **

pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-18 Thread Craig Ede
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription Are you sure those features are FM10? That's what I use and I've never seen those. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Alexandra Duffy wrote: This is what is great, (to me, anyway) - [pasted two graphics which won't come t

pod for displaying and sorting lists of markers, xrefs etc. WAS: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-18 Thread Robert Lauriston
Wow. The same command on two different menus brings up different UIs for the same feature? I guess I'll have to try all of the entries on the Pods menu to see what else I've missed. Does that mean the old UI for applying conditional text is still around somewhere? I found that much more

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Alexandra Duffy
: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Message-ID: CAN3Yy4DDAf=Z1XT8d0uW1nrBus1sBzsDrDknY+69weLOU=B4BQ@ mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-17 Thread Alan T Litchfield
ces at > lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:31 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only > > Customers value a business based on the goods or serv

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Alexandra Duffy
stuff work for some people or corporations, fine - but give us the choice if it is not how we want to do business. Alexandra > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 08:11:47 -0700 > From: Robert Lauriston > To: Maxwell Hoffmann , > framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subjec

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Alexandra Duffy
t; Behalf Of Robert Lauriston > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 1:46 PM > To: Alexandra Duffy; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription > > What's different about markers or cross-references in FM11? > > In

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Robert Lauriston
What's different about markers or cross-references in FM11? In FM10, the pods behave slightly differently than the ancient dialogs as far as placing them on screen (e.g. they won't stay where I put them), but functionally I think they're unchanged as far back as I've been using FM and probably

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Robert Lauriston
Are you sure those features are FM10? That's what I use and I've never seen those. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Alexandra Duffy wrote: > This is what is great, (to me, anyway) ? > > [pasted two graphics which won?t come through to the list] > > ** ** > > > > ** ** > > > >

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

2013-05-17 Thread Craig Ede
The graphics came through. There must be email and listserv improvements being made as well! Craig From: adu...@vectorworks.net To: robert at lauriston.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 17:56:51 + CC: framers

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Craig Ede
: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM To: Alan T Litchfield Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Craig Ede
] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Alan T Litchfield
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Adobe already controls piracy using activation. The only difference with the subscription model is that your license has a timeout. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Craig Ede craig...@hotmail.com wrote: The subscription model probably does help them deal with piracy. In that sense, they are

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years? An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level variables, real templates, and

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as new features in later releases. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the statement I thought

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for.  Good point. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. Good point. Nadine Indeed a very good point! For me, book level variables are vital for my specifications ... that is what BookVars from Leximation provides and has yet to be

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Adobe already controls piracy using activation. The only difference with the subscription model is that your license has a timeout. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Craig Ede wrote: > The subscription model probably does help them deal with piracy. In that > sense, they are urging a part of

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years? An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level variables, real templates, and

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as "new features" in later releases. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. > > His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the > statement "I thought was worth

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
>An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the >plug-ins that people are willing to pay for.? Good point. Nadine

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
> >An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the > >plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. > > Good point. > > Nadine Indeed a very good point! For me, book level variables are vital for my specifications ... that is what BookVars from Leximation provides and has yet

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Craig Ede wrote: > Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does > mean that you have access to a given software packa

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM To: Alan T Litchfield Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Forum Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: > ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody e

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe has gone direct to the market. Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Ed Nodland
I think my response is far from the mission of this forum but the statement below just hooked me, it is also a nice diversion from the daily work to read all the responses, and I bet our thoughts trickle back into Adobe. A previous post said: The problem with customers is that they cost money to

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Harro de Jong harro.dej...@triviewgroup.com wrote: The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever ... Maybe licensed resellers have to return all old software when a new version is released, but the FrameMaker 10 license allows you to sell your rights: You

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: The purpose of business is

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Thanks. Those are the corporate resellers I was referring to previously. The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe has gone direct to the market. The added value is worked out in terms

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I > referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe > has gone direct to the market. Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 07:11 +1200 13/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You know, retail channel? Not shops as such: my understanding is that they sell Adobe products and also training. I have dealt with two recently: Certitec and Phoenix Software.

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Johnson
Adobe introduces subscription-based licensing. So many of its users find it an outstanding value that over time, most of them license software by subscription. Adobe is rewarded for being innovative and Adobe serves its customers better. Everybody wins. Adobe ends its relationship with resellers

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Robert Lauriston
One benefit of the subscription model is that a company can focus 100% on the current and next releases. That should significantly reduce support costs, eliminates the cost of providing and distributing patch releases for old versions, and reduces various other costs due to reduced complexity. On

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Johnson
That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. You're side of the mark about

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Harro de Jong
Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count on (and not some changing version of it). Also, given that license, they cannot revoke your ability of use the software in that

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