Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

[Pat Christenson]

Thanks for the reminder!

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Pat Christenson 
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson 
mailto:pat.christen...@morningstar.com>> wrote:
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves 
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and 
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of that 
maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the user 
guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men will 
cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com]
 On Behalf Of 
r...@weststreetconsulting.com
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this 
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com"
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 
mailto:can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help, or 
personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste time 
explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements, and why 
people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, 
mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> modern practices. ...


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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

[Lin Sims]

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson <
pat.christen...@morningstar.com> wrote:

> Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.
>
> I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves
> creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and
> half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of
> that maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the
> user guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men
> will cross oceans to marvel at.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=
> morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
> r...@weststreetconsulting.com
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
>
>
> Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this
> debate. I should have known better than to even start it.
>
> Russ
>
> --
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston 
> To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com"
> Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
> Message-ID:
>  
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help,
> or personal computers.
>
> Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste
> time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements,
> and why people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM,  wrote:
> > Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> > answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> > anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> > in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> > you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> > modern practices. ...
>
>
> --
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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-- 
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

[Pat Christenson]

Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves 
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and 
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of that 
maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the user 
guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men will 
cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of r...@weststreetconsulting.com
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this 
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help, or 
personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste time 
explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements, and why 
people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM,  wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE 
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content 
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer 
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If 
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to 
> modern practices. ...


--

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Re: [Framers] Ain't that peculiar?

[John Sgammato]

It comes out fine that way. It was the first thing that I checked.
But I'd still like to know what's up!

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> At the risk of igniting an age-old debate: does this happen if you print
> to postscript and distill the .ps file rather than saving as PDF?
>
> Carol
>
> At 02:16 PM 8/2/2016, you wrote:
>
>> A table like any other, with some text rendered invisible when saved as
>> PDF:
>> (You can see that it's there - that's the blue highlighting - just
>> invisible.Same fonts, same para tags and char tags, no conditions)
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>
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-- 

*John Sgammato, Documentation Architect*
*e* john.sgamm...@actifio.com  *c* 508.927.2083
*t* @actifiodocs 

333 Wyman Street, Waltham, MA 02451




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Re: [Framers] Ain't that peculiar?

[Carol J. Elkins]

At the risk of igniting an age-old debate: does this happen if you 
print to postscript and distill the .ps file rather than saving as PDF?


Carol

At 02:16 PM 8/2/2016, you wrote:

A table like any other, with some text rendered invisible when saved as PDF:
(You can see that it's there - that's the blue highlighting - just
invisible.Same fonts, same para tags and char tags, no conditions)
[image: Inline image 1]


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Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

[Tammy Van Boening]

Yep, exactly my experience too.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Monique Semp
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:01 AM
To: Robert Lauriston; Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

>Do I remember correctly that when a cross-reference's target is in
hidden conditional text it will show up in the Unresolved Cross-References
report?

And I seem to get Unresolved Cross-References even when the cross-reference
itself is conditioned-out by the same condition that hides the x-ref target.

At least, that's my assumption, and so I've been ignoring these warnings,
and the PDFs seem fine.

-Monique 

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Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

[Tammy Van Boening]

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
303-840-1755


-Original Message-
From: Tammy Van Boening [mailto:tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:03 AM
To: 'Robert Lauriston'
Subject: RE: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

yea, it will, but here's the rub - for lack of a better term, I have had a
"wonky" experience with this. The report will show "n" number of x-refs, I
will go find those and conditionalize those, and regenerate the book, and
either new x-refs that weren't flagged before appear, or ones that I have
conditionalized sometimes still show in the report even though they are
properly conditionalized, including the pilcrow where appropriate. It
becomes an iterative process and I was just hoping for a fast, one shot deal
that got all the x-refs right the first time.

But, if not possible, then yep, you're right Robert - that would be the way
that I would have to go.



Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 10:56 AM
To: Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

Do I remember correctly that when a cross-reference's target is in hidden
conditional text it will show up in the Unresolved Cross-References report?

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Tammy Van Boening
 wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am writing a User Guide for a large application. In one of the 
> chapters, a specific topic must be conditionalized to Print Only so 
> that is appears in the PDF but not in the Online Help; however, there 
> are many, many places throughout the manual that have x-refs to this 
> particular topic . I need to conditionalize these x-refs to Print Only 
> as well. Trust me, there are tons of them, and short of plodding 
> through each x-ref one at a time in the manual and finding the 
> relevant ones, is there a way to locate only those x-refs to this 
> specific topic? Does this sound like a job for ExtendScript and Rick?
> (along the riff of "This sounds like a job for Superman!" :-))
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Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

[Monique Semp]

Do I remember correctly that when a cross-reference's target is in

hidden conditional text it will show up in the Unresolved
Cross-References report?

And I seem to get Unresolved Cross-References even when the cross-reference 
itself is conditioned-out by the same condition that hides the x-ref target. 
At least, that's my assumption, and so I've been ignoring these warnings, 
and the PDFs seem fine.


-Monique 


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Re: [Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

[Robert Lauriston]

Do I remember correctly that when a cross-reference's target is in
hidden conditional text it will show up in the Unresolved
Cross-References report?

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Tammy Van Boening
 wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am writing a User Guide for a large application. In one of the chapters, a
> specific topic must be conditionalized to Print Only so that is appears in
> the PDF but not in the Online Help; however, there are many, many places
> throughout the manual that have x-refs to this particular topic . I need to
> conditionalize these x-refs to Print Only as well. Trust me, there are tons
> of them, and short of plodding through each x-ref one at a time in the
> manual and finding the relevant ones, is there a way to locate only those
> x-refs to this specific topic? Does this sound like a job for ExtendScript
> and Rick? (along the riff of "This sounds like a job for Superman!" :-))
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[Framers] Determining the locations of specific x-refs

[Tammy Van Boening]

Hi All,

I am writing a User Guide for a large application. In one of the chapters, a
specific topic must be conditionalized to Print Only so that is appears in
the PDF but not in the Online Help; however, there are many, many places
throughout the manual that have x-refs to this particular topic . I need to
conditionalize these x-refs to Print Only as well. Trust me, there are tons
of them, and short of plodding through each x-ref one at a time in the
manual and finding the relevant ones, is there a way to locate only those
x-refs to this specific topic? Does this sound like a job for ExtendScript
and Rick? (along the riff of "This sounds like a job for Superman!" :-))


Thanks all,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com




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