date:20191213

Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Rick Quatro

Fantastic! Thanks for the feedback.

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Doug
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 3:27 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Captions

Thanks for that tip, Rick.  It works brilliantly, and it's so simple I'm
surprised I didn't think of it.

Doug

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 12:13 PM Rick Quatro  wrote:

> I am not sure how your document is set up, but I have done something 
> like
> this:
>
> paragraph format: "anchor" with autonumber F: and color White. 
> This is the paragraph that has the anchored frame.
> paragraph format: "caption" with autonumber F:Figure .
>
> All of my cross-references point to the anchor paragraph.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> r...@frameexpert.com
> 585-729-6746
> www.frameexpert.com/store/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> 
> On
> Behalf Of Doug
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 11:55 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Captions
>
> My shop's standard is to (sigh) put the captions below the objects.  
> My workaround for this is to put a xref link above the object.  This 
> works well, except the object name/number in the xref link doesn't 
> update automatically if the caption changes.  (This is the reason for 
> one of my feature requests I've submitted.)
>
> I was hoping I'd overlooked an easy solution to ensure my caption 
> names/numbers in the xref links would stay updated automagically.
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > Frame goes to where you put the cross-reference marker, so yes, if 
> > you want the graphic to be visible when you jump to it, you have to 
> > put the marker above the graphic. Frame only has one type of 
> > cross-reference marker; there is no way for the program to 
> > distinguish between "this place in the text", "this caption above a 
> > graphic", or
> "this
> caption below a graphic".
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 8:19 AM Doug  wrote:
> >
> > > Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when 
> > > deciding where to place the caption for an image, table, or 
> > > equation?  The obvious choices are either above the object or below
it.
> > >
> > > Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with 
> > > making cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the 
> > > caption displays
> > at
> > > the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object 
> > > out of sight above the top of the screen in this case.
> > >
> > > It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions 
> > > above the object.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> > > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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> > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
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> > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Doug

Thanks for that tip, Rick.  It works brilliantly, and it's so simple I'm
surprised I didn't think of it.

Doug

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 12:13 PM Rick Quatro  wrote:

> I am not sure how your document is set up, but I have done something like
> this:
>
> paragraph format: "anchor" with autonumber F: and color White. This is
> the paragraph that has the anchored frame.
> paragraph format: "caption" with autonumber F:Figure .
>
> All of my cross-references point to the anchor paragraph.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> r...@frameexpert.com
> 585-729-6746
> www.frameexpert.com/store/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On
> Behalf Of Doug
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 11:55 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Captions
>
> My shop's standard is to (sigh) put the captions below the objects.  My
> workaround for this is to put a xref link above the object.  This works
> well, except the object name/number in the xref link doesn't update
> automatically if the caption changes.  (This is the reason for one of my
> feature requests I've submitted.)
>
> I was hoping I'd overlooked an easy solution to ensure my caption
> names/numbers in the xref links would stay updated automagically.
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > Frame goes to where you put the cross-reference marker, so yes, if you
> > want the graphic to be visible when you jump to it, you have to put
> > the marker above the graphic. Frame only has one type of
> > cross-reference marker; there is no way for the program to distinguish
> > between "this place in the text", "this caption above a graphic", or
> "this
> caption below a graphic".
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 8:19 AM Doug  wrote:
> >
> > > Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when
> > > deciding where to place the caption for an image, table, or
> > > equation?  The obvious choices are either above the object or below it.
> > >
> > > Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making
> > > cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the caption
> > > displays
> > at
> > > the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out
> > > of sight above the top of the screen in this case.
> > >
> > > It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above
> > > the object.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> ___
>
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>
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Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Rick Quatro

I am not sure how your document is set up, but I have done something like
this:

paragraph format: "anchor" with autonumber F: and color White. This is
the paragraph that has the anchored frame.
paragraph format: "caption" with autonumber F:Figure .

All of my cross-references point to the anchor paragraph.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-729-6746
www.frameexpert.com/store/



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Doug
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 11:55 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Captions

My shop's standard is to (sigh) put the captions below the objects.  My
workaround for this is to put a xref link above the object.  This works
well, except the object name/number in the xref link doesn't update
automatically if the caption changes.  (This is the reason for one of my
feature requests I've submitted.)

I was hoping I'd overlooked an easy solution to ensure my caption
names/numbers in the xref links would stay updated automagically.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Frame goes to where you put the cross-reference marker, so yes, if you 
> want the graphic to be visible when you jump to it, you have to put 
> the marker above the graphic. Frame only has one type of 
> cross-reference marker; there is no way for the program to distinguish 
> between "this place in the text", "this caption above a graphic", or "this
caption below a graphic".
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 8:19 AM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when 
> > deciding where to place the caption for an image, table, or 
> > equation?  The obvious choices are either above the object or below it.
> >
> > Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making 
> > cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the caption 
> > displays
> at
> > the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out 
> > of sight above the top of the screen in this case.
> >
> > It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above 
> > the object.
> >
> > Doug
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Doug

My shop's standard is to (sigh) put the captions below the objects.  My
workaround for this is to put a xref link above the object.  This works
well, except the object name/number in the xref link doesn't update
automatically if the caption changes.  (This is the reason for one of my
feature requests I've submitted.)

I was hoping I'd overlooked an easy solution to ensure my caption
names/numbers in the xref links would stay updated automagically.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Frame goes to where you put the cross-reference marker, so yes, if you want
> the graphic to be visible when you jump to it, you have to put the marker
> above the graphic. Frame only has one type of cross-reference marker; there
> is no way for the program to distinguish between "this place in the text",
> "this caption above a graphic", or "this caption below a graphic".
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 8:19 AM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when deciding
> > where to place the caption for an image, table, or equation?  The obvious
> > choices are either above the object or below it.
> >
> > Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making
> > cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the caption displays
> at
> > the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out of
> > sight above the top of the screen in this case.
> >
> > It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above the
> > object.
> >
> > Doug
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Lin Sims

Frame goes to where you put the cross-reference marker, so yes, if you want
the graphic to be visible when you jump to it, you have to put the marker
above the graphic. Frame only has one type of cross-reference marker; there
is no way for the program to distinguish between "this place in the text",
"this caption above a graphic", or "this caption below a graphic".

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 8:19 AM Doug  wrote:

> Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when deciding
> where to place the caption for an image, table, or equation?  The obvious
> choices are either above the object or below it.
>
> Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making
> cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the caption displays at
> the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out of
> sight above the top of the screen in this case.
>
> It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above the
> object.
>
> Doug
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
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>


-- 
Lin Sims
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[Framers] Long-time FM Unstructured User Needs Structured Advice

2019-12-13 Thread Jay Mahler

Hi, All,

I've been using FM since Version 3, but I haven't had to use it much lately (as 
a matter of fact, I'll need to sign up for a new license). When Structured FM 
first came out, I checked it out but decided that the steep learning curve 
wasn't worth it for the documents I was writing. Now, I have a document need 
that looks perfect for Structured, and I need to ask the experts some 
questions. I'll be preparing some manufacturing process sheets that have a 
standard format with a couple of images and limited, standard text fields. I'd 
like to create a document that's easy for manufacturing engineers to maintain, 
so I'm thinking that the appropriate approach is to create an Access database 
with required text fields and links to the images using a form for MEs to 
update/add process sheets (currently, the MEs have an Excel spreadsheet with 
each process sheet as a separate worksheet). If I remember correctly, 
Structured FM can easily generate pages based on database rows. My questions 
are:

  *   Does this sound like an appropriate plan?
  *   Are there templates available that I can modify?
  *   Any suggested learning tools for me?

Thanks,
Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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Re: [Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Ant Davey

   Hi Doug,

   My more academically inclined colleagues tell me (in Britain at least)
   table titles go above and figure titles go below.  However, I've always
   put both above.  For the reason that you state, about cross references
   going to the top of the page.  The same happens in PDFs if you have
   bookmarked the titles.  So, seeing the table or figure - or at least
   part of it - with the title has always seemed preferable.

   Ant

   On 13 December 2019 at 13:19 Doug < [1]dbailey4...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when deciding

   where to place the caption for an image, table, or equation? The
   obvious

   choices are either above the object or below it.

   Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making

   cross-references to the caption? In my experience the caption displays
   at

   the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out of

   sight above the top of the screen in this case.

   It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above
   the

   object.

   Doug

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[Framers] Captions

2019-12-13 Thread Doug

Is there an industry standard or best practice to follow when deciding
where to place the caption for an image, table, or equation?  The obvious
choices are either above the object or below it.

Also, if you place your captions below, how do you deal with making
cross-references to the caption?  In my experience the caption displays at
the top of the screen after the link jump. which puts the object out of
sight above the top of the screen in this case.

It almost seems as if FrameMaker expects users to put captions above the
object.

Doug
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Re: [Framers] Changing Setup Files

2019-12-13 Thread Klaus Daube

On 10 Dec 2019 at 15:55, Orly Zimmerman wrote:

> 1. I saw that the FM developers added a note asking us to be
> careful when assigning the F10 key to something, because Windows uses that
> key for different things-  anyone know what its commonly used for?

Dear Orly,
Yes, F10 is used in Windows, however while FM runs, it "over-writes the 
definition". 
Outside of FM and in some other applications F10 (and others) have the 
"orginally" 
assigned function, e.g. while in Windows Explorer:
  F10: Activate the Menu bar in the active app
Shift+F10: Display the shortcut menu for the selected item

Whithin FM 'we' use modifications of the assignments since FM-5.5 when Shlomo 
Perets 
presented his modified tool bars. This has been continued by me for the 
Enhanced Tool 
Bars: https://daube.ch/docu/files/etb-fm14+15-en.pdf#page=21  

> BTW - The Adobe developers mention "For documentation on this file, see the
> on-line manual "Changing Setup Files"." - for the cmds.cfg file in the
> general configui folder. - but I can't find this manual. 

This has not been updated since the days of FM-7. In recent times it would have 
required an update for every FM version... See my works:
https://daube.ch/docu/files/etb-customising-fm11.pdf, 
...etb-customising-fm12.pdf and 
etb-customising-fm14.pdf

> 2. Which cmd file can/should I change - if I'm working in non-structured -
> probably the wincmds.cfg in the configui/UnStructured/WYSIWYGView/ folder -
> right?  

Yes, wincmds.cfg is a good place. The recommended method however is to put user 
modifications into $FMHOME\fminit\configue\customui.cfg

In this file you can set up new commands, new menu entries and of course short 
cuts to 
existing commands. See for example the file within 
https://daube.ch/docu/files/Inst-FM14-ETB-en.zip 
\InstallETB_en\ETB\etb-customui.cfg
This file contains not the final definitions - It is modified by the 
installation 
process to use local file locations. For example, on line 45 of this file you 
see
  >
The installation converts it (on my system) to 
   3. If I want to use a command that is already in place - for example, in
> FM2017 - the F7 key is used to find command shortcuts - but I want to use
> F7 for something else (related to conditional texting) - what happens if I
> use the F7 in both places? 

You can not have the same short cut for two different functions.
- Either you give the current function (find command shortcut) a new unused 
shortcut
  (e.g. ALT+F7 - have not checked) and assign F7 then to the new function.
- Or you forget the current assignment and just re-use F7 for a new assignment.
Shortcuts may also be ESC sequences. But be aware that set up a sequence 
ESC+a+b, if 
ESC+a is already used. Safe are ESC+y+... or ESC+Y+...; Relatively safe are 
ESC+q+... or 
ESC+Q+ See https://daube.ch/docu/files/FM-ESC-sequences.pdf

HTH
Klaus

~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] Frame Properties

2019-12-13 Thread Doug

I understand that concern, but I see it as a minor inconvenience, once that
can be remedied via the use of the mouse's scroll wheel, by zooming back
out, or by clicking the down arrow on the scroll bar/dragging the scroll
bar down.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:27 AM Klaus Daube  wrote:

> On 12 Dec 2019 at 11:29, Doug wrote:
>
> > Unclickable cross references
> > FRMAKER-5971 
>
> Doug, think about this scenario:
> - You have such a cross reference at the top of a page and the target is
> far down.
> - You do not see the whole page due to the following
>   looking into the PDF with a tablet
>   having zoomed in to see a detail in a picture just before the cross ref
>   ...
> => You will be frustrated not to be able to click.
>
> Klaus
>
> ~
> Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
> Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
> CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch
>
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Frame Properties

2019-12-13 Thread Reng Winfried

Hi Doug,

Just add a comment in the Adobe Tracker. That's fine.
I also notice issues and cannot reproduce them next
time. 
Possibly there was something special with your test file.

Best regards

Winfried

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Doug
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 1:56 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame Properties

5570 seems to no longer be an issue.  Strange.  I can't reproduce it either.

I don't see a way to change the status of the request, however.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 2:40 AM Reng Winfried 
wrote:

> Hi Doug,
>
> I cannot reproduce issue 5570.
> When I save the document and then delete a condition tag and try to 
> close the document, I get a message whether I want to save. 
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Re: [Framers] Frame Properties

2019-12-13 Thread Doug

5570 seems to no longer be an issue.  Strange.  I can't reproduce it either.

I don't see a way to change the status of the request, however.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 2:40 AM Reng Winfried 
wrote:

> Hi Doug,
>
> I cannot reproduce issue 5570.
> When I save the document and then delete a
> condition tag and try to close the document,
> I get a message whether I want to save.
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Frame Properties

2019-12-13 Thread Klaus Daube

On 12 Dec 2019 at 11:29, Doug wrote:

> Unclickable cross references
> FRMAKER-5971 

Doug, think about this scenario:
- You have such a cross reference at the top of a page and the target is far 
down.
- You do not see the whole page due to the following
  looking into the PDF with a tablet
  having zoomed in to see a detail in a picture just before the cross ref
  ...
=> You will be frustrated not to be able to click.

Klaus

~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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