RE: PDF Documentation
Both the Agilent examples are good demonstrations of how to do a screen-readable PDF. Very nice! The funniest part of this, though, is that I have the original printed version (of the AN-91-1 document only, not the second one) before the concept of PDF formats even existed! :) It was *totally* different in the look, of course! Now, I just have to dig it out ... it is hiding somewhere in my garage. If I get a chance, I will scan it in and put it up somewhere for people to look as well. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shlomo Perets Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:59 AM To: kmcdan...@pavtech.com; fram...@frameusers.com Subject: Re: PDF Documentation Kelly, You wrote: >Quick Survey: > >Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their >computer display in preference to printing it for use? ... Other than personal preferences and the type of content, key factors are -- the extent to which the PDF is "screen friendly" (typography, layout) -- on-screen added value offered in the PDF, including effective cross-document search and navigation, multimedia, user input mechanisms Some nice examples of screen-optimized design are: * http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactiv e/an-95-1/an-95-1.pdf * http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactiv e/an-150-1/hp-am-fm.pdf (produced 12 years ago, with Acrobat 2!) [ or see current PDFs at http://ChangeThis.com/archives ] On the other hand, http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker/pdfs/MIF_Reference.pdf is clearly print-oriented (even though labelled "Online Manual"). Shlomo Perets MicroType * FrameMaker training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat TimeSavers 30 Easy Ways to Improve PDFs with TimeSavers/Assistants: http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris. net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Sweet example of a screen-optimized manual, Shlomo. Thank you! _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 > -Original Message- > From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers- > boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shlomo Perets > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:59 AM > To: kmcdan...@pavtech.com; fram...@frameusers.com > Subject: Re: PDF Documentation > > Kelly, > > You wrote: > > >Quick Survey: > > > >Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > >computer display in preference to printing it for use? ... > > Other than personal preferences and the type of content, key factors are > -- the extent to which the PDF is "screen friendly" (typography, layout) > -- on-screen added value offered in the PDF, including effective > cross-document search and navigation, multimedia, user input mechanisms > > Some nice examples of screen-optimized design are: > * > http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactive/an -95- > 1/an-95-1.pdf > * > http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactive/an -150- > 1/hp-am-fm.pdf > (produced 12 years ago, with Acrobat 2!) > [ or see current PDFs at http://ChangeThis.com/archives ] > > On the other hand, > http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker/pdfs/MIF_Reference.pdf is clearly > print-oriented (even though labelled "Online Manual"). > > > Shlomo Perets > > MicroType * FrameMaker training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat > TimeSavers > > 30 Easy Ways to Improve PDFs with TimeSavers/Assistants: > http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html > > > > > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as l...@astoria-pacific.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria- > pacific.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Kelly, You wrote: >Quick Survey: > >Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their >computer display in preference to printing it for use? ... Other than personal preferences and the type of content, key factors are -- the extent to which the PDF is "screen friendly" (typography, layout) -- on-screen added value offered in the PDF, including effective cross-document search and navigation, multimedia, user input mechanisms Some nice examples of screen-optimized design are: * http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactive/an-95-1/an-95-1.pdf * http://contact.tm.agilent.com/data/static/downloads/eng/Notes/interactive/an-150-1/hp-am-fm.pdf (produced 12 years ago, with Acrobat 2!) [ or see current PDFs at http://ChangeThis.com/archives ] On the other hand, http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker/pdfs/MIF_Reference.pdf is clearly print-oriented (even though labelled "Online Manual"). Shlomo Perets MicroType * FrameMaker training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat TimeSavers 30 Easy Ways to Improve PDFs with TimeSavers/Assistants: http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Dear Kelly McDaniel, In my experience working in the IT and telecommunications field, PDFs are used almost exclusively. The only time I have seen hard copies used is during eLearning courses, but that's a different context (though related) than technical documentation. Here's why. I am writing to a highly educated, technically savvy audience. This audience is already well-informed about the field I am writing about. Consequently, they don't need to read every single chapter of a 600-page manual (yes, I have edited one of those), they only need specific pieces (i.e. modules) of information to expand or deepen their understanding of one particular aspect of the technology that I am writing about. In other words, my audience isn't using PDFs as a book but a reference guide. The key is being able to locate specific pieces of information contained in a tremendous amount of other information they don't care about. This means that a PDFs bookmarking and search capabilities are key. With those two features, the PDF meets my audience's needs regardless of what an individual member is looking for. What I find particularly interesting is the slow migration away from PDFs to a browser-based help systems. In many ways, PDFs still belong to a print-based paradigm. They have the look and feel of a manual/book, with the corresponding headers, footers, and pagination. These things are appropriate if you are creating a hard copy but its increasingly hard for me to see the justification for these manual-like attributes with PDFs that are viewed solely on a computer screen. If a user only views a PDF on a computer screen, then they generally don't care about pagination. Why would they? They have context searchable help, book marks, and hyperlinks. Furthermore, why are PDFs constrained by the dimensions of a physical piece of paper? If you have a computer screen, your dimensions are much more fungible. That's why I believe systems such as Adobe AIR applications are going to become the primary publication method in the technical communications field. In the cases, where hard copies and PDFs are still appropriate (and they still will be), I believe XML languages will function as translators to simultaneously output content to both online help systems and PDFs (I believe DITA is able to do something along these lines). -- Sincerely, Joseph Lorenzini ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Our model is to supply help for online viewing, and a PDF that is optimized for printing. Barry ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Hi Kelly, A quick check here says that our Asia-Pacific customers want DVDs. Customers who take our training ask for printed sets of manuals. Everyone else downloads the PDF. Hope this helps! Regards, Anne Urban Senior Technical Editor Altair Engineering Kelly McDaniel wrote: > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > > Senior Technical Writer > > > > Pavilion Technologies > > A Rockwell Automation Company > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as a...@pbspro.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/agu%40pbspro.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Since we only provide our main help file in PDF format, I'd have to say at least 95% just open it and read it in the Reader. Jeff Coatsworth Documentation Specialist Gary Jonas Computing Ltd. 905-886-0544 905-886-8511 (fax) jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McDaniel Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:40 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: PDF Documentation Quick Survey: Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their computer display in preference to printing it for use? If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. Kelly M. McDaniel Senior Technical Writer Pavilion Technologies A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jo nassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Hi, In Germany law requests documentation to install and use the product and to avoid any dangers. All court judgements still regard only paper documentation as proper documentation. However, at least for products which are used together with a PC this seems to change _slowly_. I do not think that Germans regard paper documentation as "bad", non-green etc. Think of your parents. Would they prefer PDF? I guess, all depends on product, audience and circumstances. Best regards Winfried > -Original Message- > From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > John Sgammato > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:37 AM > To: Combs, Richard; Bill Swallow > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: RE: PDF Documentation > > Well, for what it's worth, my German service engineer said that in > Germany, his customers prefer PDFs to printed books, for all the usual > reasons, PLUS they strongly feel that paper manuals are a sign of a > company that does not "think green". > Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial; we probably won't be > sending printed docs to German customers unless they ask for them. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Depends upon what it is (how long mostly) and the page layout (size, portrait vs landscape). If it is one page it seems to get printed, but if it is long and is a manual it gets printed too. But if if is middling to long and is, for example a District Plan, technical reference, or something similar it doesn't get printed although selected pages might. Alan On 23/01/2009, at 5:40 AM, Kelly McDaniel wrote: > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > > Senior Technical Writer > > > > Pavilion Technologies > > A Rockwell Automation Company > > > > -- Alan Litchfield MBus(Hons), MNZCS AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, NZ. 1140 http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Robert Shelton wrote: > What you say may very well be true, though I'd be reluctant to say that > a tree farm = forested land. However, the cite you give is from John > Stossel, who is hardly unbiased when it comes to reporting environmental > issues. Again, it may be true, but I'd take it with a very large grain > of salt. > > And as we've now gone completely off-topic, I'll stop. You're right, and I'll stop too. Right after this. :-) John Stossel is one of my heroes, but I won't debate his character and reliability here. If you don't trust that source, try a Google search for "more forest today" (with quotes included). You'll find a variety of sources for related information, including state government and academic sources. Anyway, John Sgammato is completely right, of course. If your customers think badly of people who send them printed manuals, you'd be foolish to spend the money to send them printed manuals. That's why I said "Print stuff when it makes sense, don't when it doesn't..." Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Even if there is plenty of raw material (trees) in the US, processing, handling and disposing of the paper is definitely un-green. Micheal O'Laoghaire Comverse Inc, Cambridge, MA -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of John Sgammato Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:37 PM To: Combs, Richard; Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: PDF Documentation Well, for what it's worth, my German service engineer said that in Germany, his customers prefer PDFs to printed books, for all the usual reasons, PLUS they strongly feel that paper manuals are a sign of a company that does not "think green". Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial; we probably won't be sending printed docs to German customers unless they ask for them. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:33 PM To: Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: PDF Documentation Bill Swallow wrote: > At best they are an 11-year renewable resource. So, yes. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rick Quatro > wrote: > >> German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German > >> customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof > >> that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. > > > > Huh? Is there is a shortage of trees in America? Um, no, there is not. And whether the cycle is 11 years, or 7, or 20 is irrelevant. I can't speak for Germany, but the U.S. has more forested acres today than it had 100 years ago. As of 2004, there were more than two acres of forest for every person in the U.S. One reason is because increased agricultural efficiency lets us grow more food on fewer acres, so less land is plowed up. Another reason is that long-term growth in demand for wood products, including paper, encouraged entrepreneurs to plant lots of trees and to manage forest resources for sustained profitability. Most of the what's called "pulpwood" (used for paper products) comes from the 7% of forested land that's actual tree farms. As demand for paper grows, so does the size of tree farms. (Here's one relevant source: http://www.cfact.org/site/view_article.asp?idCategory=5&idarticle=457) TW tie-in: Print stuff when it makes sense, don't when it doesn't, and stop worrying about killing trees. The more we need, the more they'll grow. Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivat a.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as micheal.olaogha...@comverse.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/micheal.olaoghaire%4 0comverse.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Well, for what it's worth, my German service engineer said that in Germany, his customers prefer PDFs to printed books, for all the usual reasons, PLUS they strongly feel that paper manuals are a sign of a company that does not "think green". Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial; we probably won't be sending printed docs to German customers unless they ask for them. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:33 PM To: Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: PDF Documentation Bill Swallow wrote: > At best they are an 11-year renewable resource. So, yes. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rick Quatro > wrote: > >> German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German > >> customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof > >> that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. > > > > Huh? Is there is a shortage of trees in America? Um, no, there is not. And whether the cycle is 11 years, or 7, or 20 is irrelevant. I can't speak for Germany, but the U.S. has more forested acres today than it had 100 years ago. As of 2004, there were more than two acres of forest for every person in the U.S. One reason is because increased agricultural efficiency lets us grow more food on fewer acres, so less land is plowed up. Another reason is that long-term growth in demand for wood products, including paper, encouraged entrepreneurs to plant lots of trees and to manage forest resources for sustained profitability. Most of the what's called "pulpwood" (used for paper products) comes from the 7% of forested land that's actual tree farms. As demand for paper grows, so does the size of tree farms. (Here's one relevant source: http://www.cfact.org/site/view_article.asp?idCategory=5&idarticle=457) TW tie-in: Print stuff when it makes sense, don't when it doesn't, and stop worrying about killing trees. The more we need, the more they'll grow. Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivat a.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Bill Swallow wrote: > At best they are an 11-year renewable resource. So, yes. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rick Quatro > wrote: > >> German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German > >> customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof > >> that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. > > > > Huh? Is there is a shortage of trees in America? Um, no, there is not. And whether the cycle is 11 years, or 7, or 20 is irrelevant. I can't speak for Germany, but the U.S. has more forested acres today than it had 100 years ago. As of 2004, there were more than two acres of forest for every person in the U.S. One reason is because increased agricultural efficiency lets us grow more food on fewer acres, so less land is plowed up. Another reason is that long-term growth in demand for wood products, including paper, encouraged entrepreneurs to plant lots of trees and to manage forest resources for sustained profitability. Most of the what's called "pulpwood" (used for paper products) comes from the 7% of forested land that's actual tree farms. As demand for paper grows, so does the size of tree farms. (Here's one relevant source: http://www.cfact.org/site/view_article.asp?idCategory=5&idarticle=457) TW tie-in: Print stuff when it makes sense, don't when it doesn't, and stop worrying about killing trees. The more we need, the more they'll grow. Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
At best they are an 11-year renewable resource. So, yes. On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rick Quatro wrote: >> German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German >> customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof >> that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. > > Huh? Is there is a shortage of trees in America? -- Bill Swallow http://techcommdood.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/techcommdood Avid homebrewer and proud beer snob. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
I can't speak for users but I prefer online for search and indexing. Paper just contributes to clutter, which I have more than my fair share of. On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Kelly McDaniel wrote: > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > -- Bill Swallow http://techcommdood.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/techcommdood Avid homebrewer and proud beer snob. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
My 2 cents, as others have hinted, is that it depends on the application. When I'm working on manuals by day, I love having a searchable PDF when I need to track something down for reference. When I'm assembling a gizmo at home, I want a hard copy. Chances are I won't be working anywhere close to the computer. When I'm wearing my journalist's hat and reporting on the doings of a local government or school board, where meeting packets are increasingly coming in PDF format, I want both -- a hard copy of at least the agenda and any major discussion topics to refer to during the conversation, a PDF at home and writing for when I have to navigate the packet and hunt down relevant details. Jim -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of ri...@inficon.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:06 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: PDF Documentation Kelly, My experience is that my users prefer viewing PDFs, preferring PDF over paper. We shifted from delivering paper operating manuals to delivering PDFs on CD a years ago. We were worried at first, but needlessly so. We even offered to ship printed, bound hardcopy for free to any user that requested it. Our users liked the change to PDF very much, and now prefer PDFs. I have not had a request for a hardcopy manual in years. Actually, customers have told their reps how much they prefer the PDFs. Our Service Department initially balked when we talked about doing away with hardcopy Service Manuals, but once they started using the PDFs they shifted quickly away from paper. I can put E size schematics in a PDF (beautiful vector drawings created directly from our CAD software --- for example, Service Technicians can print just a portion of the schematic at whatever zoom level they want on standard 8 1/2 x 11 paper or print the entire schematic on E size paper if the printer supports it). The Service Technicians now have PDFs that contain all the Service information they need, and they can always find a printer they can hook into to print hardcopy, if need be. But, honestly, the standard for them is to work from their laptop, viewing the PDF of the manual on screen. If users are connected to a printer, they will print out pages of interest to them. But, I've never heard of anyone actually printing a whole PDF to hardcopy. I do support a product line of hand held instruments used by HVAC technicians; more of a main stream, over-the-counter product. For example, when you call a HVAC technician to come service your central air conditioning, they will probably have in their truck a small hand held leak detector in a very tough case. We include small, short, paper manuals for those hand held products. We do not supply a CD with the manual on it to these people; they prefer paper (they can get their manual in PDF off of our website, though). Honestly, these instruments don't really need a manual anyway, and I suspect most of these paper manuals are quickly lost once people figure out how to install the batteries, how to set the sensitivity range, and turn it on/off. But, for my larger, more complicated instruments, PDF alone is just fine and is actually preferred by my customers. These instruments often come with specialized control software, and since those users are already using computers, PDF is a natural fit. This is especially true for instruments that are used in clean room environments. Years ago I prepared very expensive clean room paper manuals. A PDF viewed on their clean room computer is now the preferred choice by my users. These instruments are not sold "over the counter". They are purchased with Service Contracts and/or installation by trained technicians. We don't even supply short Quick Use Guides or Getting Started Guides (like those you get when you buy a new printer for your home computer) because only trained technicians should install the instrument. The installation parameters are in the Operating Manual PDF on the CD we supply, but in most cases a trained technician, working from a Service Manual PDF, does the actual instrument installation. Your situation may be different than mine. Perhaps your products are more "mainstream". But, for me, PDF works well for all but my hand held products, and PDF is preferred over hardcopy by all but my hand held product users. Richard "Kelly McDaniel" Sent by: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 01/22/2009 11:40 AM To cc Subject PDF Documentation Quick Survey: Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their computer display in preference to printing it for use? If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. Kelly M. McDaniel Senior Technical Writer Pavilion Technologies A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently s
Re: PDF Documentation
Kelly, My experience is that my users prefer viewing PDFs, preferring PDF over paper. We shifted from delivering paper operating manuals to delivering PDFs on CD a years ago. We were worried at first, but needlessly so. We even offered to ship printed, bound hardcopy for free to any user that requested it. Our users liked the change to PDF very much, and now prefer PDFs. I have not had a request for a hardcopy manual in years. Actually, customers have told their reps how much they prefer the PDFs. Our Service Department initially balked when we talked about doing away with hardcopy Service Manuals, but once they started using the PDFs they shifted quickly away from paper. I can put E size schematics in a PDF (beautiful vector drawings created directly from our CAD software --- for example, Service Technicians can print just a portion of the schematic at whatever zoom level they want on standard 8 1/2 x 11 paper or print the entire schematic on E size paper if the printer supports it). The Service Technicians now have PDFs that contain all the Service information they need, and they can always find a printer they can hook into to print hardcopy, if need be. But, honestly, the standard for them is to work from their laptop, viewing the PDF of the manual on screen. If users are connected to a printer, they will print out pages of interest to them. But, I've never heard of anyone actually printing a whole PDF to hardcopy. I do support a product line of hand held instruments used by HVAC technicians; more of a main stream, over-the-counter product. For example, when you call a HVAC technician to come service your central air conditioning, they will probably have in their truck a small hand held leak detector in a very tough case. We include small, short, paper manuals for those hand held products. We do not supply a CD with the manual on it to these people; they prefer paper (they can get their manual in PDF off of our website, though). Honestly, these instruments don't really need a manual anyway, and I suspect most of these paper manuals are quickly lost once people figure out how to install the batteries, how to set the sensitivity range, and turn it on/off. But, for my larger, more complicated instruments, PDF alone is just fine and is actually preferred by my customers. These instruments often come with specialized control software, and since those users are already using computers, PDF is a natural fit. This is especially true for instruments that are used in clean room environments. Years ago I prepared very expensive clean room paper manuals. A PDF viewed on their clean room computer is now the preferred choice by my users. These instruments are not sold "over the counter". They are purchased with Service Contracts and/or installation by trained technicians. We don't even supply short Quick Use Guides or Getting Started Guides (like those you get when you buy a new printer for your home computer) because only trained technicians should install the instrument. The installation parameters are in the Operating Manual PDF on the CD we supply, but in most cases a trained technician, working from a Service Manual PDF, does the actual instrument installation. Your situation may be different than mine. Perhaps your products are more "mainstream". But, for me, PDF works well for all but my hand held products, and PDF is preferred over hardcopy by all but my hand held product users. Richard "Kelly McDaniel" Sent by: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 01/22/2009 11:40 AM To cc Subject PDF Documentation Quick Survey: Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their computer display in preference to printing it for use? If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. Kelly M. McDaniel Senior Technical Writer Pavilion Technologies A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as ri...@inficon.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinch%40inficon.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Scott Prentice wrote (in small part): >Searching in a PDF is a fairly useless > operation as well, which is > another reason I prefer to use other types > of online docs. Actually, I find Acrobat's search operation, with it's list of results showing some of the surrounding context, to be very useable in many cases. Just *my* $0.02... -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
OK .. I'll add my 0.02 to this "survey" .. In general I hate reading PDFs on screen. When reading content on screen I much prefer doing so in an application that allows me to resize the window to suit my needs (typically HTML .. web browser or CHM), and the content flows to fit that window. If a PDF is intended for printing, it will usually be too big to be convenient on screen (assuming that I'm using this along with another application). If a PDF is optimized for on screen use (typically a smaller page size) it won't be very useful for printing. Also, if you provide a multi column layout (often nice for printed output), it becomes very difficult to use on screen. Some companies provide two versions of PDF docs, one for printing and one for on screen use .. I think that's a very nice thing to offer .. but would prefer that the on screen documentation be a more user-friendly format (CHM/HTML). Searching in a PDF is a fairly useless operation as well, which is another reason I prefer to use other types of online docs. Cheers, ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Kelly McDaniel wrote: > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > > Senior Technical Writer > > > > Pavilion Technologies > > A Rockwell Automation Company > > > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
Yes. : ) I like to both view it on the screen and print it out. And when I print it out, I generally like to print it double-sided on 3-hole punch paper and put it in a binder. Please keep that in mind if buy anything from your company. : ) Mike -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McDaniel Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:40 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: PDF Documentation Quick Survey: Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their computer display in preference to printing it for use? If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. Kelly M. McDaniel Senior Technical Writer Pavilion Technologies A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as mike.feims...@acstechnologies.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mike.feimster%40acst echnologies.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
On 22 Jan 2009, at 9:55 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > If it's hardware based, like how to install something -- either > computer or, > say, room lights, I'd expect it to be printed. Just a few days ago, my MacBook Pro wouldn't finish booting. Fortunately, I had previously installed Applejack, printed the brief version of its instructions, and taped it to my desk. Thus I was able to quickly run it and fix the problem (a corrupted startup plist file). For products not related to getting the computer working, my first preference is professionally printed and bound documentation that I can leaf through. My second preference is a PDF on my machine, with a link to updated information online. Purely online documentation depends on having Web access, which isn't always available when traveling, in meetings, etc. Last choice is self-printed pages, which I find less handy to use than professional publications. -*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*— Ed Rush, Boise, Idaho e...@edrene.us http://edrene.us/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
> German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German > customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof > that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. Huh? Is there is a shortage of trees in America? Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: PDF Documentation
In my experience (especially following recent conversations with our services guys), user preference for print vs PDF changes quite a lot with industry, country, and what the user's other product documentation is like. For example, in US hospitals, many users like the printed docs and see them as a sign of respect and our corporate ability as well as being a means to find intformation. German culture is much more green-minded than ours, so among our German customers, especially in manufacturing, printed docs are anathema, proof that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order. We normally ship a printed doc set with every purchase, but we are considering revising that, at least in the EMEA business area, to be a free option. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McDaniel Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:40 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: PDF Documentation Quick Survey: Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their computer display in preference to printing it for use? If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. Kelly M. McDaniel Senior Technical Writer Pavilion Technologies A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivat a.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
I think it depends on whether it's task-oriented info or reference, and also on what the product is. If it's software, and it's task-oriented, I usually keep it on-screen while I'm doing something. If it's conceptual or reference doc, I'm more likely to print it. If it's hardware based, like how to install something -- either computer or, say, room lights, I'd expect it to be printed. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Kelly McDaniel wrote: > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > > Senior Technical Writer > > > > Pavilion Technologies > > A Rockwell Automation Company > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: PDF Documentation
Hi Kelly, I am not sure about my users, but I prefer to read documentation on paper, so I usually print PDFs that I refer to often. I also like to read in the bathtub :-). Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Quick Survey: > > > > Is it your experience that users view PDF documentation on their > computer display in preference to printing it for use? > > If so, by what ratio of view:print? Opinions and SWAGs are fine. > > > > Kelly M. McDaniel > > Senior Technical Writer > > > > Pavilion Technologies > > A Rockwell Automation Company ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
