Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

The shorter expression in your original post:

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or ( "SAS4" and ( "LPvB" or
"LPvC" ) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal") or ( "SAS4vA" and ( "LPvB" or "LPvC"
) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal")

That would return everything that has none of these tags:

( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )

plus everything selected by this statement:

( "SAS4" and ( "LPvB" or
"LPvC" ) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal") or ( "SAS4vA" and ( "LPvB" or "LPvC"
) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal")

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> Which shorter expression? This one?
>
> "LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or
> "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
> "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )
>
> Because it didn't work, although it's entirely probably I misunderstood
> what you were trying to tell me while constructing it. The last couple of
> weeks have been long and frantic, and this was a major reason why. At this
> point, my brain has run out my ears, and I'm looking for instructions on
> how to use a toothpick. 
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
>> The shorter expression returns everything that is NOT tagged with
>> anything in the ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote") set, PLUS everything
>> that matches ("LITEvA" and (("LP" or ... or "SAS4vC") and not ("TBP"
>> or "Internal"))).
>>
>> You might try running the first one through a utility that simplifies
>> logical expressions.
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14902141/any-good-boolean-expression-
>> simplifiers-out-there
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>> > I wish. But my boss wants unstructured, so I'm sorta stuck.
>> >
>> > At least the long expression works properly. I just wish I understood why
>> > the shorter one (which to me looks logically the same) doesn't. Ah, well.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> DocBook and DITA have a much more sophisticated approach to
>> >> conditional text. There are multiple profiling attributes that can
>> >> have multiple values. Thus the parameters you use when processing
>> >> output are simple and human-readable.
>> >>
>> >> In my main docs, currently I use audience (public / internal) and
>> >> condition (public / tech writer only). Both default to public, so I
>> >> don't have to do anything to hide internal and tech-writer-only
>> >> elements.
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Which shorter expression? This one?

"LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or
"SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
"DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )

Because it didn't work, although it's entirely probably I misunderstood
what you were trying to tell me while constructing it. The last couple of
weeks have been long and frantic, and this was a major reason why. At this
point, my brain has run out my ears, and I'm looking for instructions on
how to use a toothpick. 


On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> The shorter expression returns everything that is NOT tagged with
> anything in the ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote") set, PLUS everything
> that matches ("LITEvA" and (("LP" or ... or "SAS4vC") and not ("TBP"
> or "Internal"))).
>
> You might try running the first one through a utility that simplifies
> logical expressions.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14902141/any-good-boolean-expression-
> simplifiers-out-there
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> > I wish. But my boss wants unstructured, so I'm sorta stuck.
> >
> > At least the long expression works properly. I just wish I understood why
> > the shorter one (which to me looks logically the same) doesn't. Ah, well.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> DocBook and DITA have a much more sophisticated approach to
> >> conditional text. There are multiple profiling attributes that can
> >> have multiple values. Thus the parameters you use when processing
> >> output are simple and human-readable.
> >>
> >> In my main docs, currently I use audience (public / internal) and
> >> condition (public / tech writer only). Both default to public, so I
> >> don't have to do anything to hide internal and tech-writer-only
> >> elements.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

The shorter expression returns everything that is NOT tagged with
anything in the ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote") set, PLUS everything
that matches ("LITEvA" and (("LP" or ... or "SAS4vC") and not ("TBP"
or "Internal"))).

You might try running the first one through a utility that simplifies
logical expressions.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14902141/any-good-boolean-expression-simplifiers-out-there

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> I wish. But my boss wants unstructured, so I'm sorta stuck.
>
> At least the long expression works properly. I just wish I understood why
> the shorter one (which to me looks logically the same) doesn't. Ah, well.
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
>> DocBook and DITA have a much more sophisticated approach to
>> conditional text. There are multiple profiling attributes that can
>> have multiple values. Thus the parameters you use when processing
>> output are simple and human-readable.
>>
>> In my main docs, currently I use audience (public / internal) and
>> condition (public / tech writer only). Both default to public, so I
>> don't have to do anything to hide internal and tech-writer-only
>> elements.
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

I wish. But my boss wants unstructured, so I'm sorta stuck.

At least the long expression works properly. I just wish I understood why
the shorter one (which to me looks logically the same) doesn't. Ah, well.

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> DocBook and DITA have a much more sophisticated approach to
> conditional text. There are multiple profiling attributes that can
> have multiple values. Thus the parameters you use when processing
> output are simple and human-readable.
>
> In my main docs, currently I use audience (public / internal) and
> condition (public / tech writer only). Both default to public, so I
> don't have to do anything to hide internal and tech-writer-only
> elements.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
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>



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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

DocBook and DITA have a much more sophisticated approach to
conditional text. There are multiple profiling attributes that can
have multiple values. Thus the parameters you use when processing
output are simple and human-readable.

In my main docs, currently I use audience (public / internal) and
condition (public / tech writer only). Both default to public, so I
don't have to do anything to hide internal and tech-writer-only
elements.
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Carp. Back to not working for all the outputs I need.   It worked (I
think) for the external documents but not for the internal ones. And if the
external stuff ever becomes IP specific, it won't work for that, either.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should have just created massive conglomerate
tags, one for each book. I was trying to avoid having to create umpty
conditions, but at this point it may be my only foolproof choice.

Ugh.


On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> Heh.
>
> Internal / External is the audience. Internal customers get proprietary
> information that the external customers don't.
> DocIss is for tracking tickets entered against documentation so that I
> know who asked for a change and what the change was.
> LP / SAS4 / LITE are the various IPs coming out of the set, with vA / vB /
> vC being the various versions of each IP.
> NoSeeEm is a review condition used only on the cover page legend telling
> reviewers what is visible in the document.
> WriterNote is either notes to myself or questions for reviewers
> TBP is information that is under review for inclusion in one of more IP /
> Audience combinations.
>
> This thing has been a nightmare, because prior to this doc I've only had
> to use simple Show/Hide.
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
>> You have four sets of conditions. What's the simplest logical
>> statement of how you want to apply them?
>>
>> It's not clear to me why the Internal and DocIss sets are separate.
>> You don't want this?
>>
>> "LITEvA"
>> AND ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC")
>> AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal" or "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or  "WriterNote")
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>> > OK, assuming you were telling me to create this expression:
>> >
>> > "LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or
>> "SAS4vA" or
>> > "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
>> > "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )
>> >
>> > The answer is no, that doesn't work. For example, I have something that
>> is
>> > tagged LP + LITEvA + TBP, and it shows up, and I don't want it to.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
>> >> not. I'll experiment and get back to you.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston <
>> rob...@lauriston.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims 
>> wrote:
>> >>> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC"
>> or
>> >>> "NoSeeEm"
>> >>> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or
>> "WriterNote" )
>> >>> >
>> >>> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
>> >>> those
>> >>> > tags attached.
>> >>>
>> >>> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
>> >>> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
>> >>> follows it. The logic is:
>> >>>
>> >>> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>> >>> OR
>> >>> (all the other stuff)
>> >>>
>> >>> Is what you want actually this?
>> >>>
>> >>> "LITEvA"
>> >>> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
>> >>> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>> >>> ___
>> >>>
>> >>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> >>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>> >>> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr
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>> >>> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Lin Sims
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lin Sims
>> > ___
>> >
>> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
>> >
>> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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>> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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>
>
>
> --
> Lin 

Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Heh.

Internal / External is the audience. Internal customers get proprietary
information that the external customers don't.
DocIss is for tracking tickets entered against documentation so that I know
who asked for a change and what the change was.
LP / SAS4 / LITE are the various IPs coming out of the set, with vA / vB /
vC being the various versions of each IP.
NoSeeEm is a review condition used only on the cover page legend telling
reviewers what is visible in the document.
WriterNote is either notes to myself or questions for reviewers
TBP is information that is under review for inclusion in one of more IP /
Audience combinations.

This thing has been a nightmare, because prior to this doc I've only had to
use simple Show/Hide.

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> You have four sets of conditions. What's the simplest logical
> statement of how you want to apply them?
>
> It's not clear to me why the Internal and DocIss sets are separate.
> You don't want this?
>
> "LITEvA"
> AND ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC")
> AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal" or "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or  "WriterNote")
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> > OK, assuming you were telling me to create this expression:
> >
> > "LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or
> "SAS4vA" or
> > "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
> > "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )
> >
> > The answer is no, that doesn't work. For example, I have something that
> is
> > tagged LP + LITEvA + TBP, and it shows up, and I don't want it to.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> >> Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
> >> not. I'll experiment and get back to you.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims 
> wrote:
> >>> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
> >>> >
> >>> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
> >>> "NoSeeEm"
> >>> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or
> "WriterNote" )
> >>> >
> >>> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
> >>> those
> >>> > tags attached.
> >>>
> >>> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
> >>> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
> >>> follows it. The logic is:
> >>>
> >>> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
> >>> OR
> >>> (all the other stuff)
> >>>
> >>> Is what you want actually this?
> >>>
> >>> "LITEvA"
> >>> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
> >>> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
> >>> ___
> >>>
> >>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>>
> >>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> >>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lin Sims
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

You have four sets of conditions. What's the simplest logical
statement of how you want to apply them?

It's not clear to me why the Internal and DocIss sets are separate.
You don't want this?

"LITEvA"
AND ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC")
AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal" or "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or  "WriterNote")

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> OK, assuming you were telling me to create this expression:
>
> "LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or
> "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
> "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )
>
> The answer is no, that doesn't work. For example, I have something that is
> tagged LP + LITEvA + TBP, and it shows up, and I don't want it to.
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>
>> Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
>> not. I'll experiment and get back to you.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>>> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
>>> >
>>> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
>>> "NoSeeEm"
>>> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
>>> >
>>> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
>>> those
>>> > tags attached.
>>>
>>> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
>>> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
>>> follows it. The logic is:
>>>
>>> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>>> OR
>>> (all the other stuff)
>>>
>>> Is what you want actually this?
>>>
>>> "LITEvA"
>>> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
>>> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>>
>>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>>> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr
>>> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/li
>>> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lin Sims
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Would you believe:

"LITEvA" and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" )

works? So far, at least. I want to test a few more combinations. SHEEESH.
Someone told me I was supposed to be telling Frame what NOT to show, ergo
the

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
lead-off and all the rest of it.

I knew I was overthinking this.



On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> OK, assuming you were telling me to create this expression:
>
> "LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA"
> or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
> "DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )
>
> The answer is no, that doesn't work. For example, I have something that is
> tagged LP + LITEvA + TBP, and it shows up, and I don't want it to.
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>
>> Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
>> not. I'll experiment and get back to you.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>>> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
>>> >
>>> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
>>> "NoSeeEm"
>>> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote"
>>> )
>>> >
>>> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
>>> those
>>> > tags attached.
>>>
>>> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
>>> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
>>> follows it. The logic is:
>>>
>>> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>>> OR
>>> (all the other stuff)
>>>
>>> Is what you want actually this?
>>>
>>> "LITEvA"
>>> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
>>> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>>
>>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>>> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr
>>> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/li
>>> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lin Sims
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>



-- 
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

OK, assuming you were telling me to create this expression:

"LITEvA" and ( ( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or
"SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" ) and not (  "Internal" or "TBP" ) ) and not (
"DocIss" or "NoSeeEm" or "WriterNote" )

The answer is no, that doesn't work. For example, I have something that is
tagged LP + LITEvA + TBP, and it shows up, and I don't want it to.

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
> not. I'll experiment and get back to you.
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
>> >
>> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
>> "NoSeeEm"
>> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
>> >
>> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
>> those
>> > tags attached.
>>
>> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
>> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
>> follows it. The logic is:
>>
>> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>> OR
>> (all the other stuff)
>>
>> Is what you want actually this?
>>
>> "LITEvA"
>> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
>> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr
>> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/li
>> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>



-- 
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Might be.  I'll have to try that. I thought I had, but maybe
not. I'll experiment and get back to you.

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> > ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
> >
> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
> "NoSeeEm"
> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
> >
> > and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of
> those
> > tags attached.
>
> In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
> not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
> follows it. The logic is:
>
> NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
> OR
> (all the other stuff)
>
> Is what you want actually this?
>
> "LITEvA"
> AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
> AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>



-- 
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___

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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> ...This part of the expression is the same for both:
>
> not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or 
> "NoSeeEm"
> or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
>
> and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of those
> tags attached.

In the second version, it's telling Frame to show everything that does
not have any of those tags. That has no effect on anything that
follows it. The logic is:

NOT ( "DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
OR
(all the other stuff)

Is what you want actually this?

"LITEvA"
AND ( ("LP" or ... "SAS4vC") AND NOT ("TBP" or "Internal") )
AND NOT ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
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Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

If there is documentation about evaluation precedence, I haven't been able
to find it.

I'm not sure about your comments on needing more parenthesis or a missing
not. I have found that you can't nest these expressions too far (I think 3
levels is the maximum) because Frame completely crashes.

This part of the expression is the same for both:

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )

and it's telling Frame not to show anything that has at least one of those
tags attached.

The second part is telling Frame that if the LITEvA tag is present in any
combination, it should be shown unless it is also tagged either Internal or
TBP.

So I'm trying to figure out why Frame wants each combination defined
separately. As far as I remember (and it's been a while since I did Boolean
logic),

(A and B) or (A and C) or (A and D) should be equivalent to (A and (B or C
or D)).

and

(A and B) and not (X or Y) or (A and C) and not (X or Y) should be
equivalent to (A and (B or C)) and not (X or Y)).

Why it isn't confuses me no end.






On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> Is there any documentation of the precedence and order of evaluation
> of FrameMaker's conditional tag logical operators?
>
> I feel like the second one needs more parentheses and might be missing
> a NOT. As written, it looks like it will show (1) everything with none
> of the condition tags in the set that starts with DocIss as well as
> (2) everything that's tagged LITEvA that also has at least one of the
> tags in the set that starts with LP unless it has a TBP or Internal
> tag.
>
> not ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
> or
> ("LITEvA" and (("LP" or ... or "SAS4vC") and not ("TBP" or "Internal")))
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> > No one wants to tackle that wall o' text, huh? :)
> >
> > How's this, then. Could someone explain why these two expressions don't
> > have the same effect, even though (to my eyes) they are logically
> identical?
> >
> > This one works:
> >
> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
> "NoSeeEm"
> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
> or (
> > "LITEvA" and "LP" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and
> > "LPvA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvB" ) and
> not (
> > "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvC" ) and not ( "Internal" or
> "TBP"
> > ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or (
> "LITEvA"
> > and "SAS4vA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and
> "SAS4vB" ) and
> > not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4vC" ) and not (
> > "Internal" or "TBP" )
> >
> > This one doesn't:
> >
> > not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or
> "NoSeeEm"
> > or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" )
> or (
> > "LITEvA" and (( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or
> > "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB"
> > or "SAS4vC" ) and not ( "TBP" or "Internal" ) ) )
> >
> > Specifically, I have some text marked with LP + LITEvA + TBP, LPvA +
> LITEvA
> > + TBP, and SAS4 + LITEvA + TBP that is hidden if I use the first
> expression
> > (which is what I want) and showing if I use the second (which is NOT
> what I
> > want).
> >
> > I'll use the first one (as it works correctly), but it is hard to build,
> > hard to read, and I'm still not sure if I have it built to address all
> > possible situations (although it works for the ones I've identified). But
> > I'd still like to understand why the second one doesn't work. Is this a
> > quirk of how FrameMaker interprets conditional expressions?
> >
> > And I'd also still like to know if there's a limit to how long an
> > expression can be. Since I have to add at least 2 new ones now, the
> > question is becoming important.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> >> Does Frame have a limit on how long the expression can be? I know from
> >> annoying experience that it has a limit on how many nested levels you
> can
> >> have. Are there any other gotchas that I should be aware of?
> >>
> >> -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+
> >>
> >> The rest of this email is background info to give y'all an idea of what
> >> I'm dealing with. Feel free to skip it unless you would like to provide
> >> some sympathy or are maybe a conditional expression guru and can offer
> some
> >> advice.
> >>
> >> I've currently got 14 different condition tags in a book, of which 3 are
> >> never seen publicly and are easy to deal with in the expression, 1 is
> used
> >> to indicate information that is under review for inclusion, and the
> other
> >> 10 overlap in various weird ways and took me, no lie, a week of
> >> experimentation to write 8 separate condition expressions to 

Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Robert Lauriston]

Is there any documentation of the precedence and order of evaluation
of FrameMaker's conditional tag logical operators?

I feel like the second one needs more parentheses and might be missing
a NOT. As written, it looks like it will show (1) everything with none
of the condition tags in the set that starts with DocIss as well as
(2) everything that's tagged LITEvA that also has at least one of the
tags in the set that starts with LP unless it has a TBP or Internal
tag.

not ("DocIss" or ... "WriterNote")
or
("LITEvA" and (("LP" or ... or "SAS4vC") and not ("TBP" or "Internal")))

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> No one wants to tackle that wall o' text, huh? :)
>
> How's this, then. Could someone explain why these two expressions don't
> have the same effect, even though (to my eyes) they are logically identical?
>
> This one works:
>
> not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or 
> "NoSeeEm"
> or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or (
> "LITEvA" and "LP" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and
> "LPvA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvB" ) and not (
> "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvC" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP"
> ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA"
> and "SAS4vA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4vB" ) 
> and
> not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4vC" ) and not (
> "Internal" or "TBP" )
>
> This one doesn't:
>
> not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or 
> "NoSeeEm"
> or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or (
> "LITEvA" and (( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or
> "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB"
> or "SAS4vC" ) and not ( "TBP" or "Internal" ) ) )
>
> Specifically, I have some text marked with LP + LITEvA + TBP, LPvA + LITEvA
> + TBP, and SAS4 + LITEvA + TBP that is hidden if I use the first expression
> (which is what I want) and showing if I use the second (which is NOT what I
> want).
>
> I'll use the first one (as it works correctly), but it is hard to build,
> hard to read, and I'm still not sure if I have it built to address all
> possible situations (although it works for the ones I've identified). But
> I'd still like to understand why the second one doesn't work. Is this a
> quirk of how FrameMaker interprets conditional expressions?
>
> And I'd also still like to know if there's a limit to how long an
> expression can be. Since I have to add at least 2 new ones now, the
> question is becoming important.
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
>
>> Does Frame have a limit on how long the expression can be? I know from
>> annoying experience that it has a limit on how many nested levels you can
>> have. Are there any other gotchas that I should be aware of?
>>
>> -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+
>>
>> The rest of this email is background info to give y'all an idea of what
>> I'm dealing with. Feel free to skip it unless you would like to provide
>> some sympathy or are maybe a conditional expression guru and can offer some
>> advice.
>>
>> I've currently got 14 different condition tags in a book, of which 3 are
>> never seen publicly and are easy to deal with in the expression, 1 is used
>> to indicate information that is under review for inclusion, and the other
>> 10 overlap in various weird ways and took me, no lie, a week of
>> experimentation to write 8 separate condition expressions to correctly
>> generate the 8 different books being output from this set of files. (NB:
>> There are 2 IPs. One currently has 3 versions, the other only has 1 but
>> will likely have more soon, so I've already created tags to account for
>> them.)
>>
>> They now want me to add another condition, which will actually wind up
>> being as more than that since this is another IP with an unknown number of
>> versions. (Hell, it's entirely possible the other two IPs will wind up with
>> more versions than I've created tags for already, too.)
>>
>> I think I've worked out the how of adding the various "or" and "and not"
>> expressions in, but I'm worried about any limits to Frame's capabilities
>> here. Currently, my two longest expressions are 270 characters long, and
>> I've managed so far to keep the parenthetical expressions to only 2 levels.
>>
>> Below is one of the long expressions I'm talking about. If anyone has
>> suggestions for making it more elegant, that'd be nice, too. (DocIss,
>> NoSeeEm, and WriterNote are the ones never seen by anyone other than the
>> developers and internal reviewers. TBP is the one for information under
>> review, and is sometimes combined with one or more of the other conditions
>> depending on which book the information is slated for. This thing is a
>> BEAST.)
>>
>> not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or 
>> 

Re: [Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

No one wants to tackle that wall o' text, huh? :)

How's this, then. Could someone explain why these two expressions don't
have the same effect, even though (to my eyes) they are logically identical?

This one works:

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or (
"LITEvA" and "LP" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and
"LPvA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvB" ) and not (
"Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "LPvC" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP"
) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA"
and "SAS4vA" ) and not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4vB" ) and
not ( "Internal" or "TBP" ) or ( "LITEvA" and "SAS4vC" ) and not (
"Internal" or "TBP" )

This one doesn't:

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4" or "SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or (
"LITEvA" and (( "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "SAS4" or
"SAS4vA" or "SAS4vB"
or "SAS4vC" ) and not ( "TBP" or "Internal" ) ) )

Specifically, I have some text marked with LP + LITEvA + TBP, LPvA + LITEvA
+ TBP, and SAS4 + LITEvA + TBP that is hidden if I use the first expression
(which is what I want) and showing if I use the second (which is NOT what I
want).

I'll use the first one (as it works correctly), but it is hard to build,
hard to read, and I'm still not sure if I have it built to address all
possible situations (although it works for the ones I've identified). But
I'd still like to understand why the second one doesn't work. Is this a
quirk of how FrameMaker interprets conditional expressions?

And I'd also still like to know if there's a limit to how long an
expression can be. Since I have to add at least 2 new ones now, the
question is becoming important.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> Does Frame have a limit on how long the expression can be? I know from
> annoying experience that it has a limit on how many nested levels you can
> have. Are there any other gotchas that I should be aware of?
>
> -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+
>
> The rest of this email is background info to give y'all an idea of what
> I'm dealing with. Feel free to skip it unless you would like to provide
> some sympathy or are maybe a conditional expression guru and can offer some
> advice.
>
> I've currently got 14 different condition tags in a book, of which 3 are
> never seen publicly and are easy to deal with in the expression, 1 is used
> to indicate information that is under review for inclusion, and the other
> 10 overlap in various weird ways and took me, no lie, a week of
> experimentation to write 8 separate condition expressions to correctly
> generate the 8 different books being output from this set of files. (NB:
> There are 2 IPs. One currently has 3 versions, the other only has 1 but
> will likely have more soon, so I've already created tags to account for
> them.)
>
> They now want me to add another condition, which will actually wind up
> being as more than that since this is another IP with an unknown number of
> versions. (Hell, it's entirely possible the other two IPs will wind up with
> more versions than I've created tags for already, too.)
>
> I think I've worked out the how of adding the various "or" and "and not"
> expressions in, but I'm worried about any limits to Frame's capabilities
> here. Currently, my two longest expressions are 270 characters long, and
> I've managed so far to keep the parenthetical expressions to only 2 levels.
>
> Below is one of the long expressions I'm talking about. If anyone has
> suggestions for making it more elegant, that'd be nice, too. (DocIss,
> NoSeeEm, and WriterNote are the ones never seen by anyone other than the
> developers and internal reviewers. TBP is the one for information under
> review, and is sometimes combined with one or more of the other conditions
> depending on which book the information is slated for. This thing is a
> BEAST.)
>
> not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or 
> "NoSeeEm"
> or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or ( "SAS4" and (
> "LPvB" or "LPvC" ) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal") or ( "SAS4vA" and (
> "LPvB" or "LPvC" ) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal")
>
> Regards,
>
> Lin Sims
>



-- 
Lin Sims
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[Framers] Are there limits on Conditional Expressions? If so, what are they?

[Lin Sims]

Does Frame have a limit on how long the expression can be? I know from
annoying experience that it has a limit on how many nested levels you can
have. Are there any other gotchas that I should be aware of?

-+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+ -+

The rest of this email is background info to give y'all an idea of what I'm
dealing with. Feel free to skip it unless you would like to provide some
sympathy or are maybe a conditional expression guru and can offer some
advice.

I've currently got 14 different condition tags in a book, of which 3 are
never seen publicly and are easy to deal with in the expression, 1 is used
to indicate information that is under review for inclusion, and the other
10 overlap in various weird ways and took me, no lie, a week of
experimentation to write 8 separate condition expressions to correctly
generate the 8 different books being output from this set of files. (NB:
There are 2 IPs. One currently has 3 versions, the other only has 1 but
will likely have more soon, so I've already created tags to account for
them.)

They now want me to add another condition, which will actually wind up
being as more than that since this is another IP with an unknown number of
versions. (Hell, it's entirely possible the other two IPs will wind up with
more versions than I've created tags for already, too.)

I think I've worked out the how of adding the various "or" and "and not"
expressions in, but I'm worried about any limits to Frame's capabilities
here. Currently, my two longest expressions are 270 characters long, and
I've managed so far to keep the parenthetical expressions to only 2 levels.

Below is one of the long expressions I'm talking about. If anyone has
suggestions for making it more elegant, that'd be nice, too. (DocIss,
NoSeeEm, and WriterNote are the ones never seen by anyone other than the
developers and internal reviewers. TBP is the one for information under
review, and is sometimes combined with one or more of the other conditions
depending on which book the information is slated for. This thing is a
BEAST.)

not ( "DocIss" or "Internal" or "LP" or "LPvA" or "LPvB" or "LPvC" or "NoSeeEm"
or "SAS4vB" or "SAS4vC" or "TBP" or "WriterNote" ) or ( "SAS4" and ( "LPvB" or
"LPvC" ) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal") or ( "SAS4vA" and ( "LPvB" or "LPvC"
) ) and not ("TBP" or "Internal")

Regards,

Lin Sims
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