Re: [Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output
At 14:13 -0500 12/9/20, Peter Gold wrote: >...You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the automatic >replacement of InterLeaf. Oh wow, the Echoes of Times Past! :-) Interleaf: the app that required one full-time 'administrator' per five user seats. >This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just >an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random >old stuff, But maybe this is... >...it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company that >rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology and Adobe >did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got laid off with a >few thousand others, when the company had gone into several tailspins because >management had overruled QA and released supremely buggy products which lost >customers' faith, Ouch. Bad bad policy. [Ex-Sw QA inspector here] > I met someone who told me he'd been the last project manager on the product. > He'd been called in "to fix the problems in quality, for good, this time, and > get the company back on track." He told me that the first place he started > was with meeting the developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs > and irritants. First on the list was the odd differences with how the > built-in text editor that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data > into database fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, > depending on how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for > this editor,' and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to > write an editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who > needed one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course, > didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother? So, > that's when I left." ROFL. Who here hasn't hacked their own editor? Heck, I even hacked my own shell. (But I did document and share it.) >It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into >PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem. > >Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and also >good that you've shared it with the community. And thank you, Peter, for sharing your reminiscences. It's made me feel ever so slightly more 'valid', to use the currently favored woke term. -- Steve [ancient SWEng with more experience than is now comfortable] ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output
TOCs are generated, so perhaps there's some indicator in the file or the properties it assigns to content, that makes the PDF conversion processors work differently. Obviously your results prove that the different routes to PDF do work differently. Just wondering in your copious free time if you've tried creating a few new instances of problem content in the problem source file that would be extracted to a TOC, and observing if the problem always occurs. That would make a great package of evidence to sent to the bug-fixers. (Thinks: Yeah, it'll go at the end of the list that's been growing since FM3.) On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 2:34 PM Lin Sims wrote: > I dunno. I mean, obviously the problem lies with the PDF generation, but I > suspect the fact that it messed up the one word (twice!), but only in the > TOC is not going to be enough for anyone to figure out what the issue is. > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 3:14 PM Peter Gold > wrote: > > > Well, now that you've discovered the exact pathway to that creates the > > error, of course you're going to report it, so it gets on the list of > fixes > > needed. You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the > automatic > > replacement of InterLeaf. > > > > This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just > > an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random > > old stuff, it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company > > that rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology > and > > Adobe did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got > laid-off > > with a few thousand others, when the company had gone into several > > tailspins because management had overruled QA and released > supremely-buggy > > products which lost customers' faith, I met someone who told me he'd been > > the last project manager on the product. He'd been called in "to fix the > > problems in quality, for good, this time, and get the company back on > > track." He told me that the first place he started was with meeting the > > developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs and irritants. > > First on the list was the odd differences with how the built-in text > editor > > that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data into database > > fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, depending on > > how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for this > editor,' > > and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to write an > > editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who needed > > one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course, > > didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother? > > So, that's when I left." > > > > It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into > > PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem. > > > > Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and > also > > good that you've shared it with the community. > > > > > -- > Lin Sims > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output
I dunno. I mean, obviously the problem lies with the PDF generation, but I suspect the fact that it messed up the one word (twice!), but only in the TOC is not going to be enough for anyone to figure out what the issue is. On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 3:14 PM Peter Gold wrote: > Well, now that you've discovered the exact pathway to that creates the > error, of course you're going to report it, so it gets on the list of fixes > needed. You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the automatic > replacement of InterLeaf. > > This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just > an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random > old stuff, it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company > that rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology and > Adobe did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got laid-off > with a few thousand others, when the company had gone into several > tailspins because management had overruled QA and released supremely-buggy > products which lost customers' faith, I met someone who told me he'd been > the last project manager on the product. He'd been called in "to fix the > problems in quality, for good, this time, and get the company back on > track." He told me that the first place he started was with meeting the > developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs and irritants. > First on the list was the odd differences with how the built-in text editor > that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data into database > fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, depending on > how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for this editor,' > and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to write an > editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who needed > one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course, > didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother? > So, that's when I left." > > It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into > PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem. > > Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and also > good that you've shared it with the community. > -- Lin Sims ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
[Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output
Well, now that you've discovered the exact pathway to that creates the error, of course you're going to report it, so it gets on the list of fixes needed. You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the automatic replacement of InterLeaf. This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random old stuff, it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company that rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology and Adobe did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got laid-off with a few thousand others, when the company had gone into several tailspins because management had overruled QA and released supremely-buggy products which lost customers' faith, I met someone who told me he'd been the last project manager on the product. He'd been called in "to fix the problems in quality, for good, this time, and get the company back on track." He told me that the first place he started was with meeting the developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs and irritants. First on the list was the odd differences with how the built-in text editor that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data into database fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, depending on how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for this editor,' and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to write an editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who needed one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course, didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother? So, that's when I left." It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem. Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and also good that you've shared it with the community. On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 1:23 PM Lin Sims wrote: > Spellcheck did indeed used to replace Interleaf with FrameMaker, but I > don't think it does anymore. > > When it converts from Frame to PDF, that will make the link unclickable. > Also, I really don't want to have to apply a character tag to text created > in a generated document every time I regenerate the TOC. Acrobat PDF is > supposed to make an output that looks exactly like the input. > > I should add (shouldn't I?) that the conversion from FM to PDF of the > actual chapters do NOT show that weird spacing for the word "Software". > Only in the TOC. Only those two lines. > > I've reinstalled Acrobat DC. I've MIF-washed. I've used both the Save as > PDF (my usual route) and the Publish pod. They are all producing the same > result. > > Ah! But printing the book using Adobe PDF *WORKED*! (That'd be File > Print > Book). I believe that uses Distiller directly or something? I forget. But > it worked! > > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 1:32 PM Peter Gold > wrote: > > > Hi, Lin: > > > > AHA! It's a secret plot of some kind. I remember there was a time long > ago, > > when FM's auto-correct would replace "InterLeaf" or some other > proprietary > > competitor, with "FrameMaker." > > > > The word-spacing computation might have a rounding error when it > encounters > > specific glyph combinations in this particular font. Perhaps substitute a > > similar font for the problematic word(s) or adjust the kerning or > > letter-spacing, perhaps by applying a character format that sets one or > the > > other or both properties. > > > > HTH > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Lin Sims wrote: > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a > > > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a > > > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, > etc. > > Is > > > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific > > glyph > > > > pairs? > > > > > > > > > The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to > > the > > > TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The > > > pictures you see are the "after" of that try. > > > > > > The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word > spacing > > > adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number > > > (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but > > since > > > all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, > and > > > only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the > > letter > > > spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character > tags > > > applied in either the source file or the generated TOC. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF > it > > > > again. Observe the results. > > > > > > > > > No joy on this. There appears to be some
