OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-23 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Indeed, yes. Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing marketing expenditure (e.g. the "standardised" UI) and PR, and feature bloat in place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
: Shmuel Wolfson shmue...@gmail.com Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Paula Stern pa...@writepoint.com If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year--

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Dave.Stamm
Of Mike Wickham Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Richard Doll
of Oklahoma City. Scrooge Graphic Communications sgmli...@tds.net - Original Message - From: Shlomo Perets To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Just signed the petition

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Indeed, yes. Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing marketing expenditure (e.g. the standardised UI) and PR, and feature bloat in place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they need

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Bethany Lee
Cool! Signed! Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription revenues aren't lower than expected. You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Done and FB'd. Alan On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: > Yes, please sign and pass it on: > http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model > > > Regards, > Shmuel Wolfson > Technical Writer > 052-763-7133 > --

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Shlomo Perets
-- From: Shmuel Wolfson <shmue...@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Cc: Paula Stern If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying i

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Mike Wickham
> I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year--

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread dave.st...@gdc4s.com
eusers.com] On Behalf Of Mike Wickham Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35 To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-22 Thread Richard Doll
more $$. beware of stuff that emanates within clouds If in doubt . . . ask a resident of Oklahoma City. Scrooge Graphic Communications sgmlindy at tds.net - Original Message - From: Shlomo Perets To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM Subject:

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote:

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shlomo Perets
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre,

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Carol J. Elkins
Here's mine: I want the availability of my software to be independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need is to lose access to the tools that are required to generate my income. I want it to be MY decision as to when I update my software,

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Done and FB'd. Alan On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 -- AlphaByte PO Box

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tammy Van Boening
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tori Muir
...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: >Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View >of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) >makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, >TCS/FrameMaker

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shmuel Wolfson
Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: > At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: >

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Shlomo Perets
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: "It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre,

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Carol J. Elkins
Here's mine: I want the availability of my software to be independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need is to lose access to the tools that are required to generate my income. I want it to be MY decision as to when I update my software, not

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tammy Van Boening
at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Tori Muir
essage- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subsc

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Bethany Lee
Cool! Signed! Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-21 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription revenues aren't lower than expected. You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message.

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Karen Robbins
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe’s View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen ___ You

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Karen Robbins
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe?s View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen -- next part -- An HTML

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-20 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-17 Thread Alan T Litchfield
ces at > lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:31 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only > > Customers value a business based on the goods or serv

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Craig Ede
: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM To: Alan T Litchfield Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Craig Ede
] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
The hell you say. The only deadline I've ever missed was the result of my department's PCs being updated to Word 2003 without warning. There were bugs that made it impossible to update the headers and footers in a new features doc that had to be in Word format because marketing had the final cut.

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
Hello Everybody, For the record, Adobe has made no announcements about Tech Comm Suite, FrameMaker or RoboHelp going to subscription only. The announcements discussed in this thread only involve Creative Suite. The change in future distribution of Creative Cloud was announced at the Adobe MAX

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Flare doesn't offer anything I need that I don't already have from FrameMaker and WebWorks, and it lacks some things I find very useful, such as WYSIWYG editing for continuous PDF preview and the ability to save change markup to PDF for review. And neither do the thing I'm most interested in

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
I appreciate everyone's feedback, but plans to build a  competitive product and business plans for a competitive product may be a bit premature.  ;-) I strongly disagree. I think it's been a long time coming. I want more choices. I want to be able to see the text in the index dialog box.

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread David Creamer
Not sure why you need to doubt my statement--but, let's see... I use on a regular basis: Photoshop Lightroom InDesign (with DPS) InCopy (currently I purchase separately, but it will be the new ACC release) Dreamweaver Edge Animate/Services Premiere Pro/Encore Media Encoder After Effects

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Alan T Litchfield
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Adobe already controls piracy using activation. The only difference with the subscription model is that your license has a timeout. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Craig Ede craig...@hotmail.com wrote: The subscription model probably does help them deal with piracy. In that sense, they are

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years? An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level variables, real templates, and

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't doubt your statement, I was just curious. I didn't notice that you do training stuff, that often requires a bigger and broader toolkit. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 11:01 AM, David Creamer ideasli...@ideastraining.com wrote: Not sure why you need to doubt my statement--but, let's see... I

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as new features in later releases. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the statement I thought

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for.  Good point. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. Good point. Nadine Indeed a very good point! For me, book level variables are vital for my specifications ... that is what BookVars from Leximation provides and has yet to be

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
> I appreciate everyone's feedback, but plans to build a? > competitive product and business plans for a competitive product may be a bit > premature.? ;-) I strongly disagree. I think it's been a long time coming. I want more choices. I want to be able to see the text in the index dialog

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread David Creamer
Not sure why you need to doubt my statement--but, let's see... I use on a regular basis: Photoshop Lightroom InDesign (with DPS) InCopy (currently I purchase separately, but it will be the new ACC release) Dreamweaver Edge Animate/Services Premiere Pro/Encore Media Encoder After Effects

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Adobe already controls piracy using activation. The only difference with the subscription model is that your license has a timeout. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Craig Ede wrote: > The subscription model probably does help them deal with piracy. In that > sense, they are urging a part of

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years? An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level variables, real templates, and

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't doubt your statement, I was just curious. I didn't notice that you do training stuff, that often requires a bigger and broader toolkit. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 11:01 AM, David Creamer wrote: > Not sure why you need to doubt my statement--but, let's see... > > I use on a regular basis: >

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Robert Lauriston
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as "new features" in later releases. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. > > His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the > statement "I thought was worth

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Writer
>An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the >plug-ins that people are willing to pay for.? Good point. Nadine

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-16 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
> >An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the > >plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. > > Good point. > > Nadine Indeed a very good point! For me, book level variables are vital for my specifications ... that is what BookVars from Leximation provides and has yet

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Robert Lauriston
- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:33 AM To: craig...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I say we start a new

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread David Creamer
So far, most have been talking about the Adobe Creative Cloud. I found that I need to subscribe to the ACC _and_ the Technical Communication Suite ($50 plus $70 per month US) to get all the software I need. Unfortunately, there are two programs that overlap (AI and Acrobat). I wish Adobe would

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Yves Barbion
Good idea, David, a Creative Technical Communication Suite or better still, custom suites at a discount, for example: InDesign + FrameMaker + Illustrator + Photoshop + Acrobat (I don't need Captivate, Dreamweaver etc.). I also hope that the hardware (computer, hard disk space, RAM) can keep up

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Robert Lauriston
What Adobe programs do you need that aren't in TCS 4? Illustrator replaced Photoshop, which was in TCS 3.5, but there are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 7:11 AM, David Creamer ideasli...@ideastraining.com wrote: So far, most have been talking about

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Liz Fraley
This move is problematic for enterprises who exchange and archive files and who need the ability to do version management. (And by that I mean tool version.) Lots of customers are deliberately on old versions because moving is a big deal and slow: You want to be sure that you can open old files

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Francis Novak
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Isn't that what MadCap tried to do? -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) Sent

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread David Creamer
So far, most have been talking about the Adobe Creative Cloud. I found that I need to subscribe to the ACC _and_ the Technical Communication Suite ($50 plus $70 per month US) to get all the software I need. Unfortunately, there are two programs that overlap (AI and Acrobat). I wish Adobe would

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Yves Barbion
Good idea, David, a "Creative Technical Communication Suite" or better still, custom suites at a discount, for example: InDesign + FrameMaker + Illustrator + Photoshop + Acrobat (I don't need Captivate, Dreamweaver etc.). I also hope that the hardware (computer, hard disk space, RAM) can keep up

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 16:57 +0200 15/5/13, Yves Barbion wrote: >Yes, it is definitely a good thing if a subscription-based licensing plan >always gives you the latest version of the software unless, of course, if you >have to buy a new computer every two years or so. Actually, this is not always the case, as

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Robert Lauriston
What Adobe programs do you need that aren't in TCS 4? Illustrator replaced Photoshop, which was in TCS 3.5, but there are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 7:11 AM, David Creamer wrote: > So far, most have been talking about the Adobe Creative Cloud. I

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Liz Fraley
This move is problematic for enterprises who exchange and archive files and who need the ability to do version management. (And by that I mean tool version.) Lots of customers are deliberately on old versions because moving is a big deal and slow: You want to be sure that you can open old files

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Francis Novak
at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Isn't that what MadCap tried to do? -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Craig Ede wrote: > Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does > mean that you have access to a given software packa

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM To: Alan T Litchfield Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Forum Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: > ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody e

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Robert Lauriston
The hell you say. The only deadline I've ever missed was the result of my department's PCs being updated to Word 2003 without warning. There were bugs that made it impossible to update the headers and footers in a new features doc that had to be in Word format because marketing had the final cut.

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
Hello Everybody, For the record, Adobe has made no announcements about Tech Comm Suite, FrameMaker or RoboHelp going to subscription only. The announcements discussed in this thread only involve Creative Suite. The change in future distribution of Creative Cloud was announced at the Adobe MAX

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Maxwell Hoffmann
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-15 Thread Robert Lauriston
Flare doesn't offer anything I need that I don't already have from FrameMaker and WebWorks, and it lacks some things I find very useful, such as WYSIWYG editing for continuous PDF preview and the ability to save change markup to PDF for review. And neither do the thing I'm most interested in

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe has gone direct to the market. Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Ed Nodland
I think my response is far from the mission of this forum but the statement below just hooked me, it is also a nice diversion from the daily work to read all the responses, and I bet our thoughts trickle back into Adobe. A previous post said: The problem with customers is that they cost money to

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Gillian Flato
@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I raise my hand ... :) Now ... who is responsible for getting funding? Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer

Re: FM8 and Win8 (Was: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only)

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
I don't think MS's new can't-call-it-Metro UI has gotten any traction in corporate environments. If they don't want Windows 8 to be a bigger flop than Vista, compatibility is essential. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Lea Rush l...@astoria-pacific.com wrote: I'm one who's stayed with FM8 and

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Heiko Haida
Dear Rick, please allow one note about the print engine. FrameMaker is still using the old Distiller engine (at least version 10 does). I recently had to switch a workflow from Indesign to FrameMaker and found it annoying that Indesign would produce a valid PDF right away whereas with

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Ken Poshedly
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Mon, May 13, 2013 9:03:21 AM Subject: RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only 2013-05-13-01T13:00Z There's that death knell again . . .. Dave Stamm Information Engineer -Original Message- From: framers-boun

Re: FM8 and Win8 (Was: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only)

2013-05-14 Thread Frank Rees
...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers- boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:34 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Old versions of FrameMaker do what FrameMaker used to do as well

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Harro de Jong harro.dej...@triviewgroup.com wrote: The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever ... Maybe licensed resellers have to return all old software when a new version is released, but the FrameMaker 10 license allows you to sell your rights: You

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: The purpose of business is

RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Rick Quatro
need quality print and PDF output. Thanks for the feedback. Rick From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Heiko Haida Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:11 PM To: Framers Subject: RE: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Alan T Litchfield
Thanks. Those are the corporate resellers I was referring to previously. The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe has gone direct to the market. The added value is worked out in terms

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I > referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe > has gone direct to the market. Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Rick Quatro
d, especially if you need quality print and PDF output. Thanks for the feedback. Rick From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Heiko Haida Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:11 PM To: Framers Subject: RE: Corporate madn

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-14 Thread Robert Lauriston
mers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at > lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:33 AM > To: craigede at hotmail.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Rickaby
At 07:11 +1200 13/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You know, retail channel? Not shops as such: my understanding is that they sell Adobe products and also training. I have dealt with two recently: Certitec and Phoenix Software.

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Johnson
Adobe introduces subscription-based licensing. So many of its users find it an outstanding value that over time, most of them license software by subscription. Adobe is rewarded for being innovative and Adobe serves its customers better. Everybody wins. Adobe ends its relationship with resellers

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Robert Lauriston
Old versions of FrameMaker do what FrameMaker used to do as well as ever. I'd really like to get my hands on a copy of FrameMaker 8. That whole model seems outdated to me. I'd like to switch to Confluence. On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: Time for a

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Robert Lauriston
One benefit of the subscription model is that a company can focus 100% on the current and next releases. That should significantly reduce support costs, eliminates the cost of providing and distributing patch releases for old versions, and reduces various other costs due to reduced complexity. On

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Steve Johnson
That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. You're side of the mark about

Re: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread rebecca officer
Hi Jeremy Did you consider expanding LaTeX? A fully-featured reliable wysiwyg interface for LaTeX could be a strong unstructured FM alternative. It's years since I used LaTeX much but I found it pretty good when I did. Not easy, but good. Cheers Rebecca Jeremy H. Griffith

RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-13 Thread Harro de Jong
Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count on (and not some changing version of it). Also, given that license, they cannot revoke your ability of use the software in that

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