Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-16 Thread Roger Shuttleworth
This is yet one more reason always to work with text symbols switched on 
(View  Text Symbols). As Rick says, a table footnote (or indeed a 
regular footnote) is in its own separate flow, with an end-of-flow 
symbol visible at the end of the footnote. You can create new paragraphs 
within that footnote flow, since some footnotes require more than one 
paragraph, but anything added before the end-of-flow symbol remains 
within the footnote flow. You can format it however you like, but it is 
still part of the footnote.


The fact that FM does not allow you to create a table within the 
footnote flow is simply a design decision, not a bug, and makes perfect 
sense to me.


What *really* annoys, though, is how FM handles long footnotes, often 
pushing them to the next page. You can then end up with two footnotes on 
a page, both labelled 1. Grrr.


Roger Shuttleworth

On 14/05/2015 2:27 PM, Roman Banks wrote:

Hi Rick,

That works, you are right. I was sure that if I apply the Body pgf tag
to the new line I will exit the footnote flow. And it looked like so --
I added a regular Body text line. I still think that FM should exit the
footnote flow automatically if you apply the Body tag to the new line. :-)

Thanks again,
Roman



On Thursday, May 14, 2015 4:16 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:


Hi Roman,
When you create a new line, you are still in the footnote flow. You have
to click after the table anchor and create a new paragraph. Your cursor
will be below the table footnote and you can add another table.
Rick
*From:*Roman Banks [mailto:banks_ro...@yahoo.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:59 AM
*To:* Rick Quatro; 'Framers'
*Subject:* Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table
footnote.
To reproduce:
1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.
2. Click Special -- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after
the table.
3. Create a new line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.
4. Try to insert a new table...
Regards,
Roman
On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com
mailto:banks_ro...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Rick,
Thank you for your response!
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a
footnote. I was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that
appears right under the preceding table.
So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't add a table
on this line.
Regards,
Roman
On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com
mailto:r...@rickquatro.com wrote:
Hi Roman,
Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a table to footnotes,
but you can add a table to the main flow after the footnote. I just
tried it with FM 12.
Rick
Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com mailto:r...@frameexpert.com
*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Roman Banks
*Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
*To:* Framers
*Subject:* FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.
Hello fellows,
I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert
Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a
table on a new line after a table footnote.
Have you ever encountered this issue?
Regards,
Roman




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RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-15 Thread Craig Ede
Point taken. And thank god for that thought! Yet I see such formatting all the 
time.

Craig

Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 12:23:16 -0400
From: srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com
To: craig...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.


  

  
  
... I don't think she was suggesting to
  use the Enter key as a formatting tool. :-)

  

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RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-15 Thread Stuart Rogers
I understood Anna's suggestion to be that one should add a /temporarily/ 
empty paragraph and then move up one line before inserting a table, so 
that when you need to add text after the table, you already have a 
visible text symbol to place your cursor ahead of. If the table is not 
the last thing in the file, then that step could be skipped or the 
temporary empty pgf deleted. I don't think she was suggesting to use the 
Enter key as a formatting tool. :-)


On 2015-May-15 9:11 AM, Craig Ede wrote:
...except when it gives you a blank page that your don't want at the 
end of a document. When the table is not at the end of the document, 
it's pretty easy to see the separate flow that a footnote is in. 
Better to use the Space Below Table setting to space your tables from 
the text below.


Craig

 From: annalena.soderl...@stonebeach.se
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: VB: framers Digest, Vol 115, Issue 12
 Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:03:52 +

 Hi,

 To avoid these table troubles make sure when inserting a table to 
always have at least one empty paragraph below it. That makes it so 
much easier when you want to add more things below the first table. 
Regardless TableFootnotes.


 You will then see exactly where to put your insertion point.

 Best regards, Anna Lena
 StoneBeach AB Sweden



--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com

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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Roman Banks
To reproduce:
1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.2. Click Special 
-- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after the table.3. Create a new 
line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.4. Try to insert a new table...
Regards,Roman 


 On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
   

 Hi Rick,
Thank you for your response!
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a footnote. I 
was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears right under the 
preceding table.So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't 
add a table on this line.
Regards,Roman  


 On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:
   

 #yiv4505705626 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 
4;}#yiv4505705626 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv4505705626 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv4505705626 
filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv4505705626 
p.yiv4505705626MsoNormal, #yiv4505705626  li.yiv4505705626MsoNormal, 
#yiv4505705626 div.yiv4505705626MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4505705626 a:link, 
#yiv4505705626 span.yiv4505705626MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4505705626 a:visited, #yiv4505705626 
span.yiv4505705626MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4505705626 
span.yiv4505705626EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4505705626 
.yiv4505705626MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv4505705626 filtered 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4505705626 div.yiv4505705626WordSection1 
{}#yiv4505705626 Hi Roman,  Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a 
table to footnotes, but you can add a table to the main flow after the 
footnote. I just tried it with FM 12.  Rick  Rick QuatroCarmen Publishing 
inc.585-366-4017r...@frameexpert.com      From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Roman Banks
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
To: Framers
Subject: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.  
Hello fellows,  I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The 
Insert Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a 
table on a new line after a table footnote.  Have you ever encountered this 
issue?    Regards,Roman

   

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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Lin Sims
Roman, it still sounds like you're trying to insert a table into a
footnote. Is your cursor still in the footnote when you insert the new line
and apply Body to it? If so, you're still in the table footnote even though
it doesn't look like it. You have to put your cursor on the same line as
the table anchor and then create the new line.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com wrote:

 To reproduce:

 1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.
 2. Click Special -- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after the
 table.
 3. Create a new line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.
 4. Try to insert a new table...

 Regards,
 Roman



   On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com
 wrote:


 Hi Rick,

 Thank you for your response!

 I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a footnote.
 I was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears right
 under the preceding table.
 So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't add a table
 on this line.

 Regards,
 Roman




   On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com
 wrote:


 Hi Roman,

 Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a table to footnotes, but
 you can add a table to the main flow after the footnote. I just tried it
 with FM 12.

 Rick

 Rick Quatro
 Carmen Publishing Inc.
 585-366-4017
 r...@frameexpert.com



 *From:* framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:
 framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Roman Banks
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
 *To:* Framers
 *Subject:* FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table
 footnote.

 Hello fellows,

 I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert
 Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a
 table on a new line after a table footnote.

 Have you ever encountered this issue?

 Regards,
 Roman





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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Lin Sims
I am unable to reproduce the error as described. Is it possible you're
actually trying to insert the table into a new line in the footnote, rather
than the line after the table anchor?

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hello fellows,

 I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert
 Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a
 table on a new line after a table footnote.

 Have you ever encountered this issue?

 Regards,
 Roman

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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Lin Sims
Rick,

We have to stop meeting like this. laughing

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Lin Sims ljsims...@gmail.com wrote:

 Roman, it still sounds like you're trying to insert a table into a
 footnote. Is your cursor still in the footnote when you insert the new line
 and apply Body to it? If so, you're still in the table footnote even though
 it doesn't look like it. You have to put your cursor on the same line as
 the table anchor and then create the new line.

 On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com
 wrote:

 To reproduce:

 1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.
 2. Click Special -- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after the
 table.
 3. Create a new line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.
 4. Try to insert a new table...

 Regards,
 Roman



   On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com
 wrote:


 Hi Rick,

 Thank you for your response!

 I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a
 footnote. I was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears
 right under the preceding table.
 So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't add a table
 on this line.

 Regards,
 Roman




   On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com
 wrote:


 Hi Roman,

 Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a table to footnotes, but
 you can add a table to the main flow after the footnote. I just tried it
 with FM 12.

 Rick

 Rick Quatro
 Carmen Publishing Inc.
 585-366-4017
 r...@frameexpert.com



 *From:* framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:
 framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Roman Banks
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
 *To:* Framers
 *Subject:* FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table
 footnote.

 Hello fellows,

 I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert
 Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a
 table on a new line after a table footnote.

 Have you ever encountered this issue?

 Regards,
 Roman





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RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Rick Quatro
Hi Roman,

 

Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a table to footnotes, but you 
can add a table to the main flow after the footnote. I just tried it with FM 12.

 

Rick

 

Rick Quatro

Carmen Publishing Inc.

585-366-4017

r...@frameexpert.com

 

 

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Roman Banks
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
To: Framers
Subject: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

 

Hello fellows,

 

I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert Table 
option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a table on a new 
line after a table footnote.

 

Have you ever encountered this issue?  

 

Regards,

Roman

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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Roman Banks
Hi Rick,
Thank you for your response!
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a footnote. I 
was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears right under the 
preceding table.So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't 
add a table on this line.
Regards,Roman  


 On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:
   

 #yiv3170737741 #yiv3170737741 -- _filtered #yiv3170737741 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3170737741 
{panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3170737741 
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3170737741 
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3170737741 
#yiv3170737741 p.yiv3170737741MsoNormal, #yiv3170737741 
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#yiv3170737741 span.yiv3170737741MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3170737741 a:visited, #yiv3170737741 
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{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3170737741 
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.yiv3170737741MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3170737741 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3170737741 div.yiv3170737741WordSection1 
{}#yiv3170737741 Hi Roman,  Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a 
table to footnotes, but you can add a table to the main flow after the 
footnote. I just tried it with FM 12.  Rick  Rick QuatroCarmen Publishing 
inc.585-366-4017r...@frameexpert.com      From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Roman Banks
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
To: Framers
Subject: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.  
Hello fellows,  I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The 
Insert Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a 
table on a new line after a table footnote.  Have you ever encountered this 
issue?    Regards,Roman

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RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Rick Quatro
Hi Roman,

 

When you create a new line, you are still in the footnote flow. You have to 
click after the table anchor and create a new paragraph. Your cursor will be 
below the table footnote and you can add another table.

 

Rick

 

From: Roman Banks [mailto:banks_ro...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:59 AM
To: Rick Quatro; 'Framers'
Subject: Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

 

To reproduce:

 

1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.

2. Click Special -- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after the table.

3. Create a new line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.

4. Try to insert a new table...

 

Regards,

Roman

 

 

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks banks_ro...@yahoo.com wrote:

 

Hi Rick,

 

Thank you for your response!

 

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a footnote. I 
was going to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears right under the 
preceding table.

So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't add a table on 
this line.

 

Regards,

Roman

 

 

 

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:

 

Hi Roman,

 

Footnotes have their own flow and you can't add a table to footnotes, but you 
can add a table to the main flow after the footnote. I just tried it with FM 12.

 

Rick

 

Rick Quatro

Carmen Publishing Inc.

585-366-4017

r...@frameexpert.com

 

 

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Roman Banks
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
To: Framers
Subject: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

 

Hello fellows,

 

I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert Table 
option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a table on a new 
line after a table footnote.

 

Have you ever encountered this issue?  

 

Regards,

Roman

 

 

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Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Roman Banks
Hi Rick,
That works, you are right. I was sure that if I apply the Body pgf tag to the 
new line I will exit the footnote flow. And it looked like so -- I added a 
regular Body text line. I still think that FM should exit the footnote flow 
automatically if you apply the Body tag to the new line. :-)
Thanks again,Roman 


 On Thursday, May 14, 2015 4:16 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:
   

 #yiv6701437392 #yiv6701437392 -- _filtered #yiv6701437392 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6701437392 
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1.0in;}#yiv6701437392 div.yiv6701437392WordSection1 {}#yiv6701437392 Hi Roman,  
When you create a new line, you are still in the footnote flow. You have to 
click after the table anchor and create a new paragraph. Your cursor will be 
below the table footnote and you can add another table.  Rick  From: Roman 
Banks [mailto:banks_ro...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:59 AM
To: Rick Quatro; 'Framers'
Subject: Re: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.  
To reproduce:  1. In an existing table, put your cursor in one of the cells.2. 
Click Special -- Footnote. The table footnote appears right after the table.3. 
Create a new line and apply the Body pgf style to this line.4. Try to insert a 
new table...  Regards,Roman    On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:52 PM, Roman Banks 
banks_ro...@yahoo.com wrote:  Hi Rick,  Thank you for your response!  I think 
you misunderstood me. I wasn't going to add a table to a footnote. I was going 
to add a table after a *table footnote* that appears right under the preceding 
table.So even if I apply the Body pgf tag to the new line, I can't add a table 
on this line.  Regards,Roman     On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:39 PM, Rick Quatro 
r...@rickquatro.com wrote:  Hi Roman, Footnotes have their own flow and you 
can't add a table to footnotes, but you can add a table to the main flow after 
the footnote. I just tried it with FM 12. Rick Rick QuatroCarmen Publishing 
inc.585-366-4017r...@frameexpert.com   From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Roman Banks
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:28 AM
To: Framers
Subject: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote. Hello 
fellows, I've just reproduced this issue both in FM10 and in FM12. The Insert 
Table option under the Table menu is grayed out if you try to add a table on 
a new line after a table footnote. Have you ever encountered this issue?   
Regards,Roman    

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RE: FrameMaker Bug: inability to add a table after a table footnote.

2015-05-14 Thread Craig Ede
This is a good reason for making your Table footnote format have a smaller 
format, so that the user realizes the s/he is in a footnote flow. 

I had an example at work today where two table footnotes were at the bottom of 
a table that spanned multiple pages. One was at that bottom of the last page of 
the table, the second was at the top of the following page. That page was the 
last page of the document. Two paragraphs were to follow the table, but one was 
inserted into the same flow with the second footnote. The other was in the main 
flow just past the footnote. The end of flow marker at the end of the footnote 
flow was the only thing that let you know that something was amiss since the 
fonts were the same size for both the body text in the main flow and the text 
in the footnotes.

The table was just wide enough to make the indent for the footnote line up with 
the body text indent.

I expect that at  some point in the life of this document, the footnote was at 
the end of the document with the end of the main text flow just above the table 
(5 pages back) on the paragraph where the table was anchored. Seeing the end of 
flow in the footnote or having turned off Text Symbols, the person adding the 
not just clicked at the end of the text, hit Return and formatted the next 
paragraph with a Body paratag (of course, it didn't line up, since its indent 
was now coming from a point related to the edge of the table and not the left 
side of the text box on the master page. So they just overrode the format to 
make it line up as it should. 

So the next problem is, what do you do when the page fills up with the footnote 
and it can't wrap all that text to the next page?

Craig
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