Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-20 Thread Robert Lauriston
That's my workaround.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com wrote:
 ... On some titles, adding non-breaking space(s) to bring one or more words 
 to the second line improves readability.
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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-20 Thread Thornton, Daniel
We had never been able to solve the problem with bad TOC line wrapping until 
Shlomo Perets posted the solution here last year:

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:47:09 +0200
From: Shlomo Perets shlo...@microtype.com
To: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: trick for wrapping headings in TOC?
Message-ID: 4.3.2.7.2.20120312092458.058bb...@mail.bezeqint.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Robert,

You wrote:

TOC paragraph tags in this project have a single Right tab stop at the 
right margin.

If a heading is just the wrong length, only the page number is bumped 
the next line and appears at the left margin. If it's enough longer 
that a word wraps to the next line, the page number is at the right 
place.

Is there a fix for this other than the kludge of putting a non-breaking 
space between the last two words of the heading?

foo . . . . . . . . . . 1
bar bar bar bar bar
2
bar bar bar bar bar
  bar . . . . . . . . . 3


For the TOC paragraph tags:
Specify a value such as 200% for Minimum Word Spacing (Pgf Designer, Advanced 
tab); make it higher or lower to adjust the wrap region as needed.

In the TOC reference page, TOC flow:
Specify an additional tab between $paratext and $pagenum, eg 
$paratext\t\t$pagenum
(note: I prefer using \t instead of the Tab character as it is always visible; 
the tab itself is used on the body page and may not be interpreted  properly in 
the Ref page anyway because of the different column width)


Shlomo Perets

MicroType, http://www.microtype.com
FrameMaker/TCS training  consulting * FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants
#
[You wrote:] 
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:44:02 -0400
From: Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists
Message-ID: 773bbfff-3dc1-479c-a18c-3238780f0...@mahler.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not sure what you mean by isn't this just as simple as changing the 
paragraph setting of your second and subsequent lines to start at the point of 
the end of the leader dot's of the first line?  If I understand what you are 
saying, wouldn't we end up with a long indent on those lines?

On Jerilynne's comment, 

Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation for 
those long entries.

... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other generated 
file.

this is something that I tried long ago, and it never worked for me. As a 
matter of fact these LOT and LOF reference page entries already had three tab 
characters in them. Adding more didn't help.  

Again, the problem arises when the title is just long enough to break the line 
before the chapter-page number without bringing any text to the second line. 
The only solution that appears to work reliably is to put a variable with 
several em spaces as its definition. On some titles, adding non-breaking 
space(s) to bring one or more words to the second line improves readability. 


Jay Mahler
Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 1:01 PM, framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 
framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com wrote:

 RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists


--

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:52:58 +
From: Mary Jo Dockman mdock...@tmghealth.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FrameMaker to Confluence via WebWorks
Message-ID:
dbde693309c1ea47907066c41729e45719474...@exchangembw1.tmghealth.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Has anyone taken FrameMaker source files and used WebWorks ePublisher to import 
the content to a Confluence wiki?   If so, besides the initial set up of 
stationary and page formats, is the process fairly effortless?   If you make 
changes in the source FrameMaker files, and go through WebWorks ePublisher to 
Confluence again, do you need to clean-up the wiki each time?  Currently, I'm 
using FM 11 for the source user guide files and we have Confluence 5.1.2.

I tried to convert the FM files to RTF and then import them to Confluence, but 
there's a lot of clean up and the numbered steps turn into bullets. It's not 
worth the pain.  I also have the Tech Comm Suite 4, so I do have RoboHelp and 
am going to try converting the FM files to a Word printout via RoboHelp and 
then importing the Word document into Confluence.

Just trying to find the cleanest and least painful avenue for getting FM source 
files into Confluence, since we'll be maintaining the source files in FM for 
each release.

Thanks for any help or feedback,
Mary Jo
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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-18 Thread Jay Mahler
I'm not sure what you mean by isn't this just as simple as changing
the paragraph setting of your second and subsequent lines to start at the
point of the end of the leader dot's of the first line?  If I understand what 
you are saying, wouldn't we end up with a long indent on those lines?

On Jerilynne's comment, 

Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.

... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other generated
file.

this is something that I tried long ago, and it never worked for me. As a 
matter of fact these LOT and LOF reference page entries already had three tab 
characters in them. Adding more didn't help.  

Again, the problem arises when the title is just long enough to break the line 
before the chapter-page number without bringing any text to the second line. 
The only solution that appears to work reliably is to put a variable with 
several em spaces as its definition. On some titles, adding non-breaking 
space(s) to bring one or more words to the second line improves readability. 


Jay Mahler
Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 1:01 PM, framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 
framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com wrote:

 RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists
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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-17 Thread Ragnar Hanås
I agree, this manual work of inserting soft returns to the index is very
irritating. 

Your solution didn´t work for me. On the reference page I have

 

$pagenum (the first “” is a tab stop)

I tried

\t$pagenum and \t\t\t$pagenum

But it did not change the index output

 

Still looks like this:

Nhgjgkjgjhgkh ghgjhg …..154, 217
   232

 

And for other entries:

Nhgjgkjgjhgkh ghgjhg …..154, 217
   232 .268, 395

 

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ragnar Hanas

Uddevalla Hospital

Sweden

 

 

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jerilynne Knight
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 9:18 PM
To: Stuart Rogers
Cc: Framer's List
Subject: Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

 

Thanks for correcting that Stuart (was multi-tasking, not wise!)

 

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Stuart Rogers 
mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com
wrote:

On 2013-Jun-03 1:27 PM, Jerilynne Knight wrote:

Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.

 

... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other generated
file.







On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler  mailto:j...@mahler.com
j...@mahler.com wrote:

I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes.
When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the
tab character that should position the page number at right aligned tab
doesn’t work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line
with or without continued text. I’ve always gone through and manually fixed
the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I
have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each.
Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments
haven’t turned up a solution.

 

 

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
 tel:%2B1%20%28416%29%20491-7340%20x%20325 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
 
 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com


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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-17 Thread Craig Ede
Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't this just as simple as changing
the paragraph setting of your second and subsequent lines to start at the
point of the end of the leader dot's of the first line?

 

Also, while this may not work in this case, I often control line breaks in
the generated files by putting non-breaking spaces between words at the end
of the line in headings that don't wrap properly. This causes them to be
brought down to the second line in a controlled fashion. Since the fix is in
the heading itself, it only has to be done once.

 

 

Craig

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Ragnar Hanås
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 2:37 AM
To: 'Jerilynne Knight'; 'Stuart Rogers'
Cc: 'Framer's List'
Subject: RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

 

I agree, this manual work of inserting soft returns to the index is very
irritating. 

Your solution didn´t work for me. On the reference page I have

 

$pagenum (the first “” is a tab stop)

I tried

\t$pagenum and \t\t\t$pagenum

But it did not change the index output

 

Still looks like this:

Nhgjgkjgjhgkh ghgjhg …..154, 217
   232

 

And for other entries:

Nhgjgkjgjhgkh ghgjhg …..154, 217
   232 .268, 395

 

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ragnar Hanas

Uddevalla Hospital

Sweden

 

 

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jerilynne Knight
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 9:18 PM
To: Stuart Rogers
Cc: Framer's List
Subject: Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

 

Thanks for correcting that Stuart (was multi-tasking, not wise!)

 

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Stuart Rogers 
mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com
wrote:

On 2013-Jun-03 1:27 PM, Jerilynne Knight wrote:

Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.

 

... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other generated
file.






On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler  mailto:j...@mahler.com
j...@mahler.com wrote:

I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes.
When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the
tab character that should position the page number at right aligned tab
doesn’t work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line
with or without continued text. I’ve always gone through and manually fixed
the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I
have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each.
Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments
haven’t turned up a solution.

 

 

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
 tel:%2B1%20%28416%29%20491-7340%20x%20325 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
 
 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com


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 http://www.mylivesignature.com/ 


Jerilynne Knight

Sexy backends for your business

 

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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-04 Thread Reng, Dr. Winfried
Hi,

As suggested you need to add an additional tab before the page number
on the reference page. Then the page number in the second line will appear
right justified again.

However, it might happen that the text in the first line extends into the
page number area. Some weeks ago I got a solution to correct this:
In the paragraph designer in the Advanced tab change the
minimum value of the word spacing to something which is higher
than the max value. I use 200 % Minimum and 125 % Maximum.
This way the line breaks before a word extends into the area of the
page numbers.

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jay Mahler
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 5:03 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

I'm sure you've all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes. 
When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the tab 
character that should position the page number at right aligned tab doesn't 
work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line with or 
without continued text. I've always gone through and manually fixed the issue 
by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I have a client 
with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each. Has anyone 
figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments haven't turned 
up a solution.

Also, since I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has asked this question, 
I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can't figure out how to do 
that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search tool 
available somewhere?

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298



This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
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RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-04 Thread Fred Ridder
But note that this approach has an unwanted (and probably unacceptable) side 
effect if your generated list uses leader dots. The problem is that the 
em-spaces produce a really noticeable gap between the end of the title string 
and the start of the leader dots.

The approach that Jerilynne proposed yesterday works well (although only one 
extra tab is needed in the reference page prototype paragraph rather than the 
at least 3 that Jerilynne mentions) and has no nasty side effect. It has 
worked beautifully for me for years.

-Fred Ridder

From: j...@mahler.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:13:10 -0400
Subject: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

After sending my previous email, I found a solution. I simply added a variable 
with three em spaces (\sm\sm\sm) at the end of the long titles. For some 
reason, just adding the em spaces directly on the line didn't work. If anyone 
has a more elegant solution, I'd love to know about it.
Jay Mahler
Sent from my iPad

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Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-03 Thread Lin Sims
Chris Despoupolis's (sp?) TocBreaker might be of use. You'd have to insert
your soft returns once and run TocBreaker to save the information. After
that, you run TocBreaker after regenerating. (http://cudspan.net/) It works
with all generated lists.

You can use Google to search the archives by specifying site:
www.framerusers.org


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com wrote:

 I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even
 indexes. When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index
 entries), the tab character that should position the page number at right
 aligned tab doesn’t work, and the page number appears left justified on the
 second line with or without continued text. I’ve always gone through and
 manually fixed the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are
 generated, but I have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that
 are 20 pages each. Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this
 problem? My experiments haven’t turned up a solution.

 ** **

 Also, since I’m sure this isn’t the first time someone has asked this
 question, I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can’t figure out
 how to do that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search
 tool available somewhere?

 ** **

 Jay Mahler

 734-645-6298

 ** **

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Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-03 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com wrote:

 I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even
 indexes. When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index
 entries), the tab character that should position the page number at right
 aligned tab doesn’t work, and the page number appears left justified on the
 second line with or without continued text. I’ve always gone through and
 manually fixed the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are
 generated, but I have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that
 are 20 pages each. Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this
 problem? My experiments haven’t turned up a solution.

 ** **

 Also, since I’m sure this isn’t the first time someone has asked this
 question, I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can’t figure out
 how to do that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search
 tool available somewhere?

 ** **

 Jay Mahler

 734-645-6298

 ** **

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may your day be igKnighted with passionately powerful possibilities!



http://www.mylivesignature.com/
Jerilynne Knight
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Making strategies, systems, and automation work harder so you don't have to!
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Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-03 Thread Stuart Rogers

On 2013-Jun-03 1:27 PM, Jerilynne Knight wrote:
Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not 
tab stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of 
automation for those long entries.



... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other 
generated file.



On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com 
mailto:j...@mahler.com wrote:


I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and
even indexes. When the title reaches the end of the line (or too
many index entries), the tab character that should position the
page number at right aligned tab doesn’t work, and the page number
appears left justified on the second line with or without
continued text. I’ve always gone through and manually fixed the
issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but
I have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20
pages each. Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this
problem? My experiments haven’t turned up a solution.




--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com

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Re: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

2013-06-03 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Thanks for correcting that Stuart (was multi-tasking, not wise!)


On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Stuart Rogers 
srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com wrote:

  On 2013-Jun-03 1:27 PM, Jerilynne Knight wrote:

  Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not
 tab stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of
 automation for those long entries.


  ... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other
 generated file.



  On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com wrote:

  I’m sure you’ve all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even
 indexes. When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index
 entries), the tab character that should position the page number at right
 aligned tab doesn’t work, and the page number appears left justified on the
 second line with or without continued text. I’ve always gone through and
 manually fixed the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are
 generated, but I have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that
 are 20 pages each. Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this
 problem? My experiments haven’t turned up a solution.


 --
 Stuart Rogers
 Technical Communicator
 Phoenix Geophysics Limited
 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
 Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com


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