Re: Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Hi Peter, Thanks for your detailed and interesting reply! My comment was not focused on a specific FM8 bug, but on the apparent state of affairs where a product is released as is so as not to miss a deadline, but losing out on other fronts in major ways. Some other FM8 bugs/issues are listed at www.microtype.com/FM_bugs.html#FM80 (and several others were reported in different FrameMaker forums). Obviously, I cannot comment on whether the specific format selection bug was reported during beta testing or not. You say that FM 8.0.1 came out pretty soon after 8.0. FM8 was released end of July/beginning of August, and the patch was made available Nov. 22 -- so that's three and a half months at least. Interestingly, the same FM8.0.1 patch was implemented in the Adobe Tech Comm Suite, released one month earlier than the FM8 patch. Regards, Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Hi Peter, Thanks for your detailed and interesting reply! My comment was not focused on a specific FM8 bug, but on the apparent state of affairs where a product is released "as is" so as not to miss a deadline, but losing out on other fronts in major ways. Some other FM8 bugs/issues are listed at www.microtype.com/FM_bugs.html#FM80 (and several others were reported in different FrameMaker forums). Obviously, I cannot comment on whether the specific format selection bug was reported during beta testing or not. You say that "FM 8.0.1 came out pretty soon after 8.0". FM8 was released end of July/beginning of August, and the patch was made available Nov. 22 -- so that's three and a half months at least. Interestingly, the same FM8.0.1 patch was implemented in the Adobe Tech Comm Suite, released one month earlier than the FM8 patch. Regards, Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting & add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Will White wrote: How does such a monstrous bug like a nonfunctionng F0-9 sequences get past QA? Don't any of the developers USE the software? Stupid question. I've worked in a number of software houses and the answer is, sadly, They don't. In the meantime, I won't even think of 'upgrading' to FM8. FrameMaker 8.0 was released according to the schedule Adobe announced well in advance (Adobe has not published the time frame for the next release of FrameMaker... However, our current assumption is that the next major release of FrameMaker will be in the first half of 2007, Adobe Solutions for Tech Comm FAQ, PDF dated July 18, 2006). However, bugs and issues reported by many of the those eager to move to the new version seem to indicate insufficient testing prior to release. Adherence to time tables is certainly important, but in this case, it seems to me that FrameMaker 8.0 -- at least at this stage -- will be associated more with the ongoing problems and user frustration, rather than with the release according to schedule. Was it worth it? I have my doubts... Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
On Dec 12, 2007 2:27 PM, Shlomo Perets [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adherence to time tables is certainly important, but in this case, it seems to me that FrameMaker 8.0 -- at least at this stage -- will be associated more with the ongoing problems and user frustration, rather than with the release according to schedule. Was it worth it? I have my doubts... Shlomo Perets Hi, Shlomo: It's always embarrassing when this kind of relatively minor but supremely annoying bug slips through into a released product. If the bug was reported during beta testing, but wasn't fixed because resources and development time were devoted more to the major improvements in Unicode, XML, and DITA areas, and less to bugs like this, it's a bad choice to have made, because however small they seem, they do interrupt smooth working habits. For example, when a fast typist applies formats by proven keystroke shortcut sequences, and later finds out they have been ignored, retracing one's steps destroys efficiency as well as trust in one's skills and in the product. If the bugs weren't reported, however, it's possible that the beta-test community of users (experienced users invited to participate, not just in-house Adobe developers and testers) didn't use the shortcuts, and didn't see the problem. Beta testers are encouraged to use the product in their normal workflows, so perhaps only a few users use these shortcuts. As a side issue, it would be discouraging to find out that only a small number of users are aware of and use these efficient shortcuts - when they work, they're very helpful. In the larger view, when something in software breaks when other things are added, it's a sign that the overall architecture of the product is hard to maintain. This has always been an issue with adding features to FrameMaker; it's always been difficult to maintain the architecture, so adding new useful features and abilities has always lagged. IMO, the release of the new Technical Communications Suite is a good place to stop holding on to the old architectures of these suite products, and time for Adobe to begin serious development of new and proven engineering that brings the products into the current generation. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Will White wrote:
> How does such a monstrous bug like a nonfunctionng F0-9 sequences get
> past QA? Don't any of the developers USE the software?
> Stupid question. I've worked in a number of software houses and the
> answer is, sadly, "They don't".
> In the meantime, I won't even think of 'upgrading' to FM8.
FrameMaker 8.0 was released according to the schedule Adobe announced well
in advance ("Adobe has not published the time frame for the next release of
FrameMaker... However, our current assumption is that the next major
release of FrameMaker will be in the first half of 2007", Adobe Solutions
for Tech Comm FAQ, PDF dated July 18, 2006).
However, bugs and issues reported by many of the those eager to move to the
new version seem to indicate insufficient testing prior to release.
Adherence to time tables is certainly important, but in this case, it seems
to me that FrameMaker 8.0 -- at least at this stage -- will be associated
more with the ongoing problems and user frustration, rather than with the
release according to schedule. Was it worth it? I have my doubts...
Shlomo Perets
MicroType, http://www.microtype.com
Training, consulting & add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
On Dec 12, 2007 2:27 PM, Shlomo Perets wrote: > Adherence to time tables is certainly important, but in this case, it seems > to me that FrameMaker 8.0 -- at least at this stage -- will be associated > more with the ongoing problems and user frustration, rather than with the > release according to schedule. Was it worth it? I have my doubts... > > > Shlomo Perets Hi, Shlomo: It's always embarrassing when this kind of relatively minor but supremely annoying bug slips through into a released product. If the bug was reported during beta testing, but wasn't fixed because resources and development time were devoted more to the major improvements in Unicode, XML, and DITA areas, and less to bugs like this, it's a bad choice to have made, because however small they seem, they do interrupt smooth working habits. For example, when a fast typist applies formats by proven keystroke shortcut sequences, and later finds out they have been ignored, retracing one's steps destroys efficiency as well as trust in one's skills and in the product. If the bugs weren't reported, however, it's possible that the beta-test community of users (experienced users invited to participate, not just in-house Adobe developers and testers) didn't use the shortcuts, and didn't see the problem. Beta testers are encouraged to use the product in their normal workflows, so perhaps only a few users use these shortcuts. As a side issue, it would be discouraging to find out that only a small number of users are aware of and use these efficient shortcuts - when they work, they're very helpful. In the larger view, when something in software breaks when other things are added, it's a sign that the overall architecture of the product is hard to maintain. This has always been an issue with adding features to FrameMaker; it's always been difficult to maintain the architecture, so adding new useful features and abilities has always lagged. IMO, the release of the new Technical Communications Suite is a good place to stop holding on to the old architectures of these suite products, and time for Adobe to begin serious development of new and proven engineering that brings the products into the current generation. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
The FrameMaker 8 keyboard shortcut issue is particularly frustrating. It's not just F9; it's all of the ctrl/F[0-9] shortcuts (element operations, conditional text, variables, character and paragraph formats). Using these shortcuts can dramatically improve a writer's productivity using FrameMaker, and minimize reliance on the mouse. In FM8, the shortcuts time out, at an apparently random interval. Often the shortcut time-out is almost immediate. These keyboard shortcuts are nearly unusable in FM8. I would also be interested in hearing whether anybody does _not_ experience this problem with FrameMaker 8, or if there is a work-around. -Alan Diane Gaskill wrote: Hi Greg, Yes, it was free. :-) But they did not fix everything. I still have problems with my F9 key when trying to use keyboard shortcuts. the tag list does not stay in the field as it should. This is real problem because I rely on the shortcuts for all kinds of things. Not being able to use th F9 key is a real productivity slowdown. Does anyone know of a workaround that will make the F9 key behave? Thanks, Diane -- Alan Houser, President Group Wellesley, Inc. 412-363-3481 www.groupwellesley.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Hello All - How does such a monstrous bug like a nonfunctionng F0-9 sequences get past QA? Don't any of the developers USE the software? Stupid question. I've worked in a number of software houses and the answer is, sadly, They don't. In the meantime, I won't even think of 'upgrading' to FM8. Will White On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Alan Houser wrote: The FrameMaker 8 keyboard shortcut issue is particularly frustrating. It's not just F9; it's all of the ctrl/F[0-9] shortcuts (element operations, conditional text, variables, character and paragraph formats). Using these shortcuts can dramatically improve a writer's productivity using FrameMaker, and minimize reliance on the mouse. In FM8, the shortcuts time out, at an apparently random interval. Often the shortcut time-out is almost immediate. These keyboard shortcuts are nearly unusable in FM8. I would also be interested in hearing whether anybody does _not_ experience this problem with FrameMaker 8, or if there is a work- around. -Alan Diane Gaskill wrote: Hi Greg, Yes, it was free. :-) But they did not fix everything. I still have problems with my F9 key when trying to use keyboard shortcuts. the tag list does not stay in the field as it should. This is real problem because I rely on the shortcuts for all kinds of things. Not being able to use th F9 key is a real productivity slowdown. Does anyone know of a workaround that will make the F9 key behave? Thanks, Diane -- Alan Houser, President Group Wellesley, Inc. 412-363-3481 www.groupwellesley.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ whitefamily%40mac.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. +++ There's the right way and the wrong way. Then there's my way - which is like the wrong way, but faster. +++ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Well, to make F8 and F9 work you have to keep the Character Designer resp. Paragraph Designer closed -- that is what you would recommend to authors, don't you? With FM8.0p266 I found Ctrl+1 and Ctrl+2 to be working as expected, but to be able to use Ctrl+3 (Change Element) you need to have the Element window closed. Ctrl+4/5/6 are used to apply some/remove some/remove all conditions from a text, and they seem to be not affected, maybe because there is no non-modal associated window available. At least there are work-arounds... - Michael Am 02.12.2007 um 17:20 schrieb Alan Houser: The FrameMaker 8 keyboard shortcut issue is particularly frustrating. It's not just F9; it's all of the ctrl/F[0-9] shortcuts (element operations, conditional text, variables, character and paragraph formats). Using these shortcuts can dramatically improve a writer's productivity using FrameMaker, and minimize reliance on the mouse. In FM8, the shortcuts time out, at an apparently random interval. Often the shortcut time-out is almost immediate. These keyboard shortcuts are nearly unusable in FM8. I would also be interested in hearing whether anybody does _not_ experience this problem with FrameMaker 8, or if there is a work- around. -Alan Diane Gaskill wrote: Hi Greg, Yes, it was free. :-) But they did not fix everything. I still have problems with my F9 key when trying to use keyboard shortcuts. the tag list does not stay in the field as it should. This is real problem because I rely on the shortcuts for all kinds of things. Not being able to use th F9 key is a real productivity slowdown. -- Michael Müller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker InfoBlog: http://cap-studio.de/ Tipp: http://cap-studio.de/wp/index.php/2007/11/rss-feed-ie7/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Hello All - How does such a monstrous bug like a nonfunctionng F0-9 sequences get past QA? Don't any of the developers USE the software? Stupid question. I've worked in a number of software houses and the answer is, sadly, "They don't". In the meantime, I won't even think of 'upgrading' to FM8. Will White On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Alan Houser wrote: > The FrameMaker 8 keyboard shortcut issue is particularly frustrating. > It's not just F9; it's all of the ctrl/F[0-9] shortcuts (element > operations, conditional text, variables, character and paragraph > formats). Using these shortcuts can dramatically improve a writer's > productivity using FrameMaker, and minimize reliance on the mouse. > > In FM8, the shortcuts "time out", at an apparently random interval. > Often the shortcut time-out is almost immediate. These keyboard > shortcuts are nearly unusable in FM8. > > I would also be interested in hearing whether anybody does _not_ > experience this problem with FrameMaker 8, or if there is a work- > around. > > -Alan > > Diane Gaskill wrote: >> Hi Greg, >> >> Yes, it was free. :-) But they did not fix everything. I still have >> problems with my F9 key when trying to use keyboard shortcuts. >> the tag list >> does not stay in the field as it should. This is real problem >> because I >> rely on the shortcuts for all kinds of things. Not being able to >> use th F9 >> key is a real productivity slowdown. >> >> Does anyone know of a workaround that will make the F9 key behave? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Diane > -- > Alan Houser, President > Group Wellesley, Inc. > 412-363-3481 > www.groupwellesley.com > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as whitefamily at mac.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ > whitefamily%40mac.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. +++ There's the right way and the wrong way. Then there's my way - which is like the wrong way, but faster. +++
Keyboard shortcuts in FM8 (was Re: 8.0.1 patch fixes FM Book to PDF issue)
Well, to make F8 and F9 work you have to keep the Character Designer resp. Paragraph Designer closed -- that is what you would recommend to authors, don't you? With FM8.0p266 I found Ctrl+1 and Ctrl+2 to be working as expected, but to be able to use Ctrl+3 (Change Element) you need to have the Element window closed. Ctrl+4/5/6 are used to apply some/remove some/remove all conditions from a text, and they seem to be not affected, maybe because there is no non-modal associated window available. At least there are work-arounds... - Michael Am 02.12.2007 um 17:20 schrieb Alan Houser: > The FrameMaker 8 keyboard shortcut issue is particularly frustrating. > It's not just F9; it's all of the ctrl/F[0-9] shortcuts (element > operations, conditional text, variables, character and paragraph > formats). Using these shortcuts can dramatically improve a writer's > productivity using FrameMaker, and minimize reliance on the mouse. > > In FM8, the shortcuts "time out", at an apparently random interval. > Often the shortcut time-out is almost immediate. These keyboard > shortcuts are nearly unusable in FM8. > > I would also be interested in hearing whether anybody does _not_ > experience this problem with FrameMaker 8, or if there is a work- > around. > > -Alan > > Diane Gaskill wrote: >> Hi Greg, >> >> Yes, it was free. :-) But they did not fix everything. I still have >> problems with my F9 key when trying to use keyboard shortcuts. >> the tag list >> does not stay in the field as it should. This is real problem >> because I >> rely on the shortcuts for all kinds of things. Not being able to >> use th F9 >> key is a real productivity slowdown. >> -- Michael M?ller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker Info: http://cap-studio.de/ Tipp: http://cap-studio.de/wp/index.php/2007/11/rss-feed-ie7/
