Pantone bug?
Hi Brad At 22:44 -0500 27/7/07, Brad Anderson wrote: >We've printed several 5-color books (CMYK and 1 spot) with several different >vendors in the US, China, and Hong Kong. ... Many thanks for this clarification. I think we were iterating towards this conclusion, but it's good to have confirmation. Actually, I ran up against this issues with a previous book, but in that case the difference between the FrameMaker version of the spot color and its real color was less great. >You can set black to be a spot color as well in Frame so that the black will >be a 100% spot black and not an accidentally "rich black" which would give you >possible CMK values. That's the fix I was trying to remember ;-) As a footnote, there are some new tools in Acrobat 8 for fixing up plates at pre-press, something to do with color aliasing, but I only looked at the demo and it's now expired. I guess they could provide a backstop if all else failed, such as for example a mix of a Pantone CVU and a Pantone U of the same shade in a PDF. -- Steve
SV: Pantone bug?
Steve Rickaby wrote: > > I have been asked to use Pantone 164 for a design. There > appears to be > > an oddity with FrameMaker's Pantone libraries, which give Pantone > > 164CVU, for example, as C:0 M:47 Y:76 K:0, which is a > browny-orange, > > instead of the correct purple tint, C:50 M:100 Y:0 K:0, as in, for > > example, Illustrator. Kenneth C. Benson answered: > I'm confused. What does it matter what the CMYK conversion > is? PMS 164 > is a printer's ink mix and there's nothing you can do on your > computer > to change that mix. As long as you use spot colours as separation plates their alternate composition doesn't matter. In that case only the tint value is interesting. However, if you run a PDF workflow with composite colours it's quite nice to: (1) view the colour correctly even though it represents only a separation plate. This is especially nice in case you need to repurpose the PDF, e.g. in downsampled form for internet viewing, (2) when the colour need conversion to it's alternate colour space, e.g. when you print CMYK only. Framemaker on MacIntosh can produce composite PDF's with spot colour information preserved, but Framemaker on Windows can NOT do that. Anyone running Framemaker on Windows might be interested in my article "Difficult PDF documents in prepress" found at http://www.grafikhuset.net/international/technology/whitepapers_pdfstuff_workingwithpdf.htm, which -- besides advertising our Publi PDF software -- explain this Framemaker on Windows problem. Hope this helps. All the best Jacob Sch?ffer Grafikhuset Denmark
Re: Pantone bug?
Steve Rickaby wrote: Quite. However, if you change the spec in FrameMaker to 'correct' the mix, it drops the ink name and you get 4-plate in the PDF [quite It doesn't here. I just made a new color from the Pantone Uncoated library, typed in 164, and got a nice red PANTONE 164 CVU. I chose Print as Spot and changed the CMYK color definition to make 50,100,0,0 purple. Then I formatted some text in PANTONE 164 CVU and printed the page to seps. I chose to print the 164 plate only, and the text printed black. Then I went back and printed composite, and the text printed purple. I'm on Windows here, so maybe it's different on Mac. Are you sure you're choosing Print as Spot? AFAIK, you can change the definition of a spot color without making it print process. Kenneth Benson Pegasus Type, Inc. www.pegtype.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Pantone bug?
FrameMaker 7.0, Mac I have been asked to use Pantone 164 for a design. There appears to be an oddity with FrameMaker's Pantone libraries, which give Pantone 164CVU, for example, as C:0 M:47 Y:76 K:0, which is a browny-orange, instead of the correct purple tint, C:50 M:100 Y:0 K:0, as in, for example, Illustrator. My questions: am I imagining this, and if not what's the best workaround? I can of course set the 'correct' CMYK values in FrameMaker, but that breaks the association with the ink color spec and probably messes up the plate count in the pre-press PDF. -- Steve
Pantone bug?
Steve Rickaby wrote: > I have been asked to use Pantone 164 for a design. There appears to > be an oddity with FrameMaker's Pantone libraries, which give Pantone > 164CVU, for example, as C:0 M:47 Y:76 K:0, which is a browny-orange, > instead of the correct purple tint, C:50 M:100 Y:0 K:0, as in, for > example, Illustrator. I'm confused. What does it matter what the CMYK conversion is? PMS 164 is a printer's ink mix and there's nothing you can do on your computer to change that mix. If you're going to print a spot color, then you need a spot color plate. It's nice if that plate has the right name on it, but it's not even necessary. You can make a color and call it "Steve's Purple" and then tell the printer to use PMS 164 for Steve's Purple. If you're going to print process color, then use the CMYK mix that you like, and forget about PMS 164. Or am I missing something? Are you printing 5-color? Kenneth Benson Pegasus Type, Inc. www.pegtype.com
Pantone bug?
Steve Rickaby wrote: > Quite. However, if you change the spec in FrameMaker to 'correct' the > mix, it drops the ink name and you get 4-plate in the PDF [quite It doesn't here. I just made a new color from the Pantone Uncoated library, typed in 164, and got a nice red PANTONE 164 CVU. I chose Print as Spot and changed the CMYK color definition to make 50,100,0,0 purple. Then I formatted some text in PANTONE 164 CVU and printed the page to seps. I chose to print the 164 plate only, and the text printed black. Then I went back and printed composite, and the text printed purple. I'm on Windows here, so maybe it's different on Mac. Are you sure you're choosing "Print as Spot"? AFAIK, you can change the definition of a spot color without making it print process. Kenneth Benson Pegasus Type, Inc. www.pegtype.com
Pantone bug?
At 12:58 -0400 27/7/07, Kenneth C. Benson wrote: >It doesn't here. I just made a new color from the Pantone Uncoated library, >typed in 164, and got a nice red PANTONE 164 CVU. I chose Print as Spot and >changed the CMYK color definition to make 50,100,0,0 purple. Then I formatted >some text in PANTONE 164 CVU and printed the page to seps. I chose to print >the 164 plate only, and the text printed black. Then I went back and printed >composite, and the text printed purple. OK, here's what I do, starting with a blank document: . Bring up View -> Color Definitions... . Select Pantone Uncoated library . Select Pantone 164 CVU . I now see Ink name: Pantone 164 CVU, Print as spot, and M:47, Y:76 . Edit the color to C:50, M:100, rest 0 . I now see Ink name: None, print as spot I.e. FrameMaker has, quite properly, dropped the ink name, because I've change its spec. . Format a body para with the synthetic 'Pantone', print to Ps, distill . Preflight: plates = 5, C M Y K, Pantone 164. However, the PDF *does* seem to specify the Pantone plate correctly, so maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily. The presence of the C M and Y plates in a PDF with one word in Pantone is something I've hit before, but I can't for the moment remeber the fix. >I'm on Windows here, so maybe it's different on Mac. Are you sure you're >choosing "Print as Spot"? Yup. -- Steve
Pantone bug?
Steve Rickaby wrote: > . Edit the color to C:50, M:100, rest 0 > > . I now see Ink name: None, print as spot Although your ink name changes when you edit the definition (it doesn't change here), you can call it whatever you want, I think. Try copying the name before you edit the definition, and then paste the name back over "None" after you edit the definition. > I.e. FrameMaker has, quite properly, dropped the ink name I disagree that this is proper. Changing the definition of a spot color is easily and commonly done in other programs. > . Format a body para with the synthetic 'Pantone', print to Ps, distill I thought the synthetic spot color was called "None". Did you rename it "Pantone"? > . Preflight: plates = 5, C M Y K, Pantone 164. Are your CMY plates blank? Kenneth Benson Pegasus Type, Inc. www.pegtype.com
Pantone bug?
At 13:42 -0400 27/7/07, Kenneth C. Benson wrote: > >>. Edit the color to C:50, M:100, rest 0 >> >>. I now see Ink name: None, print as spot > >Although your ink name changes when you edit the definition (it doesn't change >here), you can call it whatever you want, I think. Try copying the name before >you edit the definition, and then paste the name back over "None" after you >edit the definition. No, not possible: although the 'Name' field - i.e. the name by which the color is known to FrameMaker - can be edited, the 'Ink Name; field is not editable. At least, it isn't FrameMaker 7.0 for Mac. To recap, the color definition dialog here has four fields above the CMYK sliders: Name [editable] Ink Name [not editable] Print As [choice of Tint, Spot, Process, Don't print] Model [choice of CMYK, RGB, HLS] >>I.e. FrameMaker has, quite properly, dropped the ink name > >I disagree that this is proper. Changing the definition of a spot color is >easily and commonly done in other programs. Ok. But what I'm saying is that you can call it anything you like in the Name field, but if you change the CMYK makeup, the [non-editable] 'Ink Name' field goes from 'Pantone 164CVU' to 'None'. However, this does not seem to matter - see below. >>. Format a body para with the synthetic 'Pantone', print to Ps, distill > >I thought the synthetic spot color was called "None". Did you rename it >"Pantone"? No, it's *named* Pantone 164CVU, but it's ink name is 'None'. >>. Preflight: plates = 5, C M Y K, Pantone 164. > >Are your CMY plates blank? Seem to be, yes. I have a PDF with one word in Pantone, and its showing 100% spot - as it should. The presence of process black as opposed to spot black is another issue, and one that's been aired here before. It's not related to this discussion. The bottom line would seem to be that although FrameMaker appears to be dropping the ink name when a Pantone is dickered with in the color definitions, it is still outputting the correct plate definition. Which is all to the good. -- Steve
