Re: jpg images
On Apr 26, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: This is still a subject for discussion? TIF = JPG = not for screen captures period I am sure you were using shorthand here, but for clarification to others, TIF is *not equal* to JPG, not for anything! Though you may not see JPG artifacts at 100%, they're there, and I'd never use them if the highest image quality is a concern, and the original uncompressed file is available. -Matt ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
Unfortunately, GIF only uses 256 colors in any given image (selected from a larger palette though). So, _not_ what I would use for high-quality photographs, but it _could_ be used for screen captures as long as there aren't too many colors in that screen. I have tested JPEG output for screen captures and they are _not_ acceptable [to me] for this use purpose. Solid color (e.g., white) backgrounds, text, sharp color transitions, etc., will get speckled dots and edge smearing as well. Often, white backgrounds end up with light-gray coloring and these show visibly in documents with white paper backgrounds - you can see ink-jet printers trying to reproduce this light color in the output. Indeed, my new Canon ink-jet at home (which has a grey ink cartridge - cool!) would faithfully try to reproduce this, I think. It is far better to use TIF (large files though) or PNG for screen captures. With true white backgrounds, on white paper documents, the result is very clean. In most of my screen captures, the PNG format has worked well - particularly when I need transparent backgrounds (which GIF does not support) which I can edit in Photoshop. JPEGs should _only_ be used for photographs. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:43 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: jpg images JPEG with the highest quality setting is fine for most screen shots, though I usually see smaller files from PNG or GIF. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Matt Sullivan m...@mattrsullivan.com wrote: All versions of structured Frame support JPEG files. JPEG is a lossy bitmap format, so photos represent well, but diagrams and screen shots will likely disappoint you. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
At 06:04 p.m. 26/04/2013, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: transparent backgrounds (which GIF does not support) FWIW, GIF does support transparent backgrounds. I prefer it over png for web-based, non-photo graphics. I prefer tiff for any ink/paper job. Helen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
transparent backgrounds (which GIF does not support) FWIW, GIF does support transparent backgrounds. I prefer it over png for web-based, non-photo graphics. I prefer tiff for any ink/paper job. Hmmm ... I could have sworn that GIF did not support transparent backgrounds - I will see if I can find out what specific experience I had that made me think this was the case. Anyway, I have been using PNG for screen captures with excellent output for some time now, so will continue with that. Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
This is still a subject for discussion? TIF = JPG = not for screen captures period GIF OK but limited to 256 colors PNG is the way to go. http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/imaging/image-saving.htm http://www.sitepoint.com/gif-jpg-png-whats-difference/ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2336522/png-vs-gif-vs-jpeg-when-best-to-use http://www.sitepoint.com/gif-png-jpg-which-one-to-use/ etc On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: Unfortunately, GIF only uses 256 colors in any given image (selected from a larger palette though). So, _not_ what I would use for high-quality photographs, but it _could_ be used for screen captures as long as there aren't too many colors in that screen. I have tested JPEG output for screen captures and they are _not_ acceptable [to me] for this use purpose. Solid color (e.g., white) backgrounds, text, sharp color transitions, etc., will get speckled dots and edge smearing as well. Often, white backgrounds end up with light-gray coloring and these show visibly in documents with white paper backgrounds - you can see ink-jet printers trying to reproduce this light color in the output. Indeed, my new Canon ink-jet at home (which has a grey ink cartridge - cool!) would faithfully try to reproduce this, I think. It is far better to use TIF (large files though) or PNG for screen captures. With true white backgrounds, on white paper documents, the result is very clean. In most of my screen captures, the PNG format has worked well - particularly when I need transparent backgrounds (which GIF does not support) which I can edit in Photoshop. JPEGs should _only_ be used for photographs. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:43 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: jpg images JPEG with the highest quality setting is fine for most screen shots, though I usually see smaller files from PNG or GIF. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Matt Sullivan m...@mattrsullivan.com wrote: All versions of structured Frame support JPEG files. JPEG is a lossy bitmap format, so photos represent well, but diagrams and screen shots will likely disappoint you. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
GIF is great for screen shots that don't include gradients or photos. These days I use PNG but with PhotoShop at the highest quality setting I do not see artifacts in images saved as JPEG. Some other tools don't do as good a job. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: Unfortunately, GIF only uses 256 colors in any given image (selected from a larger palette though). So, _not_ what I would use for high-quality photographs, but it _could_ be used for screen captures as long as there aren't too many colors in that screen. I have tested JPEG output for screen captures and they are _not_ acceptable [to me] for this use purpose. Solid color (e.g., white) backgrounds, text, sharp color transitions, etc., will get speckled dots and edge smearing as well. Often, white backgrounds end up with light-gray coloring and these show visibly in documents with white paper backgrounds ... ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
All versions of structured Frame support JPEG files.JPEG is a lossy bitmap format, so photos represent well, but diagrams and screen shots will likely disappoint you. -MattMatt R. Sullivanco-authorPublishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11P:714.798.7596 |C:714.585.2335 |m...@mattrsullivan.com@mattrsullivanLinkedInfacebookmattrsullivan.com On Apr 25, 2013, at 8:00 AM, "Richard Doll" sgmli...@tds.net wrote:all,¿what version(s) of Framemaker (structured) supports and processes jpeg format images?and¿what is the impact of their use in ink-on-paper (high quality 300dpi) printing?best to all,dick doll317.539.4857sgmli...@tds.net ___You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
Hi Dick, Any modern version of FrameMaker should support jpegs; at least 7.2 and higher. jpegs are suitable for printing photographs but are less than ideal for line art, text, etc. Also, the jpeg format supports compression, so your quality may depend on any compression settings that may have been applied to the images. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thank you very much. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-283-5045 r...@frameexpert.com -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Richard Doll Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:00 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: jpg images all, ¿what version(s) of Framemaker (structured) supports and processes jpeg format images? and ¿what is the impact of their use in ink-on-paper (high quality 300dpi) printing? best to all, dick doll 317.539.4857 sgmli...@tds.net ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as r...@rickquatro.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rick%40rickquatro.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
As you have already seen the other messages, this is just an endorsement to *avoid* JPEG for anything that contain pixels that are next to each other and have sharp color transitions ... as happens with lines and drawings and text, etc. No matter what quality you save the JPG with such content, the results will not be great. Basically, the transitions from one color to another at the edge of such objects get speckled dots - sometimes more than a few pixels far from the color transition - and also additional transition color pixels on both sides of the color change locations. These extra dots then show up in the printed output (if it is a high-quality ink-jet or any color laser) and, depending on the colors, can be pretty obviosu. The text and lines get smeared - the sharp transition between the text color and the background color gets softened. In the worst case, narrow lines disappear or get broken up pretty badly. Bottom line: JPEG's are fine for pictures, but even there, using a high-quality JPEG (from a non-lossy source image ideally) is important - repetitively editing and saving the JPEG from image editor programs can increase the noise in the JPEG over time. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Richard Doll Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:00 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: jpg images all, ¿what version(s) of Framemaker (structured) supports and processes jpeg format images? and ¿what is the impact of their use in ink-on-paper (high quality 300dpi) printing? best to all, dick doll 317.539.4857 sgmli...@tds.net ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
And there you have it…all the reasons I hosted jpegisbad.com for a few years as a joke! -MattMatt R. Sullivanco-authorPublishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11P:714.798.7596 |C:714.585.2335 |m...@mattrsullivan.com@mattrsullivanLinkedInfacebookmattrsullivan.com On Apr 25, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)" syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote:As you have already seen the other messages, this is just an endorsement to *avoid* JPEG for anything that contain pixels that are next to each other and have sharp color transitions ... as happens with lines and drawings and text, etc.No matter what "quality" you save the JPG with such content, the results will not be great. Basically, the transitions from one color to another at the edge of such objects get speckled dots - sometimes more than a few pixels far from the color transition - and also additional "transition color" pixels on both sides of the color change locations.These extra dots then show up in the printed output (if it is a high-quality ink-jet or any color laser) and, depending on the colors, can be pretty obviosu. The text and lines get smeared - the sharp transition between the text color and the background color gets softened. In the worst case, narrow lines disappear or get broken up pretty badly.Bottom line: JPEG's are fine for pictures, but even there, using a high-quality JPEG (from a non-lossy source image ideally) is important - repetitively editing and saving the JPEG from image editor programs can increase the "noise" in the JPEG over time.Z-Original Message-From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Richard DollSent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:00 AMTo: framers@lists.frameusers.comSubject: jpg imagesall,¿what version(s) of Framemaker (structured) supports and processes jpeg format images?and¿what is the impact of their use in ink-on-paper (high quality 300dpi) printing?best to all,dick doll317.539.4857sgmli...@tds.net ___You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
On 2013-Apr-25 12:06 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: Bottom line: JPEG's are fine for pictures... To be more explicit, JPEG's are fine for PHOTOGRAPHS. To provide a helpful mnemonic, the JPEG file format (abbreviated to JPG in earlier Microsoft OS) was developed by the Joint PHOTOGRAPHIC Experts Group (JPEG !!) for the specific purpose of defining a digital format optimized for still images of PHOTOGRAPHIC quality. [emphasis added] Trix are for kids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trix_%28cereal%29#Marketing_and_advertising. JPEG is for photographs http://www.jpeg.org/jpeg/index.html :-) best, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3 Toronto, ON, Canada M1W 3K5 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
Correction totally agreed with, of course!! :) Z From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Rogers Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:34 AM Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: jpg images On 2013-Apr-25 12:06 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.netmailto:syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: Bottom line: JPEG's are fine for pictures... To be more explicit, JPEG's are fine for PHOTOGRAPHS. To provide a helpful mnemonic, the JPEG file format (abbreviated to JPG in earlier Microsoft OS) was developed by the Joint PHOTOGRAPHIC Experts Group (JPEG !!) for the specific purpose of defining a digital format optimized for still images of PHOTOGRAPHIC quality. [emphasis added] Trix are for kidshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trix_%28cereal%29#Marketing_and_advertising. JPEG is for photographshttp://www.jpeg.org/jpeg/index.html :-) best, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3 Toronto, ON, Canada M1W 3K5 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
Didn't actually mean it as a correction, more a wholehearted agreement with added emphasis. (LOTS of it ;-) We are def. on the same page. Stuart On 2013-Apr-25 2:57 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: Correction totally agreed with, of course!! :) Z *From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Stuart Rogers *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:34 AM *Cc:* framers@lists.frameusers.com *Subject:* Re: jpg images On 2013-Apr-25 12:06 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net mailto:syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote: Bottom line: JPEG's are fine for pictures... To be more explicit, JPEG's are fine for PHOTOGRAPHS. To provide a helpful mnemonic, the JPEG file format (abbreviated to JPG in earlier Microsoft OS) was developed by the Joint PHOTOGRAPHIC Experts Group (JPEG !!) for the specific purpose of defining a digital format optimized for still images of PHOTOGRAPHIC quality. [emphasis added] Trix are for kids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trix_%28cereal%29#Marketing_and_advertising. JPEG is for photographs http://www.jpeg.org/jpeg/index.html :-) best, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3 Toronto, ON, Canada M1W 3K5 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3 Toronto, ON, Canada M1W 3K5 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: jpg images
JPEG with the highest quality setting is fine for most screen shots, though I usually see smaller files from PNG or GIF. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Matt Sullivan m...@mattrsullivan.com wrote: All versions of structured Frame support JPEG files. JPEG is a lossy bitmap format, so photos represent well, but diagrams and screen shots will likely disappoint you. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: jpg images
Robert Lauriston wrote: JPEG with the highest quality setting is fine for most screen shots, though I usually see smaller files from PNG or GIF. And a butter knife works fine as a screwdriver if the blade fits the slot well. But it's not what you should use if a screwdriver is available. :-) Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-903-6372 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
