RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
I frequently hit this problem, but my solution is to define a custom paper size of 8.25 x 11 inches. This will print on both paper sizes without problems and means you don't have the problems of making things fit. Peter From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:57 PM To: Post Framers Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise-- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
2013-02-21-04T17:00Z Lisa - I agree with Nadine's first recommendation, which is what we have done here. Preparing for this process emphasizes that less is [or fewer are] more. Wield Ockham's Razor judiciously, of not ruthlessly. For _full_ benefit, I highly recommend that you expend the resources necessary to attend Shlomo Perets' course on advanced techniques for FrameMaker templates. See http://www.microtype.com/default.html. Good luck and regards, Dave Stamm Information Engineer General Dynamics C4 Systems, Inc. Integrated Log Engr Svc, Logistics Section 1700 Magnavox Way, Suite 200 We'll hit your targets from here.(tm) Fort Wayne, Indiana 46804-1552; US tel: 260-434-9620 fax: 260.434.9501 / 9509 dave.st...@gdc4s.com http://www.gdc4s.com/ This message and / or attachments may include information subject to GDC4S S.P. 1.8.6 and GD Corporate Policy 07-105 and are intended to be accessed only by authorized recipients. Use, storage and transmission are governed by General Dynamics and its policies. Contractual restrictions apply to third parties. Recipients should refer to the policies or contract to determine proper handling. Unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the original message. From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: 2013-02-21-Thursday 10:57 To: Post Framers Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
2013-02-21-04T17:20Z Regarding my earlier response to Lise's posting. I expressed only my own professional opinions and not those of my employer. I have no interest in MicroType other than being a satisfied customer. Regards, Dave Stamm From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: 2013-02-21-Thursday 10:57 To: Post Framers Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Here's a what if scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine - I'll keep that in mind for my Service Manual)... What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size fudge for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.commailto:rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.camailto:generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.commailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Assuming that copy is not to change, I would be inclined to link text to the two templates (import by reference) rather than import it by copying. That is, a third file that contains formatted text, plus the A4 and Letter templates. Any copy changes are made to the linked text and reflected in both templates. Of course, you will have variations in text placement and awkward breaks. So, YMWV. If you are talking about spelling variationstoo, then to keep myself sane I would insist on completely separate versions and date+document any changes made for consistency. Alan On 22/02/13 7:11 AM, Alison Craig wrote: Here’s a “what if” scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine – I’ll keep that in mind for my Service Manual)… What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size “fudge” for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison *From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Writer *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM *To:* Lise Bible; Post Framers *Subject:* Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine *From:*Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com mailto:rentagoodb...@gmail.com *To:* Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM *Subject:* switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- *Save the earth.* It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com mailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Hi Alison, The European equivalent to Tabloid is A3 (297x420mm) which is 18mm wider and 12mm shorter than the 11x17 Tabloid. Hope this is of some help. Bodvar Bjorgvinsson On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote: Here’s a “what if” scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine – I’ll keep that in mind for my Service Manual)… What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size “fudge” for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as bod...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bodvar%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? The only thing I can think of is conditional text. But you can include your condition settings in the template. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
The nearest ISO (Note: International Standards organisation - not just European) size is A3, which just happens to be twice the area of A4. That's approx. 11.5 x 16.5 inches (exactly 297 x 420 mm). If I had to deal with that and your quaint tabloid size I'd set up a custom size of 11 x 16.5. I agree that Nadine's suggestion of two templates is probably best if you have time to work through each document every time you change to check that there aren't any unfortunate page breaks. Sensible use of keep with next instead of hard top of page settings can help of course. Peter From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 6:11 PM To: Writer; Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Here's a what if scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine - I'll keep that in mind for my Service Manual). What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size fudge for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine _ From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
I already use a fair amount of Conditional text as my Service manuals cover 3 platforms. I'd have to think carefully about adding another. Alison -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:34 AM To: Alison Craig; Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? The only thing I can think of is conditional text. But you can include your condition settings in the template. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Alison Craig wrote: Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size fudge for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? European A3 is the closest to US Tabloid. As I recall, it is slightly wider (just under two centimeters) and slightly shorter (just over one centimeter). Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
I always have to check page breaks (or reasonable text flow might be the better description) as I create 3 different PDFs off the conditional source files - and I only have Chapter and Appendix headings set to top of page, so that isn't a problem. I know printed copies from PDFs are almost quaint these days - but hard copy is Regulatory fact of life in the Medical Device industry. Alison From: Peter Hirons [mailto:pe...@galley.ie] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:34 AM To: Alison Craig; 'Writer'; 'Lise Bible'; 'Post Framers' Subject: RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? The nearest ISO (Note: International Standards organisation - not just European) size is A3, which just happens to be twice the area of A4. That's approx. 11.5 x 16.5 inches (exactly 297 x 420 mm). If I had to deal with that and your quaint tabloid size I'd set up a custom size of 11 x 16.5. I agree that Nadine's suggestion of two templates is probably best if you have time to work through each document every time you change to check that there aren't any unfortunate page breaks. Sensible use of keep with next instead of hard top of page settings can help of course. Peter From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 6:11 PM To: Writer; Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Here's a what if scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine - I'll keep that in mind for my Service Manual)... What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size fudge for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.commailto:rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.camailto:generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.commailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
I agree that Nadine’s suggestion of two templates is probably best if you have time to work through each document every time you change to check that there aren’t any unfortunate page breaks. Sensible use of “keep with next” instead of hard “top of page” settings can help of course. Yes, definitely. Something else you can try, but this will really depend how your document is formatted, is print the PDF at A4 size. Then, using Acrobat, reprint the A4 PDF as 8.5 x 11. The fonts might look a bit small, but I used to do that and no one complained...to me. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
I know printed copies from PDFs are almost quaint these days snip Call me a Luddite, but I don't agree. This article is a bit old, but I think it still holds true: http://www.booklistonline.com/The-Manley-Arts-The-Cockroach-Will-Manley/pid=5390998 Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
On 21/02/2013 10:57 AM, Lise Bible wrote: I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? This question and the ensuing discussion reminded me of a recommendation made back in 1999 by Dan Emory in his fine article, FrameMaker Template Design and Enforcement. The method could be adapted for your US/A4 situation: Margins for hardcopy printing waste valuable screen real estate when documents are viewed on-line. If a printed 81/2 x 11 document has 1-inch margins all the way around, 37% of the document window is occupied by white-space margins. The template for this paper specifies left/right margins of 0.25”, and top/ bottom margins of 0.131” (i.e., from the top page edge to the top of the running header text frame, and from the bottom of the running footer text frame to the bottom page edge). Consequently, the portion of the document window containing white-space margins is reduced from 37% to 8%, permitting a higher zoom setting in the document window while still being able to view the entire width of the document. Also, the font size for ordinary body text is set to 12 points rather than the normal size of 10 points. The larger font size and a higher zoom setting makes it much easier for authors and editors to read, edit, and manipulate text and document objects without having to zoom in to a setting that prevents the entire width of the page from being displayed. This also makes more screen real estate available outside the document window for dialog boxes and palettes. In effect, this approach creates what was called “oversized repro copy” in that ancient era before WYSIWYG DTPs, scalable fonts, and high-resolution laser printers. To produce the printed documents, the oversized repro was shot at a reduction to produce final-sized negatives for offset printing. You get the same effect by printing this paper at 83% of full size, which reduces the 12-point body text to 10 points, increases the left/right margins to 0.93”, and increases the top/bottom margins to 1.04”. This permits two versions of a document to coexist simultaneously in the same file without the necessity of changing page layouts, font sizes, or graphic and table sizes. In the on-line version (without the superfluous margins) all text, graphics, and tables are 20% larger at a 100% zoom setting than they would be if everything appeared in its final size. The entire article is available on the microtype site, http://www.microtype.com/resources/articles/TMPDESIN_DE.PDF HTH, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited 3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3 Toronto, ON, Canada M1W 3K5 +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Lise, Years ago, a colleague suggested that I set up all projects to work with both A4 paper and US letter 8.5 x 11 paper by setting the page size to Custom with the width to 8.26 and the height to 11. As far as I know, this works, and you don't have to switch back and forth. You'll have a little larger margins on US letter, but not a big deal. ~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC lindag at techcomplus dot com http://www.techcomplus.com/ www.techcomplus.com 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 _ From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:57 AM To: Post Framers Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Hello Lise; There are two (IMO) better solutions than two full books. One is to use a universal page (11.5 x 7.5 in ) --short enough to fit on US Letter; narrow enough for A4. The downside is that you will end up with extra white space (LR on US, TB on A4). OTOH, you can print the PDF anywhere. The other is to define two templates (one for each paper size), and then generate two PDFs (applying the other template between generation). Grant On 2/21/2013 8:57 AM, Lise Bible wrote: Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Doh! Peter is correct about the page dimensions. Sufficient coffee evidently has not reached neurons yet. Grant On 2/21/2013 9:35 AM, Peter Hirons wrote: I frequently hit this problem, but my solution is to define a custom paper size of 8.25 x 11 inches. This will print on both paper sizes without problems and means you don't have the problems of making things fit. Peter ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Create two sets of master page definitions and import the one you want? On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
A3 is 11.693 x 16.535. Brits are used to putting up with American English in technical documentation, but if you had to deliver two versions, it would probably be most efficient to handle one as a translation. On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote: What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size “fudge” for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Hello All While I agree about the use of two templates, there's a more philosophical aspect to this that has not been mentioned. When we talk about page size, we refer to the physical paper on which a document will be printed. But a more important consideration from an aesthetic point of view is the text block size. If you're one of those people who goes for one-inch margins all round, this is not an issue. A typographical purist, on the other hand, would want to consider all the dimensions on the page: text block height and width (and therefore ratio), ratios of margins to text block, placement of headers and footers, etc. In most cases the right and left margins would be different, and so would the top and bottom. (William Bringhurst's book Elements of Typographical Style is a great resource for this.) To do this properly you would indeed need to use two different templates with different dimensions for all of these, in order to maintain pleasing ratios. But you could do a pretty good job with a single template if your text block size is well chosen. The few millimetres difference between letter size and A4 when printed would not interfere too much with the layout. And you would have none of the problems associated with reflow of content between the two page sizes. Just my 2c. Roger Shuttleworth London, Canada On 21/02/2013 10:57 AM, Lise Bible wrote: Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- *Save the earth.* It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shutti...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shuttie27%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Variables. Then just define each variable as having the UK spelling in your A4 template and the US spelling in your letter template. The only painful thing is that you may have to define two variables per word to capture cases with and without caps (e.g. colour and Colour). I'd be asking the decision maker whether it's really worth it to customise the spelling. Will it really affect your sales or reputation? Another question is whether the product interface spelling changes with location. You'd want to match it in the docs. We use US spelling globally, in both the interface and the docs. No-one's ever complained. Cheers Rebecca Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com 22/02/13 07:11 Here’s a “what if” scenario to layer on top of the Letter vs A4 sizing issue (clever solution Nadine – I’ll keep that in mind for my Service Manual)… What if you also had to switch from US to UK spelling when you switched from Letter to A4? What would be the most straightforward way to handle that? Also, does anyone know the equivalent custom paper size “fudge” for switching between Tabloid (11x17) and the closest European paper size? Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:44 AM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender has the authority to issue and specifically states them to be the views of Allied Telesis Labs. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book?
Hi, Another aspect which was not mentioned yet: If you have two different templates, I assume that the margins are kept for both paper sizes. That means that the text frame for the main text flow has a different width. That also means that tables which will extend across the text frame width might be too wide in the other template. Or graphics are too large. I recommend to use a FrameScript script (which would not be that complicated) to do this for you. Or you make the text frame size fit to both paper sizes as others had suggested. Best regards Winfried From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:44 PM To: Lise Bible; Post Framers Subject: Re: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? You could try creating two separate templates (in FM files that are separate from the book and separate from each other). One template file is 8.5 x 11, and the other is A4. Both can contain all other attributes (paragraph styles, character styles, colour definitions, etc). Apply the first template when you want to create a PDF for the US market. Once that's complete, apply the second template to the book to create the PDF for the European market. Alternatively, you could use a processor that ignores your FM settings (that is, you would set up all your formatting in the processor), and then generate two different outputs. Nadine From: Lise Bible rentagoodb...@gmail.commailto:rentagoodb...@gmail.com To: Post Framers framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:57:12 AM Subject: switch between 8.5x11 and A4 sized pages within the same book? Fellow Framers, I'm mostly a lurker, but have found the wealth of knowledge shared by this list's members to be quite helpful! I have a manual (I'm on Frame 8) in which I've used conditional text to show/hide tables, text, parts lists depending on if it's for the American market or European. This manual originated for a US-made product so it started life with 8.5x11 (US-letter size) pages. And it didn't even occur to me that it might need to be A4-sized for the European market. Is there a good way to switch back and forth between A4 and 8.5x11 page sizes, depending on which version of a book you want to print? I have the sneaking suspicion that I will have to break this into two separate books, but I figured I'd ask to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks, Lise -- Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
