The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
>> You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is released between operations, Yes, I know. >> I think you do your readers a disservice to encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they *don't* have to do. Ok, that's a point. >> MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) and all caps for the letter keys Yes, thanks for pointing that out. >> (which is how the letters appear on the keyboard). Actually - they do *not*. Which is why I made the mistake of writing them the way I did. But, again, thanks for pointing out that according to MS they should be CAPS. >> For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by spaces. So the MSTP instruction would be "press CTRL+M, CTRL+F." Ok, so that seems to be the bottom line. That's the way I wrote it originally. Not that I though that it looked great, but just there seemed no other alternative I could find in the rule book. And so it's left as self-understood that you don't have to take your finger off the CTRL key in between. >> (Adobe has a different standard that uses mixed case, probably stemming from its compatibility with UNIX, which is case-sensitive in ways that DOS and Windows weren't and aren't.) >> As for the SME, I assume that writing documentation according to standards is not the SM in which they are E; *you* would be the E in that SM, and entitled to stand your ground! ;-) No, I have no problem with that - it's just that I also didn't like what I wrote. Thanks, - avi On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Stuart Rogers < srogers at phoenix-geophysics.com> wrote: > Avraham Makeler wrote: > >> Hi David, >> Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. >> >> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and >>> then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). >> >> A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: >> >>I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You >> need to separate the steps is the issue. >>Hope that helps! >> >> And I replied as follows: >> >> >> Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly >> what >> I wrote in my first draft! >> >> (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all >> accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) >> >> The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f >> you >> then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. >> >> However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems >> the only solution. >> >> The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or >> two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be >> correct. >> >> >> >> >> So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all >> converging on the same solution, >> however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives >> the >> wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after >> doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. >> >> I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). >> >> Thanks, >> >> - avi >> > > I think you are re-inventing the wheel, as well as introducing ambiguity. > (Is the user supposed to press the comma key? the parentheses keys? Some > users are very literal.) Microsoft's MSTP guidelines work perfectly well > for your situation, and they are an industry standard. > > You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or > released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are > pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The > computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it > receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a > modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is > pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is > released between operations, I think you do your readers a disservice to > encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they > *don't* have to do. > > MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) > and all caps for the letter keys (which is how the letters appear on the > keyboard). For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by > spaces. So the MSTP instructio
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham Makeler wrote: > Hi David, > Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. > >>> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and > then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). > > A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: > > I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You > need to separate the steps is the issue. > Hope that helps! > > And I replied as follows: > > > Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly what > I wrote in my first draft! > > (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all > accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) > > The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f you > then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. > > However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems > the only solution. > > The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or > two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be > correct. > > > > > So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all > converging on the same solution, > however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives the > wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after > doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. > > I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). > > Thanks, > > - avi I think you are re-inventing the wheel, as well as introducing ambiguity. (Is the user supposed to press the comma key? the parentheses keys? Some users are very literal.) Microsoft's MSTP guidelines work perfectly well for your situation, and they are an industry standard. You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is released between operations, I think you do your readers a disservice to encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they *don't* have to do. MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) and all caps for the letter keys (which is how the letters appear on the keyboard). For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by spaces. So the MSTP instruction would be "press CTRL+M, CTRL+F." (Adobe has a different standard that uses mixed case, probably stemming from its compatibility with UNIX, which is case-sensitive in ways that DOS and Windows weren't and aren't.) As for the SME, I assume that writing documentation according to standards is not the SM in which they are E; *you* would be the E in that SM, and entitled to stand your ground! ;-) HTH, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited Toronto, ON, Canada +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 srogers phoenix-geophysics com "Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product." -- Eleanor Roosevelt
Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
>> You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is released between operations, Yes, I know. >> I think you do your readers a disservice to encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they *don't* have to do. Ok, that's a point. >> MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) and all caps for the letter keys Yes, thanks for pointing that out. >> (which is how the letters appear on the keyboard). Actually - they do *not*. Which is why I made the mistake of writing them the way I did. But, again, thanks for pointing out that according to MS they should be CAPS. >> For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by spaces. So the MSTP instruction would be "press CTRL+M, CTRL+F." Ok, so that seems to be the bottom line. That's the way I wrote it originally. Not that I though that it looked great, but just there seemed no other alternative I could find in the rule book. And so it's left as self-understood that you don't have to take your finger off the CTRL key in between. >> (Adobe has a different standard that uses mixed case, probably stemming from its compatibility with UNIX, which is case-sensitive in ways that DOS and Windows weren't and aren't.) >> As for the SME, I assume that writing documentation according to standards is not the SM in which they are E; *you* would be the E in that SM, and entitled to stand your ground! ;-) No, I have no problem with that - it's just that I also didn't like what I wrote. Thanks, - avi On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Stuart Rogers < srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com> wrote: > Avraham Makeler wrote: > >> Hi David, >> Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. >> >> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and >>> then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). >> >> A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: >> >>I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You >> need to separate the steps is the issue. >>Hope that helps! >> >> And I replied as follows: >> >> >> Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly >> what >> I wrote in my first draft! >> >> (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all >> accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) >> >> The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f >> you >> then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. >> >> However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems >> the only solution. >> >> The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or >> two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be >> correct. >> >> >> >> >> So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all >> converging on the same solution, >> however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives >> the >> wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after >> doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. >> >> I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). >> >> Thanks, >> >> - avi >> > > I think you are re-inventing the wheel, as well as introducing ambiguity. > (Is the user supposed to press the comma key? the parentheses keys? Some > users are very literal.) Microsoft's MSTP guidelines work perfectly well > for your situation, and they are an industry standard. > > You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or > released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are > pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The > computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it > receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a > modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is > pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is > released between operations, I think you do your readers a disservice to > encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they > *don't* have to do. > > MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) > and all caps for the letter keys (which is how the letters appear on the > keyboard). For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by > spaces. So the MSTP instruction w
Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham Makeler wrote: > Hi David, > Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. > >>> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and > then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). > > A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: > > I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You > need to separate the steps is the issue. > Hope that helps! > > And I replied as follows: > > > Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly what > I wrote in my first draft! > > (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all > accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) > > The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f you > then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. > > However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems > the only solution. > > The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or > two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be > correct. > > > > > So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all > converging on the same solution, > however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives the > wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after > doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. > > I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). > > Thanks, > > - avi I think you are re-inventing the wheel, as well as introducing ambiguity. (Is the user supposed to press the comma key? the parentheses keys? Some users are very literal.) Microsoft's MSTP guidelines work perfectly well for your situation, and they are an industry standard. You have said that it is irrelevant whether the CTRL key is held or released between operations, as long as it is held when the M and F keys are pressed. Of course this is so; that's how computer keyboards work. The computer pays no attention to whether a modifier key is released, because it receives the code from the keyboard at the moment a key is *pressed*. If a modifier key (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT) is held at the same time as a letter key is pressed, a different code is sent. Since it is irrelevant whether CTRL is released between operations, I think you do your readers a disservice to encumber them with invented conventions or instructions about what they *don't* have to do. MSTP is consistent in using all caps for the modifier keys (CTRL, SHIFT) and all caps for the letter keys (which is how the letters appear on the keyboard). For key sequences, the guideline is to use commas followed by spaces. So the MSTP instruction would be "press CTRL+M, CTRL+F." (Adobe has a different standard that uses mixed case, probably stemming from its compatibility with UNIX, which is case-sensitive in ways that DOS and Windows weren't and aren't.) As for the SME, I assume that writing documentation according to standards is not the SM in which they are E; *you* would be the E in that SM, and entitled to stand your ground! ;-) HTH, -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited Toronto, ON, Canada +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 srogers phoenix-geophysics com "Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product." -- Eleanor Roosevelt ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Hi David, Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. >> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You need to separate the steps is the issue. Hope that helps! And I replied as follows: Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly what I wrote in my first draft! (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f you then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems the only solution. The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be correct. So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all converging on the same solution, however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives the wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). Thanks, - avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 5:17 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: > Avraham, > > > > I looked a little further, and then remembered that FrameMaker has many > such shortcut sequences. So I went to the FrameMaker manuals and found this > example: > > > > *Character Sets, page 2, Using key sequences* > > Control+q Shift+a - Holding down Control while pressing the letter q, then > releasing both keys, and then holding down Shift while pressing the letter a > > > > So, to use your situation and MSTP terminology: > > > > Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and > then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). > > > > I, personally, don?t like the wording in the Adobe description but that is > how it is worded. > > > > *From:* Avraham Makeler [mailto:amakeler at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:51 AM > *To:* David Spreadbury > *Cc:* framers at lists.frameusers.com > *Subject:* Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > > >> Two questions: > > >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Yes > > >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > No > > > > Thanks, > > > > avi > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury > wrote: > > Avraham, > > Two questions: > > Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and > hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." > > The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus > (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). > > It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between > sequences. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > Hi all, > > RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no > particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there > is > the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long > and > complex keyboard shortcuts. > > So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough > issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason > I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced > technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. > > I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', > whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: > >Ctrl M+F > > The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still > pressed, > then press the F key. > > And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of > negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) &g
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
>> Two questions: >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results?Yes >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? No Thanks, avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: > Avraham, > > Two questions: > > Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and > hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." > > The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus > (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). > > It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between > sequences. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > Hi all, > > RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no > particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there > is > the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long > and > complex keyboard shortcuts. > > So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough > issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason > I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced > technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. > > I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', > whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: > >Ctrl M+F > > The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still > pressed, > then press the F key. > > And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of > negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) > > But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? > I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. > after the 'Ctrl'. > But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. > --- > > Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the > Ctrl key, and then press the F key > > --- > > And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing > keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of > bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the > issues here. > > Thanks all, > > - avi > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspreadb at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > >
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham, I looked a little further, and then remembered that FrameMaker has many such shortcut sequences. So I went to the FrameMaker manuals and found this example: Character Sets, page 2, Using key sequences Control+q Shift+a - Holding down Control while pressing the letter q, then releasing both keys, and then holding down Shift while pressing the letter a So, to use your situation and MSTP terminology: Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). I, personally, don't like the wording in the Adobe description but that is how it is worded. From: Avraham Makeler [mailto:amake...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:51 AM To: David Spreadbury Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts >> Two questions: >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Yes >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? No Thanks, avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: Avraham, Two questions: Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between sequences. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspreadb at yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Hi David, Thanks for the effort you're putting into this. >> Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). A little earlier, I got the following reply from somebody offlist: I would say "ctrl+f, ctrl+m" would be the best way to do that. You need to separate the steps is the issue. Hope that helps! And I replied as follows: Great minds think alike! Lacking any other alternative, that's exactly what I wrote in my first draft! (And it was on that the SME wrote his take, and told me to change them all accordingly to Ctrl M+F.) The problem is, that ctrl+f, ctrl+m make it look as if after the ctrl+f you then have to first release the Ctrl key and only then do Ctrl+M. However, lacking any other alternative *standard* alternative, this seems the only solution. The only other alternative would be to create our own new standard. One or two people suggested to me Ctrl+(M,F) - and that also seems to me to be correct. So coming back to your suggestion, David, it seems that are are all converging on the same solution, however, it's just that 'ctrl+f, ctrl+m' (with a space or a comma) gives the wrong impression that you have to take your finger off the Ctrl key after doing Ctrl+M and before doing Ctrl+F; you do not have to. I would want to define a new standard, like this: Ctrl+(M,F). Thanks, - avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 5:17 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: > Avraham, > > > > I looked a little further, and then remembered that FrameMaker has many > such shortcut sequences. So I went to the FrameMaker manuals and found this > example: > > > > *Character Sets, page 2, Using key sequences* > > Control+q Shift+a - Holding down Control while pressing the letter q, then > releasing both keys, and then holding down Shift while pressing the letter a > > > > So, to use your situation and MSTP terminology: > > > > Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and > then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). > > > > I, personally, don’t like the wording in the Adobe description but that is > how it is worded. > > > > *From:* Avraham Makeler [mailto:amake...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:51 AM > *To:* David Spreadbury > *Cc:* framers@lists.frameusers.com > *Subject:* Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > > >> Two questions: > > >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Yes > > >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > No > > > > Thanks, > > > > avi > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury > wrote: > > Avraham, > > Two questions: > > Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and > hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." > > The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus > (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). > > It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between > sequences. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > Hi all, > > RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no > particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there > is > the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long > and > complex keyboard shortcuts. > > So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough > issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason > I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced > technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. > > I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', > whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: > >Ctrl M+F > > The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still > pressed, > then press the F key. > > And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of > negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) > > But is
RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham, I looked a little further, and then remembered that FrameMaker has many such shortcut sequences. So I went to the FrameMaker manuals and found this example: Character Sets, page 2, Using key sequences Control+q Shift+a - Holding down Control while pressing the letter q, then releasing both keys, and then holding down Shift while pressing the letter a So, to use your situation and MSTP terminology: Press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter m, release both keys, and then press and hold Ctrl while pressing the letter f (Ctrl+M Ctrl+F). I, personally, don't like the wording in the Adobe description but that is how it is worded. From: Avraham Makeler [mailto:amake...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:51 AM To: David Spreadbury Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts >> Two questions: >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Yes >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? No Thanks, avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: Avraham, Two questions: Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between sequences. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham, Two questions: Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between sequences. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspreadb at yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
>> Two questions: >> Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results?Yes >> Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? No Thanks, avi On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, David Spreadbury wrote: > Avraham, > > Two questions: > > Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? > > Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? > > If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and > hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." > > The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus > (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). > > It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between > sequences. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > Hi all, > > RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts > > > I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no > particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there > is > the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long > and > complex keyboard shortcuts. > > So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough > issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason > I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced > technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. > > I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', > whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: > >Ctrl M+F > > The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still > pressed, > then press the F key. > > And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of > negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) > > But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? > I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. > after the 'Ctrl'. > But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. > --- > > Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the > Ctrl key, and then press the F key > > --- > > And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing > keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of > bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the > issues here. > > Thanks all, > > - avi > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Avraham, Two questions: Will Ctrl+M, followed by Ctrl+F, give the proper results? Will Ctrl+M+F give the proper results? If the second is true, I would document it by teling the user; "Press and hold the Control key then press M followed by F (Ctrl+M+F)." The Microsoft Manual of Style, version 2, always has shortcuts with a plus (+) following Ctrl, Alt, of Shift (Ctrl+?). It seems to depend on whether you need to release the Ctrl key between sequences. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Makeler Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:57 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts
Hi all, RE: The correct shorthand for writing keyboard shortcuts I have a general question on writing keyboard shortcuts - but no particularly connected to FM. So I was referred to this forum sicne there is the general impression that FM users are the champions of extremely long and complex keyboard shortcuts. So here is my question: It is a surprising problem to have: a simple enough issue that I should have already come across years ago, but for some reason I am bumping into it only now. I have asked a number of experienced technical writers about this, but have had no convincing answer. I am documenting a GUI, that has a certain command called 'Merge Forms', whose keyboard shortcut is, *as the SME writes it*: Ctrl M+F The SME means to say: press Ctrl+M and then with the Ctrl key still pressed, then press the F key. And this does in fact successfully invoke the required operation. (Not of negligible importance: Ctrl+M followed by Ctrl+F will also work.) But is 'Ctrl M+F' the correct way to write this? I think not. For a start, the custom seems to be to write a plus (+) immed. after the 'Ctrl'. But 'Ctrl+M+F' means something else: to press all three keys at once. --- Ctrl+M, F is not correct, since it means: Press Ctrl+M, then release the Ctrl key, and then press the F key --- And another surprise I had is that when I tried a few experiments typing keyb sequences in the MS Word 'Customize Keyboard' dlg box, I found lots of bugs. But since this is an FM forum and not a Word forum I wont detail the issues here. Thanks all, - avi ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
