Thanks to everyone who commented on my roundtrip/single-source query for UserGuide/Help integration. As the experts pointed out, what I am looking for is single-source linkage, not roundtripping, so I stand corrected.
BTW, I'm always on the lookout for simple tools that simplify the writing process and found a no-frills snippets tool that doesn't involve multiple tabs and multiple files: Express Notes http://www.nch.com.au/notes/index.html Happy framing and remember how lucky you are not to have to use the dreaded MS-Word for complex list numbering (i.e., two numbered lists in the same document). Ben Ben Hechter bhechter at objectives.ca www.semitake.com --- On Thu, 5/22/08, framers-request at lists.frameusers.com <framers-request at lists.frameusers.com> wrote: > From: framers-request at lists.frameusers.com <framers-request at > lists.frameusers.com> > Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 31, Issue 22 > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Date: Thursday, May 22, 2008, 8:00 AM > Send Framers mailing list submissions to > framers at lists.frameusers.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > framers-request at lists.frameusers.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > framers-owner at lists.frameusers.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Framers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. FW: TimeSavers (Baruch Brodersen) > 2. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Ben Hechter) > 3. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Jerilynne Knight) > 4. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Rene Stephenson) > 5. RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenor egg? (Linda G. Gallagher) > 6. how to get list of variables and values (Karene > Millar) > 7. Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away (Jona > Steenbrink) > 8. Re: Booklet function with Framemaker (Jeffrey > Osier-Mixon) > 9. MS Office crashes FM8? (Hayward, Morgan (Bolton)) > 10. Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (mathieu jacquet) > 11. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Jim Owens) > 12. RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (Michael O'Neill) > 13. RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (Kelly McDaniel) > 14. Re: MS Office crashes FM8? (Art Campbell) > 15. RE: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away (Flato, > Gillian) > 16. RE: how to get list of variables and values > (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) > 17. Re: how to get list of variables and values (Stuart > Rogers) > 18. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Rene Stephenson) > 19. Re: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (Stuart Rogers) > 20. RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenor egg? (Combs, Richard) > 21. RE: TimeSavers (Diane Gaskill) > 22. RE: TimeSavers (Diane Gaskill) > 23. RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? (Kelly McDaniel) > 24. Conditional text xref problem - regression in FM8 > p276? > (Adam Schweitzer) > 25. RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? (Michael O'Neill) > 26. Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away (Jona > Steenbrink) > 27. RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (Robert Evans) > 28. RE: MS Office crashes FM8? (Hayward, Morgan (Bolton)) > 29. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? (Deirdre Reagan) > 30. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? (Jim Owens) > 31. RE: TimeSavers (Shlomo Perets) > 32. RE: TimeSavers (Shlomo Perets) > 33. Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away (Art > Campbell) > 34. Re: Booklet function with Framemaker (Ben Hechter) > 35. RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > (Catherine Woods) > 36. Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? (Jeremy H. Griffith) > 37. RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp > -chickenoregg? (Schmidt, Tom) > 38. Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away (Jona > Steenbrink) > 39. OT: Job posting (contract): Pasadena company seeks > Senior > Technical Writer with API documentation experience > (Shelly Schneider) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:15:47 +0300 > From: "Baruch Brodersen" > <baruch at technitext.com> > Subject: FW: TimeSavers > To: > <obair81 at comcast.net>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <000901c8bb3c$68a736c0$93c8a8c0 at roadwarrior> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Paul, > > We've used TimeSavers, TS-navigation Assistant, and > TS-Forms Assistant for > years to produce show-stopping, crowd-pleasing PDFs. There > are few tools > that rival its ability to significantly improve quality PDF > output. For our > company, TimeSavers is indispensable; right up there with > FrameScript and > IXGen. > > Baruch Brodersen > > > *************************************** > > You wrote: > > I am looking into asking our IT department to buy > TimeSavers, the FrameMaker > plugin. > > Does anyone on this list use this product? If so, could > you email me > through the list or directly and let me know how you are > using it and your > thoughts about the product? > > Our IT budget is, well, wee, and I need to be able to truly > justify new > purchases. > > Thanks. > > best, > Paul > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ben Hechter <bhechter at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <912473.32316.qm at web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi All, > > Competent in Framemaker but new to Robohelp, with the > following question: > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp) for a constantly evolving product, > would you: > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > Certainly interested in tools integration war stories from > the battlefront, but even more interested in the > information design perspective... > > ...potential benefits of the chunking constraint of > starting with help first (to keep the user guide tight), > vs. needing to hammer down expanded user guide content into > help topics. > > Any and all opinions most welcome! > > Ben > > Ben Hechter > objectives.ca > Vancouver BC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:28:19 -0500 > From: "Jerilynne Knight" > <jerilynne.knight at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: "Framer's List" > <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <990d4a60805210828n4844c77djc1f9bb60a540d4a3 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Ben > > Years ago, during my first single sourcing project for a > client (when I > hadn't even heard the term...grin), we started with the > help file design. We > ALWAYS started with a map of the components we wanted to > include in each > deliverable type and documented what each category of > information would > include. And we always created in Frame and exported to the > help tool. To > this day, that is the way I do single sourcing. My initial > analysis provides > the framework for the content, FrameMaker is my source for > the content, and > I output to another tool for other deliverables (help, > etc.). In my opinion, > it is the analysis of your content and what goes where, > what the differences > are and the like that are the most important aspect of this > type of project. > > The big question I ask myself first is "how do I > define what is included in > each deliverable?". Then, *why* am I > including/excluding the information on > my list. Then I move on from there. > > Don't know if that helps...and please do feel free to > send a private email > or give me a call at 317-508-2898 if you need someone to > chat with. > > A note: My background is in using unstructured FrameMaker > to create single > sourced projects. There are others on this group who have > amazing talents in > various tools and techniques and I stand in awe of their > gifts! > > Blessings > Jerilynne Knight > > > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Ben Hechter > <bhechter at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Competent in Framemaker but new to Robohelp, with the > following question: > > > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp) > > for a constantly evolving product, would you: > > > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > > > Certainly interested in tools integration war stories > from the battlefront, > > but even more interested in the information design > perspective... > > > > ...potential benefits of the chunking constraint of > starting with help > > first (to keep the user guide tight), vs. needing to > hammer down expanded > > user guide content into help topics. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:31:47 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene Stephenson <rinnie1 at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: bhechter at objectives.ca, framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <903030.38063.qm at web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I would: > d) Buy the current Adobe Technical Communicator Suite, just > a $900 upgrade with ANY previous license for FM or RH. > > ...because the new RH and FM8 work together seamlessly. As > I understand it, you don't have to roundtrip stuff back > and forth through MIF anymore. You just set up your RH > template, point it to the FM source, make all your edits in > FM, and as the content evolves in FM, so does your Help > output. Just regenerate the RH project as needed. > > ;-) > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ben Hechter <bhechter at yahoo.com> > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:07:17 AM > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - chicken or egg? > > Hi All, > > Competent in Framemaker but new to Robohelp, with the > following question: > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp) for a constantly evolving product, > would you: > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > Certainly interested in tools integration war stories from > the battlefront, but even more interested in the > information design perspective... > > ...potential benefits of the chunking constraint of > starting with help first (to keep the user guide tight), > vs. needing to hammer down expanded user guide content into > help topics. > > Any and all opinions most welcome! > > Ben > > Ben Hechter > objectives.ca > Vancouver BC > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:47:05 -0600 > From: "Linda G. Gallagher" > <lindag at techcomplus.com> > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenor egg? > To: "'Rene Stephenson'" > <rinnie1 at yahoo.com>, <bhechter at objectives.ca>, > <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <003501c8bb59$ee0e57e0$6400000a at LindaDellDec06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hmm, I gather that the integration isn't quite that > smooth between RH and FM > in the Tech Comm Suite. Admittedly, I have only tried it > once, but I believe > that it is still a .mif import that you have to repeat if > you make changes > to the FM content. Given that, it might not quite be the > full-blown single > sourcing toolset you want. It may get there some day, but > not yet. > > I continue to use FM and WebWorks ePublisher Pro (WWeP) for > most projects. > They work together very well and always have. I create > content in FM and use > WWeP to convert to various flavors of help. > > Mif2Go is another possibility. It uses your FM content to > convert to various > flavors of help, too. While I use the tool for some help > conversion, I find > the .ini file interface not as friendly as I'd ideally > like. > > Flare purports to do the same thing, but I gave up on it > some time ago, as > neither their support nor I could get it to work (with > content that works > fine with WWeP and Mif2Go). > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Linda G. Gallagher > TechCom Plus, LLC > lindag at techcomplus dot com > www.techcomplus.com > 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 > User guides, online help, FrameMaker and > WebWorks ePublisher templates > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > Rene Stephenson > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:32 AM > To: bhechter at objectives.ca; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenor egg? > > I would: > d) Buy the current Adobe Technical Communicator Suite, just > a $900 upgrade > with ANY previous license for FM or RH. > > ..because the new RH and FM8 work together seamlessly. As I > understand it, > you don't have to roundtrip stuff back and forth > through MIF anymore. You > just set up your RH template, point it to the FM source, > make all your edits > in FM, and as the content evolves in FM, so does your Help > output. Just > regenerate the RH project as needed. > > ;-) > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ben Hechter <bhechter at yahoo.com> > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:07:17 AM > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - chicken > or egg? > > Hi All, > > Competent in Framemaker but new to Robohelp, with the > following question: > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp) > for a constantly evolving product, would you: > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > Certainly interested in tools integration war stories from > the battlefront, > but even more interested in the information design > perspective... > > ..potential benefits of the chunking constraint of starting > with help first > (to keep the user guide tight), vs. needing to hammer down > expanded user > guide content into help topics. > > Any and all opinions most welcome! > > Ben > > Ben Hechter > objectives.ca > Vancouver BC > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > lindag at techcomplus.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:24:13 -0700 > From: "Karene Millar" > <karenemillar at gmail.com> > Subject: how to get list of variables and values > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <5427987e0805201324q359b7ccbx71fb98ee46bd3f07 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does anyone know of a way to get a complete list (text is > fine) of all > the variables in a FM file and their values? > > I'm using FM 7.1 > > Thank you! > > Karene > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:19:36 -0600 > From: Jona Steenbrink > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> > Subject: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <514F2256-06E2-4CF3-BA61-70FCC641B50E at bluefinrobotics.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Disclaimer: I apologize if this message appears on the list > twice. The > first time I sent it, I did not use the email address that > is > registered with framers. > > > Hi. > > FM 8.0p273 > Windows XP (running on parallels on a Mac) > > I am fast approaching the end of my tether working with > conditional > text. > > FM won't let me make some segments of text > unconditional. In fact, > when I try to remove the conditional tag, the text turns > bright green > with a strikethrough effect. What's more... when I try > again, it's now > bright red with a strikethrough effect. And, (hullo, > what's this?) now > it's bright red with a strikethrough effect and a > change bar. > > All three conditions in the document are set to Style: As > Is, and > three different colors (green, olive, and magenta). > > I cannot make this text unconditional. Selecting (or > deselecting) > Special > Conditional Text > Show Conditional Text at > the document > level or the book level affects all of the conditionally > tagged > paragraphs except for these red, struck through, > paragraphs. > > What's going on? Is it FM telling me that I'm doing > something very > wrong? I've looked at the FM documentation, and > it's giving me > nothing. Does anyone have any idea what might be happening > here? > > Update: I also cannot copy and paste any of the affected > text. If I > select it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v somewhere else, it > won't paste. > Although I can Edit > Undo Paste. Go figure. Is it > possible that these > segments of text have, through some action or combination > of actions, > become hopelessly corrupted? Is that even possible? > > Thanks, > > Jona Steenbrink > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:42:57 -0700 > From: Jeffrey Osier-Mixon <jefro at jefro.net> > Subject: Re: Booklet function with Framemaker > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: <4833C471.7020104 at jefro.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > This is *much* easier done at the printer than in software > of any kind. > Modern professional printer drivers know how to paginate > booklets (or > "signatures"), thus there isn't much sense in > doing it in software > unless you are printing at home. > > If you ARE printing at home, other respondents have > suggested > inexpensive software. I used BlueSquirrel's software > in a production > environment at one point---once you get the template down > it is rock solid. > > Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote: > > Hey > > > > Is there a plugin which enables to create a booklet > with Framemaker. I > > am thinking of a function where for example page 1 > and page 62 is > > printed on one side of the paper and page 2 and page > 61 on the other > > side of the paper. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:35:35 -0400 > From: "Hayward, Morgan (Bolton)" > <mhayward at husky.ca> > Subject: MS Office crashes FM8? > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <317A393CC4CEF94FA49206CFB3109A9C017DFAC5 at BOLEX02.corp.huskyims.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm working with FrameMaker 8.0p273 (unable to download > the latest patch > until Adobe puts it on their website) on Windows XP SP2 and > noticing > that FM8 frequently crashes when I'm working with a > Microsoft Office > application at the same time. It crashes when Outlook > looks for new > e-mail, when I open an Excel file, or when I'm in the > middle of working > with a Word document. It's not an instant thing > though. I can > sometimes be working with FrameMaker and a MSO app for a > good 1/2 hour > before FM8 finally crashes, but it inevitably happens. > > Is anyone else experiencing this problem or have any > suggestions? > > Regards, > Morgan > > _________________________________ > Morgan Hayward > Technical Writer > Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:51:54 +0000 > From: mathieu jacquet <bobitch at hotmail.com> > Subject: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <BLU116-W534C7F4552FBBE710B2D62B6C70 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi to all, > > here is a question from a client: he's just developed a > new GPS-based product in France, has a "getting > started" and "user manual" written (I'm > currently working on it) in French and would like to know > if he is supposed to have them translated... > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated into > the languages of countries where you want the product > marketted". But I am not 100% sure of the answer. > > The other question is: does the client have to have both > manuals translated? > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) documents > about this kind of issue (Europe and/or US)? > > Thank a lot! > > Mathieu. > _________________________________________________________________ > Faites vous de nouveaux amis gr?ce ? l'annuaire des > profils Messenger ! > http://home.services.spaces.live.com/search/?page=searchresults&ss=true&FormId=AdvPeopleSearch&form=SPXFRM&tp=3&sc=2&pg=0&Search.DisplayName=Nom+public&search.gender=&search.age=&Search.FirstName=Pr%C3%A9nom&Search.LastName=Nom&search.location=Lieu&search.occupation=Profession&search.interests=amis&submit=Rechercher > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:57:33 -0400 > From: Jim Owens <jowens at magma.ca> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: Rene Stephenson <rinnie1 at yahoo.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com, bhechter at objectives.ca > Message-ID: <4834466D.7070400 at magma.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Based on a recent evaluation of TCS, my understanding is > that the HTML > cannot be round-tripped. What's more, certain things > you might want in > your HTML cannot be marked up in Frame. For example, if you > want to use > drop-down hotspots, there's no way to mark them up in > FrameMaker; you > have to modify the HTML topics that were generated from the > Frame > source. These modifications cannot be brought back to > Frame. If you > update your Frame source and regenerate the topics, you > have to add the > drop-down hotspots to the topics all over again. > > In fact, as far as I know, any modifications you make to > the HTML topics > are not round-tripped back to your FM files. Basically what > you are > getting in the TCS is a good HTML Help editor that can > import FrameMaker > documents with support for cross-reference, index, and > context > sensitivity markers. > > Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. > > > > Rene Stephenson wrote: > > I would: > > d) Buy the current Adobe Technical Communicator Suite, > just a $900 upgrade with ANY previous license for FM or RH. > > > > ...because the new RH and FM8 work together > seamlessly. As I understand it, you don't have to > roundtrip stuff back and forth through MIF anymore. You > just set up your RH template, point it to the FM source, > make all your edits in FM, and as the content evolves in > FM, so does your Help output. Just regenerate the RH > project as needed. > > > > ;-) > > > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:00:17 -0500 > From: "Michael O'Neill" > <moneill at meta-comm.com> > Subject: RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: "mathieu jacquet" > <bobitch at hotmail.com>, > <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <47B56143498B834AB2595C90E235053001CCA3FB at mailserver.office.meta> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Here's my 2 cents: > > 1) Are their rules, laws, or regulations governing this in > each country it will be sold in (note: type of product > might have an impact here) > > For example, in the USA there _may_ be FDA regulations > about documentation localization for medical devices...FCC > regulations about broadcast equipment documentation and > telecommunications product documentation, etc... > > 2) The marketing decision for the product > > I'm sure at one time or another, most of us English > speakers have had the experience of assembling > furniture/children's toys/gadgets/etc... where the > instructions are not in English. This definitely > contributes to the user impression of the product with > regards to quality. It also might have a relationship to > extra costs for support, returns, malfunctions, etc... for > the company selling the product. In many companies, > Marketing depts. weigh these variables and decide. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers- > > bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of mathieu > jacquet > > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:52 AM > > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > > > > > > Hi to all, > > > > here is a question from a client: he's just > developed a new GPS-based > > product in France, has a "getting started" > and "user manual" written (I'm > > currently working on it) in French and would like to > know if he is > > supposed to have them translated... > > > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated > into the languages of > > countries where you want the product marketted". > But I am not 100% sure of > > the answer. > > > > The other question is: does the client have to have > both manuals > > translated? > > > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) > documents about this kind > > of issue (Europe and/or US)? > > > > Thank a lot! > > > > Mathieu. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Faites vous de nouveaux amis gr?ce ? l'annuaire > des profils Messenger ! > > > http://home.services.spaces.live.com/search/?page=searchresults&ss=true&Fo > > > rmId=AdvPeopleSearch&form=SPXFRM&tp=3&sc=2&pg=0&Search.DisplayName=Nom+pub > > > lic&search.gender=&search.age=&Search.FirstName=Pr%C3%A9nom&Search.LastNam > > > e=Nom&search.location=Lieu&search.occupation=Profession&search.interests=a > > mis&submit=Rechercher > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > moneill at meta-comm.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/moneill%40meta- > > comm.com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:02:28 -0500 > From: "Kelly McDaniel" > <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> > Subject: RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <A60F02215814C943AF426D7E0AF3BCB9018DD379 at pav12exc.corp.pavtech.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Regardless what the regulations are in a given country, one > would want to provide the buyer with documentation in the > most common language of the country at the very least. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > mathieu jacquet > > Sent: 2008-05-21 10:52 > > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > > > > > > Hi to all, > > > > here is a question from a client: he's just > developed a new GPS-based product in France, has a > "getting started" and "user > > manual" written (I'm currently working on it) > in French and would like to know if he is supposed to have > them translated... > > > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated > into the languages of countries where you want the product > marketted". > > But I am not 100% sure of the answer. > > > > The other question is: does the client have to have > both manuals translated? > > > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) > documents about this kind of issue (Europe and/or US)? > > > > Thank a lot! > > > > Mathieu. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Faites vous de nouveaux amis gr?ce ? l'annuaire > des profils Messenger ! > > > http://home.services.spaces.live.com/search/?page=searchresults&ss=true&FormId=AdvPeopleSearch&form=SPXFRM&tp=3 > > > &sc=2&pg=0&Search.DisplayName=Nom+public&search.gender=&search.age=&Search.FirstName=Pr%C3%A9nom&Search.L > > > astName=Nom&search.location=Lieu&search.occupation=Profession&search.interests=amis&submit=Rechercher > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > kmcdaniel at pavtech.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/kmcdaniel%40pavtech.com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:06:12 -0400 > From: "Art Campbell" > <art.campbell at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: MS Office crashes FM8? > To: "Hayward, Morgan (Bolton)" > <mhayward at husky.ca> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <c7d9dd600805210906o60c00313g17985cf8c9464550 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > How much RAM and free disk (\temp) space do you have on > your system? > Art > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Hayward, Morgan (Bolton) > <mhayward at husky.ca> wrote: > > I'm working with FrameMaker 8.0p273 (unable to > download the latest patch > > until Adobe puts it on their website) on Windows XP > SP2 and noticing > > that FM8 frequently crashes when I'm working with > a Microsoft Office > > application at the same time. It crashes when Outlook > looks for new > > e-mail, when I open an Excel file, or when I'm in > the middle of working > > with a Word document. It's not an instant thing > though. I can > > sometimes be working with FrameMaker and a MSO app for > a good 1/2 hour > > before FM8 finally crashes, but it inevitably happens. > > > > Is anyone else experiencing this problem or have any > suggestions? > > > > Regards, > > Morgan > > > > _________________________________ > > Morgan Hayward > > Technical Writer > > Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > -- > Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world > beats a '52 Vincent > and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:12:53 -0700 > From: "Flato, Gillian" > <gflato at nanometrics.com> > Subject: RE: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > To: "Jona Steenbrink" > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com>, > <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <71840CC25A51A947AED5377E1BF3F1A901DC90CE at > colo1-prd-xchg1.corp.nanometrics.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The problem is your track changes feature is on. Go to View > > Track Text > Edit Bar to open the menu. Accept all of the changes and > then turn off > the feature. > > > -Gillian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > Jona > Steenbrink > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:20 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > > Disclaimer: I apologize if this message appears on the list > twice. The > first time I sent it, I did not use the email address that > is > registered with framers. > > > Hi. > > FM 8.0p273 > Windows XP (running on parallels on a Mac) > > I am fast approaching the end of my tether working with > conditional > text. > > FM won't let me make some segments of text > unconditional. In fact, > when I try to remove the conditional tag, the text turns > bright green > with a strikethrough effect. What's more... when I try > again, it's now > bright red with a strikethrough effect. And, (hullo, > what's this?) now > it's bright red with a strikethrough effect and a > change bar. > > All three conditions in the document are set to Style: As > Is, and > three different colors (green, olive, and magenta). > > I cannot make this text unconditional. Selecting (or > deselecting) > Special > Conditional Text > Show Conditional Text at > the document > level or the book level affects all of the conditionally > tagged > paragraphs except for these red, struck through, > paragraphs. > > What's going on? Is it FM telling me that I'm doing > something very > wrong? I've looked at the FM documentation, and > it's giving me > nothing. Does anyone have any idea what might be happening > here? > > Update: I also cannot copy and paste any of the affected > text. If I > select it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v somewhere else, it > won't paste. > Although I can Edit > Undo Paste. Go figure. Is it > possible that these > segments of text have, through some action or combination > of actions, > become hopelessly corrupted? Is that even possible? > > Thanks, > > Jona Steenbrink > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > gflato at nanometrics.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics > .com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:15:23 -0700 > From: <Syed.Hosain at aeris.net> > Subject: RE: how to get list of variables and values > To: > <karenemillar at gmail.com>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <117A6478DABB1D4E9509EA7F413AE78906B98E02 at CTMAIL2.calltower.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, Karene. > > I strongly recommend BookVars from Leximation ... check out > www.leximation.com for more info. Does more than you asked > for, but the > usefulness of it *cannot* be overemphasized! :) > > This is probably my most commonly used plug-in for > FrameMaker. > > Z > > > Does anyone know of a way to get a complete list (text > is fine) of all > > the variables in a FM file and their values? > > > > I'm using FM 7.1 > > > > Thank you! > > > > Karene > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:16:28 -0400 > From: Stuart Rogers <srogers at phoenix-geophysics.com> > Subject: Re: how to get list of variables and values > To: karenemillar at gmail.com > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: <48344ADC.8030305 at phoenix-geophysics.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Karene Millar wrote: > > Does anyone know of a way to get a complete list (text > is fine) of all > > the variables in a FM file and their values? > > > > I'm using FM 7.1 > > > > Thank you! > > > > Karene > > Save the file as .mif, open in a text editor, and search > for the string > "VariableFormats". What follows is the list > you're looking for. > > HTH, > > -- > Stuart Rogers > Technical Communicator > Phoenix Geophysics Limited > Toronto, ON, Canada > +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 > > srogers phoenix-geophysics com > > "A man's screech should exceed his rasp, or > what's a violin for?" > > --another Rogers Original > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:17:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene Stephenson <rinnie1 at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: Jim Owens <jowens at magma.ca> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com, bhechter at objectives.ca > Message-ID: > <425214.75850.qm at web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I'll take your experience over my watching webinars any > day. <g> > Bummer.......... > Oh, well, I guess I can just stick with WWP Pro and FM 7.2 > for a while longer. ;-) > > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Owens <jowens at magma.ca> > ....In fact, as far as I know, any modifications you make > to the HTML topics > are not round-tripped back to your FM files. Basically what > you are > getting in the TCS is a good HTML Help editor that can > import FrameMaker > documents with support for cross-reference, index, and > context > sensitivity markers. ... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:38:52 -0400 > From: Stuart Rogers <srogers at phoenix-geophysics.com> > Subject: Re: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: mathieu jacquet <bobitch at hotmail.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: <4834501C.8000602 at phoenix-geophysics.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > mathieu jacquet wrote: > > Hi to all, > > > > here is a question from a client: he's just > developed a new GPS-based > > product in France, has a "getting started" > and "user manual" written > > (I'm currently working on it) in French and would > like to know if he > > is supposed to have them translated... > > > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated > into the languages > > of countries where you want the product > marketted". But I am not 100% > > sure of the answer. > > > > The other question is: does the client have to have > both manuals > > translated? > > > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) > documents about this > > kind of issue (Europe and/or US)? > > > Mathieu, > > A GPS receiver would probably fall under the Radio > Equipment & > Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) category > of CE-marking > regulations: > A "radio equipment" means a product, or relevant > component thereof, > capable of communication by means of the emission and/or > reception of > radio waves utilising the spectrum allocated to > terrestrial/space > radiocommunication. > > If that's correct, then to sell the unit in the EU, > your client must > conform to a LOT of regulations, which include translating > the > documentation into local languages. The client may want to > engage a > consultant to ensure compliance with CE marking. > > You can find more information by searching "CE > marking" or slogging > through http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/index.htm > > HTH, > > -- > Stuart Rogers > Technical Communicator > Phoenix Geophysics Limited > Toronto, ON, Canada > +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 > > srogers phoenix-geophysics com > > "A man's screech should exceed his rasp, or > what's a violin for?" > > --another Rogers Original > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:56:36 -0600 > From: "Combs, Richard" > <richard.combs at Polycom.com> > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenor egg? > To: > <bhechter at objectives.ca>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <AABEB232F95338499DF8F513EE2B2C78A69F14 at > WSTEXCH00.westminster.polycom.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Ben Hechter wrote: > > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and help > > (Framemaker/Robohelp) for a constantly evolving > product, would you: > > > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > I'd pick (a), but I wouldn't try to (or _want_ to) > roundtrip. I've never > understood the attraction of this "roundtripping" > concept. To me, it > implies that you have not one, but two "source" > files for your content. > I want just one. > > I've used WebWorks (Publisher Pro in my case) and > Mif2Go in the same > manner that Linda Gallagher described. My source files are > in FM, and > WWP or M2G are tools for creating specific > output/deliverables from them > (just like Acrobat Distiller). I have to configure those > tools for the > output I want, but all content changes are made in FM. If I > had the new > Tech Comm Suite, I'd expect to work the same way. > > I wouldn't expect to edit in RH and > "roundtrip" those changes back into > FM any more than I'd expect to touch up text in Acrobat > and "roundtrip" > that back to FM, or make changes to WWP's .htm files > and "roundtrip" > those to FM. > > Even if the FM-RH integration supports that kind of > workflow, it just > doesn't strike me as a good way to work. Maybe because > I'd almost > certainly lose track of which "source" file is > the most current. :-} > > If Jim Owens is right, and there are desirable help > features that can't > be implemented via FM, then these are shortcomings in the > tools that > ought to be put on the enhancement request list. But, IMHO, > "make the > HTML roundtrippable" should not be one of those > requests. > > BTW, if you want to see what it takes to make HTML > "roundtrippable," > have a look at the stuff MS Word creates. <shudder /> > > Richard > > > Richard G. Combs > Senior Technical Writer > Polycom, Inc. > richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom > 303-223-5111 > ------ > rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom > 303-777-0436 > ------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:44:49 -0700 > From: "Diane Gaskill" > <dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > To: "Linda G. Gallagher" > <lindag at techcomplus.com>, > <obair81 at comcast.net>, "'framers at lists.frameusers.'" > <framers at lists.frameusers.com>, "'framers'" > <framers at FrameUsers.com> > Message-ID: > <NBBBJOCJOFAFCABLFHDDOEBFMMAA.dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hi Linda, > > Just curious why you don't just set these in FM. The > settings in FM are in > the PDF Settings dialog box. > Print > PDF Settings (Settings tab) > > Diane > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of > Linda G. > Gallagher > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:02 AM > To: obair81 at comcast.net; > 'framers at lists.frameusers.'; 'framers' > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > > > I use it to do two main things, but I know it can do more: > > - Collapse bookmarks so only the chapter titles show > > - Make sure the file opens to the first page of the PDF > > I'll add that the TimeSavers menu in FM and GUI > interface in the latest > version make using it a breeze. I had an older version that > was not quite as > enjoyable to use. > > [Just a satisfied customer.] > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Linda G. Gallagher > TechCom Plus, LLC > lindag at techcomplus dot com > www.techcomplus.com > 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 > User guides, online help, FrameMaker and > WebWorks ePublisher templates > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > obair81 at comcast.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:47 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.; framers > Subject: TimeSavers > > I am looking into asking our IT department to buy > TimeSavers, the FrameMaker > plugin. > > Does anyone on this list use this product? If so, could > you email me > through the list or directly and let me know how you are > using it and your > thoughts about the product? > > Our IT budget is, well, wee, and I need to be able to truly > justify new > purchases. > > Thanks. > > best, > Paul > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > lindag at techcomplus.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > dgcaller at earthlink.net. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dgcaller%40earthlink.net > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:44:49 -0700 > From: "Diane Gaskill" > <dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > To: "Linda G. Gallagher" > <lindag at techcomplus.com>, > <obair81 at comcast.net>, "'framers at lists.frameusers.'" > <framers at lists.frameusers.com>, "'framers'" > <framers at FrameUsers.com> > Message-ID: > <NBBBJOCJOFAFCABLFHDDOEBFMMAA.dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hi Linda, > > Just curious why you don't just set these in FM. The > settings in FM are in > the PDF Settings dialog box. > Print > PDF Settings (Settings tab) > > Diane > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of > Linda G. > Gallagher > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:02 AM > To: obair81 at comcast.net; > 'framers at lists.frameusers.'; 'framers' > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > > > I use it to do two main things, but I know it can do more: > > - Collapse bookmarks so only the chapter titles show > > - Make sure the file opens to the first page of the PDF > > I'll add that the TimeSavers menu in FM and GUI > interface in the latest > version make using it a breeze. I had an older version that > was not quite as > enjoyable to use. > > [Just a satisfied customer.] > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Linda G. Gallagher > TechCom Plus, LLC > lindag at techcomplus dot com > www.techcomplus.com > 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 > User guides, online help, FrameMaker and > WebWorks ePublisher templates > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > obair81 at comcast.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:47 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.; framers > Subject: TimeSavers > > I am looking into asking our IT department to buy > TimeSavers, the FrameMaker > plugin. > > Does anyone on this list use this product? If so, could > you email me > through the list or directly and let me know how you are > using it and your > thoughts about the product? > > Our IT budget is, well, wee, and I need to be able to truly > justify new > purchases. > > Thanks. > > best, > Paul > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > lindag at techcomplus.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > dgcaller at earthlink.net. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dgcaller%40earthlink.net > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:07:50 -0500 > From: "Kelly McDaniel" > <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <A60F02215814C943AF426D7E0AF3BCB9018DD3DA at pav12exc.corp.pavtech.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > IMHO roundtrip means: With two or more applications, > changes made to a > project in one application are reflected in both, and it > implies that > each application offers some exclusive functionality, and > that there is > some translation of some sort that transpires between the > applications > so that the changes reflected in the "other" > application are rendered in > that application's native method. So stated, roundtrip > does not mean > "When I press the W key here, make a W in both > places." > > This is purely speculative, but I bet the origin is in the > UML world. > That's the only place I've heard the term used > where it actually makes > sense. In UML, roundtrip describes a development > environment > functionality that enables a user to create a code block in > one > application that is rendered as a graphic element in > another > application, and create a graphic element that is rendered > as a block of > code. In UML, it's handy to see a graphic model of your > modeling > language code. It's likewise handy to create a new > object in the graphic > model, connect the new object to the existing structure, > and have the > development environment add the basic code AIBM. Roundtrip > means that > you are working on one thing that is rendered in more than > one way. > Apparently, Adobe marketing got hold of the term roundtrip. > > RoboHelp is an authoring and a limited-functionality > publishing tool > combined, where FrameMaker is an authoring tool. When you > point RoboHelp > to a FrameMaker project, RoboHelp creates it's own > copy. The integration > of the two is incomplete. The term roundtrip should not be > used to > describe the current functionality...Kelly. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > Combs, > Richard > > Sent: 2008-05-21 11:57 > > To: bhechter at objectives.ca; > framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? > > > > Ben Hechter wrote: > > > > > If you had to design roundtrip documentation and > help > > > (Framemaker/Robohelp) for a constantly evolving > product, would you: > > > > > > a) begin in Framemaker and export to Robohelp > > > b) begin in Robohelp and export to Framemaker > > > c) prototype in both and iterate as you go > > > > I'd pick (a), but I wouldn't try to (or _want_ > to) roundtrip. I've > never > > understood the attraction of this > "roundtripping" concept. To me, it > > implies that you have not one, but two > "source" files for your > content. > > I want just one. > > > > I've used WebWorks (Publisher Pro in my case) and > Mif2Go in the same > > manner that Linda Gallagher described. My source files > are in FM, and > > WWP or M2G are tools for creating specific > output/deliverables from > them > > (just like Acrobat Distiller). I have to configure > those tools for the > > output I want, but all content changes are made in FM. > If I had the > new > > Tech Comm Suite, I'd expect to work the same way. > > > > I wouldn't expect to edit in RH and > "roundtrip" those changes back > into > > FM any more than I'd expect to touch up text in > Acrobat and > "roundtrip" > > that back to FM, or make changes to WWP's .htm > files and "roundtrip" > > those to FM. > > > > Even if the FM-RH integration supports that kind of > workflow, it just > > doesn't strike me as a good way to work. Maybe > because I'd almost > > certainly lose track of which "source" file > is the most current. :-} > > > > If Jim Owens is right, and there are desirable help > features that > can't > > be implemented via FM, then these are shortcomings in > the tools that > > ought to be put on the enhancement request list. But, > IMHO, "make the > > HTML roundtrippable" should not be one of those > requests. > > > > BTW, if you want to see what it takes to make HTML > "roundtrippable," > > have a look at the stuff MS Word creates. <shudder > /> > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard G. Combs > > Senior Technical Writer > > Polycom, Inc. > > richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom > > 303-223-5111 > > ------ > > rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom > > 303-777-0436 > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > kmcdaniel at pavtech.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/kmcdaniel%40pavtech. > com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:16:34 -0400 > From: "Adam Schweitzer" > <adam.schweitzer at magellan.aero> > Subject: Conditional text xref problem - regression in FM8 > p276? > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <65D9152DC275D0449721366D698CA366C77F20 at > ON01E204.malca.ds.magellanaerospace.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am having a problem with xrefs to conditional text (where > the xref > also has the same condition applied). What happens is, > after changing > the conditional text settings (just what is shown), saving, > and then > opening the document, the xrefs become unresolved. > Steps: > Initial setup - Document with two conditions - English and > French, with > English xrefs pointing to English text, and French xrefs > pointing to > French text. No unresolved xrefs. > 1) Hide French text using special->Conditional > text->Show/hide > conditional text > (Check for unresolved xrefs - none found) > 2) Show both English and French, as before > (Check for unresolved xrefs - none found) > 3) Save document, close and re-open. > Get pop-up message saying unresolved xrefs. The French > ones are > unresolved. > (NB: The affected xrefs point to paragraph tags. Other > xrefs which > point to elements are unaffected). > > This behaviour only occurs on one machine in our office - > and that > machine is the only one that happens to have p276 (rest are > still on > p273) installed. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this > before? Is this > a problem introduced by p276, or is something else going on > here? > > Thanks, > Adam Schweitzer > Orenda Aerospace Corporation > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:17:35 -0500 > From: "Michael O'Neill" > <moneill at meta-comm.com> > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <47B56143498B834AB2595C90E235053001CCA3FE at mailserver.office.meta> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > If Jim Owens is right, and there are desirable help > features that > can't > > be implemented via FM, then these are shortcomings in > the tools that > > ought to be put on the enhancement request list. But, > IMHO, "make the > > HTML roundtrippable" should not be one of those > requests. > > > Every tool has it's shortcomings... One that was a > deal-breaker for us > when evaluating TCS was the ability to convert step by step > procedures > in FrameMaker to drop-down sections in RH. When we looked, > the only way > to implement drop-down text in RH was to edit and maintain > the content > in RH. Anyone know if this has changed? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:18:41 -0600 > From: Jona Steenbrink > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> > Subject: Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <4FDF83F3-8C51-469E-8C82-D7C5EA2B8B3F at bluefinrobotics.com> > Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Sadly, that is not the problem. Track changes are not, and > were not, on. > > It's a mystery. > > On May 21, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Flato, Gillian wrote: > > > The problem is your track changes feature is on. Go to > View > Track > > Text > > Edit Bar to open the menu. Accept all of the changes > and then turn off > > the feature. > > > > > > -Gillian > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On > Behalf Of Jona > > Steenbrink > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:20 PM > > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > > > > Disclaimer: I apologize if this message appears on the > list twice. The > > first time I sent it, I did not use the email address > that is > > registered with framers. > > > > > > Hi. > > > > FM 8.0p273 > > Windows XP (running on parallels on a Mac) > > > > I am fast approaching the end of my tether working > with conditional > > text. > > > > FM won't let me make some segments of text > unconditional. In fact, > > when I try to remove the conditional tag, the text > turns bright green > > with a strikethrough effect. What's more... when I > try again, it's now > > bright red with a strikethrough effect. And, (hullo, > what's this?) now > > it's bright red with a strikethrough effect and a > change bar. > > > > All three conditions in the document are set to Style: > As Is, and > > three different colors (green, olive, and magenta). > > > > I cannot make this text unconditional. Selecting (or > deselecting) > > Special > Conditional Text > Show Conditional > Text at the document > > level or the book level affects all of the > conditionally tagged > > paragraphs except for these red, struck through, > paragraphs. > > > > What's going on? Is it FM telling me that I'm > doing something very > > wrong? I've looked at the FM documentation, and > it's giving me > > nothing. Does anyone have any idea what might be > happening here? > > > > Update: I also cannot copy and paste any of the > affected text. If I > > select it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v somewhere else, it > won't paste. > > Although I can Edit > Undo Paste. Go figure. Is it > possible that these > > segments of text have, through some action or > combination of actions, > > become hopelessly corrupted? Is that even possible? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jona Steenbrink > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > gflato at nanometrics.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics > > .com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > Jona Steenbrink > Technical Writer > Bluefin Robotics > email: jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com > phone: 720-379-7502 > AIM: pjsteenbrink > Skype: jonasteenbrink > www.bluefinrobotics.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:32:39 +0100 > From: "Robert Evans" <Robert.Evans at arc.com> > Subject: RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: > <7870B9B037E7F142854BBA86F8896CFA016801 at savm-exch03.arc.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > In the EU, if the documentation includes safety information > then it must be in at least one of the official languages of > each country in the EU where the product is sold. > > Safety information is a pretty broad category, but > certainly electrical instructions for charging etc (like a > GPS product), or information on electromagnetic radiation > (again GPS), and anything that might distract a driver (GPS > again) would be classed as safety information. > > More generally - in the EU there a many people who speak > many languages, but there are even more who don't - a > GPS product that isn't documented in a home language > won't sell well. > > Rob Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > Michael O'Neill > Sent: 21 May 2008 17:00 > To: mathieu jacquet; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > > Here's my 2 cents: > > 1) Are their rules, laws, or regulations governing this in > each country it will be sold in (note: type of product > might have an impact here) > > For example, in the USA there _may_ be FDA regulations > about documentation localization for medical devices...FCC > regulations about broadcast equipment documentation and > telecommunications product documentation, etc... > > 2) The marketing decision for the product > > I'm sure at one time or another, most of us English > speakers have had the experience of assembling > furniture/children's toys/gadgets/etc... where the > instructions are not in English. This definitely > contributes to the user impression of the product with > regards to quality. It also might have a relationship to > extra costs for support, returns, malfunctions, etc... for > the company selling the product. In many companies, > Marketing depts. weigh these variables and decide. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers- > > bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of mathieu > jacquet > > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:52 AM > > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > > > > > > Hi to all, > > > > here is a question from a client: he's just > developed a new GPS-based > > product in France, has a "getting started" > and "user manual" written (I'm > > currently working on it) in French and would like to > know if he is > > supposed to have them translated... > > > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated > into the languages of > > countries where you want the product marketted". > But I am not 100% sure of > > the answer. > > > > The other question is: does the client have to have > both manuals > > translated? > > > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) > documents about this kind > > of issue (Europe and/or US)? > > > > Thank a lot! > > > > Mathieu. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Faites vous de nouveaux amis gr?ce ? l'annuaire > des profils Messenger ! > > > http://home.services.spaces.live.com/search/?page=searchresults&ss=true&Fo > > > rmId=AdvPeopleSearch&form=SPXFRM&tp=3&sc=2&pg=0&Search.DisplayName=Nom+pub > > > lic&search.gender=&search.age=&Search.FirstName=Pr%C3%A9nom&Search.LastNam > > > e=Nom&search.location=Lieu&search.occupation=Profession&search.interests=a > > mis&submit=Rechercher > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > moneill at meta-comm.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > > > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/moneill%40meta- > > comm.com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > robert.evans at arc.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert.evans%40arc.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:06:25 -0400 > From: "Hayward, Morgan (Bolton)" > <mhayward at husky.ca> > Subject: RE: MS Office crashes FM8? > To: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <317A393CC4CEF94FA49206CFB3109A9C017DFAC8 at BOLEX02.corp.huskyims.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hi Art, > > I have 59.8 GB of 74.5 GB free and 2 GB of RAM. > > Regards, > Morgan > > _________________________________ > Morgan Hayward > Technical Writer > Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campbell at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:06 PM > To: Hayward, Morgan (Bolton) > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: MS Office crashes FM8? > > How much RAM and free disk (\temp) space do you have on > your system? > Art > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Hayward, Morgan (Bolton) > <mhayward at husky.ca> wrote: > > I'm working with FrameMaker 8.0p273 (unable to > download the latest > > patch until Adobe puts it on their website) on Windows > XP SP2 and > > noticing that FM8 frequently crashes when I'm > working with a Microsoft > > > Office application at the same time. It crashes when > Outlook looks > > for new e-mail, when I open an Excel file, or when > I'm in the middle > > of working with a Word document. It's not an > instant thing though. I > > > can sometimes be working with FrameMaker and a MSO app > for a good 1/2 > > hour before FM8 finally crashes, but it inevitably > happens. > > > > Is anyone else experiencing this problem or have any > suggestions? > > > > Regards, > > Morgan > > > > _________________________________ > > Morgan Hayward > > Technical Writer > > Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > -- > Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world > beats a '52 Vincent > and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No > disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:36:29 -0500 > From: "Deirdre Reagan" > <deirdre.reagan at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? > To: "Kelly McDaniel" > <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <ac6165d80805211136n29a14d33t9af2a419e83f2f72 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP > > As I have no idea what this conversation is about (great > way to open a > discussion in which I offer my thoughts!), I googled > "round-trip" and > the Wikipedia definition says something along the lines of > (no, wait, > it's actually a direct quote): > > "The term round-trip is commonly used in document > conversion > particularly involving markup languages such as XML and > SGML. A > successful round-trip consists of converting a document in > format A > (docA) to one in format B (docB) and then back again to > format A > (docA?). If docA and docA? are identical then there has > been no > information loss and the round-trip has been successful. > More > generally it means converting from any data representation > and back > again, including from one data structure to another." > > Have I added anything to the conversation? Or have I just > told you > what you already know? > > Dying to sit at the grown-ups table, > > Deirdre > > On 5/21/08, Kelly McDaniel <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> > wrote: > > IMHO roundtrip means: With two or more applications, > changes made to a > > project in one application are reflected in both, and > it implies that > > each application offers some exclusive functionality, > and that there is > > some translation of some sort that transpires between > the applications > > so that the changes reflected in the "other" > application are rendered in > > that application's native method. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:53:29 -0400 > From: Jim Owens <jowens at magma.ca> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chickenoregg? > To: Deirdre Reagan <deirdre.reagan at gmail.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: <48346FA9.5040702 at magma.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > That sounds about right to me. In the DITA world, > "round-tripping" might > mean that you could write your document in Frame, export it > to XML, edit > the XML in some other editor, then bring it back into Frame > with the > edits intact. > > Single-sourcing, on the other hand, is a one-way operation > where you > create all your content in one place and then render it in > various > formats, possibly using conditional controls to vary the > content > included in each format. > > > Deirdre Reagan wrote: > > As I have no idea what this conversation is about > (great way to open a > > discussion in which I offer my thoughts!), I googled > "round-trip" and > > the Wikipedia definition says something along the > lines of (no, wait, > > it's actually a direct quote): > > > > "The term round-trip is commonly used in document > conversion > > particularly involving markup languages such as XML > and SGML. A > > successful round-trip consists of converting a > document in format A > > (docA) to one in format B (docB) and then back again > to format A > > (docA?). If docA and docA? are identical then > there has been no > > information loss and the round-trip has been > successful. More > > generally it means converting from any data > representation and back > > again, including from one data structure to > another." > > > > Have I added anything to the conversation? Or have I > just told you > > what you already know? > > > > Dying to sit at the grown-ups table, > > > > Deirdre > > > > On 5/21/08, Kelly McDaniel > <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> wrote: > >> IMHO roundtrip means: With two or more > applications, changes made to a > >> project in one application are reflected in both, > and it implies that > >> each application offers some exclusive > functionality, and that there is > >> some translation of some sort that transpires > between the applications > >> so that the changes reflected in the > "other" application are rendered in > >> that application's native method. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > jowens at magma.ca. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jowens%40magma.ca > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:02:19 +0300 > From: Shlomo Perets <shlomo2 at microtype.com> > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > To: "Diane Gaskill" > <dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com, framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <4.3.2.7.2.20080521212815.02727760 at mail.bezeqint.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; > format=flowed > > Diane Gaskill wrote: > > > > - Collapse bookmarks so only the chapter titles > show > > > - Make sure the file opens to the first page of > the PDF > > >Just curious why you don't just set these in FM. > The settings in FM are in > >the PDF Settings dialog box. > >Print > PDF Settings (Settings tab) > > FrameMaker-to-Acrobat TimeSavers made these features > available years before > they were added to FrameMaker in version 7.x. And even > after these > settings were added to FM, the results were not always as > expected. You > still occasionally see related questions in FrameMaker > forums, such as > http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b4b58c > > In addition to the features that Linda mentioned, > TimeSavers' PDF Initial > View Settings enable you to define ALL settings available > in Acrobat > (including display of Title in title bar), overriding > FM's settings if > necessary. > > Many additional uses of FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants > are described > at http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html > > > Shlomo Perets > > MicroType, http://www.microtype.com * ToolbarPlus Express > for FrameMaker > FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting * > FrameMaker-to-Acrobat > TimeSavers/Assistants > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:02:19 +0300 > From: Shlomo Perets <shlomo2 at microtype.com> > Subject: RE: TimeSavers > To: "Diane Gaskill" > <dgcaller at earthlink.net> > Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com, framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <4.3.2.7.2.20080521212815.02727760 at mail.bezeqint.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; > format=flowed > > Diane Gaskill wrote: > > > > - Collapse bookmarks so only the chapter titles > show > > > - Make sure the file opens to the first page of > the PDF > > >Just curious why you don't just set these in FM. > The settings in FM are in > >the PDF Settings dialog box. > >Print > PDF Settings (Settings tab) > > FrameMaker-to-Acrobat TimeSavers made these features > available years before > they were added to FrameMaker in version 7.x. And even > after these > settings were added to FM, the results were not always as > expected. You > still occasionally see related questions in FrameMaker > forums, such as > http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b4b58c > > In addition to the features that Linda mentioned, > TimeSavers' PDF Initial > View Settings enable you to define ALL settings available > in Acrobat > (including display of Title in title bar), overriding > FM's settings if > necessary. > > Many additional uses of FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants > are described > at http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html > > > Shlomo Perets > > MicroType, http://www.microtype.com * ToolbarPlus Express > for FrameMaker > FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting * > FrameMaker-to-Acrobat > TimeSavers/Assistants > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 33 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:12:48 -0400 > From: "Art Campbell" > <art.campbell at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > To: "Jona Steenbrink" > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <c7d9dd600805211312q4fc85d55s58f1d6911f31bd32 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Have you washed the file by saving out to MIF and opening > that file? > Is there any chance that you have book-level conditional > text settings > turned on that would over-ride the component chapter > file's settings? > > Art > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Jona Steenbrink > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> wrote: > > Sadly, that is not the problem. Track changes are not, > and were not, on. > > > > It's a mystery. > > > > On May 21, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Flato, Gillian wrote: > > > >> The problem is your track changes feature is on. > Go to View > Track > >> Text > >> Edit Bar to open the menu. Accept all of the > changes and then turn off > >> the feature. > >> > >> > >> -Gillian > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > >> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On > Behalf Of Jona > >> Steenbrink > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:20 PM > >> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > >> Subject: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > >> > >> Disclaimer: I apologize if this message appears on > the list twice. The > >> first time I sent it, I did not use the email > address that is > >> registered with framers. > >> > >> > >> Hi. > >> > >> FM 8.0p273 > >> Windows XP (running on parallels on a Mac) > >> > >> I am fast approaching the end of my tether working > with conditional > >> text. > >> > >> FM won't let me make some segments of text > unconditional. In fact, > >> when I try to remove the conditional tag, the text > turns bright green > >> with a strikethrough effect. What's more... > when I try again, it's now > >> bright red with a strikethrough effect. And, > (hullo, what's this?) now > >> it's bright red with a strikethrough effect > and a change bar. > >> > >> All three conditions in the document are set to > Style: As Is, and > >> three different colors (green, olive, and > magenta). > >> > >> I cannot make this text unconditional. Selecting > (or deselecting) > >> Special > Conditional Text > Show > Conditional Text at the document > >> level or the book level affects all of the > conditionally tagged > >> paragraphs except for these red, struck through, > paragraphs. > >> > >> What's going on? Is it FM telling me that > I'm doing something very > >> wrong? I've looked at the FM documentation, > and it's giving me > >> nothing. Does anyone have any idea what might be > happening here? > >> > >> Update: I also cannot copy and paste any of the > affected text. If I > >> select it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v somewhere else, > it won't paste. > >> Although I can Edit > Undo Paste. Go figure. Is > it possible that these > >> segments of text have, through some action or > combination of actions, > >> become hopelessly corrupted? Is that even > possible? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jona Steenbrink > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > gflato at nanometrics.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to > framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics > >> .com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > > Jona Steenbrink > > Technical Writer > > Bluefin Robotics > > email: jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com > > phone: 720-379-7502 > > AIM: pjsteenbrink > > Skype: jonasteenbrink > > www.bluefinrobotics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > -- > Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world > beats a '52 Vincent > and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 34 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:37:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ben Hechter <bhechter at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Booklet function with Framemaker > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <68253.89168.qm at web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > For short runs, booklet assembly may be available as a > simple embedded printer software option, if you are using a > high-volume network printer/copier. > > Ben Hechter > bhechter at objectives.ca > www.semitake.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 35 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:11:08 -0700 > From: "Catherine Woods" <catwood at telus.net> > Subject: RE: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Message-ID: <001b01c8bba8$b75a7e00$260f7a00$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Other questions might be: does your client want all of > translations in one > document? > > Speaking from some translation experience: you also need to > decide what > "flavours" of languages you want? If the product > will be sold in Central and > Latin America as well as Europe, you may want to try > International versions > as opposed to localized. > > Can you change the language that appears on the UI on the > GPS product ? > You'll probably want to sync up the languages on the UI > with the docs. > > Catherine > > -----Original Message----- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > mathieu jacquet > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:52 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Marketing a product: which language for the > documentation > > > Hi to all, > > here is a question from a client: he's just developed a > new GPS-based > product in France, has a "getting started" and > "user manual" written (I'm > currently working on it) in French and would like to know > if he is supposed > to have them translated... > > I answered "yes, you have to have them translated into > the languages of > countries where you want the product marketted". But I > am not 100% sure of > the answer. > > The other question is: does the client have to have both > manuals translated? > > Do you have any idea of official (governmental) documents > about this kind of > issue (Europe and/or US)? > > Thank a lot! > > Mathieu. > _________________________________________________________________ > Faites vous de nouveaux amis gr?ce ? l'annuaire des > profils Messenger ! > http://home.services.spaces.live.com/search/?page=searchresults&ss=true&Form > Id=AdvPeopleSearch&form=SPXFRM&tp=3&sc=2&pg=0&Search.DisplayName=Nom+public& > search.gender=&search.age=&Search.FirstName=Pr%C3%A9nom&Search.LastName=Nom& > search.location=Lieu&search.occupation=Profession&search.interests=amis&subm > it=Rechercher > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > catwood at telus.net. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/catwood%40telus.net > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 36 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:48:49 -0700 > From: "Jeremy H. Griffith" > <jeremy at omsys.com> > Subject: Re: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp - > chicken or egg? > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Cc: bhechter at objectives.ca > Message-ID: > <rpm934l0b3e3gffv1h0u3pqm7n6c01k0hm at 4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, 21 May 2008 08:31:47 -0700 (PDT), Rene Stephenson > <rinnie1 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > >I would: > >d) Buy the current Adobe Technical Communicator Suite, > just a $900 upgrade with ANY previous license for FM or RH. > > > >....because the new RH and FM8 work together > seamlessly. As I understand it, you don't have to > roundtrip stuff back and forth through MIF anymore. You > just set up your RH template, point it to the FM source, > make all your edits in FM, and as the content evolves in > FM, so does your Help output. Just regenerate the RH > project as needed. > > Or: > e) Buy Mif2Go, a $295 plugin for any version of Frame > since 5.5.6, including > 8.x, and save $600... <g> Save way more than that > compared to ePP. > > ... because it really *does* what you want, with your > single source in Frame, > and you never have to roundtrip at all. All Help features > are in your Frame > file, either implicitly (based on formats used) or > explicitly (markers), and > you can generate the Help in seconds whenever you want to > look at it. ;-) > > BTW, that *does* include drop-down text, something > mentioned later in this > thread... And none of the Help markup interferes in any > way with Frame's > normal functionality for print and PDF outputs. > > HTH! > -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. > <jeremy at omsys.com> http://www.omsys.com/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 37 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:10:08 -0400 > From: "Schmidt, Tom" <TSchmidt at gedusa.com> > Subject: RE: roundtrip documentation and help > (Framemaker/Robohelp > -chickenoregg? > To: "Deirdre Reagan" > <deirdre.reagan at gmail.com>, "Kelly > McDaniel" > <kmcdaniel at pavtech.com> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <11C495E83EADC248892A87309752874E03A5C6FB at JN4H.gedusa.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > You left out the "is" between "Dying" > and "to". > > Thomas Schmidt > > -----Original Message----- > > > Dying to sit at the grown-ups table, > > Deirdre > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > The Customer Rules! You call, we JUMP! > -------------------------------------------------------- > Please consider the environment before printing this email > CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: This e-mail message including > attachments, if any, is intended for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, > disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply > e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of > federal criminal law. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 38 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:32:56 -0600 > From: Jona Steenbrink > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> > Subject: Re: Conditional Text Just Won't Go Away > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Message-ID: > <7A87B3F0-877A-405A-B40F-B3FA04C8103E at bluefinrobotics.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Update to conditional text (and thanks for everybody's > input) > > > Despite track changes not being on, clicking Accept All > Changes, does > get rid of the mark-ups. However, it also got rid of all of > the > conditional text. The problem clearly had to do with track > changes in > some way, but surely track changes doesn't > spontaneously turn itself > on... and then apply to only part of a document? > > It's baffling. (To me, at least). > > Anyway, thanks for everyone's help. I will handle > conditional text > with greater care in the future. > > Jona > > On May 21, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Art Campbell wrote: > > > Have you washed the file by saving out to MIF and > opening that file? > > Is there any chance that you have book-level > conditional text settings > > turned on that would over-ride the component chapter > file's settings? > > > > Art > > > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Jona Steenbrink > > <jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com> wrote: > >> Sadly, that is not the problem. Track changes are > not, and were > >> not, on. > >> > >> It's a mystery. > >> > >> On May 21, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Flato, Gillian > wrote: > >> > >>> The problem is your track changes feature is > on. Go to View > Track > >>> Text > >>> Edit Bar to open the menu. Accept all of the > changes and then turn > >>> off > >>> the feature. > >>> > >>> > >>> -Gillian > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > >>> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] > On Behalf Of Jona > >>> Steenbrink > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:20 PM > >>> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > >>> Subject: Conditional Text Just Won't Go > Away > >>> > >>> Disclaimer: I apologize if this message > appears on the list twice. > >>> The > >>> first time I sent it, I did not use the email > address that is > >>> registered with framers. > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi. > >>> > >>> FM 8.0p273 > >>> Windows XP (running on parallels on a Mac) > >>> > >>> I am fast approaching the end of my tether > working with conditional > >>> text. > >>> > >>> FM won't let me make some segments of text > unconditional. In fact, > >>> when I try to remove the conditional tag, the > text turns bright > >>> green > >>> with a strikethrough effect. What's > more... when I try again, it's > >>> now > >>> bright red with a strikethrough effect. And, > (hullo, what's this?) > >>> now > >>> it's bright red with a strikethrough > effect and a change bar. > >>> > >>> All three conditions in the document are set > to Style: As Is, and > >>> three different colors (green, olive, and > magenta). > >>> > >>> I cannot make this text unconditional. > Selecting (or deselecting) > >>> Special > Conditional Text > Show > Conditional Text at the document > >>> level or the book level affects all of the > conditionally tagged > >>> paragraphs except for these red, struck > through, paragraphs. > >>> > >>> What's going on? Is it FM telling me that > I'm doing something very > >>> wrong? I've looked at the FM > documentation, and it's giving me > >>> nothing. Does anyone have any idea what might > be happening here? > >>> > >>> Update: I also cannot copy and paste any of > the affected text. If I > >>> select it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v somewhere > else, it won't paste. > >>> Although I can Edit > Undo Paste. Go > figure. Is it possible that > >>> these > >>> segments of text have, through some action or > combination of > >>> actions, > >>> become hopelessly corrupted? Is that even > possible? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Jona Steenbrink > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > gflato at nanometrics.com. > >>> > >>> Send list messages to > framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >>> or visit > >>> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics > >>> .com > >>> > >>> Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources > and info. > >> > >> Jona Steenbrink > >> Technical Writer > >> Bluefin Robotics > >> email: jsteenbrink at bluefinrobotics.com > >> phone: 720-379-7502 > >> AIM: pjsteenbrink > >> Skype: jonasteenbrink > >> www.bluefinrobotics.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com > > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this > world beats a '52 Vincent > > and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > > No disclaimers apply. > > DoD 358 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 39 > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:34:34 -0700 > From: "Shelly Schneider" > <shelly at softest.com> > Subject: OT: Job posting (contract): Pasadena company seeks > Senior > Technical Writer with API documentation experience > To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com> > Cc: 'Stephen Walker' > <steve at perfectmarket.com> > Message-ID: <6u80qt$58brpj at rrcs-agw-02.hrndva.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Apologies in advance - this is probably NOT a position that > will use > FrameMaker! > > Please do NOT reply to this email address. USE THE LINK > BELOW FOR MORE > DETAILS AND CONTACT INFORMATION. > > A former coworker at Perfect Market, an Idealab company, > has asked me to > post this opening. For full details, please search for > Perfect Market job > openings (writer) at www.idealab.com/careers. > > Perfect Market is seeking a Contract Technical Writer to > help document the > company's technology platform. This documentation will > be a complete > explanation of how the current technology platform > operates, including an > explanation of key software components, database > structures, data warehouse > structures, automated reporting systems and critical manual > processes that > impact the system. This document, when complete, should be > comprehensive > enough to allow new and existing engineers to come up to > speed on any > portion of the technology platform very quickly and should > increase the > overall productivity of the engineering team going forward. > This is a > full-time, contract position. > > The Contract Technical Writer will need to be capable of > documenting > software systems, API's, database structures and human > processes. This > documentation will include diagrams, schematics and written > descriptions in > each of these areas. A Contract Technical Writer that is > capable of > reviewing code and database structures and documenting > those elements > without significant input from an engineer will have a > distinct advantage in > this role. > > Candidate will ensure accurate and timely completion of the > documentation. > Candidate will demonstrate the creativity and initiative to > gather the > required information for the documentation without > prompting or detailed > guidance. In order to be effective, candidate will be > expected to be in our > office in Pasadena, CA a majority of the duration of the > contract. > > INTERESTED CANDIDATES SHOULD SUBMIT THEIR RESUME AND SALARY > HISTORY TO: > http://www.idealab.com/careers or e-mail > steve at perfectmarket.com. > > > Shelly Schneider > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to > Framers. > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 31, Issue 22 > ***************************************
