RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-23 Thread Craig Ede
Tino's description is quite accurate. What this implies is that providing MIFs 
can be cheaper, since all the DTP stuff is taken on after the translation. 
Doing the DTP yourself can be quite instructive in instituting best practices 
for documents that will undergo translation. There are many of these, like 
using numeric callouts in figures with an associated table that describes each 
item (so that that text can vary in length without going outside the anchored 
frame or covering part of the graphic). Note that your numeric callouts will 
have to change if your table numbering system changes the look of the numbers 
themselves.

While doing DTP for a translation company, I got pinged by the customer because 
a cross-reference referred to the wrong page. This was due to the target being 
two paragraphs under a heading rather than in the heading itself. In the 
original document that was on the same page as the heading, so no problem, but 
in the translation the longer text brought out this error in the source. (And 
of course, the DTP person should not be moving Cross-Ref markers around; the 
assumption is that they are in the correct place.) The amount of time spent on 
quality checks that eventually found source file problems was not 
insignificant. That is costly to one or both of the companies involved.

Another best practice is not aligning the bottoms of text boxes in graphics at 
the edge of the anchored frame. This makes it extremely difficult to see that 
that text has overflowed since the overflow line at the bottom of the text box 
will be hidden by the presence of the edge of the anchored frame.

Craig

Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:04:21 +0200
From: i...@heiko-haida.de
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?



Hi Stephen,

well, I have been working for translation companies for more than 15 years 
(DTP). There are two ways to handle this:

a) mif files are supplied for translation, mif files are returned (no dtp 
involved). This is best if you can handle all dtp yourself.
It is necessary to know which mif version (which FM version) is used, that is 
most important.

b) Frame files are supplied and a dtp step is involved for preparation. 
In this case, it is preferable to have all details about the layout and design 
rules communicated. Fonts should be supplied, graphics should be supplied (they 
might also contain text btw). 
If you want to get the translations back fully layouted (or get PDFs ready to 
publish), you should make sure that your source files are accurate in the way 
the layouts are set and formats and typography are used, so that no one has to 
guess what was originally intended.

As you can see, b) may need a lot of communication, preparation and data 
transfer in both directions. It may of course be useful, but it only makes 
sense if there is a certain (recurring) amount of text to be translated, or if 
languages are involved where you can not provide the proper typesetting 
yourself.

Regards - Tino H. Haida, Berlin

 

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RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-22 Thread Heiko Haida
 

Hi Stephen, 

well, I have been working for translation companies for more than 15
years (DTP). There are two ways to handle this: 

a) mif files are supplied for translation, mif files are returned (no
dtp involved). This is best if you can handle all dtp yourself.
It is necessary to know which mif version (which FM version) is used,
that is most important. 

b) Frame files are supplied and a dtp step is involved for preparation. 
In this case, it is preferable to have all details about the layout and
design rules communicated. Fonts should be supplied, graphics should be
supplied (they might also contain text btw). 
If you want to get the translations back fully layouted (or get PDFs
ready to publish), you should make sure that your source files are
accurate in the way the layouts are set and formats and typography are
used, so that no one has to guess what was originally intended. 

As you can see, b) may need a lot of communication, preparation and data
transfer in both directions. It may of course be useful, but it only
makes sense if there is a certain (recurring) amount of text to be
translated, or if languages are involved where you can not provide the
proper typesetting yourself. 

Regards - Tino H. Haida, Berlin 

Craig, Alison: 

 Stephen: 
 
 For the past 8 years, I've managed a significant number of translation 
 projects and I've never heard of the customer having to provide MIF files to 
 a translation bureau. 
 
 Are they also returning the files to you in MIF format? If so, this means the 
 translation bureau has not opened and tested the finished Frame files - an 
 important step in a properly run translation project. 
 
 Can I ask who your translation bureau is? I can recommend a couple that do 
 excellent work and are very competitive on pricing. 
 
 Alison 
 
 ALISON CRAIG | TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION LEAD 
 
 Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC V6V 2K9 | 
 analogicultrasound.com [3] 
 
 T 604-279-8550 EXT 127 | F 604-279-8559 
 
 FROM: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] ON BEHALF OF Stephen O'Brien
 SENT: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:03 AM
 TO: Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)
 SUBJECT: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format? 
 
 Hi, 
 
 (FM9, Windows 7) 
 
 I have a book of 40 files, graphics imported by reference; no text insets. 
 
 The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am 
 surprised that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this 
 normal? 
 
 I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
 process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
 files remain linked by reference. 
 
 Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very 
 soon. Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?). 
 
 Have a good day, 
 
 STEPHEN O'BRIEN
 Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | 
 Documentation Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
 InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
 sobr...@innovmetric.com
 T (1) 418.688.2061
 F (1) 418.688.3001
 [4] 
 
 AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
 renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement à InnovMetric 
 Logiciels inc. ou à ses filiales. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire indiqué 
 dans ce message (ou responsable de livrer ce message à la personne indiquée 
 ou prévue) ou si vous pensez que ce message vous a été adressé par erreur, 
 vous ne pouvez pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer à 
 quelqu'un d'autre. Dans ce cas, veuillez le retourner à l'expéditeur et le 
 détruire. Proprietary confidential information belonging to InnovMetric 
 Software Inc. and its affiliates may be contained in this message. If you are 
 not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for 
 delivering this message to such a person), or you think for any reason that 
 this message may have been addressed to you by mistake, you may not use or 
 copy this message, or deliver it to anyone else. In which case, notify the 
 sende
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destroy the e-mail. 
 
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Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-22 Thread Craig, Alison
Actually, my experience is a mix Tino?s 2 scenarios. I supply Frame files and 
receive them back ? then I do all the DTP (in a maximum of 17 languages).

Having the translation bureau start and end with Frame files ensures that any 
errors in the returned files (technical errors, not translation errors) are the 
responsibility of the translation bureau. As they know they have working Frame 
files at the start of the process, they have to take responsibility for 
returning working Frame files when the job is done.

We pay for 3-5 hours DTP for this part of the service ($150 ? $250). As our 
total job price often runs between $5,000 and $15,000, this is a minuscule 
price to pay to ensure we have working files.

Alison


Alison Craig | Technical Documentation Lead
Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC  V6V 2K9 | 
analogicultrasound.com<http://www.analogicultrasound.com>
T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Heiko Haida
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 4:04 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?


Hi Stephen,

well, I have been working for translation companies for more than 15 years 
(DTP). There are two ways to handle this:

a) mif files are supplied for translation, mif files are returned (no dtp 
involved). This is best if you can handle all dtp yourself.
It is necessary to know which mif version (which FM version) is used, that is 
most important.

b) Frame files are supplied and a dtp step is involved for preparation.
In this case, it is preferable to have all details about the layout and design 
rules communicated. Fonts should be supplied, graphics should be supplied (they 
might also contain text btw).
If you want to get the translations back fully layouted (or get PDFs ready to 
publish), you should make sure that your source files are accurate in the way 
the layouts are set and formats and typography are used, so that no one has to 
guess what was originally intended.

As you can see, b) may need a lot of communication, preparation and data 
transfer in both directions. It may of course be useful, but it only makes 
sense if there is a certain (recurring) amount of text to be translated, or if 
languages are involved where you can not provide the proper typesetting 
yourself.

Regards - Tino H. Haida, Berlin



Craig, Alison:
Stephen:
For the past 8 years, I?ve managed a significant number of translation projects 
and I?ve never heard of the customer having to provide MIF files to a 
translation bureau.
Are they also returning the files to you in MIF format? If so, this means the 
translation bureau has not opened and tested the finished Frame files ? an 
important step in a properly run translation project.
Can I ask who your translation bureau is? I can recommend a couple that do 
excellent work and are very competitive on pricing.
Alison
Alison Craig | Technical Documentation Lead
Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC  V6V 2K9 | 
analogicultrasound.com<http://www.analogicultrasound.com>
T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Stephen O'Brien
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:03 AM
To: Frame Users (framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at 
lists.frameusers.com>)
Subject: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

Hi,

(FM9, Windows 7)

I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.

The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?

I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files remain linked by reference.

Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).

Have a good day,

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur ? la documentation et r?dacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
sobrien at innovmetric.com<mailto:sobrien at innovmetric.com>
T (1) 418.688.2061
F (1) 418.688.3001
[X]<http://www.innovmetric.com/>
AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALIT?/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement ? InnovMetric Logiciels 
inc. ou ? ses filiales. Si vous n??tes pas le destinataire indiqu? dans ce 
message (ou responsable de livrer ce message ? la personne indiqu?e ou pr?vue) 
ou si vous pensez que ce message vous a ?t? adress? par erreur, vous ne pouvez 
pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer ? quelqu?un d?autre. Dans 
ce cas, veuillez le retourner ? l?exp?diteur et le

Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-20 Thread Stephen O'Brien
Hi,

(FM9, Windows 7)

I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.

The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?

I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files remain linked by reference.

Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).

Have a good day,

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
sobr...@innovmetric.commailto:sobr...@innovmetric.com
T (1) 418.688.2061
F (1) 418.688.3001
[cid:image001.gif@01CF740A.4C343AA0]http://www.innovmetric.com/
AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement à InnovMetric Logiciels 
inc. ou à ses filiales. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire indiqué dans ce 
message (ou responsable de livrer ce message à la personne indiquée ou prévue) 
ou si vous pensez que ce message vous a été adressé par erreur, vous ne pouvez 
pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer à quelqu'un d'autre. Dans 
ce cas, veuillez le retourner à l'expéditeur et le détruire. Proprietary 
confidential information belonging to InnovMetric Software Inc. and its 
affiliates may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient 
indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivering this 
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have been addressed to you by mistake, you may not use or copy this message, or 
deliver it to anyone else. In which case, notify the sender and destroy the 
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RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-20 Thread Jeff Coatsworth
From what I've read, most translation agencies will take your FM files and 
save them as MIF for you. But saving as MIF isn't onerous - there is a Book 
MIF plug-in script, but I don't think it was for FM9. You can always use 
MIF2Go as a more powerful alternative.

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien
Sent: May-20-14 9:03 AM
To: Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)
Subject: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

Hi,

(FM9, Windows 7)

I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.

The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?

I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files remain linked by reference.

Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).

Have a good day,

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
sobr...@innovmetric.commailto:sobr...@innovmetric.com
T (1) 418.688.2061
F (1) 418.688.3001
[cid:image001.gif@01CF740B.D488A160]http://www.innovmetric.com/
AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement à InnovMetric Logiciels 
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message (ou responsable de livrer ce message à la personne indiquée ou prévue) 
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pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer à quelqu'un d'autre. Dans 
ce cas, veuillez le retourner à l'expéditeur et le détruire. Proprietary 
confidential information belonging to InnovMetric Software Inc. and its 
affiliates may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient 
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RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-20 Thread Reng, Dr. Winfried
Hi Stephen,

All translation memory systems (such as Trados) can import only
FrameMaker MIF files. Only if the translation agency offers DTP services,
they could convert binary FrameMaker files to MIF themselves.

You can export all files of a book individually. Or you can do this
with one of these solutions (there are definitely more):

Mif2Go (works also with the demo version)
http://mif2go.com/

Plugin from Cudspan
http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2012-September/026727.html
http://www.cudspan.net/plugins/

itl FrameScript
http://www.i-frame.itl.info/en/feature-description/i-frame-modules/translation-pack/convert-fm-to-mif-mif-to-fm.html


Trados does not support FrameMaker 12 yet. However, it seems that it
is supported with the next Trados update:
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/265040-framemaker_12_filter.html

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 3:03 PM
To: Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)
Subject: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

Hi,

(FM9, Windows 7)

I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.

The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?

I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files remain linked by reference.

Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).

Have a good day,

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
sobr...@innovmetric.commailto:sobr...@innovmetric.com
T (1) 418.688.2061
F (1) 418.688.3001
[cid:image001.gif@01CF743E.19A67F10]http://www.innovmetric.com/
AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement à InnovMetric Logiciels 
inc. ou à ses filiales. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire indiqué dans ce 
message (ou responsable de livrer ce message à la personne indiquée ou prévue) 
ou si vous pensez que ce message vous a été adressé par erreur, vous ne pouvez 
pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer à quelqu'un d'autre. Dans 
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confidential information belonging to InnovMetric Software Inc. and its 
affiliates may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient 
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have been addressed to you by mistake, you may not use or copy this message, or 
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RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-20 Thread Craig, Alison
Stephen:

For the past 8 years, I've managed a significant number of translation projects 
and I've never heard of the customer having to provide MIF files to a 
translation bureau.

Are they also returning the files to you in MIF format? If so, this means the 
translation bureau has not opened and tested the finished Frame files - an 
important step in a properly run translation project.

Can I ask who your translation bureau is? I can recommend a couple that do 
excellent work and are very competitive on pricing.

Alison


Alison Craig | Technical Documentation Lead
Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC  V6V 2K9 | 
analogicultrasound.comhttp://www.analogicultrasound.com
T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:03 AM
To: Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)
Subject: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

Hi,

(FM9, Windows 7)

I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.

The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?

I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files remain linked by reference.

Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).

Have a good day,

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
InnovMetric Logiciels | Software
sobr...@innovmetric.commailto:sobr...@innovmetric.com
T (1) 418.688.2061
F (1) 418.688.3001
[cid:image001.gif@01CF7427.BF178550]http://www.innovmetric.com/
AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ/CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Ce message peut contenir des 
renseignements confidentiels appartenant exclusivement à InnovMetric Logiciels 
inc. ou à ses filiales. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire indiqué dans ce 
message (ou responsable de livrer ce message à la personne indiquée ou prévue) 
ou si vous pensez que ce message vous a été adressé par erreur, vous ne pouvez 
pas utiliser ou reproduire ce message, ni le livrer à quelqu'un d'autre. Dans 
ce cas, veuillez le retourner à l'expéditeur et le détruire. Proprietary 
confidential information belonging to InnovMetric Software Inc. and its 
affiliates may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient 
indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivering this 
message to such a person), or you think for any reason that this message may 
have been addressed to you by mistake, you may not use or copy this message, or 
deliver it to anyone else. In which case, notify the sender and destroy the 
e-mail.

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RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?

2014-05-20 Thread Craig Ede



Most translation companies have the FM software and saveAs MIF themselves.  And 
as Alison says, they then return them as FM files that have been adjusted via 
DTP services that take care of overflows and other problems created as a result 
the translation process.

Processing a FM binary for translation would be pretty tough, I submit.

Craig

From: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
To: sobr...@innovmetric.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 19:33:48 +











Stephen:
 
For the past 8 years, I’ve managed a significant number of translation projects 
and I’ve never
 heard of the customer having to provide MIF files to a translation bureau.
 
Are they also returning the files to you in MIF format? If so, this means the 
translation bureau
 has not opened and tested the finished Frame files – an important step in a 
properly run translation project.
 
Can I ask who your translation bureau is? I can recommend a couple that do 
excellent work and
 are very competitive on pricing.
 
Alison
 
 

Alison Craig | Technical Documentation
 Lead 
Ultrasonix
 | 130-4311 Viking Way
|
Richmond, BC 
V6V 2K9 | analogicultrasound.com

T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559


 


From:
 framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:03 AM

To: Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)

Subject: Trados and FM9 : Company requests files in MIF format?


 
Hi,
 
(FM9, Windows 7)
 
I have a book of 40 files, graphics  imported by reference; no text insets.
 
The translation company want me to provide files in MIF format. I am surprised 
that Trados does not accept the files in .FM format. Is this normal?
 
I have never created MIF files before. At least, it seems like a long manual 
process. Is there a plug-in that does a complete book? I imagine the graphic 
files
 remain linked by reference.
 
Any comments are much appreciated. BTW, we plan to upgrade to FM 12 very soon. 
Would that help (not have to convert to MIF?).
 
Have a good day,
 

Stephen O'BRIEN

Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer

InnovMetric Logiciels | Software

sobr...@innovmetric.com

T (1) 418.688.2061

F (1) 418.688.3001



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