Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:50:58 -0400, Art Campbell wrote: >I think it's safe to volunteer the Tech Comm Suite User's group for >job postings (http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users), but it's much >smaller and newer than Framers. Also, the FreeFramer's Mailing list >accepts them, I think (Jeremy?). Yes, absolutely! And I see no reason to restrict "I'm available" posts either, here or on FreeFramers. Just use discretion; don't repost at short intervals (less than two weeks, say). >I'd follow the KISS principle and post job stuff here too, and we'll >see if anyone at the list controls objects. I doubt if they will. If there is a need for a separate list, though, I'd be happy to host it. The trouble is, it could wind up with all job seekers, no job offers... which would be depressing... ;-) Anyone who wants to sign on to FreeFramers can do so at: http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/list/framers HTH! -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:50:58 -0400, Art Campbell wrote: >I think it's safe to volunteer the Tech Comm Suite User's group for >job postings (http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users), but it's much >smaller and newer than Framers. Also, the FreeFramer's Mailing list >accepts them, I think (Jeremy?). Yes, absolutely! And I see no reason to restrict "I'm available" posts either, here or on FreeFramers. Just use discretion; don't repost at short intervals (less than two weeks, say). >I'd follow the KISS principle and post job stuff here too, and we'll >see if anyone at the list controls objects. I doubt if they will. If there is a need for a separate list, though, I'd be happy to host it. The trouble is, it could wind up with all job seekers, no job offers... which would be depressing... ;-) Anyone who wants to sign on to FreeFramers can do so at: http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/list/framers HTH! -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. http://www.omsys.com/
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
If you create a spinoff list, you reduce the chances that employers will actually know about it and/or post there. I highly recommend allowing posting of available jobs on the main list. Perhaps a spinoff could be for job-seeking discussion? Sarah -- Sarah O'Keefe okeefe at scriptorium.com On Mar 20, 2009, at 8:38 AM, mulholland4 wrote: > Hi Art, Yes I agree, the use of [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the > subject line > would provide an instant filter for those of us not interested in > the topic. > And, the restriction on asking for work is a good one too. As you > say, lets > see what the list owners say. Maybe we could have a spinoff list for > this > specific topic? > Mulholland > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Art Campbell > wrote: > >> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to >> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >> >> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >> >> Cheers, >> Art >> >> Art Campbell >> art.campbell at gmail.com >> "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 >> Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson >> No disclaimers >> apply. >> DoD 358 >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 >> wrote: >>> Hello John and Valerie, >>> Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional >>> economic >>> circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job >>> site, it is >>> perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame >> related >>> issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or >>> information >>> regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by >> many. >>> Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. >>> Mulholland >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato >> wrote: >>> >>>> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a >>>> requirement for a >>>> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a >>>> really bad >> fit >>>> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. >>>> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to >>>> discuss if >>>> anyone feels differently. >>>> >>>> john >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie >>>> Lipow >>>> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM >>>> To: Framers >>>> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone >>>> care to >>>> calibrate me offline? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Valerie Lipow >>>> vallipow at gmail.com >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. >>>> >>>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >>>> or visit >>>> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com >>>> >>>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >>>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholland4 at gmail.com. >>>> >>>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >>>> or visit >>>> >>
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
If you create a spinoff list, you reduce the chances that employers will actually know about it and/or post there. I highly recommend allowing posting of available jobs on the main list. Perhaps a spinoff could be for job-seeking discussion? Sarah -- Sarah O'Keefe oke...@scriptorium.com On Mar 20, 2009, at 8:38 AM, mulholland4 wrote: > Hi Art, Yes I agree, the use of [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the > subject line > would provide an instant filter for those of us not interested in > the topic. > And, the restriction on asking for work is a good one too. As you > say, lets > see what the list owners say. Maybe we could have a spinoff list for > this > specific topic? > Mulholland > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Art Campbell > wrote: > >> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to >> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >> >> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >> >> Cheers, >> Art >> >> Art Campbell >> art.campb...@gmail.com >> "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 >> Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson >> No disclaimers >> apply. >> DoD 358 >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 >> wrote: >>> Hello John and Valerie, >>> Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional >>> economic >>> circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job >>> site, it is >>> perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame >> related >>> issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or >>> information >>> regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by >> many. >>> Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. >>> Mulholland >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato >> wrote: >>> >>>> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a >>>> requirement for a >>>> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a >>>> really bad >> fit >>>> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. >>>> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to >>>> discuss if >>>> anyone feels differently. >>>> >>>> john >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie >>>> Lipow >>>> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM >>>> To: Framers >>>> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone >>>> care to >>>> calibrate me offline? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Valerie Lipow >>>> valli...@gmail.com >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. >>>> >>>> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com >>>> or visit >>>> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com >>>> >>>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit >>>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholla...@gmail.com. >>>> >>>> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>>> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com >>>> or visit >>>> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/o
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I think it's safe to volunteer the Tech Comm Suite User's group for job postings (http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users), but it's much smaller and newer than Framers. Also, the FreeFramer's Mailing list accepts them, I think (Jeremy?). I'd follow the KISS principle and post job stuff here too, and we'll see if anyone at the list controls objects. Art Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I think that in general, the moderator is kind of asleep at the > wheel... given the 2-3 week period last year when the list server > crashed and no one noticed. ;- ?) > > May have changed, of course, but > > Art > > Art Campbell > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? art.campbell at gmail.com > ?"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?No disclaimers apply. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Jerilynne Knight > wrote: >> I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what >> can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it >> would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject >> line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those >> who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note >> from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have >> missed the notice! >> >> Blessings to all >> Jerilynne >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell >> wrote: >>> >>> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >>> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >>> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, ?to >>> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >>> >>> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >>> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >>> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Art >>> >> >> >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I think that in general, the moderator is kind of asleep at the wheel... given the 2-3 week period last year when the list server crashed and no one noticed. ;- ) May have changed, of course, but Art Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Jerilynne Knight wrote: > I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what > can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it > would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject > line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those > who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note > from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have > missed the notice! > > Blessings to all > Jerilynne > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell > wrote: >> >> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, ?to >> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >> >> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >> >> Cheers, >> Art >> > >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Hi Art, Yes I agree, the use of [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line would provide an instant filter for those of us not interested in the topic. And, the restriction on asking for work is a good one too. As you say, lets see what the list owners say. Maybe we could have a spinoff list for this specific topic? Mulholland On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > > Art Campbell > art.campbell at gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 > wrote: > > Hello John and Valerie, > > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic > > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is > > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame > related > > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information > > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by > many. > > Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > > Mulholland > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato >wrote: > > > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a > >> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad > fit > >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. > >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if > >> anyone feels differently. > >> > >> john > >> > >> > >> > >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow > >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > >> To: Framers > >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > >> > >> > >> > >> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to > >> calibrate me offline? > >> > >> -- > >> Valerie Lipow > >> vallipow at gmail.com > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholland4 at gmail.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >> > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholland4 at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. Cheers, Art Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 wrote: > Hello John and Valerie, > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame related > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by many. > ?Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > Mulholland > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato imprivata.com>wrote: > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a >> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if >> anyone feels differently. >> >> john >> >> ________ >> >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM >> To: Framers >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? >> >> >> >> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to >> calibrate me offline? >> >> -- >> Valerie Lipow >> vallipow at gmail.com >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholland4 at gmail.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Hello John and Valerie, Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame related issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by many. Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. Mulholland On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato wrote: > IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a > good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit > for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. > I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if > anyone feels differently. > > john > > > > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow > Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > To: Framers > Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > > > > I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to > calibrate me offline? > > -- > Valerie Lipow > vallipow at gmail.com > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholland4 at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have missed the notice! Blessings to all Jerilynne On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if anyone feels differently. john From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM To: Framers Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to calibrate me offline? -- Valerie Lipow vallipow at gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I think it's safe to volunteer the Tech Comm Suite User's group for job postings (http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users), but it's much smaller and newer than Framers. Also, the FreeFramer's Mailing list accepts them, I think (Jeremy?). I'd follow the KISS principle and post job stuff here too, and we'll see if anyone at the list controls objects. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I think that in general, the moderator is kind of asleep at the > wheel... given the 2-3 week period last year when the list server > crashed and no one noticed. ;- ) > > May have changed, of course, but > > Art > > Art Campbell > art.campb...@gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Jerilynne Knight > wrote: >> I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what >> can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it >> would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject >> line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those >> who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note >> from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have >> missed the notice! >> >> Blessings to all >> Jerilynne >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell >> wrote: >>> >>> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >>> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >>> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to >>> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >>> >>> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >>> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >>> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Art >>> >> >> > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Framers Seems like it is an appropriate time for a SpinOff [JOBS] list... This economic storm is going to be with us awhile, therefore, I suggest we'll share a lot of interest in a Spin Off List... peter --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Art Campbell wrote: > From: Art Campbell > Subject: Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > To: "Framers" > Cc: valli...@aol.com, "John Sgammato" > Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 9:28 AM > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd > encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd > also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than > offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying > attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company > also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > > Art Campbell >art.campb...@gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this > world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No > disclaimers apply. > >DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 > wrote: > > Hello John and Valerie, > > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the > exceptional economic > > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to > become a job site, it is > > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to > discuss our Frame related > > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful > links or information > > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be > appreciated by many. > > Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > > Mulholland > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato > wrote: > > > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is > often a requirement for a > >> good job, and a job that does not require > FrameMaker may be a really bad fit > >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long > time. > >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good > subject to discuss if > >> anyone feels differently. > >> > >> john > >> > >> > >> > >> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on > behalf of Valerie Lipow > >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > >> To: Framers > >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > >> > >> > >> > >> I don't know if this is appropriate or > effective. Would anyone care to > >> calibrate me offline? > >> > >> -- > >> Valerie Lipow > >> valli...@gmail.com > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > jsgamm...@imprivata.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to > fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to > listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > mulholla...@gmail.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to > fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to > listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > >> > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > art.campb...@gmail.com. > > > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com >
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Framers Seems like it is an appropriate time for a SpinOff [JOBS] list... This economic storm is going to be with us awhile, therefore, I suggest we'll share a lot of interest in a Spin Off List... peter --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Art Campbell wrote: > From: Art Campbell > Subject: Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > To: "Framers" > Cc: vallipow at aol.com, "John Sgammato" > Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 9:28 AM > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd > encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd > also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than > offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying > attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company > also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > > Art Campbell >art.campbell at gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this > world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No > disclaimers apply. > >DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 > wrote: > > Hello John and Valerie, > > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the > exceptional economic > > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to > become a job site, it is > > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to > discuss our Frame related > > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful > links or information > > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be > appreciated by many. > > ?Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > > Mulholland > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato > wrote: > > > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is > often a requirement for a > >> good job, and a job that does not require > FrameMaker may be a really bad fit > >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long > time. > >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good > subject to discuss if > >> anyone feels differently. > >> > >> john > >> > >> > >> > >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com on > behalf of Valerie Lipow > >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > >> To: Framers > >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > >> > >> > >> > >> I don't know if this is appropriate or > effective. Would anyone care to > >> calibrate me offline? > >> > >> -- > >> Valerie Lipow > >> vallipow at gmail.com > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > jsgammato at imprivata.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to > framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as > mulholland4 at gmail.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to > framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > >> > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > art.campbell at gmail.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > > > Send administrative questions to > listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as > neat_gent at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/neat_gent%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I think that in general, the moderator is kind of asleep at the wheel... given the 2-3 week period last year when the list server crashed and no one noticed. ;- ) May have changed, of course, but Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Jerilynne Knight wrote: > I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what > can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it > would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject > line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those > who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note > from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have > missed the notice! > > Blessings to all > Jerilynne > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell > wrote: >> >> I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to >> use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the >> line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to >> cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. >> >> We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job >> postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns >> and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. >> >> Cheers, >> Art >> > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Hi Art, Yes I agree, the use of [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line would provide an instant filter for those of us not interested in the topic. And, the restriction on asking for work is a good one too. As you say, lets see what the list owners say. Maybe we could have a spinoff list for this specific topic? Mulholland On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > > Art Campbell > art.campb...@gmail.com > "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 > Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson > No disclaimers apply. > DoD 358 > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 > wrote: > > Hello John and Valerie, > > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic > > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is > > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame > related > > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information > > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by > many. > > Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > > Mulholland > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato >wrote: > > > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a > >> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad > fit > >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. > >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if > >> anyone feels differently. > >> > >> john > >> > >> > >> > >> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow > >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > >> To: Framers > >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > >> > >> > >> > >> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to > >> calibrate me offline? > >> > >> -- > >> Valerie Lipow > >> valli...@gmail.com > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholla...@gmail.com. > >> > >> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > >> or visit > >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > >> > >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >> > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. > > > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > >
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I'm great with postings or folks available...in my opinion, who knows what can come from this great place full of helpful people. I, too, think it would be a great courtesy to put "JOB" or something similar in the subject line. I've noticed there have been job postings in the past and also those who have said they were available (including me) and don't recall a note from the moderator. Of course, the rules could change and I could have missed the notice! Blessings to all Jerilynne On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Art Campbell wrote: > I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to > use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the > line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to > cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. > > We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job > postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns > and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. > > Cheers, > Art > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I agree that it's an appropriate topic, but I'd encourage people to use [OT] or [JOB] prefixes in the subject line. And I'd also draw the line at posting if you're available rather than offering a job, to cut down on the volume of posts, but that's just me. We'll see if the list owners/moderator is paying attention... Job postings are prohibited on the TWRL list that this company also owns and operates, unless you provide some cash for an ad. Cheers, Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:08 AM, mulholland4 wrote: > Hello John and Valerie, > Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic > circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is > perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame related > issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information > regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by many. > Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. > Mulholland > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato wrote: > >> IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a >> good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit >> for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. >> I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if >> anyone feels differently. >> >> john >> >> ________ >> >> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow >> Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM >> To: Framers >> Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? >> >> >> >> I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to >> calibrate me offline? >> >> -- >> Valerie Lipow >> valli...@gmail.com >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. >> >> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholla...@gmail.com. >> >> Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
Hello John and Valerie, Yes, I think this an appropriate place given the exceptional economic circumstances. While we don't want this forum to become a job site, it is perhaps the only common venue many of us have to discuss our Frame related issues, especially for lone writers. So any useful links or information regarding Framemaker and related writing jobs will be appreciated by many. Good topic Valerie, thanks for bringing it up. Mulholland On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:06 AM, John Sgammato wrote: > IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a > good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit > for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. > I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if > anyone feels differently. > > john > > > > From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow > Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM > To: Framers > Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? > > > > I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to > calibrate me offline? > > -- > Valerie Lipow > valli...@gmail.com > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as mulholla...@gmail.com. > > Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mulholland4%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
IMO it is perfectly appropriate. FrameMaker is often a requirement for a good job, and a job that does not require FrameMaker may be a really bad fit for a writer who has used FrameMaker for a long time. I Replied to All because I think this is a good subject to discuss if anyone feels differently. john From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Valerie Lipow Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 1:02 AM To: Framers Subject: Using Framers to network for job-hunting? I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to calibrate me offline? -- Valerie Lipow valli...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to calibrate me offline? -- Valerie Lipow valli...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Using Framers to network for job-hunting?
I don't know if this is appropriate or effective. Would anyone care to calibrate me offline? -- Valerie Lipow vallipow at gmail.com
