Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers

Natalie Bircher wrote:
Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 




In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking 
to patrons with ill-formed questions:


Could you please be a little more vague?

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context, 
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows 
what the heck you are talking about.


thanks,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)

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RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Gagne, Bernard (Bolton)
Just a shot in the dark here, but were your page and column breaks
applied via manual overrides (using SpecialPage Break), and did you
recently re-import your document formats? If so, you blew them away by
re-importing the template.
Manual overrides are rarely the way to go if you want any kind of
formatting consistency. You need to create paragraph tags with the
column break and page break built-in.

Berny Gagne
Lead Writer
Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Bolton, Ontario, Canada


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Stuart Rogers
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
 Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

Could you please be a little more vague?

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)
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RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Combs, Richard
Natalie Bircher wrote:
 
 Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 

Kinda depends on how they were created (it never hurts to describe the
situation in a bit more detail, including software version, etc.). 

IIRC, there's a Page Break menu item (I don't have it because I've
disabled all ad hoc formatting controls) that creates breaks by applying
overrides to pgf formats. If you subsequently import formats to the
document (from another doc or itself), you can optionally (and perhaps
unintentionally) remove those overrides. 

Or, if the breaks came from pgf format definitions (Start or Keep With
settings, etc.), maybe importing formats or making changes in Paragraph
Designer and choosing Update All removed the relevant settings. 

In my template, the pgf definitions (Start, Keep With, and Widow/Orphan
settings) take care of 98% of page breaks without any manual
intervention. For the occasional awkward exception, I use a small
PageBreak pgf set to 600 pt. Space Below. I find that easier to manage,
search for, etc., than pgf overrides. And it suits my compulsive need to
avoid overrides. :-) 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Natalie Bircher
Stuart!!
Where do you get off busting my chops? 

You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my question
with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM version
to answer this question. 

Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.

You would do better to keep to yourself.

Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
 Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking 
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

Could you please be a little more vague?

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context, 
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows 
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)

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Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Rick Quatro
In fairness to Stuart (his tone notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to 
answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either. Also, if 
you did receive satisfactory answers from others, please share them with the 
list. Thanks.


Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com



Stuart!!
Where do you get off busting my chops?

You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my 
question
with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM 
version

to answer this question.

Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.

You would do better to keep to yourself.

Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:

Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks?




In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

Could you please be a little more vague?

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little
better.)



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Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Peter Gold
On 10/4/07, Rick Quatro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In fairness to Stuart (his tone notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to
 answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either.

Same here.

The context you provide helps those list volunteers who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Peter
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KnowHow ProServices
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Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Art Campbell
Ditto. Stuart's comment was fair; you can't help much if you don't
know the context.
I was sorely tempted to hit Reply to the OP and just say yes.

Art

On 10/4/07, Rick Quatro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In fairness to Stuart (his tone notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to
 answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either. Also, if
 you did receive satisfactory answers from others, please share them with the
 list. Thanks.

 Rick Quatro
 Carmen Publishing
 585-659-8267
 www.frameexpert.com


  Stuart!!
  Where do you get off busting my chops?
 
  You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my
  question
  with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM
  version
  to answer this question.
 
  Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
 
  You would do better to keep to yourself.
 
  Natalie
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
  Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?
 
  Natalie Bircher wrote:
  Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks?
 
 
 
  In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
  to patrons with ill-formed questions:
 
  Could you please be a little more vague?
 
  Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
  lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
  what the heck you are talking about.
 
  thanks,
 
  --
  Stuart Rogers
  Technical Communicator
  Phoenix Geophysics Limited
  Toronto, ON, Canada
  +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
 

-- 
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
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RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Combs, Richard
Natalie Bircher wrote:
 
 Stuart!!
 Where do you get off busting my chops? 
 
 You apparently need more help than the others that have 
 answered my question with the information I gave. I didn't 
 need to give them my OS or FM version to answer this question. 
 
 Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
 
 You would do better to keep to yourself.

My answer to your question was based on pure guesswork and included a
parenthetical note that more info would help. Berny called his response
a shot in the dark. 

I think Stuart's recommendation that you explain yourself more clearly
was dead on, and it was politely phrased, not arrogant. (I don't
understand at all what you mean by self-serving -- even if you thought
he was rude, how is it self-serving?)

I suspect that your angry outburst has had this result: in the future
when you ask a question, many of us will remember your admonition, You
would do better to keep to yourself -- and will do so. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Natalie Bircher
First, I apologize for my knee-jerk response...to Stuart and all of you.

I really, truly had no idea what type of information you would need to
answer such a question. A polite request for that information would have
been appropriate, and appreciated.



-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
 Stuart!!
 Where do you get off busting my chops? 
 
 You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my
question
 with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM
version
 to answer this question. 
 
 Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
 
 You would do better to keep to yourself.
 
 Natalie
 

My apologies, Natalie; I did not mean to offend.  Obviously I should 
have sprinkled the posting liberally with winking emoticons, as the 
intended friendly jibe apparently didn't make it through cyberspace.

I admit it is a pet peeve of mine that so often people who are 
supposedly professional communicators post (on this and other lists) 
questions that border on the insulting, they are so haphazardly and 
carelessly formed.  Surely our peers deserve a little more effort on the 
part of the questioners, out of simple respect (and self-respect).

If you didn't know what was causing your problem, how did you know that 
no-one would need your OS and version information to solve it?  Have you 
never encountered version- or platform-specific bugs?  It is 
long-established netiquette to include such basic information as a 
matter of course, though you are not by any means alone in omitting it.

I am happy that the psychics on this list were able to identify the 
cause of your problem so quickly.  Please do share the solution.  I 
promise to keep to myself in regard to any future postings from you.

(And thank you, Peter, Rick, Kelly, Richard, and Art, for your 
supportive remarks.)


-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)

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Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers

Natalie Bircher wrote:

First, I apologize for my knee-jerk response...to Stuart and all of you.


Oh all right then, since we've both apologized, I won't keep to myself 
after all.  (We're in the middle of an election campaign in Ontario, so 
making promises that won't be kept is the sport-du-jour anyway ;-)


I accept your apology.



I really, truly had no idea what type of information you would need to
answer such a question. A polite request for that information would have
been appropriate, and appreciated.


Well, for hints on how to pose future questions, I suggest you just have 
a look through the archives, or simply read the posts from others that 
will appear in the interim.  The ones that got or will get the fastest, 
most accurate responses are good examples of well-described situations 
and clearly stated problems.


People tell us what their layout is (side-heads or no, multiple master 
pages or no, etc.), what the problem page consists of (a big table that 
continues overleaf), what happened immediately before the problem 
occurred (updated the book, imported a text inset, re-opened a file 
saved on a server, etc.), and any other details that make the situation 
unusual (or not).  And of course, as I mentioned before, your OS and FM 
version are important because in many cases the answer is dead simple: 
such-and-such a version of FM for Windoze has a known bug, and here's 
the work-around.


For your own situation, you might have told us about your page layout 
(number of columns, feathered/balanced, proximity to straddling 
paragraphs), whether the problem occurred on every page/column or just 
in certain circumstances, the characteristics of the tags on affected 
paragraphs, how the breaks were applied in the first place, what you did 
that seemed to cause them to fail, and so on.  Think about how you quiz 
your SMEs when you're researching for your documentation, and you will 
have put yourself in the shoes of framers who need information from you 
in order to help.  Too much information is better than too little, and 
much better than none.


Best regards,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)

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Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers

Natalie Bircher wrote:

Stuart!!
Where do you get off busting my chops? 


You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my question
with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM version
to answer this question. 


Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.

You would do better to keep to yourself.

Natalie



My apologies, Natalie; I did not mean to offend.  Obviously I should 
have sprinkled the posting liberally with winking emoticons, as the 
intended friendly jibe apparently didn't make it through cyberspace.


I admit it is a pet peeve of mine that so often people who are 
supposedly professional communicators post (on this and other lists) 
questions that border on the insulting, they are so haphazardly and 
carelessly formed.  Surely our peers deserve a little more effort on the 
part of the questioners, out of simple respect (and self-respect).


If you didn't know what was causing your problem, how did you know that 
no-one would need your OS and version information to solve it?  Have you 
never encountered version- or platform-specific bugs?  It is 
long-established netiquette to include such basic information as a 
matter of course, though you are not by any means alone in omitting it.


I am happy that the psychics on this list were able to identify the 
cause of your problem so quickly.  Please do share the solution.  I 
promise to keep to myself in regard to any future postings from you.


(And thank you, Peter, Rick, Kelly, Richard, and Art, for your 
supportive remarks.)



--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

On the contrary.
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he seemed a little 
better.)

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Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Natalie Bircher
Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 



Natalie Bircher

Technical Writer

BackStreet Media

Phone: 320-843-4337 

Fax: 320-842-4236

Email:   natalieb at backstreetmedia.com






Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers
Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
> 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking 
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

"Could you please be a little more vague?"

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context, 
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows 
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")



Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Gagne, Bernard (Bolton)
Just a shot in the dark here, but were your page and column breaks
applied via manual overrides (using Special>Page Break), and did you
recently re-import your document formats? If so, you blew them away by
re-importing the template.
Manual overrides are rarely the way to go if you want any kind of
formatting consistency. You need to create paragraph tags with the
column break and page break built-in.

Berny Gagne
Lead Writer
Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Bolton, Ontario, Canada


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+bgagne=husky...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+bgagne=husky.ca at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of Stuart Rogers
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:53 AM
To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
> 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

"Could you please be a little more vague?"

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")
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Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Combs, Richard
Natalie Bircher wrote:

> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 

Kinda depends on how they were created (it never hurts to describe the
situation in a bit more detail, including software version, etc.). 

IIRC, there's a Page Break menu item (I don't have it because I've
disabled all ad hoc formatting controls) that creates breaks by applying
overrides to pgf formats. If you subsequently import formats to the
document (from another doc or itself), you can optionally (and perhaps
unintentionally) remove those overrides. 

Or, if the breaks came from pgf format definitions (Start or Keep With
settings, etc.), maybe importing formats or making changes in Paragraph
Designer and choosing Update All removed the relevant settings. 

In my template, the pgf definitions (Start, Keep With, and Widow/Orphan
settings) take care of 98% of page breaks without any manual
intervention. For the occasional awkward exception, I use a small
PageBreak pgf set to 600 pt. Space Below. I find that easier to manage,
search for, etc., than pgf overrides. And it suits my compulsive need to
avoid overrides. :-) 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--







Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Natalie Bircher
Stuart!!
Where do you get off busting my chops? 

You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my question
with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM version
to answer this question. 

Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.

You would do better to keep to yourself.

Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
> 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking 
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

"Could you please be a little more vague?"

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context, 
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows 
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")




Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Rick Quatro
In fairness to Stuart (his "tone" notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to 
answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either. Also, if 
you did receive satisfactory answers from others, please share them with the 
list. Thanks.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


> Stuart!!
> Where do you get off busting my chops?
>
> You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my 
> question
> with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM 
> version
> to answer this question.
>
> Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
>
> You would do better to keep to yourself.
>
> Natalie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srogers at phoenix-geophysics.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
> To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?
>
> Natalie Bircher wrote:
>> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks?
>>
>
>
> In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
> to patrons with ill-formed questions:
>
> "Could you please be a little more vague?"
>
> Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
> lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
> what the heck you are talking about.
>
> thanks,
>
> -- 
> Stuart Rogers
> Technical Communicator
> Phoenix Geophysics Limited
> Toronto, ON, Canada
> +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
>
> srogers phoenix-geophysics com
>
> "On the contrary."
> -- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little
> better.")
>




Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Peter Gold
On 10/4/07, Rick Quatro  wrote:
> In fairness to Stuart (his "tone" notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to
> answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either.

Same here.

The context you provide helps those list volunteers who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices



Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Kelly McDaniel
Wow, I sure missed Stuart's subtext.
Disclaimer: I do not know Stuart.

With over 36 years in computers and data wrangling, yep, pardner, over
36...since back in the steam-powered days of the big iron...
There was not enough information in the original question for me to
provide you with a response that was any better than a few targeted
guesses. I have come to the conclusion that the self-ascribed condition
is common amongst those with a bit of grey at the temples, or at least
enough trail dust in the nostrils, to have seen much of life.

My Dad used to irritate the living daylights out of me with his
protracted replies to questions I asked when I just wanted a quick nudge
over a hump in the fork of the road. Later in life, I understood what he
meant when he said, "I told you that to tell you this...so you'll
understand what I'm about to tell you."...then he'd go on. Time dragged.
I remember distinctly, the day in our garage when I was 12 years old and
asked Dad how it felt, what it was like to be "old" like he was? My
wisened, 33 year old Dad looked back and said, "I asked my Dad the same
question, and I have the same answer for you that he gave me: I still
feel like a kid inside. I'm just more careful when I play."

Let's all lean back in the saddle, let the reins go slack a minute, give
the pony a little break, and just take a deep breath...happy trails
y'all, Kelly.







-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+kmcdaniel=pavtech@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+kmcdaniel=pavtech.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Natalie Bircher
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:14 AM
To: 'Stuart Rogers'
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Stuart!!
Where do you get off busting my chops? 

You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my
question
with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM
version
to answer this question. 

Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.

You would do better to keep to yourself.

Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks? 
> 


In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking 
to patrons with ill-formed questions:

"Could you please be a little more vague?"

Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context, 
lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows 
what the heck you are talking about.

thanks,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")

___


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Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Art Campbell
Ditto. Stuart's comment was fair; you can't help much if you don't
know the context.
I was sorely tempted to hit Reply to the OP and just say "yes."

Art

On 10/4/07, Rick Quatro  wrote:
> In fairness to Stuart (his "tone" notwithstanding), I didn't attempt to
> answer the original question because it wasn't clear to me either. Also, if
> you did receive satisfactory answers from others, please share them with the
> list. Thanks.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>
> > Stuart!!
> > Where do you get off busting my chops?
> >
> > You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my
> > question
> > with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM
> > version
> > to answer this question.
> >
> > Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
> >
> > You would do better to keep to yourself.
> >
> > Natalie
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srogers at phoenix-geophysics.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:53 AM
> > To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?
> >
> > Natalie Bircher wrote:
> >> Does anyone know why I would lose page and column breaks?
> >>
> >
> >
> > In the words of a favourite reference librarian of mine, when speaking
> > to patrons with ill-formed questions:
> >
> > "Could you please be a little more vague?"
> >
> > Natalie!!  You are a technical writer.  Please provide some context,
> > lots of details, your OS and FM version, etc. so your audience knows
> > what the heck you are talking about.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Stuart Rogers
> > Technical Communicator
> > Phoenix Geophysics Limited
> > Toronto, ON, Canada
> > +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325
> >

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358



Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Combs, Richard
Natalie Bircher wrote:

> Stuart!!
> Where do you get off busting my chops? 
> 
> You apparently need more help than the others that have 
> answered my question with the information I gave. I didn't 
> need to give them my OS or FM version to answer this question. 
> 
> Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
> 
> You would do better to keep to yourself.

My answer to your question was based on pure guesswork and included a
parenthetical note that more info would help. Berny called his response
"a shot in the dark." 

I think Stuart's recommendation that you explain yourself more clearly
was dead on, and it was politely phrased, not arrogant. (I don't
understand at all what you mean by "self-serving" -- even if you thought
he was rude, how is it self-serving?)

I suspect that your angry outburst has had this result: in the future
when you ask a question, many of us will remember your admonition, "You
would do better to keep to yourself" -- and will do so. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--







Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Natalie Bircher
First, I apologize for my knee-jerk response...to Stuart and all of you.

I really, truly had no idea what type of information you would need to
answer such a question. A polite request for that information would have
been appropriate, and appreciated.



-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:13 AM
To: natalieb at backstreetmedia.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Why am I losing page and column breaks?

Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Stuart!!
> Where do you get off busting my chops? 
> 
> You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my
question
> with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM
version
> to answer this question. 
> 
> Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
> 
> You would do better to keep to yourself.
> 
> Natalie
> 

My apologies, Natalie; I did not mean to offend.  Obviously I should 
have sprinkled the posting liberally with winking emoticons, as the 
intended friendly jibe apparently didn't make it through cyberspace.

I admit it is a pet peeve of mine that so often people who are 
supposedly "professional communicators" post (on this and other lists) 
questions that border on the insulting, they are so haphazardly and 
carelessly formed.  Surely our peers deserve a little more effort on the 
part of the questioners, out of simple respect (and self-respect).

If you didn't know what was causing your problem, how did you know that 
no-one would need your OS and version information to solve it?  Have you 
never encountered version- or platform-specific bugs?  It is 
long-established netiquette to include such basic information as a 
matter of course, though you are not by any means alone in omitting it.

I am happy that the psychics on this list were able to identify the 
cause of your problem so quickly.  Please do share the solution.  I 
promise to keep to myself in regard to any future postings from you.

(And thank you, Peter, Rick, Kelly, Richard, and Art, for your 
supportive remarks.)


-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")




Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers
Natalie Bircher wrote:
> First, I apologize for my knee-jerk response...to Stuart and all of you.

Oh all right then, since we've both apologized, I won't keep to myself 
after all.  (We're in the middle of an election campaign in Ontario, so 
making promises that won't be kept is the sport-du-jour anyway ;-)

I accept your apology.

> 
> I really, truly had no idea what type of information you would need to
> answer such a question. A polite request for that information would have
> been appropriate, and appreciated.

Well, for hints on how to pose future questions, I suggest you just have 
a look through the archives, or simply read the posts from others that 
will appear in the interim.  The ones that got or will get the fastest, 
most accurate responses are good examples of well-described situations 
and clearly stated problems.

People tell us what their layout is (side-heads or no, multiple master 
pages or no, etc.), what the problem page consists of ("a big table that 
continues overleaf"), what happened immediately before the problem 
occurred (updated the book, imported a text inset, re-opened a file 
saved on a server, etc.), and any other details that make the situation 
unusual (or not).  And of course, as I mentioned before, your OS and FM 
version are important because in many cases the answer is dead simple: 
such-and-such a version of FM for Windoze has a known bug, and here's 
the work-around.

For your own situation, you might have told us about your page layout 
(number of columns, feathered/balanced, proximity to straddling 
paragraphs), whether the problem occurred on every page/column or just 
in certain circumstances, the characteristics of the tags on affected 
paragraphs, how the breaks were applied in the first place, what you did 
that seemed to cause them to fail, and so on.  Think about how you quiz 
your SMEs when you're researching for your documentation, and you will 
have put yourself in the shoes of framers who need information from you 
in order to help.  Too much information is better than too little, and 
much better than none.

Best regards,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")



Why am I losing page and column breaks?

2007-10-04 Thread Stuart Rogers
Natalie Bircher wrote:
> Stuart!!
> Where do you get off busting my chops? 
> 
> You apparently need more help than the others that have answered my question
> with the information I gave. I didn't need to give them my OS or FM version
> to answer this question. 
> 
> Your tone is arrogant and self-serving.
> 
> You would do better to keep to yourself.
> 
> Natalie
> 

My apologies, Natalie; I did not mean to offend.  Obviously I should 
have sprinkled the posting liberally with winking emoticons, as the 
intended friendly jibe apparently didn't make it through cyberspace.

I admit it is a pet peeve of mine that so often people who are 
supposedly "professional communicators" post (on this and other lists) 
questions that border on the insulting, they are so haphazardly and 
carelessly formed.  Surely our peers deserve a little more effort on the 
part of the questioners, out of simple respect (and self-respect).

If you didn't know what was causing your problem, how did you know that 
no-one would need your OS and version information to solve it?  Have you 
never encountered version- or platform-specific bugs?  It is 
long-established netiquette to include such basic information as a 
matter of course, though you are not by any means alone in omitting it.

I am happy that the psychics on this list were able to identify the 
cause of your problem so quickly.  Please do share the solution.  I 
promise to keep to myself in regard to any future postings from you.

(And thank you, Peter, Rick, Kelly, Richard, and Art, for your 
supportive remarks.)


-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"On the contrary."
-- Henrik Ibsen (last words, after a nurse said he "seemed a little 
better.")