Re: [Plone-developers] [Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
On 18.09.2008, at 05:04, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Tom Lazar wrote: if any of my previous conferences and sprints are an indicator, i just *know* that i won't be doing any actual fwt review work while in DC. but that's not important. review work is 'fleissarbeit' to use a nice german term here and can easily be done alone, whenever one can find some time. i'd like to use the time at the conference to discuss actual ideas/plips and to brainstorm the future fwt process, so i have no problem with a post-conference plip deadline (although, it shouldn't be too far after the conference as to not remove momentum from the ideas/plips that have been fleshed out during the conference. so, i guess, i'm +1 on wichert's deadline of one week after the conference. in fact, i think it's pretty much perfect... Keep in mind that at this stage the review will not involve code at all, only ideas/proposals. right, i failed to consider that... Which seems to fit with what you're doing at the conference :) absolutely! bring it on ;-) Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Plone-developers] [Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
Previously Tom Lazar wrote: > if any of my previous conferences and sprints are an indicator, i just > *know* that i won't be doing any actual fwt review work while in DC. > but that's not important. review work is 'fleissarbeit' to use a nice > german term here and can easily be done alone, whenever one can find > some time. i'd like to use the time at the conference to discuss > actual ideas/plips and to brainstorm the future fwt process, so i have > no problem with a post-conference plip deadline (although, it > shouldn't be too far after the conference as to not remove momentum > from the ideas/plips that have been fleshed out during the conference. > so, i guess, i'm +1 on wichert's deadline of one week after the > conference. in fact, i think it's pretty much perfect... Keep in mind that at this stage the review will not involve code at all, only ideas/proposals. Which seems to fit with what you're doing at the conference :) Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
if any of my previous conferences and sprints are an indicator, i just *know* that i won't be doing any actual fwt review work while in DC. but that's not important. review work is 'fleissarbeit' to use a nice german term here and can easily be done alone, whenever one can find some time. i'd like to use the time at the conference to discuss actual ideas/plips and to brainstorm the future fwt process, so i have no problem with a post-conference plip deadline (although, it shouldn't be too far after the conference as to not remove momentum from the ideas/plips that have been fleshed out during the conference. so, i guess, i'm +1 on wichert's deadline of one week after the conference. in fact, i think it's pretty much perfect... just my $0.02 tom (who does indeed read the fwt via plain old email and thus sometimes misses any action on the list for a few days...) (i have a separate IMAP account for list traffic that i don't check as regularly as my personal account) On 14.09.2008, at 13:32, Andreas Zeidler wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:16:40 +0200, Martin Aspeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm not really interested in labouring this further. how about --- as a compromise --- set the deadline for turning in PLIPs on friday october 10th, i.e. the last day of the conference? the fwt will be busy discussing their processes during the first couple of days anyway (hopefully). at least personally i don't expect to have time to review PLIPs while the conf is still running. that'll change once the sprint starts, though. i haven't really decided what i'm gonna work on, so i might as well set some time to review and discuss PLIPs with the other members and hopefully also with their authors. In the future, I think it'd be good if we adopted a slightly more consultative approach to setting deadlines for the process. +1 If the FWT were forced to be more actively involved in the planning and setting of deadlienes in the first place (How many have actually chimed into this thread? Only Andreas, I think...), then they may also feel more responsible for meeting those deadlines. +1 as well. and, as a side note, i'm not sure if all members are reading the fwt list as mail or via a news reader, but i suspect some of them do the latter and might not have noticed the discussion yet. an easy "fix" for that might be to actually cc all members directly on mails like wichert's announcement. the schedule and deadlines will affect the fwt members directly, so we should make sure they know about them asap. cheers, andi -- zeidler it consulting - http://zitc.de/ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] friedelstraße 31 - 12047 berlin - telefon +49 30 25563779 pgp key at http://zitc.de/pgp - http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net/ plone 3.1.5.1 released! -- http://plone.org/products/plone/ ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:16:40 +0200, Martin Aspeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm not really interested in labouring this further. how about --- as a compromise --- set the deadline for turning in PLIPs on friday october 10th, i.e. the last day of the conference? the fwt will be busy discussing their processes during the first couple of days anyway (hopefully). at least personally i don't expect to have time to review PLIPs while the conf is still running. that'll change once the sprint starts, though. i haven't really decided what i'm gonna work on, so i might as well set some time to review and discuss PLIPs with the other members and hopefully also with their authors. In the future, I think it'd be good if we adopted a slightly more consultative approach to setting deadlines for the process. +1 If the FWT were forced to be more actively involved in the planning and setting of deadlienes in the first place (How many have actually chimed into this thread? Only Andreas, I think...), then they may also feel more responsible for meeting those deadlines. +1 as well. and, as a side note, i'm not sure if all members are reading the fwt list as mail or via a news reader, but i suspect some of them do the latter and might not have noticed the discussion yet. an easy "fix" for that might be to actually cc all members directly on mails like wichert's announcement. the schedule and deadlines will affect the fwt members directly, so we should make sure they know about them asap. cheers, andi -- zeidler it consulting - http://zitc.de/ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] friedelstraße 31 - 12047 berlin - telefon +49 30 25563779 pgp key at http://zitc.de/pgp - http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net/ plone 3.1.5.1 released! -- http://plone.org/products/plone/ ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
On Sep 7, 2008, at 11:42 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote: Personally, I'm leaning slightly in the direction of waiting for PLIP submissions until after the conference. There'll be several talks about and opportunities to discuss ways to improve Plone. If someone has a good idea and wants to PLIP it (and better yet, work on it) during the conference/sprint, telling them that the window is closed would be a shame. i completely agree. otoh people will probably want to get going on their PLIPs during the sprint, like wichert said. that might lead to frustration later on in case their PLIPs won't be accepted, but with the decisions made after the conf/sprint they cannot know whether to put in all their energy or not, so to say... then again, i reckon many people simply won't have enough time to sit down and think (and also write their thoughts down) before the conf and an event like that would be a good opportunity to do so. so personally i'm still undecided and would like to hear some more opinions. spontaneously i think i'd rather "leave the window open", but i'd like to contemplate about it a bit more... cheers, andi -- zeidler it consulting - http://zitc.de/ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] friedelstraße 31 - 12047 berlin - telefon +49 30 25563779 pgp key at http://zitc.de/pgp - http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net/ plone 3.1.5.1 released! -- http://plone.org/products/plone/ PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
Hi Wichert, We also need to determine what we do with existing eggs that have dodgy/missing dependencies, and whether or not we can make plone.recipe.plone optional (or just a dumb wrapper around zc.recipe.egg). We already have some suggestions and discussion on that and I have a local git tree which tries to solve a lot of this. I'll commit that back to svn after my vacation in a few weeks. Cool! I think we need to decide if we want to go with the KGS route that Zope are using, the index route that repoze is using, a recipe route like we have now, or something else. This is not about code at all, it is about deciding early on if the PLIPs are desirable and correct so we can immediately inform the PLIP authors. I don't want people working very hard at a PLIP when we already know that it will not be accepted or that it will need to be changed. Cool - that's what I thought. +1 for that. There is always a reason to wait for another date. I think a lot of people are coming up with ideas while preparing / psyching up for the conenference, so this schedule makes sense to me. Sure, I can see it either way. However, I think the Framework Team should make the decision here, since this review step is almost entirely down to them. If none of them will have time or see themselves working on this during the conference, then we can make better use of the conference time to allow PLIPs to foster. Personally, I'm leaning slightly in the direction of waiting for PLIP submissions until after the conference. There'll be several talks about and opportunities to discuss ways to improve Plone. If someone has a good idea and wants to PLIP it (and better yet, work on it) during the conference/sprint, telling them that the window is closed would be a shame. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Plone 3.2 and 3.3 planning
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:34:58 -0700, Martin Aspeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That's a good idea. On the other hand, I wonder if it would be nice to give people a chance to come up with and work on PLIPs during the post-conference sprint. In the past, we've seen a spike in PLIPs around sprints as people focus on one thing or another. +1. -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
