Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
wowno mention of hollywood at all wonder how HW got edited in? thanks jack On 07/10/2011, at 5:46 PM, black hole cinematheque/archive wrote: > Jack, > The original quote, in case it hasn't been relayed in full yet, is > the third sentence in the second paragraph in Cinematography: The Creative > Use Of Reality, found as Bruce stated in the Essential Deren collection he > edited, published by Documentext, It doesn't mention hollywood however, this > is it (I added the entire paragraph for context) : > > "The photographic medium is, as a matter of fact, so amorphous that it is not > merely unobtrusive but virtually transparent, and so becomes, more than any > other medium, susceptible of servitude to any and all the others. The > enormous value of such servitude suffices to justify the medium and to be > generally accepted as its function. This has been a major obstacle to the > definition and development of motion pictures as a creative fine-art form- > capable of creative action in its own terms- for its own character is as a > latent image which can become manifest only if no other image is imposed upon > it to obscure it."- Maya Deren > > hope this helps, > -tooth kaminsky > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
Jack, The original quote, in case it hasn't been relayed in full yet, is the third sentence in the second paragraph in Cinematography: The Creative Use Of Reality, found as Bruce stated in the Essential Deren collection he edited, published by Documentext, It doesn't mention hollywood however, this is it (I added the entire paragraph for context) : "The photographic medium is, as a matter of fact, so amorphous that it is not merely unobtrusive but virtually transparent, and so becomes, more than any other medium, susceptible of servitude to any and all the others. The enormous value of such servitude suffices to justify the medium and to be generally accepted as its function. This has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as a creative fine-art form- capable of creative action in its own terms- for its own character is as a latent image which can become manifest only if no other image is imposed upon it to obscure it."- Maya Deren hope this helps, -tooth kaminsky ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
ah, thanks for the heads=up can i ask what was in the original sentence? On 07/10/2011, at 12:18 PM, Bruce McPherson wrote: > The essay cited is included in the collection of Deren's writings I edited, > Essential Deren: Collected Writings on Film (Kingston, New York: > Documentext/McPherson & Company, 2005), p. 110. Note, however, that the > sentence quoted does not use the term "Hollywood," which is someone else's > interpolation. > Bruce McPherson > > > - Original Message - > From: "Jack Sargeant" > To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help > > >> thats great, thanks jack >> On 06/10/2011, at 8:23 PM, Patrick Friel wrote: >> >>> Jack, >>> >>> This is the citation in Rabinovitz's book: >>> >>> Maya Deren, "Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality," Daedalus 89, >>> no. >>> 1 (Winter 1960), 150; reprinted in The Avant-garde Film: A Reader of >>> Theory >>> and Criticism, ed. P. Adams Sitney (New York: New York University Press, >>> 1978), 60. >>> >>> >>> On 10/6/11 3:37 AM, "Lainna Fader" wrote: >>> >>>> You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & >>> Politics in >>>> the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. >>> >>> You can view the quote >>>> in the text of the book >>>> here: >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+ha >>>> s+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+a >>>> s+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&o >>>> i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20ha >>>> s%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20 >>>> of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20dere >>>> n&f=false >>> >>> The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is >>>> excluded >>> in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the >>>> original >>> source of the quote now. Hope that helps! >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at >>>> 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: >>>> hi >>>> >>>> a maya deren >>>> question: >>>> >>>> has anybody got a full source for this quote: >>>> >>>> "hollywood has >>>> been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion >>>> pictures as >>>> a creative fine-art form." maya deren >>>> >>>> if so please can they send it to >>>> me, >>>> many thanks >>>> >>>> jack >>>> >>>> jacksargeant.blogspot.com >>>> www.jacktext.net >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> FrameWorks mailing list >>>> >>>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >>>> >>>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >>>> >>> ___ >>>> >>> FrameWorks mailing >>>> list >>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listi >>>> nfo/frameworks >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> FrameWorks mailing list >>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >> >> ___ >> FrameWorks mailing list >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >> > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
The essay cited is included in the collection of Deren's writings I edited, Essential Deren: Collected Writings on Film (Kingston, New York: Documentext/McPherson & Company, 2005), p. 110. Note, however, that the sentence quoted does not use the term "Hollywood," which is someone else's interpolation. Bruce McPherson - Original Message - From: "Jack Sargeant" To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help > thats great, thanks jack > On 06/10/2011, at 8:23 PM, Patrick Friel wrote: > >> Jack, >> >> This is the citation in Rabinovitz's book: >> >> Maya Deren, "Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality," Daedalus 89, >> no. >> 1 (Winter 1960), 150; reprinted in The Avant-garde Film: A Reader of >> Theory >> and Criticism, ed. P. Adams Sitney (New York: New York University Press, >> 1978), 60. >> >> >> On 10/6/11 3:37 AM, "Lainna Fader" wrote: >> >>> You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & >> Politics in >>> the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. >> >> You can view the quote >>> in the text of the book >>> here: >> http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+ha >>> s+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+a >>> s+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&o >>> i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20ha >>> s%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20 >>> of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20dere >>> n&f=false >> >> The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is >>> excluded >> in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the >>> original >> source of the quote now. Hope that helps! >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at >>> 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: >>> hi >>> >>> a maya deren >>> question: >>> >>> has anybody got a full source for this quote: >>> >>> "hollywood has >>> been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion >>> pictures as >>> a creative fine-art form." maya deren >>> >>> if so please can they send it to >>> me, >>> many thanks >>> >>> jack >>> >>> jacksargeant.blogspot.com >>> www.jacktext.net >>> >>> ___ >>> FrameWorks mailing list >>> >>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >>> >>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >>> >> ___ >>> >> FrameWorks mailing >>> list >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listi >>> nfo/frameworks >> >> >> >> ___ >> FrameWorks mailing list >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
Thank you both! On 10/6/11 2:23 AM, "Patrick Friel" wrote: > Jack, > > This is the citation in Rabinovitz's book: > > Maya Deren, "Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality," Daedalus 89, no. > 1 (Winter 1960), 150; reprinted in The Avant-garde Film: A Reader of Theory > and Criticism, ed. P. Adams Sitney (New York: New York University Press, > 1978), 60. > > > On 10/6/11 3:37 AM, "Lainna Fader" wrote: > >> You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & > Politics in >> the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. > > You can view the quote >> in the text of the book >> here: > http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+ha >> s+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+>> a >> s+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&>> o >> i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20h>> a >> s%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%2>> 0 >> of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20der>> e >> n&f=false > > The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is >> excluded > in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the >> original > source of the quote now. Hope that helps! > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at >> 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: >> hi >> >> a maya deren >> question: >> >> has anybody got a full source for this quote: >> >> "hollywood has >> been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as >> a creative fine-art form." maya deren >> >> if so please can they send it to >> me, >> many thanks >> >> jack >> >> jacksargeant.blogspot.com >> www.jacktext.net ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
thats great, thanks jack On 06/10/2011, at 8:23 PM, Patrick Friel wrote: > Jack, > > This is the citation in Rabinovitz's book: > > Maya Deren, "Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality," Daedalus 89, no. > 1 (Winter 1960), 150; reprinted in The Avant-garde Film: A Reader of Theory > and Criticism, ed. P. Adams Sitney (New York: New York University Press, > 1978), 60. > > > On 10/6/11 3:37 AM, "Lainna Fader" wrote: > >> You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & > Politics in >> the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. > > You can view the quote >> in the text of the book >> here: > http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+ha >> s+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+a >> s+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&o >> i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20ha >> s%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20 >> of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20dere >> n&f=false > > The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is >> excluded > in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the >> original > source of the quote now. Hope that helps! > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at >> 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: >> hi >> >> a maya deren >> question: >> >> has anybody got a full source for this quote: >> >> "hollywood has >> been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as >> a creative fine-art form." maya deren >> >> if so please can they send it to >> me, >> many thanks >> >> jack >> >> jacksargeant.blogspot.com >> www.jacktext.net >> >> ___ >> FrameWorks mailing list >> >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >> > ___ >> > FrameWorks mailing >> list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listi >> nfo/frameworks > > > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
Jack, This is the citation in Rabinovitz's book: Maya Deren, "Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality," Daedalus 89, no. 1 (Winter 1960), 150; reprinted in The Avant-garde Film: A Reader of Theory and Criticism, ed. P. Adams Sitney (New York: New York University Press, 1978), 60. On 10/6/11 3:37 AM, "Lainna Fader" wrote: > You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & Politics in > the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. You can view the quote > in the text of the book > here: http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+ha > s+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+a > s+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&o > i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20ha > s%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20 > of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20dere > n&f=false The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is > excluded in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the > original source of the quote now. Hope that helps! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at > 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: > hi > > a maya deren > question: > > has anybody got a full source for this quote: > > "hollywood has > been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as > a creative fine-art form." maya deren > > if so please can they send it to > me, > many thanks > > jack > > jacksargeant.blogspot.com > www.jacktext.net > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > ___ > FrameWorks mailing > list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listi > nfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
THANKS Lainna! Jack On 06/10/2011, at 7:37 PM, Lainna Fader wrote: > You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & > Politics in the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. > > You can view the quote in the text of the book here: > http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+has+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+as+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20has%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20deren&f=false > > The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is excluded > in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the original > source of the quote now. Hope that helps! > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: >> hi >> >> a maya deren question: >> >> has anybody got a full source for this quote: >> >> "hollywood has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of >> motion pictures as a creative fine-art form." maya deren >> >> if so please can they send it to me, >> many thanks >> >> jack >> >> jacksargeant.blogspot.com >> www.jacktext.net >> ___ >> FrameWorks mailing list >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >> > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
You can find that quote in Points of Resistance: Women, Power & Politics in the New York Avant-Garde Cinema by Lauren Rabinovitz. You can view the quote in the text of the book here: http://books.google.com/books?id=fymPjM1c6E0C&pg=PA49&dq=%22hollywood+has+been+a+major+obstacle+to+the+definition+and+development+of+motion+pictures+as+a+creative+fine-art+form.%22+maya+deren&hl=en&ei=nWeNToVTiKixAuCFkKsB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22hollywood%20has%20been%20a%20major%20obstacle%20to%20the%20definition%20and%20development%20of%20motion%20pictures%20as%20a%20creative%20fine-art%20form.%22%20maya%20deren&f=false The quote is footnoted, but it seems the page with notes is excluded in the preview. But you can go find that book and look up the original source of the quote now. Hope that helps! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote: > hi > > a maya deren question: > > has anybody got a full source for this quote: > > "hollywood has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of > motion pictures as a creative fine-art form." maya deren > > if so please can they send it to me, > many thanks > > jack > > jacksargeant.blogspot.com > www.jacktext.net > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
Any chance you have an idea what essay it could be from? I'll speed-scan my book of Deren's writings when I get home later!Jonathan --- On Thu, 6/10/11, Jack Sargeant wrote: From: Jack Sargeant Subject: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" Date: Thursday, 6 October, 2011, 1:12 hi a maya deren question: has anybody got a full source for this quote: "hollywood has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as a creative fine-art form." maya deren if so please can they send it to me, many thanks jack jacksargeant.blogspot.com www.jacktext.net ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] maya deren quote help
Actually, I'd love to get that citation as well, please. Best regards, Adam On 10/5/11 6:12 PM, "Jack Sargeant" wrote: > hi > > a maya deren question: > > has anybody got a full source for this quote: > > "hollywood has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of > motion pictures as a creative fine-art form." maya deren > > if so please can they send it to me, > many thanks > > jack > > jacksargeant.blogspot.com > www.jacktext.net > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
