Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
> I really must say that Fafa is a useless troll. Is the point of your rudeness towards me, whatever person I am, of any more use to the FreeBSD community? <0> You're a troll! <1> No you're a troll! <0> No you! <1> NO! > He requests his name not be on any mailing lists, yet acknowledges > that it infact isn't even his/her name, and continues to mail the > lists. I asked for advice on how to clear names off mailinglists. Not my own name, be it Fafa or be it Afaf, but the name of someone I know who has been threatened by triads. The only response I've gotten on that subject (THIS AIN'T IT, SO WHY ARE YOU INTERMIXING YOU LITTLE *) is: you shold have been aware. Oh well. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
I really must say that Fafa is a useless troll. He requests his name not be on any mailing lists, yet acknowledges that it infact isn't even his/her name, and continues to mail the lists. Topposting hurray. On 5/7/05, Fafa Hafiz Krantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get a > > vote. > > - though that's not on http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt > > Now we are talking :) > > > > They've certainly earned it. > > > > Yes. > > Uhuh! Ain't nothing wrong with that. > > -- > > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop > Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf > > -- > ___ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > -- -Tomas Quintero ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On Saturday 07 May 2005 06:22 am, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > No. > > > > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and > > thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree > > with Dan's rather concise answer. > > That is your manifesto. > > FreeBSD is more dependant of its users than its users are of FreeBSD. Only in the case where the users are also developers. A bunch of developers who choose to develop software for their own use have no inherent need for us. If you want a rational discussion, you'll need to come down to Earth. > FreeBSD needs to live. Users could always switch to Linux. FreeBSD does not "need to live". If all of its developers and users decided to move on to something else, that would be okay. FreeBSD survives because it provides great benefit and many enjoy developing it. There is no moral obligation, however, for the project to continue. > > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any > > talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to > > the Core Team. They've certainly earned it. > > I agree with you on that. They have earned it. > > But since it was the community of regular users that spawned the > discussions which eventually lead to this logo change, I believe that > the community should also get to participate in it. > > > FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't > > some sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little > > more humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less > > upity. (Did I spell that right?) > > FreeBSD is for man kind by man kind. > FreeBSD is for rich, spoiled people by rich, spoiled people. > The same way FreeBSD is for oppressed people, by oppressed people. > > All people. FreeBSD is for those who want to use it; but that usage does not provide any rights to its users. There is no obligation for the Project to provide support to its users. You can get FreeBSD for free; and you already get more than you paid for. > > We users (those of us who represent the next generation) are the ones > that'll eventually be put in charge of the project after our current > leaders retire or die. It's my understanding that contributors, **not users** run the project. > > I also agree with you that most BSD people need a change of attitude. Always start with improving yourself. > 30% of all e-mails are more rude than even people with intentions to > kill would utter before killing. You're being overly dramatic. > > -- > > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop > Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On 7 May 2005 at 6:11, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > No. > > What a pathetic answer. And arguing about a logo isn't? Get a life. There are much more important things to be obsessive compulsive about. If you are as concerned about FreeBSD as you say you are, do something constructive. All I've see so far is useless banter. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
> I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get a vote. > - though that's not on http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt Now we are talking :) > > They've certainly earned it. > > Yes. Uhuh! Ain't nothing wrong with that. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
> > No. > > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus > from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's > rather concise answer. That is your manifesto. FreeBSD is more dependant of its users than its users are of FreeBSD. FreeBSD needs to live. Users could always switch to Linux. > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I > would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. > They've certainly earned it. I agree with you on that. They have earned it. But since it was the community of regular users that spawned the discussions which eventually lead to this logo change, I believe that the community should also get to participate in it. > FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't some > sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little more > humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less upity. > (Did I spell that right?) FreeBSD is for man kind by man kind. FreeBSD is for rich, spoiled people by rich, spoiled people. The same way FreeBSD is for oppressed people, by oppressed people. All people. We users (those of us who represent the next generation) are the ones that'll eventually be put in charge of the project after our current leaders retire or die. I also agree with you that most BSD people need a change of attitude. 30% of all e-mails are more rude than even people with intentions to kill would utter before killing. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
> No. What a pathetic answer. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On Friday 06 May 2005 05:34 pm, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > "Andrew L. Gould" wrote: > > On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > > > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could > > > > participate? > > > > > > No. > > > > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and > > thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree > > with Dan's rather concise answer. > > > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any > > talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to > > the Core Team. > > I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get > a vote. - though that's not on > http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt I don't know either way. Perhaps I used the term "Core Team" incorrectly. However the developers choose to handle it is fine with me. > > > They've certainly earned it. > > Yes. > - > Julian StaceyNet & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich > http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein > allergischer Kopfschmerz. > ___ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
"Andrew L. Gould" wrote: > On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? > > No. > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus > from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's > rather concise answer. > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I > would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get a vote. - though that's not on http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt > They've certainly earned it. Yes. - Julian StaceyNet & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? > > No. As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's rather concise answer. I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. They've certainly earned it. FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't some sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little more humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less upity. (Did I spell that right?) Respectfully, Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? No. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
On 5/6/05, Fafa Hafiz Krantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey! > > I believe that the FreeBSD Project -- representing an open and > democratic rule and not a totalitarian power -- should allow its > users to decide what logo would be best suited. Hence, it would > be in the best interest for the future of this project to put > all logo submissions up for public display. This display should > be complimented by a voting system. > > It is very important to get things right from the start. Look at > the NetBSD Project and their new logo for instance. The public > expressed great discontent about it, but only after the logo had > sunken deep into the cycles of production and the mentalities > of its contributors. > > Even though designers do this for free (and I am sure most act > out of their love for the system and not because of the reward), > the framework of their profession should still apply. That is, a > contract protecting their rights from malicious intentions. > > The FreeBSD Project should acknowledge that the elected designer > is entitled some say in the redesign of FreeBSD's website. Its > coders would most likely not know the first thing about design, > and hence compromise FreeBSD's image and its potential as > conceived by the designer. If the website design also should be > staged as a competition, it would be in the best interest of the > project to let the identity designer cooperate with the website > designer on the final outcome. > > We all want what is best for FreeBSD. > Having said that, there should be no reason to fight over this. > > A working design contract in need of modification: > http://www.aiga.org/resources/Content/1/4/6/documents/AIGA_contract.pdf > > -- > > Fafa Hafiz Krantz >Research Designer @ http://www.bleed.no >Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=freebsd-questions&m=111537599232346&w=2 I would refer you to this address Fafa, prior to posting on the lists continually. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11153760591&r=1&w=2 Perhaps that one, for the entire story. -- -Tomas Quintero ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
Trying to subjugate my voice into spam now? > Being ignored does not make FreeBSD "totalitarian", which was your concern. > Totalitarians are people with guns and police and jails and executions. This > isn't an authoritarian state, because there is no threat of deadly force to > coerce you into compliance with a politician's wishes. Neither is it a > democracy, because the same lack of political authority prevents compelling > you to the wishes of the majority. I know that. This is the Internet. > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will > refuse to use it. End of story. > > > > How are they suppose to do that? :) > > Simply by refusing to use it! There is nothing compelling me to use the new > logo if I don't want to. If this is too hard to understand, it may be > because it's so absurdly simple that you're overlooking the obvious. If > FreeBSD Mall or DaemonNews doesn't want to use the new logo on their CD > distributions, they don't have to. If FreshPorts doesn't want to use the new > logo on its website, it doesn't have to. You said people. I assumed regular people. People who don't own the biggest FreeBSD related websites. I can't avoid seeing the parts of my body when I use it, know what I mean? > > If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. > > It might be "too late" in terms of an official logo. But there's nothing > that would stop the community from adopting an unofficial logo instead, > should they decide to do so. In fact, if the official logo happens to be > distasteful enough to the community, there's nothing stopping a fork from > occuring. In reality, however, the logo will probably end up being quite > satisfactory. This struck me as an official competition. And you are most right, the result should be quite satisfactory. > > Then it is me versus the logo crew. > > > > 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. > > 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. > > To be blunt, your wants are irrelevant. Volunteerism is a two way street. > Not only is FreeBSD unable to force its logo upon you, you are also unable > to force your wishes upon the logo crew. Isn't that sort of contradictory: > Never once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or > subjugated a user. I'm not forcing. I'm suggesting. Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: SPAM: Score 2.5: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
From: Fafa Hafiz Krantz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I don't feel subjugated. But I do feel ignored. > Since I brought these issues up, the contest crew have been silent. Being ignored does not make FreeBSD "totalitarian", which was your concern. Totalitarians are people with guns and police and jails and executions. This isn't an authoritarian state, because there is no threat of deadly force to coerce you into compliance with a politician's wishes. Neither is it a democracy, because the same lack of political authority prevents compelling you to the wishes of the majority. > > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse > > to use it. End of story. > > How are they suppose to do that? :) Simply by refusing to use it! There is nothing compelling me to use the new logo if I don't want to. If this is too hard to understand, it may be because it's so absurdly simple that you're overlooking the obvious. If FreeBSD Mall or DaemonNews doesn't want to use the new logo on their CD distributions, they don't have to. If FreshPorts doesn't want to use the new logo on its website, it doesn't have to. > If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. It might be "too late" in terms of an official logo. But there's nothing that would stop the community from adopting an unofficial logo instead, should they decide to do so. In fact, if the official logo happens to be distasteful enough to the community, there's nothing stopping a fork from occuring. In reality, however, the logo will probably end up being quite satisfactory. > Then it is me versus the logo crew. > > 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. > 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. To be blunt, your wants are irrelevant. Volunteerism is a two way street. Not only is FreeBSD unable to force its logo upon you, you are also unable to force your wishes upon the logo crew. David Johnson ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
Thank you for your reply, David! > The FreeBSD Project is not a totalitarian power. Trust me on this. Never > once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or > subjugated a user. There have been rumours of domination, but I understand > it is between consenting partners... I don't feel subjugated. But I do feel ignored. Since I brought these issues up, the contest crew have been silent. > The FreeBSD project, as will all other Free Software projects, are governed > not by "rule", but by 100% pure voluntary cooperation. I am glad to hear that. > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse > to use it. End of story. How are they suppose to do that? :) If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. > No one who has read and understood the contest announcement is fighting over > this. Then it is me versus the logo crew. 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. What is wrong with public view and voting? It would allow the combined aesthetic force of our entire community to make this tough decision, as opposed to some people who imagine they're in charge. The community would also be able to notify the coordinators whether some of the logos are ripoffs or close to be qualified as such. Thanks. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
From: Fafa Hafiz Krantz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I believe that the FreeBSD Project -- representing an open and > democratic rule and not a totalitarian power The FreeBSD Project is not a totalitarian power. Trust me on this. Never once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or subjugated a user. There have been rumours of domination, but I understand it is between consenting partners... The FreeBSD project, as will all other Free Software projects, are governed not by "rule", but by 100% pure voluntary cooperation. If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse to use it. End of story. > Having said that, there should be no reason to fight over this. No one who has read and understood the contest announcement is fighting over this. David Johnson ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
julian --- i'll just assume you've had a tough week at the office and you're tired. it seems to me that if an infrequent poster, with good intentions, trying to be helpful, commits a minor breach of regulations [ if it's a first offense, this kind --is-- minor ], the appropriate response is a gentle chiding. this usually elicits a sheepish, but sincere, apology and the infraction is never repeated. [ on the other hand, frequent violation by one who is clearly aware calls for a response that i can only describe, wishing to remain in good taste, as medieval. ] are you a drinkin' fella? if you are in your usual time zone, it's gettin' close to quittin' time. i recommend that you repair to a local brauhaus and savor one of those fine local beverages that are, oh, so expensive on this side of the pond. maybe several. as for me, about ten hours from now, i anticipate a fine dominican cigar. maybe two. if the band is in good form, three. ciao, rob Julian H. Stacey wrote: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" wrote: Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desist breaching FreeBSD list charter else you will be reported for blocking. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL "No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 when..." - Julian StaceyNet & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.
"Fafa Hafiz Krantz" wrote: > Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desist breaching FreeBSD list charter else you will be reported for blocking. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL "No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 when..." - Julian StaceyNet & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
