Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:06:02 -0400
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:45 AM, Erich Dollansky
>  > wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 07:55:10 +0100
> > Matthew Seaman  wrote:
> >
> > > On 06/10/2013 05:01, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> > > > this type is called 'design'. As an engineer I do the software
> > > > behind an website but I do not dare to make the design. Ok, I
> > > > tell the designer, when I think the design could be improved
> > > > but I do not dare th change it myself.
> > >
> > > The trick is to realise that site design is simply another form of
> > > engineering, albeint with rather different contexts and
> > > constraints than writing software.
> > >
> > > Writing a website so that the users can interact with it readily,
> > > find and understand what they wat, avoid frustration and have a
> > > pleasant overall experience is conceptually much the same sort of
> > > thing as writing a website so it doesn't hog server resources or
> > > continually fail ungracefully or have a badly indexed sub-optimal
> > > database schema. Basically you want it to do it's job efficiently
> > > and smoothly, whether 'it' is the back-end server code, or the
> > > on-screen presentation.
> > >
> > > Granted, optimizing sites for human interaction is a whole
> > > different skill set, but it's not some holy task that only some
> > > annointed designer with the mandate of heaven can undertake.
> >
> > yes, it is not rocket science but - as you said - a different skill
> > set.
> >
> > Erich
> >
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering
> 
> The first sentence :
> 
> *Software engineering* (*SE*) is the application of a systematic,

this is the mistake made here. We - at least me - talk about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_design

Nobody mentioned the software behind. Only the search function is
mentioned very often as being behind current standards.

Erich

> disciplined, quantifiable approach to the design, development,
> operation, and maintenance of software
> , and the study of these
> approaches; that is, the application of
> engineeringto
> software.
> 
> 
> Thank you very much .
> 
> Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 07:55:10 +0100
Matthew Seaman  wrote:

> On 06/10/2013 05:01, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> > this type is called 'design'. As an engineer I do the software
> > behind an website but I do not dare to make the design. Ok, I tell
> > the designer, when I think the design could be improved but I do
> > not dare th change it myself.
> 
> The trick is to realise that site design is simply another form of
> engineering, albeint with rather different contexts and constraints
> than writing software.
> 
> Writing a website so that the users can interact with it readily, find
> and understand what they wat, avoid frustration and have a pleasant
> overall experience is conceptually much the same sort of thing as
> writing a website so it doesn't hog server resources or continually
> fail ungracefully or have a badly indexed sub-optimal database schema.
> Basically you want it to do it's job efficiently and smoothly, whether
> 'it' is the back-end server code, or the on-screen presentation.
> 
> Granted, optimizing sites for human interaction is a whole different
> skill set, but it's not some holy task that only some annointed
> designer with the mandate of heaven can undertake.

yes, it is not rocket science but - as you said - a different skill set.

Erich
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Matthew Seaman]

On 06/10/2013 05:01, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> this type is called 'design'. As an engineer I do the software behind
> an website but I do not dare to make the design. Ok, I tell the
> designer, when I think the design could be improved but I do not dare
> th change it myself.

The trick is to realise that site design is simply another form of
engineering, albeint with rather different contexts and constraints
than writing software.

Writing a website so that the users can interact with it readily, find
and understand what they wat, avoid frustration and have a pleasant
overall experience is conceptually much the same sort of thing as
writing a website so it doesn't hog server resources or continually fail
ungracefully or have a badly indexed sub-optimal database schema.
Basically you want it to do it's job efficiently and smoothly, whether
'it' is the back-end server code, or the on-screen presentation.

Granted, optimizing sites for human interaction is a whole different
skill set, but it's not some holy task that only some annointed designer
with the mandate of heaven can undertake.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey




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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Eitan Adler]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 12:31 AM, Erich Dollansky
 wrote:
> the content of the first e-mail in this threat. It gives the impression
> that the site is bad because some 50% 'bounce'.

Mea Culpa.

My entire email was meant to be informative and provoke questions -
not to say that any one stat was good or bad.  I did not mean to imply
that bounce = bad.

> I consider the front ends always as design and would never allow an
> engineer to do one. Let the engineers build the cars but let designers
> design them. Would you like to drive a car like the Tin Lizzy?

Design needs to be driven by data.


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 15:06:55 +1100
Kubilay Kocak  wrote:

> On 6/10/2013 1:29 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:17:34 +1100
> > Kubilay Kocak  wrote:
> > 
> >> On 4/10/2013 1:38 AM, Rodrigo OSORIO wrote:
> >>> Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking
> >>> for ?"
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thats a good question Rodrigo and right on point.
> >>
> >> Bounce rates, without also identifying *legitimate* (and/or
> >> desirable) exit points cant alone help us determine if a user has
> >> achieved their objective or not.
> >>
> > I am one of the many 'bounced' users. The front page shows already
> > very often what I want to know. Security notes, the current
> > supported versions and news. Why should I read then things I am not
> > interested in?
> 
> You shouldnt, though im intrigued as to who or what gave you the
> impression that you should? :)

the content of the first e-mail in this threat. It gives the impression
that the site is bad because some 50% 'bounce'.
> 
> > But there is something missing. There is no 'entry' point for
> > potential new users.
> 
> +1 on this point. Additionally, new users are but one dimension of one
> demographic of a diverse customer base. You want to see understand the
> forest *and* the trees.
> 
> >> Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
> >> differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins
> >> to place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of
> >> success.
> >>
> >> You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.
> > 
> > I disagree here. A website is not a piece of engineering.
> 
> If by engineering you mean not serving a purely technical endeavour, I
> can't agree more.

I consider the front ends always as design and would never allow an
engineer to do one. Let the engineers build the cars but let designers
design them. Would you like to drive a car like the Tin Lizzy?
> 
Erich
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Kubilay Kocak]

On 6/10/2013 1:29 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:17:34 +1100
> Kubilay Kocak  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/10/2013 1:38 AM, Rodrigo OSORIO wrote:
>>> Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking
>>> for ?"
>>>
>>
>> Thats a good question Rodrigo and right on point.
>>
>> Bounce rates, without also identifying *legitimate* (and/or desirable)
>> exit points cant alone help us determine if a user has achieved their
>> objective or not.
>>
> I am one of the many 'bounced' users. The front page shows already very
> often what I want to know. Security notes, the current supported
> versions and news. Why should I read then things I am not interested in?

You shouldnt, though im intrigued as to who or what gave you the
impression that you should? :)

> But there is something missing. There is no 'entry' point for potential
> new users.

+1 on this point. Additionally, new users are but one dimension of one
demographic of a diverse customer base. You want to see understand the
forest *and* the trees.

>> Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
>> differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins to
>> place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of success.
>>
>> You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.
> 
> I disagree here. A website is not a piece of engineering.

If by engineering you mean not serving a purely technical endeavour, I
can't agree more.

Understanding your audience and their goals however, requires effort
*and* intentional intrumentation (I use this term intentionally by
technical analogy), whether that takes the form of surveys, feedback
forms, social engagement, PR's, forums or otherwise.

User interaction with our biggest "front-of-house" is just one more
example, and where we can make the biggest impact.

Koobs
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 23:37:52 -0400
Eitan Adler  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Erich Dollansky
>  wrote:
> >> Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
> >> differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins
> >> to place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of
> >> success.
> >>
> >> You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.
> >
> > I disagree here. A website is not a piece of engineering.
> 
> Yes it is.  Of a different type.

this type is called 'design'. As an engineer I do the software behind
an website but I do not dare to make the design. Ok, I tell the
designer, when I think the design could be improved but I do not dare
th change it myself.

Erich
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Eitan Adler]

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Erich Dollansky
 wrote:
>> Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
>> differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins to
>> place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of success.
>>
>> You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.
>
> I disagree here. A website is not a piece of engineering.

Yes it is.  Of a different type.

Here is an introduction to the topic of "Website Engineering":
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-101-introduction-to-usability/


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:17:34 +1100
Kubilay Kocak  wrote:

> On 4/10/2013 1:38 AM, Rodrigo OSORIO wrote:
> > Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking
> > for ?"
> > 
> 
> Thats a good question Rodrigo and right on point.
> 
> Bounce rates, without also identifying *legitimate* (and/or desirable)
> exit points cant alone help us determine if a user has achieved their
> objective or not.
> 
I am one of the many 'bounced' users. The front page shows already very
often what I want to know. Security notes, the current supported
versions and news. Why should I read then things I am not interested in?

But there is something missing. There is no 'entry' point for potential
new users.

> Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
> differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins to
> place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of success.
> 
> You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.

I disagree here. A website is not a piece of engineering.

Erich
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Kubilay Kocak]

On 4/10/2013 1:38 AM, Rodrigo OSORIO wrote:
> Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking for ?"
> 

Thats a good question Rodrigo and right on point.

Bounce rates, without also identifying *legitimate* (and/or desirable)
exit points cant alone help us determine if a user has achieved their
objective or not.

Among other things, marking actions on pages with GA labels will
differentiate many of these cases from the pathological and begins to
place 'our user goals' *first* as the primary definition of success.

You cant manage or improve what you dont measure.

--
Koobs
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Julian H. Stacey]

Christopher Henderson wrote:
> Hello Unix Fans,
> 
> I'm an on again/off again BSD/Linux user.  I'll spend a few years in one, 
> then 
> the other, etc.  I'm getting the FreeBSD itch again so I visited the website. 
>  
> One big problem for me is that there is no obvious link from the front page 
> listing supported hardware.  I finally stumbled upon the release notes but 
> its 
> just a flat text file.  Why not HTML?  I hated having to scroll through it to 
> find out if my wifi card is supported (Alas, it is not.  But OpenBSD supports 
> it.).  

Yes, I just went that route searching for a driver, hard work,
have a look at http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/txt/driver_search.html

Turns out one wireless driver (urtwn, Realtek RTL8188CU/RTL8192CU
USB IEEE 802.11b/g/n, Belkin F7D1102 Surf Wireless Micro D-Link
DWA-131 Edimax EW-7811Un Netgear WNA1000M Realtek RTL8192CU Realtek
RTL8188CUS ) was never put in 9 but is in FreeBSD 10 Alpha release,
if you'r luck may be the same one I found.  I just downloaded a 10
.iso alpha to try.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com
 Reply below not above, like a play script.  Indent old text with "> ".
 Send plain text.  No quoted-printable, HTML, base64, multipart/alternative.
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Christopher Henderson]

Hello Unix Fans,

I'm an on again/off again BSD/Linux user.  I'll spend a few years in one, then 
the other, etc.  I'm getting the FreeBSD itch again so I visited the website.  
One big problem for me is that there is no obvious link from the front page 
listing supported hardware.  I finally stumbled upon the release notes but its 
just a flat text file.  Why not HTML?  I hated having to scroll through it to 
find out if my wifi card is supported (Alas, it is not.  But OpenBSD supports 
it.).  That is my only real complaint.  The general design hasn't changed 
since the 90s when I first discovered FreeBSD 3.3 but I don't see that as a bad 
thing.  The NetBSD site was in bad need of an overhaul.  I like the new look.

On a final note, I have a BSD tattoo if anyone is interested.  I don't know if 
it is appropriate to share a picture on this thread.

Sincerely,
~Christopher

On Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:14:48 AM Eitan Adler wrote:
> Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
> 
> Some takeaways:
> 
> - More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> users spend more time than any other user per page.
> - Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> their time on the last page.
> 
> From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> something very specific.
> How can we fix this? Better search maybe?  Improved navigation bar?
> Its up to you to work on this.
> 
> - New users spend a lot *less* time on the site than repeat visitors.
> 
> Do we need better advocacy data?  Less text to confuse new users?  Is
> this trend specific to FreeBSD or is it true across the board?
> 
> - Internet Explorer is 10% of our traffic.
> 
> Many of ours users use Windows as there primary desktop platform.
> Probably more if we include not-IE on Windows.
> 
> What other insights do you see?
> What other data might be helpful for us?

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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi, 
Eitan Adler wrote:
> Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
> 
> Some takeaways:
> 
> - More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> users spend more time than any other user per page.
> - Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> their time on the last page.
> 
> >From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> something very specific.
> How can we fix this?

Thanks for raising the interest Eitan.

I've always considered the 'new' (2005) FreeBSD web front page bad,
obstructive, hiding better simpler pages beyond.  I've always assumed
the front page detered some newcomers, so much so I've often told
people to ignore the nasty front page as best they can. Pre 2005 was better
http://www.berklix.org/freebsd.org/
(Disclaimer: I had no hand in pre or post 2005 front page).

2005 was first knocked up by a summer student to then fashionable
corporate bland style. Probably he'd just been taught that's what
industry wanted, was polishing his resume, & showing he knew HTML
tricks, eg a squint eyed font size.  I recall some FreeBSD people
then were taking themselves too seriously, & finding a corporate
style web page projected a supposed serious [business style] image
they liked. Sigh.

PS Ref. squint eyed web page:
  One should Leave the default font size - default size ! not
  shrunken !  The reader should decide what size he/she wants to
  scale his browser, not have some fool young web page writer who
  knows nothing of readers eye condition force some readers to
  squint.  By all means add some href'd A A A
(ref http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ )
  But leave font default size Not shrunken by default.

Having "Site Map" in light grey font is dumb !
Harder to read. Not all eyes are young, though most web designers are.
"Site Map" should move next to Search box.

FreeBSD is not flogging products to suits, we're promoting a free
& fun OS & experience, with intellectual challenge/ opportunity.
Catch the interest of techies/ nerds/ geeks/ hackers browsing mid
evening now, & next year we catch their business bosses, who they
tell "Hey you could make/ save money leveraging on this"; But a
corporate format squint eyed front page is not going to attract
lots of casual browsers to read on, whether they're hackers or
suits.

Colour:
  A spot more colour would be nicer (aka 2005) (though I do Not mean 
  eg Dark blue or red text on black background one occasionaly sees :-)

  Better use of colour : Remove all the excremental 
  directives that precede  Better search maybe?

Certainly needed !
Search on FreeBSD.org has been half broken for many years, often
little or nothing useful & lot of irrlevance , I prefer an external
search engine & tell it to look on freebsd.org domain.  I imagine
there will be 2 camps: to keep our internal search, & for external
search, so I suggest put a 2nd search box parallel to the first, &
let people searching choose.

After I saw Net & Open had integrated a google box on their sites
years back (& it worked better than FreeBSD internal search), I
added external search on http://www.berklix.org - it was quick easy.
(I know monopolies eg google are bad, so if anyone knows alternative
search engines easy to embed, let's hear ? (I have a list of some
searchers here, maybe some have interfaces ? : http://berklix.com/search/
))


> Improved navigation bar?
> Its up to you to work on this.

Toss the front page, Start over in the style of 2005


> - New users spend a lot *less* time on the site than repeat visitors.

I'd expect that.

> Do we need better advocacy data?  Less text to confuse new users?  

Remove irrelevance like "new commiter" to a developers page or drop
down menu, it's Not of wide public interest.

Regular column "Upcoming Events" usually has too much wated white space.

In the first sentence we lose the public:
 "FreeBSD is an advanced operating system for modern server, desktop,
 and embedded computer platforms."

Platforms ? FreeBSD is good for trains ?

Study tabloid newspapers. Keep titles short !
Avoid Americanisms where often more verbose than English.

s/Upcoming Events/Events[ Coming]/  or /Future Events/ (8/6 ;-)
s/Latest News/News/ Or also offer "Boring Old News" ;-)
s/Get FreeBSD Now/Get FreeBSD/  Or also offer Get Next Month ;-)
s/In The Media/Press/
s/a large team of individuals/a large team/ 'individuals' is implicit.

"Based on BSD UNIX 'R'" Add 2 hrefs.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix


> Is
> this trend specific to FreeBSD or is it true across the board?
> 
> - Internet Explorer is 10% of our traffic.
> 
> Many of ours users use Windows as there primary desktop platform.
> Probabl

Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Eitan Adler]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Remko Lodder  wrote:
>
> On Oct 3, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Eitan Adler  wrote:
>
>> Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
>> http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
>>
>> Some takeaways:
>>
>> - More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
>> without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
>> users spend more time than any other user per page.
>> - Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
>> but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
>> their time on the last page.
>>
>> From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
>> something very specific.
>> How can we fix this? Better search maybe?  Improved navigation bar?
>> Its up to you to work on this.
>>
>> - New users spend a lot *less* time on the site than repeat visitors.
>>
>> Do we need better advocacy data?  Less text to confuse new users?  Is
>> this trend specific to FreeBSD or is it true across the board?
>>
>> - Internet Explorer is 10% of our traffic.


A graph of visitor flow and falloff:
http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/reports/report-10.01-flow.pdf

Which pages people visit and how long they stay there:
http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/reports/report-10.01-pages.pdf

This is the same report but sorted by "most time spent on page" and
filtered to exclude pages that match "^/cgi"
http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/reports/report-10.01-most-time.pdf

Of note: if you sort by "most time spent on page" you get man pages




-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Adam Vande More]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Eitan Adler  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Remko Lodder  wrote:
> > I thought we were going to see 
>
> There is a lot more information around.  I must ask permission for
> each and every report I send in public.  I already asked to share some
> tables regarding visitor path, most used pages, etc.
>
> Also, I am not an SEO / web page analytics expert.  I need more advice
> on what you want / need to see.


I don't have any insight into the numbers presented.  I think if there is
action to "improve" them then some accompanying A/B or other testing to
valid the results.



-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Eitan Adler]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Remko Lodder  wrote:
> I thought we were going to see 

There is a lot more information around.  I must ask permission for
each and every report I send in public.  I already asked to share some
tables regarding visitor path, most used pages, etc.

Also, I am not an SEO / web page analytics expert.  I need more advice
on what you want / need to see.


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Remko Lodder]

On Oct 3, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Eitan Adler  wrote:

> Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
> 
> Some takeaways:
> 
> - More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> users spend more time than any other user per page.
> - Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> their time on the last page.
> 
> From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> something very specific.
> How can we fix this? Better search maybe?  Improved navigation bar?
> Its up to you to work on this.
> 
> - New users spend a lot *less* time on the site than repeat visitors.
> 
> Do we need better advocacy data?  Less text to confuse new users?  Is
> this trend specific to FreeBSD or is it true across the board?
> 
> - Internet Explorer is 10% of our traffic.
> 
> Many of ours users use Windows as there primary desktop platform.
> Probably more if we include not-IE on Windows.
> 
> What other insights do you see?
> What other data might be helpful for us?

I thought we were going to see what pages are being hit the most, what kind of 
search
patterns people use to find us (and pages we host), so that we can anticipate 
that there
are perhaps searches that we do not provide content with effectively, or that 
the "download"
and "security information" pages are being requested most often, so that we can 
make sure
that vital and accurate information is printed there. 

For me, your PDF does not say anything at all, because the why's cannot be 
filled in with this
information. What were people looking for and what did they hit? "Download 
FreeBSD" and
getting the page "Why contribute to FreeBSD" doesn't satisfy the download 
request so we should
adopt it.

Nice graphs, useless information (imo).

Remko

> 
> -- 
> Eitan Adler
> ___
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-- 
/"\   With kind regards,| re...@elvandar.org
\ /   Remko Lodder  | re...@freebsd.org
XFreeBSD| http://www.evilcoder.org
/ \   The Power to Serve| Quis custodiet ipsos custodes



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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Darren Pilgrim]

On 10/3/2013 8:14 AM, Eitan Adler wrote:

Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf

Some takeaways:

- More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
users spend more time than any other user per page.


In the Google-driven world, this is normal.  Users search Google for the 
FreeBSD.org page they want and Google does a pretty amazing job of 
finding it.


Interestingly, that freebsd.org gets a lot of bounces indicates the 
information is organized, stable, reliably searchable, and labelled 
well.  These are very good things that are a lot less common than they 
should be.  It also means the site makes deep bookmarks reliable.


As such a user, I use Google to find, say, the errata pages or the 
release cycle data and just go to those pages directly.  I also have the 
FTP site listing and the send-pr page bookmarked.




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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[AJ Castro-Chandri]

A "side suggestion":
If the vBulletin Forum archives could be turned off, it would help.
Thing is, those archives come up in google results.
Many times, people find the archive pages (which are "bland") instead of
the actual thread.
http://forums.freebsd.org/archive/index.php

Although the information *is* there, I think it's better to have people see
the forums instead of the archives.
I've seen this done with other vBulletin forum installations elsewhere, and
I think it's good practice.
I believe it's in vBulletin Options --> in that list of options, there's
one called Search Engine Friendly Archive.
Selecting that one, the first option is Forum Archive Enabled, set to No.
Here's a reference link:
http://www.vbseo.com/f34/how-completely-turn-off-vbulletin-archive-24545/


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Rodrigo OSORIO  wrote:

> On 03/10/13 16:35 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:
> > >From: Eitan Adler 
> > >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:14:48 -0400
> > >Subject: About FreeBSD.org visitors
> > >To: FBSD Doc project ,
> > >"freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org"
> > > 
> > >
> > >Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> > >http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
> > >
> > >Some takeaways:
> > >
> > >- More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> > >without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> > >users spend more time than any other user per page.
> > >- Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> > >but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> > >their time on the last page.
> > >
> > >>From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> > >something very specific.
> > >How can we fix this?
> >
> > Fix what?
> > What is the problem?
>
> Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking for ?"
>
> Do you have statistics about how often unique users come back ?
>
> >
> > Anton
> > ___
> > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-advocacy-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
>
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Rodrigo OSORIO]

On 03/10/13 16:35 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:
> >From: Eitan Adler 
> >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:14:48 -0400
> >Subject: About FreeBSD.org visitors
> >To: FBSD Doc project ,
> >"freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org"
> > 
> >
> >Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> >http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
> >
> >Some takeaways:
> >
> >- More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> >without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> >users spend more time than any other user per page.
> >- Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> >but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> >their time on the last page.
> >
> >>From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> >something very specific.
> >How can we fix this?
> 
> Fix what?
> What is the problem?

Maybe the question is : "have they found what they are looking for ?"

Do you have statistics about how often unique users come back ?

> 
> Anton
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Anton Shterenlikht]

>From: Eitan Adler 
>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:14:48 -0400
>Subject: About FreeBSD.org visitors
>To: FBSD Doc project ,
>"freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org"
> 
>
>Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
>http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
>
>Some takeaways:
>
>- More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
>without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
>users spend more time than any other user per page.
>- Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
>but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
>their time on the last page.
>
>>From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
>something very specific.
>How can we fix this?

Fix what?
What is the problem?

Anton
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Royce Williams]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 7:14 AM, Eitan Adler  wrote:
>
> Here is an overview of the people that visit FreeBSD.org:
> http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/Report-10.01.pdf
>
> Some takeaways:
>
> - More than half (60%) the people that come to our website leave
> without going to another page (called 'bouncing').  However these
> users spend more time than any other user per page.
> - Non-bouncing users had an average of just over 4 pages per session
> but spent about an average of 0.86/s per page.  They spend most of
> their time on the last page.

This seems normal; they drill down until they find what they want, use
it, and then leave.

> From these I think we can take away that most people come looking for
> something very specific.
> How can we fix this? Better search maybe?  Improved navigation bar?
> Its up to you to work on this.
>
> - New users spend a lot *less* time on the site than repeat visitors.
>
> Do we need better advocacy data?  Less text to confuse new users?  Is
> this trend specific to FreeBSD or is it true across the board?
>
> - Internet Explorer is 10% of our traffic.
>
> Many of ours users use Windows as there primary desktop platform.
> Probably more if we include not-IE on Windows.
>
> What other insights do you see?
> What other data might be helpful for us?

Specifics of which end pages are the popular ones would be
enlightening.  If we can put ourselves in the shoes of people going to
specific pages, we can work on highlighting other content that's
useful for their use cases.

GA used to provide a graph that showed actual flows, with thicker and
thinner flow arrows based on percentage of traffic.  Is that still
available?

Royce
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