Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:37:17 + (UTC)
Apostolic Seeker via freebsd-advocacy 
wrote:

> Last year, during my transition away from Windows, having heard
> recommendations for both FreeBSD and Linux, I found myselfblocked
> from many Twitter accounts. After some research and asking around, it
> turned out I was on a blacklist simply for interacting with "wrong
> people" on Twitter. This lead back to a representative of FreeBSD,
> "FreeBSDGirl", and that she was supported by your developers.  She
> was rather verbally aggressive when I reached out to her. Because of
> this negative experience, I opted not to try FreeBSD and installed
> Linux, which I have now been using for almost a year.
> 
> I have long since removed my Twitter account, leaving me able to see
> beyond the blacklist again. I see this person, now "Randi Lee
> Harper", speaking of a code of conduct on Twitter. I cannot
> understand why her behavior is tolerated, and find myself unable to
> reconcile this with the high praises I have heard of FreeBSD, and
> with a code of conduct.
> 
sounds like the good, old Blockwarts are back in town.

Erich
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Apostolic Seeker via freebsd-advocacy]

Last year, during my transition away from Windows, having heard recommendations 
for both FreeBSD and Linux, I found myselfblocked from many Twitter accounts. 
After some research and asking around, it turned out I was on a blacklist 
simply for interacting with "wrong people" on Twitter. This lead back to a 
representative of FreeBSD, "FreeBSDGirl", and that she was supported by your 
developers.  She was rather verbally aggressive when I reached out to her. 
Because of this negative experience, I opted not to try FreeBSD and installed 
Linux, which I have now been using for almost a year.

I have long since removed my Twitter account, leaving me able to see beyond the 
blacklist again. I see this person, now "Randi Lee Harper", speaking of a code 
of conduct on Twitter. I cannot understand why her behavior is tolerated, and 
find myself unable to reconcile this with the high praises I have heard of 
FreeBSD, and with a code of conduct.

Sincerely,
Johann
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Poppy Faria]

If having a code of conduct means that all of this nonsense will stop, then I'm 
in favor. However, I disagree with the idea of there being a code of conduct 
based on any political ideologies instead of an agreed upon fabric of moral and 
ethical decency.

But seriously guys, please stop. I'm tire of getting notifications on my phone 
every five minutes just because a bunch of people have horrible and tasteless 
accusations to throw at eachother. Everyone, please, just stop it. I think I'm 
being reasonable here.

16.07.2015, 21:29, "Randi Harper" :
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav  wrote:
>
>>  Johannes Jost Meixner  writes:
>>  > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
>>  > against,
>>
>>  There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
>>  those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
>>  against when you are part of a 99% majority?
>
> It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his
> campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked
> by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women,
> however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on this
> mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty
> laundry, despite him repeatedly trying.
>
> A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was some
> MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night.
> He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a
> snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques.
> This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account
> was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will
> be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol at
> me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's made
> it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further
> harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing.
>
> The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a
> reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread,
> several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started
> posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by
> cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say
> and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been
> threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success.
> Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh?
>
> Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I
> could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet
> culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open
> source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people
> would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very
> loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural
> change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However,
> women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below
> the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to
> be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very
> clear by this mailing list discussion.
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Stephen Perry]

Very reasonable actually. If I keep getting this kind of crap from this mailing 
list I'm going to withdraw from it and cease any personal advocacy for FreeBSD 
going forward through social media and professional contacts.



On Jul 16, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Poppy Faria  wrote:

If having a code of conduct means that all of this nonsense will stop, then I'm 
in favor. However, I disagree with the idea of there being a code of conduct 
based on any political ideologies instead of an agreed upon fabric of moral and 
ethical decency.

But seriously guys, please stop. I'm tire of getting notifications on my phone 
every five minutes just because a bunch of people have horrible and tasteless 
accusations to throw at eachother. Everyone, please, just stop it. I think I'm 
being reasonable here.

16.07.2015, 21:29, "Randi Harper" :
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav  wrote:
>> 
>>  Johannes Jost Meixner  writes:
>>  > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
>>  > against,
>> 
>>  There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
>>  those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
>>  against when you are part of a 99% majority?
> 
> It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his
> campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked
> by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women,
> however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on this
> mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty
> laundry, despite him repeatedly trying.
> 
> A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was some
> MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night.
> He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a
> snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques.
> This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account
> was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will
> be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol at
> me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's made
> it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further
> harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing.
> 
> The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a
> reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread,
> several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started
> posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by
> cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say
> and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been
> threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success.
> Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh?
> 
> Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I
> could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet
> culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open
> source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people
> would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very
> loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural
> change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However,
> women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below
> the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to
> be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very
> clear by this mailing list discussion.
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Johannes Jost Meixner]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256



On 07/16/2015 23:29, Randi Harper wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav  > wrote:
> 
> Johannes Jost Meixner  > writes:
>> I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also
>> discriminated against,
> 
> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five
> of those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be
> discriminated against when you are part of a 99% majority?
> 
> 
> It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part
> of his campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he
> knows I was asked by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to
> target and harass women, however, myself included. This will be my
> single post on the matter on this mailing list, because this is not
> the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty laundry, despite him
> repeatedly trying.

(Please see http://imgur.com/a/q8Z1u for reference.)

I am not harassing women. I am actively mentoring THREE female friends
of mine to set up their own businesses here in Eastern Europe.

I have been targeted by you, have been libelled in public, and cannot
afford an attorney to *force* you to stop.

You've cost me, personally, a whooping $2'560 USD *so far*, on one of
my clients' contracts. When are you going to pay me for the damage I
incurred, directly, because of your actions?

You have done enough harm. If you were to just stop, I would walk away
immediately.

Alas, since your being asked by core to "keep quiet", you have
continued to do the very thing I asked you, in public, to stop --

harassing the other side, namely males that think differently than you d
o.

I am not on the GamerGate site, have not been, will not be.

You are framing me as if I were. I don't *care* what stuff is going on
there, and after my interactions with people who *are* on the
GamerGate side,

I find them about as annoying as I found my previous interactions with
you.


> 
> A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It
> was some MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him
> before that night. He had posted a picture of a black boy child
> getting raped along with a snarky statement. We focus more on dev
> policies and mitigation techniques. This was an extreme case,
> however. We responded, and this person's account was quickly
> suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will be
> boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of
> vitriol at me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to
> contribute because he's made it his mission to seek out abusive
> people and drive them to further harassment. This is who he's
> siding with. This is what he's contributing.

You know, I filed a suspension request with Twitter for your account,
because the amount of harmful things you post (see
http://imgur.com/a/q8Z1u for reference) could clearly be considered as
libel, slander, defamation, and many of the things you accuse this guy
of doing.

That request has been denied by Twitter, because, again, some animals
are more equal than others.

> 
> The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but 
> instead a reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the
> images. In this thread, several people from GamerGate and people
> outside the project had started posting about SJWs and bigotry
> before it was eventually moderated by cperciva@. However, he's very
> determined to find fault in anything I say and find a way to direct
> it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been threatening me and
> constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success.
> Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird,
> huh?

I do understand that this "male tears" post of yours was not in
relation to myself personally. Do you really think that "collecting
male tears" creates good advocacy for the FreeBSD project, which is -
as DES so kindly stated, 99% male for the time being?

I would love to be in a position to bring in some of the women I have
had the chance to work with, during my 15 months as ports committer.

Alas, I have not been in that position so far. Chances are, I will not
be, mainly due to YOUR very active involvement.


> 
> Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate 
> harassment, I could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. 
> Unfortunately, internet culture is what it is, and it takes time
> to change, one company or open source project at a time. I wish I
> could say that I'm shocked that people would object to a Code of
> Conduct as Johannes did several times - very loudly - but I'm
> really not. People dislike change, especially cultural change that
> challenges their social position. It's understandable. However,
> women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls
> below the average. If the project wants to change that, the
> environment needs to be made more welcoming to w

Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Randi Harper]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav  wrote:

> Johannes Jost Meixner  writes:
> > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
> > against,
>
> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
> those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
> against when you are part of a 99% majority?
>

It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his
campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked
by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women,
however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on this
mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty
laundry, despite him repeatedly trying.

A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was some
MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night.
He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a
snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques.
This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account
was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will
be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol at
me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's made
it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further
harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing.

The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a
reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread,
several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started
posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by
cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say
and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been
threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success.
Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh?

Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I
could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet
culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open
source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people
would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very
loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural
change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However,
women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below
the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to
be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very
clear by this mailing list discussion.
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Tony Theodore]

> On 17 Jul 2015, at 02:38, Johannes Jost Meixner  wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> As requested, an imgur album of the tweets in question, because no one
> seems to be able to read the original attachments of Randi Harper's
> "celebrating" the release of the Code of Conduct.
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/XBOen

Now I’m completely lost. It took me a while to click that link for fear of 
where it would lead…

> Yes, I know I could take this with a grain of salt, and that I could
> relax and take it as the joke that everyone else here seems to
> understand. However, this joke is in no language known to me so far.

I don’t get the “joke” either (happens to me a lot), but I can appreciate the 
levity of a cutesy costume.

“Male tears” ===  “Power to Serve”, show me you get that.

> How would the world like it if I celebrated this same code of conduct,
> collecting "female tears”?

Try it and see. Do you want to collect female tears?

> I bet, if I were to post that, I would have generated a huge shitstorm
> in doing that.

Really, try it and see. FreeBSD Advocacy is not the platform to place such bets.

> But then, equality exists only in parts, and some
> animals are more equal than others.


Exactly. Think very, very, very hard about that statement.

Cheers,

Tony

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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Johannes Jost Meixner]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

As requested, an imgur album of the tweets in question, because no one
seems to be able to read the original attachments of Randi Harper's
"celebrating" the release of the Code of Conduct.

http://imgur.com/a/XBOen

Yes, I know I could take this with a grain of salt, and that I could
relax and take it as the joke that everyone else here seems to
understand. However, this joke is in no language known to me so far.

How would the world like it if I celebrated this same code of conduct,
collecting "female tears"?

I bet, if I were to post that, I would have generated a huge shitstorm
in doing that. But then, equality exists only in parts, and some
animals are more equal than others.



-  Forwarded Message ----
Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:53:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeremy C. Reed 
To: Johannes Jost Meixner 

> Screenshots of the material in question attached.

They were not attached. Just the detached signatures.

See the archive also only shows the two .sig files
https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=0+0+current/freebsd-advoca
cy+raw
(I am guessin that generic URL will change soon.)


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Version: GnuPG v2

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FUG4nfptAX4+0BwDIUll8fQ/4+2eroZ6Zfmzk/t9AI0hik/cZNNLwWvvtotI+k2B
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Chad J. Milios]

I think you created detached signatures by mistake. Against all my better 
judgement, I’m curious to see the .png’s and somehow I’m sure I’m not the only 
one. You’ll no doubt forgive me for failing to more closely follow this drama.

> On Jul 15, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Johannes Jost Meixner  
> wrote:
> 
> Screenshots of the material in question attached.

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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Chris Benesch]

This is a tough thing to be in the middle of, but lets look at the 
facts.  I moderated a forum for years, and it had no clearly defined 
goal like this community, so it was nothing but people poking sticks at 
each other and/or local government.


1 . Randi basically called Johannes a "whiny little prick".  Sorry I 
couldnt see the attachments he provided but based on her responses, I 
dont think I'm far off.


2 . Johannes says that she should stop because we have a code of conduct 
that prohibits that.


Whoever is a majority or minority or whatever doesnt matter.  This is 
about the good of our operating system that we know and love.  If people 
want to fight, insult, date each other, or discuss the latest episode of 
Friends, do it on the appropriate forum or through traditional email.  
I'm a nobody, I contributed to pstree ten years ago when AIX5L came 
out.  All I am saying is dont feed the troll, and most of all, dont let 
the immature actions of one individual sabotage valuable work to an 
important cause.  There are a lot of personality types involved here, 
and just because you dont like them as a friend isnt what this is all 
about.  If you dont like them, dont talk to them, simple as that.  
Personal attacks have no place here.  And yes, Randi, those are personal 
attacks, no matter how much you try to intellectualize them.


On 7/16/2015 6:52 AM, Edelwin Khaelos wrote:

There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
against when you are part of a 99% majority?



So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person
actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? 
That's like

very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and
discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same 
rights

simply because he's a male.

I think that's realy bad thing.


Congratulations, you totally missed the point :)

You are saying that a person belonging to a *ruling* majority is being 
discriminated against in their own ruling majority by a concept which 
denounces a whiny and hypocrite behaviour (male tears: when a member 
of this ruling majority tries ‑unsuccessfully‑ to impersonate an 
oppressed minority when their ruling position is in jeopardy).


(good luck in you life, by the way, because this kind of behaviour 
only works on the Internet… or at least that's what you thought ;)

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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Edelwin Khaelos]

There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
against when you are part of a 99% majority?



So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person
actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? That's like
very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and
discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same rights
simply because he's a male.

I think that's realy bad thing.


Congratulations, you totally missed the point :)

You are saying that a person belonging to a *ruling* majority is being 
discriminated against in their own ruling majority by a concept which 
denounces a whiny and hypocrite behaviour (male tears: when a member of 
this ruling majority tries ‑unsuccessfully‑ to impersonate an oppressed 
minority when their ruling position is in jeopardy).


(good luck in you life, by the way, because this kind of behaviour only 
works on the Internet… or at least that's what you thought ;)

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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Marin Bernard]

This is a highly subjective point of view. People are responsible for
what they release publicly. Many people, men and women, feminist or
not, disagree with this kind of communication. As a male, feminist, pro
-LGBT individual, I do. And I really do understand Johannes' position.

A Code of conduct must apply to anybody. And it must apply even
stronger if you own any important position. I could change my profile
picture to this http://bit.ly/1Lc6B3V or that http://bit.ly/1Mcf0ob,
and then pretend that's some kind of subtle irony because, as a gay
boy, I'm unable to hate women. The move wouldn't be smart, of course.
It would probably be damageable to my own reputation, but not to the
community, as I'm Mr. Nobody. As an influential member of the community
though, and even more as an Online Abuse Prevention Expert, people
would get quite a different message. I think that's what happens with
the "male tears" thing. Believe it or not, it may offense people. Not
everybody; certain people.

I'm not involved in the FreeBSD community, even if it might change in
the future. Like other people, I only subscribed to the ML to stay up
to date. As a result, I have a very detached point of view on the
situation. The whole communication about all this is a disaster: it
convinced me to give myself some time to think before getting more
involved. I'm probably not the only one to feel that way. The whole
Code of conduct idea is really great. It's too bad that people in
charge of it have such selective, fixed ideas of what may or may not
hurt people. I expect them to be overcome their own personal views on
that matter; that's why they are here.

Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 à 18:29 +0200, Edelwin Khaelos a écrit :
> Hello Johannes,
> The concept of quote "male tears" unquote makes fun of people 
> identifying (and recognized as) males in the society who complain 
> about 
> being oppressed (in a patriarchal society). This is of course a 
> highly 
> ironical term. You can read more at 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_f
> eminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html 
> 
> and to quote this article:
> « Ironic misandry is “a reductio ad absurdum”[…]. “It's inhabiting 
> the 
> most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order 
> to 
> show that it's ridiculous.” ».
> 
> Yes, you can chill out, you are not going to be hunted for your tears 
> by 
> a horde of feminists as if you were the white rhinoceros :)
> 
> Le 15/07/2015 13:45, Johannes Jost Meixner a écrit :
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> > 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a
> > human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be
> > respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers.
> > 
> > However...
> > 
> > The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on
> > gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that
> > interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and 
> > impersonal
> > .
> > 
> > 
> > Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to 
> > collect
> > quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the
> > advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for
> > making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair 
> > that
> > was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that 
> > person
> > has gone too far.
> > 
> > 
> > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
> > against, because the action so taken has shown that the person 
> > taking
> > this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value 
> > it
> > in the slightest.
> > 
> > 
> > Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice 
> > before
> > posting this email.
> > 
> > 
> > If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this
> > person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with
> > consent of the FreeBSD community,
> > 
> > 
> > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD
> > project, including but not limited to
> > 
> > - - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made 
> > it
> > into the portstree -so far-
> > 
> > - - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing 
> > bugs
> > (last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt)
> > 
> > - - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as 
> > maintaining
> > *any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 
> > months
> > of hard work,
> > 
> > - - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in 
> > Estonia
> > with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn 
> > Technical
> > University,
> > 
> > - - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation.
> > 
> > 
> > I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct,
> > and in that the very members who advocate for it -- ki

Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Alex de Kruijff]

On 16-07-2015 13:14, Big Lebowski wrote:

Johannes Jost Meixner  writes:

I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
against,

There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
against when you are part of a 99% majority?


So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person
actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? That's like
very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and
discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same rights
simply because he's a male.

He has a point. The following quote is from the movie Philidephia: "This 
is the essence of discrminiation formulating oppions on others not based 
on there individual merrits, but rather on there membership of a group 
with the same charakteristics."


Saying you feel discriminated agains implies that you are being juged on 
your membership of a group.


Alex
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Johannes Jost Meixner]

If the Code of Conduct does not protect me as an individual against the 
discriminations of another individual, whatever their sex, gender, political 
orientation, sexual preference, it is not worth the paper it is written on.

My own sex, gender, political orientation, sexual preference is completely 
irrelevant to this topic.

If the core team does not seem my contributions worthy of respect, and my 
personal honor worthy of protection against discrimination from any one team 
member whatever their current contributions or positions they uphold,

I leave. 

The loss is the project's to take into account.

With this you are setting a dangerous precedent with this issue, where one 
individual can take more than 400 others hostage and force their - feminist, 
and beyond that, EXPLICITLY anti-male (cf. Attachments of the original post) - 
opinion on everyone else, regardless of their country of origin, their personal 
beliefs, and their own morals.

What do you think is going to happen?

That across all times, I have been the first to suffer this treatment? That I 
will be the last?

FreeBSD thinks it is an open and inclusive community. I have had the chance of 
working with a few very bright, female, contributors, who have not yet been 
brought into the project. They will be, and they will happily join the ranks of 
ports and source committers.

But they too will be wondering... What if they express any opinion that does 
not conform to the main party line? Will they have to give up their commit bits 
as well? Should they even speak up against any deficits and serious nuisances, 
if they are doomed to be silenced and spoken down to, for having that opinion 
and making it public?

I seriously do not think any of this is what you actually intend to do when the 
code of conduct as it is published mentions that FreeBSD is, quote, a 
meritocracy, unquote. 

Whether I see any merit in Randi Harper being a member of this project, I think 
I have made this clear. Whether anyone else sees any merit in me in keeping on 
contributing is a question that, thankfully, DES cannot unanimously answer.

Regards
Johannes
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Dag-Erling Smørgrav]

Johannes Jost Meixner  writes:
> I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
> against,

There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of
those are women.  How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated
against when you are part of a 99% majority?

> I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD
> project, including but not limited to

/r/theredpill is ---> thataway.  Don't let the door hit you on the way
out.

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no
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Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct...

[Edelwin Khaelos]

Hello Johannes,
The concept of quote "male tears" unquote makes fun of people 
identifying (and recognized as) males in the society who complain about 
being oppressed (in a patriarchal society). This is of course a highly 
ironical term. You can read more at 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_feminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html 


and to quote this article:
« Ironic misandry is “a reductio ad absurdum”[…]. “It's inhabiting the 
most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order to 
show that it's ridiculous.” ».


Yes, you can chill out, you are not going to be hunted for your tears by 
a horde of feminists as if you were the white rhinoceros :)


Le 15/07/2015 13:45, Johannes Jost Meixner a écrit :

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Dear all,

I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a
human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be
respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers.

However...

The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on
gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that
interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and impersonal
.


Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to collect
quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the
advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for
making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair that
was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that person
has gone too far.


I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated
against, because the action so taken has shown that the person taking
this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value it
in the slightest.


Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice before
posting this email.


If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this
person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with
consent of the FreeBSD community,


I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD
project, including but not limited to

- - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made it
into the portstree -so far-

- - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing bugs
(last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt)

- - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as maintaining
*any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 months
of hard work,

- - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in Estonia
with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn Technical
University,

- - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation.


I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct,
and in that the very members who advocate for it -- kick it with their
own feets.


Screenshots of the material in question attached.



- --
Best regards,

Johannes Meixner

“If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if
you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees
buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft
with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier
the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?"

"I…don't know. What…could he do? What would you tell him?"

"To shrug.”
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