Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Aldis Berjoza al...@bsdroot.lv wrote: This is interesting, and could be mentioned in updated page http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=linux_games_bsdnum=1 -- Aldis Berjoza http://www.bsdroot.lv/ Anything gonna be done with this? It has promise but needs some more people involved. -- Chris Brennan A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Need a README to explain items in download directory
On 9/3/2011 5:11 PM, Craig Rodrigues wrote: FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-bootonly.iso - Initial boot, fits on CD, requires disc 1 FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-disc1.iso- Installer, fits on CD, requires bootonly FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-dvd1.iso.xz- Complete installer, fits on DVD FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-livefs.iso- Live file system, boot and run off of CD/DVD, used for recovery FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-memstick.img - Installer for USB memory stick Your on the right track, lets be a little more verbose/correct 1. FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-bootonly.iso - Requires an Internet Connection 2. FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-disc1.iso - Full Installer, includes all files to install base. 3. FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-dvd1.iso.xz - DID-sized image, includes Base+Packages (not entire collection) 4. FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-livefs.iso - Live file system, boot and run off of CD/DVD, used for recovery # Good Enough 5. FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-memstick.img - Installer for USB memory stick # Same as above That wordy page you skimmed over, I believe it explains what these all do. It's great that your interested in FreeBSD, but keep in mind, FreeBSD isn't for the lighthearted or impatient and reading is a necessity. The handbook is almost required reading, it will answer almost all of your very basic questions. -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Need a README to explain items in download directory
On 9/3/2011 6:36 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora might be a good start for what to write, as well as http://www.ubuntu.com/download (the Ubuntu site is incredibly user friendly -- I would choose that over the Fedora site). Thanks! -Garrett Personally, I wouldn't choose either of these, but that's just a preference, I like neither of them as a project. FreeBSD, Debian or Gentoo would be my choices. -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Need a README to explain items in download directory
On 9/3/2011 7:12 PM, Adam Vande More wrote: On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@crodrigues.org mailto:rodr...@crodrigues.org wrote: For this line: (1) FreeBSD-8.2-RELEASE-i386-bootonly.iso - Requires an Internet Connection Does this mean that this ISO has the minimal stuff to boot, and then do an install by downloading packages over the Internet? I really don't know, that's why I'm asking. :) What this should have said was that it is a *boot-to-installer* only ISO image, designed to be burned to optical media. A *network* connection is required (LAN/WAN depending on where you will be installing from) *or* you will have to provide a 'local source[1]' for the install to pull BASE packages from. [1] Local source can be an NFS mounted partition, local hard-drive with the base packages, etc... where-ever the BASE install files are located. While such wording may be helpful to a new user over completely absent directions, it's technically flawed. You don't need an internet connection, but rather a network connection or some other form of installation media. You are correct Adam. I was a little too basic. If such a README is to be implemented, I could find myself writing some correct descriptions ... perhaps a pr is in order? -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On 8/31/2011 8:07 AM, Martin Sugioarto wrote: Am Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:34:54 -0400 schrieb Chris Brennan xa...@xaerolimit.net: the object is to show people *WHY* FreeBSD is a sound (and valid) choice against the competition, we can't just claim we're better because we know we are, we have to provide a convincing argument that is true and honest fact. Hi Chris and all the others, I want to suggest that you shouldn't compare every single feature about FreeBSD kernel. You should not also try to lie to people about vendor support, because it's not worth mentioning, when you compare it to many Linux distributions. Don't tell people there are games and don't tell them that FreeBSD can replace Microsoft Windows, please. My argument wasn't designed to compare every little feature of FreeBSD to other OS's of choice, but to show, in an overall comparison where FreeBSD stands, both positive and negative in retrospect to our competition. That can give us a look at the system as it is and see what's broke, not in real time, but in a post-time aspect, as the competition may see it. I *never* advocated we lie to anyone, perhaps you misunderstood me when I was saying we should be *honest* about the comparison. But I am left with two questions now; 1. Why should we not tell them that games are available on FreeBSD? 2. Why should we not advocate *BSD or Linux as an alternative to Windows? OS X? As to Vender support, all I think we should do is a simple list (with links) of who is confirmed as to use FreeBSD. Of course this would direct traffic, so we would need to take care as to make sure that a) FreeBSD could handle the traffic from Vendors directing people to freebsd.org and that b) they can handle the traffic we direct to them. It would look bad for both us and them if one or the other cause one (or both) to disappear due to a traffic overload. (In reality, this might not happen, but better to expect the worst...) I like to advertise FreeBSD, but I try to do it honestly, because it will send the wrong signals. My arguments were for an honest comparison, and I thought I made that *abundantly* clear. I guess I missed something when I proofread my e-mail. You should compare what you can *DO* better with FreeBSD. And one thing that comes instantly into my mind is the FreeBSD port collection (for my part). I've tried various Linux distributions for years and there is no such thing as FreeBSD ports in Linux world (portage comes close, but it lacks integrity sometimes). And that's why after using other OSes, I always arrived back on FreeBSD. The effort which is going into ports is amazing and (for me) the most important part of the OS. FreeBSD is one of few systems where you can have configurable up-to-date applications and this is what I need. And this is mostly the reason why I use FreeBSD. Absolutely, you are correct. FreeBSD Port collection is a diamond in the rough, the gem that gives us light (in a sense at last). Gentoo's portage does come close, and it does this because the concept is based on the FreeBSD Ports collection. I suggest that you look at the applications of FreeBSD in the world. How people use it and why the decided to use it. I heard many people prefer FreeBSD on web servers (yeah, Netcraft also says so). But why? One thing FreeBSD will always have over Linux, OS X and Windows is Age, we all will get older, but FreeBSD will still be the eldest child. With age comes Wisdom? There are all kinds of adages to go here, take your pick, fill in the black, use what ever floats your boat. But you are right, testimonials would be ideal, but they have an inherent flaw in them. They can be easily faked. So how do we get passed this? You tell me that FreeBSD has the best IPv6 implementation? So what?! Please tell me what you do with it, when it's so great. I can't answer this one, I know very little about IPv6 still, but I agree, you do make a valid argument, we should be told what we can do with it in plain speak, not technobable that will confuse the uninitiated, which would be unfair to them. The handbook does try to cover this concept, by usage language that is familiar to a broad spectrum of people. Maybe some of this should be reviewed and updated? Jails are nice, yes! There are surely scenarios where jails are needed above every other concept. Instead of telling people about lightweight virtualisation... tell them what others do with it. Sure, no reason not to. Maybe a FreeBSD sanctioned (and maintained) howto guide for the (above) uninitiated that teaches end-users how to use jails from the start, from an absolutely fresh install of FreeBSD, start with jailing the most obvious services and then move to a loose construct that will allow them to jail other services on their own. Show them how, hold their hand (at first) and then give them the tools to do the work on their own. If they get stuck, they can always fallback to that howto guide where they know
Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On 8/31/2011 1:43 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby miham...@rktmb.org wrote: On 08/30/2011 08:30 PM, Hartmann, O. wrote: I would be scared away by such an arrogant looking page! So, refactoring this page is a must. 1°) Put it offline? (i.e with a At work placeholder) 2°) Process a feature list on one table column, leaving N columns emtpy for N other OS, waiting for skills to contribute? Yes and yes. I would start out with the FreeBSD highlights first and foremost, then we can move on to compare it (in a positive light) to other contemporary OSes. It should be noted on the FreeBSD side of the comparison, whom has borrowed concepts from FreeBSD, such as the network stack or Gentoo's Portage system (just to name a few that come to mind.) -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On 8/30/2011 10:30 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: On 08/30/2011 05:21 PM, Hartmann, O. wrote: On 08/30/11 12:31, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: On 08/30/2011 12:59 PM, Hartmann, O. wrote: But I also express my opinion that updating such a document should be done by a third party. I slightly disagree with that. No problem Who else than the developer/core team members know better about what's in and what's not in the FreeBSD box? So, for a features listing, it's OK. I really agree on turning it into a feature list. For a _comparison_, I think it's up to somewhere else: To really compare, it's mandatory to really now the multiple compared items. Who cares about the latest MS Windows internals (deep networking capability, filesystem tricks, kernel scheduler specs,...) in here? I migh be wrong, but IMHO core devs and power users wont spend time to deeply investigate on the other systems. Again, just an opinion. As a casual user and a staunch supporter, I would strongly disagree with you here. if a third party wiki (even Wikipedia) contained such a comparison, I would question it's validity moreso then if the project itself were to maintain a release-based comprison of currently supported branches (7.x, 8.x, 9.x*, etc) vs a selected choice of mainstream Linux Distro's, OS X Server and Windows 2003/2008. But this comparison can't be trivial, it has to be genuine, authentic, (peer reviewed across the board if possible), backed up by fact (links back to other reputable sources). In short, it's a monumental undertaking and may require the work of many dedicated people (new/active marketing team?) It should very much be done by FreeBSD as a project and should be taken seriously as a marketing technique, the object is to show people *WHY* FreeBSD is a sound (and valid) choice against the competition, we can't just claim we're better because we know we are, we have to provide a convincing argument that is true and honest fact. -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On 8/30/2011 12:21 PM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: On 08/30/2011 06:34 PM, Chris Brennan wrote: But this comparison can't be trivial, it has to be genuine, authentic, (peer reviewed across the board if possible), backed up by fact (links back to other reputable sources). In short, it's a monumental undertaking Yep, it's not trivial... and right now, I have no idea to make it easier... I do have any idea ... but I don't want to be the one spearheading such a project, I lack the technical skills or the professional expertise to lead this project, but I will certainly contribute if and where possible... -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html
On 8/30/2011 2:48 PM, Sean M. Collins wrote: On 8/27/11 3:32 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. I think that it also clashes with the positive tone that (I've experienced) in most of the website copy, discussions on this mailing list, and other parts of the FreeBSD project. We have an awesome project, we don't really need to put down everyone else to make ourselves look good. I wasn't implying a putdown and I don't think Garrett Cooper was either, he was merely pointing out that the technology in use today (Tuesday, August 30th, 2011) varies, radically from when http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html was written way back, sometime in the year 2000. The comparison being called for to be updated, needn't be that type of comparison. If in the end, FreeBSD comes out as truly and honestly better then so be it, it turns out to be the under-appreciated underdog, then so be it too. An argument made (by us, the FreeBSD community) to point out the pros and cons of common OS types would undoubtedly hurt and benefit us as a project, but it would also illustrate why FreeBSD is good for applications A-F[1], Linux is good for A-F[1] (but for different reasons), OS-X is good for applications A-C and Microsoft Windows is good for A-C. This is a volunteer project that takes in some monetary values for certain things, but is largely a non-profit/not-for-profit organization aimed at providing a service. Clearly and objectively defining where we stand against our competition should be a major (but not or if not, take your pick) a priority of the project as a whole. If no one else has done it, then we should. Just because we can (and maybe because we should, just because we can). Oliver Heartmann has made some good points, but I tend to disagree with his philosophy. Such a project as this needn't be centered around a monetary base. This isn't a project to start mass-marketing FreeBSD to the mindless masses, but to provide prospective to the Server OS Communities, not to alienate someone because we think we're better. I also disagree with his idea that 'we should let sleeping dogs lie' and not bother to do any of this. It's something we (as a community-driven project) should have done a long time ago. What I do agree with in his views is that such a project should contain some historical perspective, we should always remember where we came from, it's a fundamental aspect to remember so we know where we are going, but that shouldn't be the only factor, at the very basic, we also need to know where we stand at present, not just in cold, hard, unfeeling numbers. But a project that thrives on diversity, much as the societies we live in. Arguments will rise, tempers will flare, people might leave (and fork, as is their right), but FreeBSD will still be here, no less then it was before (except in a slightly diminished user-base for a while). This said, everyone on these mailing lists has an experience that can be contributed to this project[2]. It does not have to be limited to just the FreeBSD Developers describing why we're superior to any other OS (and it rightly shouldn't be just their opinion). In reality, it should be a hodgepodge of opinion from every walk of life. Every person that has participated in this discussion has had different experiences with Microsoft products, BSD products, Apple products and Linux products. And those opinions and experiences are what's going to count. I think I've run out of steam for the moment ... so I shall stop here. [1] Any X-Y definition is not meant to provide any form of clearly defined values to any one OS but to illustrate hypothetical examples. [2] I repeatedly defined this discussion as project because I couldn't think of a different term to use that would aptly and/or correctly describe this discussion. -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD-9.0-BETA1-i386-bootonly
On 8/10/2011 10:44 AM, N V wrote: Hi. Tried to use FreeBSD-9.0-BETA1-i386-bootonly.iso in VirtualBox to test. Installation stops after trying to fetch files from ftp. Attached screenshot is informative, I think. Seems to use i386/ twice for some reason. Regards, Vans. Your screenshot didn't make it to the list, can you upload it and provide us with a link to it instead? -- Chris Brennan -- A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/ GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: console freeze after ifconfig wlan0 scan with wi(4) pccard device
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Anton Shterenlikht me...@bristol.ac.ukwrote: but still can't connect to the gateway: PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1): 56 data bytes ping: sendto: No route to host ping: sendto: No route to host ping: sendto: No route to host ^C --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100.0% packet loss After you get the IP, assign a default gw route add default gw 192.168.1.1 that should do it hth/c- ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: why panic(9) ?
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk wrote: On 12/01/2011 16:23, Erik wrote: On one of my first linux desktops, I had a screensaver which displayed rotated dumpscreens of all kinds of different Operation systems. Apple, Basic, linux and BSOD.. (come to think about it BSD was not included) I once had someone commiserate with me on having so many problems with my desktop while running that screen saver... Later versions of the BSoD screen saver certainly did have a pretty convincing FreeBSD panic and dump sequence. IIRC, it's still alive and well in the xscreensaver port ... I remember seeing it a few times ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: lockup with vidcontrol VESA_800x600
Did you try http://www.freebsdwiki.net/index.php/High_Resolution_Console? -- Sent from my Droid On Jan 9, 2011 6:58 AM, Marc UBM Bocklet ubm.free...@googlemail.com wrote: Hiho! :-) Yesterday I upgraded to FreeBSD hostname 9.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT #28: Sat Jan 8 17:05:30 CET 2011 and vidcontrol VESA_800x600 stopped working (again). I exchanged emails with jkim about a similar problem in February 2010 (vidcontrol VESA_800x600 would mangle the screen output), there was no definitive resolution, but it started working again sometime around July 2010. Now however, when I try to set VESA_800x600, my machine seems to lockup. It no longer responds to any input, I cannot ping it and I cannot drop to the debugger. I've tried setting other modes, but trying to set them results in: obtaining new video mode parameters: operation not supported by device. graphics card is a: vgap...@pci0:1:0:0: class=0x03 card=0x013a1002 chip=0x514c1002 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc. / Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.' device = 'Radeon 8500 / 8500LE (R200)' class = display subclass = VGA Any clues what might have changed? Bye Marc -- Marc UBM Bocklet ubm.free...@gmail.com -- Marc UBM Bocklet ubm.free...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: lockup with vidcontrol VESA_800x600
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Marc UBM Bocklet ubm.free...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:45:52 -0500 Chris Brennan xa...@xaerolimit.net wrote: Did you try http://www.freebsdwiki.net/index.php/High_Resolution_Console? Yeah, those are the kernel settings that I've been using since approx. 2004 :-). But the wiki page yielded a new data point - trying to set MODE_280 (which corresponds to 1024x...@24 on my system, too) locks the system up just as well. Thanks bye, Marc Weird because I have this working fine on my amd64 laptop w/ 8.1. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
