Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
Steve,
I was wrong to freak out so badly at your suggestion. I can give you an
explanation for why but it was wrong for me to do so.
I thought that the doc was better than it was and so I couldn't understand
and flashed to anger rather than listening.
So even so, my tone is well below the standard I try to set for myself: so
it was doubly wrong. I've been doing it a lot this year, guess I'm not
coping as well as I thought with the times. It's no excuse, though, and I'm
sorry.
I felt bad about over-reacting so I came back to things fresh today. On
fresh reading, your suggestions are good ones. Very similar to the ones I
came to after spending some quality time trying to edit the document you'd
offered the suggestion to. The content and focus isn't quite right there. I
spent a couple hours trying to fix it, only to find myself in a dead end I
couldn't puzzle my way out of before quitting for the day... I'll give it
another try over the weekend or next week.
So please accept my apology for being a jerk, yelling at you in a truly
unprofessional way and screaming when I should really have been listening.
Again, anything I say by way of explanation doesn't justify it at all.
Warner
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 11:11 AM Warner Losh wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Steve Kargl <
> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > A short intro on git for svn users:
>> > > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence.
>> > >
>> > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic
>> > > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book.
>> >
>> > This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer,
>> > which has as its first sentence:
>> > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic
>> operation of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book.
>> >
>> > As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick
>> > reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or
>> > introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS.
>>
>> Like GCC, which did the svn to git dance at start of the year,
>> FreeBSD is throwing away a decade+ of corporate knowledge of
>> working with svn and /usr/src. What is needed is a succinct
>> translation of the most common svn commands translated to git.
>>
>> Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
>>
>> svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
>>
>> git ...
>>
>> Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
>>
>> svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
>>
>> git ...
>>
>> Creating diff against updated head.
>>
>> svn update
>> svn diff > patch.diff
>>
>> git ...
>>
>> Adding a new file
>>
>> svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
>>
>> git ...
>>
>> Committing a change to /usr/src
>>
>> svn update
>> svn diff | more (everyone does one last check, right?)
>> svn commit
>>
>> git ...
>>
>
> This is an insultingly stupid comment to make. We don't need people to say
> the obvious.
>
> This sort of comment isn't helpful. People will just ignore you if you
> make too many of them like it.
>
> Warner
>
>
>
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 11:40:17AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > To the contrary 5 years ago the project on @developers basically > ran off one of the committers over the very idea of using git > for the project. It was shortly after I returned, so I find it > very ironic that now its all "git git git and we being heading > to this for 5 years" Five years ago "all of my friends say that" was given as a fact, when it was actually an anecdote. That was why people (including myself) were opposed to it. Last year FreeBSD took a user survey. That contained data. And AFAIK that was the basis of the decision. Plus, the industry had changed in the ensuing 4 years. mcl ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
> > > > On Sep 1, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 13:14:10 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > >> We've been updating the svn-git converter and pushing out a new > >> converted repo every two weeks, and are now approaching the time where > >> we'd like to commit to the tree generated by the exporter, > >> ... > > > > Somehow I've missed this development. Reading between the lines, it > > seems that we're planning to move from svn to git, but I can't recall > > seeing any announcement on the subject. Can you give some background? > > It would also be nice to find a HOWTO both for the migration and for > > life with git. > > We?ve been talking about the transition for about 5 years now. So far, only > people interested in git have showed up to do any work at all. Subversion has > lost, and even Apache, the main users of it, are moving to git. We started > early in the year with the firm plans and have been working on it since then. > These conversations have happened all over the place, and we?ve been posting > to developers for months now... To the contrary 5 years ago the project on @developers basically ran off one of the committers over the very idea of using git for the project. It was shortly after I returned, so I find it very ironic that now its all "git git git and we being heading to this for 5 years" Would you expect those opposed to this idea to help with it? Really? > There?s some draft guides, but they need work which is on my plate. They are > OK, but have some issues on the more complicated bits. > > Warner -- Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
> The underlying initializing 'git init' commit hash must be > signed by security officer key having sufficient human PGP-WoT. > > Git also supports sha-256 soon now, adoption should > be researched from various online article series and > work product before committing plans... > https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ > https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition For those interested, additional topical from same site... https://github.com/bk2204/git/tree/transition-stage-4 https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ Updating the Git protocol for SHA-256 https://lwn.net/Articles/811068/ A new hash algorithm for Git https://lwn.net/Articles/715716/ Moving Git past SHA-1 https://lwn.net/Articles/813646/ Attestation for kernel patches https://lwn.net/Articles/821367/ Merkle trees and build systems https://lwn.net/Articles/663875/ Changes in the TLS certificate ecosystem, part 1 https://lwn.net/Articles/468911/ Sovereign Keys for certificate verification https://lwn.net/Articles/652580/ Decentralization for the web ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 09:47:06AM -0700, Steve Kargl wrote:
> Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
>
> svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
git checkout ssh://u...@git.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
> Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
>
> svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
git checkout https://git.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
> Creating diff against updated head.
>
> svn update
> svn diff > patch.diff
git pull
git diff >patch.diff
> Adding a new file
>
> svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
git add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
> Committing a change to /usr/src
>
> svn update
> svn diff | more (everyone does one last check, right?)
> svn commit
git pull
git add -A # add all files, even new ones
# alternative would be "git add "
git diff --cached
git commit
I "assumed" that u...@git.freebsd.org is valid, but depending on
configuration of the server, g...@git.freebsd.org might be the right one.
Someone with actual knowledge (and I'm looking at Ed) will fill in the
right details.
If needed for any doc/example/howto, feel free to copy these examples
where suites best FreeBSD project/developers or tell me what to edit.
Regards,
meka
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 08:01:17AM +0200, Kurt Jaeger wrote: > A short intro on git for svn users: > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view For people like me that will not click on random URLs ... ... just feed "svn to git cheat-sheet" to your favorite search engine. Disclaimer: my initial experience with the Github UI has been a disaster. mcl ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
> Am 02.09.2020 um 18:22 schrieb Warner Losh : > > > >> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Ed Maste wrote: >> >> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl >> wrote: >>> A short intro on git for svn users: https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view >>> >>> ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence. >>> >>> New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic >>> operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book. >> >> This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer, >> which has as its first sentence: >>> New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic operation >>> of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book. >> >> As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick >> reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or >> introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS. > > The rest of the guide walks people through how to do the job, but without all > the theory for the basics. > > Again it needs some work for the advanced topic it currently just omits… > Sorry, but I had to think of this: https://xkcd.com/1597/ The project was announced a while back in the quarterly status report (that’s the first time I read about it at least). It’s obviously a huge undertaking, the people taking part in it should be commended, not ridiculed (IMO). For people who don’t have much exposure to git, it can be very obnoxious. Though these days, a lot of people assume git=github and the GUI there certainly makes things easier. If it wasn’t completely riddled with security-holes, I would recommend the project to run its own gitlab instance - but for a project this size, you’d be looking at a FTE just herding that bag of cats and constantly upgrading it… ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 01:38:09PM -0400, Theron wrote: > After the transition, will FreeBSD base contain the tool for the cloning the > FreeBSD repository (not one of the mirrors?) Just to throw it out there, https://gameoftrees.org/ would be interesting to explore for this. -- Mason Loring Blissma...@blisses.org They also surf, who only stand on waves. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
resending, because I clearly have no clue. On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Wed, 2020-09-02 at 14:45 -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > Seriously, Warner? > > > > Yes, seriously. We are adults. Act accordingly. > > > > Don't be confused. I also thought the message he was replying to was out of > > line. > > > > > I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that > > > has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen > > > what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending > > > cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he > > > summarized it in a completely practical way. > > > > We disagree. The message could have been worded without being negative. > > > > > This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I > > > think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it > > > because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few > > > commands to do anything with it. > > > > No, it's assumed you will learn. I did. We all can. > > > > Please, we cooperate on this project. We don't attack, and yes, these were > > attacks. > > > > > I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the > > > freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and > > > thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock > > > them and move on." > > > > I don't think so. I'm guessing I'm older and more set in my ways. > > > > There are much better ways to communicate that in recent messages. > > > > How typical: trim away ALL context of what's being discussed, then > claim that the material was offensive in some way after destroying the > contextual evidence that makes a lie of your claim. I apologize for the excessive trimming. I regret posting, but still persist in my call for improved methods. Umm, as for the rest... I don't know how to reply to that. -- Dan Langille d...@langille.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Wed, 2020-09-02 at 14:45 -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > Seriously, Warner? > > > > Yes, seriously. We are adults. Act accordingly. > > > > Don't be confused. I also thought the message he was replying to was out of > > line. > > > > > I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that > > > has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen > > > what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending > > > cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he > > > summarized it in a completely practical way. > > > > We disagree. The message could have been worded without being negative. > > > > > This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I > > > think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it > > > because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few > > > commands to do anything with it. > > > > No, it's assumed you will learn. I did. We all can. > > > > Please, we cooperate on this project. We don't attack, and yes, these were > > attacks. > > > > > I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the > > > freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and > > > thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock > > > them and move on." > > > > I don't think so. I'm guessing I'm older and more set in my ways. > > > > There are much better ways to communicate that in recent messages. > > > > How typical: trim away ALL context of what's being discussed, then > claim that the material was offensive in some way after destroying the > contextual evidence that makes a lie of your claim. I apologize for the excessive trimming. I regret posting, but still persist in my call for improved methods. Umm, as for the rest... I don't know how to reply to that. -- Dan Langille d...@langille.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:46 PM Dan Langille wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > Seriously, Warner? > > Yes, seriously. We are adults. Act accordingly. > I agree it was over the top. > Don't be confused. I also thought the message he was replying to was out > of line. > > > I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that > > has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen > > what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending > > cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he > > summarized it in a completely practical way. > > We disagree. The message could have been worded without being negative. > It could have been worded in a way that was actionable. > > This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I > > think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it > > because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few > > commands to do anything with it. > > No, it's assumed you will learn. I did. We all can. > > Please, we cooperate on this project. We don't attack, and yes, these were > attacks. > > > I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the > > freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and > > thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock > > them and move on." > > I don't think so. I'm guessing I'm older and more set in my ways. > > There are much better ways to communicate that in recent messages. > I agree. I apologize for my outburst. Just frustrated. Warner ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, 2020-09-02 at 14:45 -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > Seriously, Warner? > > Yes, seriously. We are adults. Act accordingly. > > Don't be confused. I also thought the message he was replying to was out of > line. > > > I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that > > has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen > > what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending > > cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he > > summarized it in a completely practical way. > > We disagree. The message could have been worded without being negative. > > > This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I > > think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it > > because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few > > commands to do anything with it. > > No, it's assumed you will learn. I did. We all can. > > Please, we cooperate on this project. We don't attack, and yes, these were > attacks. > > > I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the > > freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and > > thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock > > them and move on." > > I don't think so. I'm guessing I'm older and more set in my ways. > > There are much better ways to communicate that in recent messages. > How typical: trim away ALL context of what's being discussed, then claim that the material was offensive in some way after destroying the contextual evidence that makes a lie of your claim. -- Ian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:36 PM Ian Lepore wrote:
> On Wed, 2020-09-02 at 11:11 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Steve Kargl <
> > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > A short intro on git for svn users:
> > > > > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence.
> > > > >
> > > > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the
> > > > > basic
> > > > > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book.
> > > >
> > > > This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion
> > > > primer,
> > > > which has as its first sentence:
> > > > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the
> > > > > basic
> > >
> > > operation of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion
> > > Book.
> > > >
> > > > As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a
> > > > quick
> > > > reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or
> > > > introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated
> > > > VCS.
> > >
> > > Like GCC, which did the svn to git dance at start of the year,
> > > FreeBSD is throwing away a decade+ of corporate knowledge of
> > > working with svn and /usr/src. What is needed is a succinct
> > > translation of the most common svn commands translated to git.
> > >
> > > Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
> > >
> > > svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
> > >
> > > git ...
> > >
> > > Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
> > >
> > > svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head
> > > ${HOME}/freebsd/src
> > >
> > > git ...
> > >
> > > Creating diff against updated head.
> > >
> > > svn update
> > > svn diff > patch.diff
> > >
> > > git ...
> > >
> > > Adding a new file
> > >
> > > svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
> > >
> > > git ...
> > >
> > > Committing a change to /usr/src
> > >
> > > svn update
> > > svn diff | more (everyone does one last check,
> > > right?)
> > > svn commit
> > >
> > > git ...
> > >
> >
> > This is an insultingly stupid comment to make. We don't need people
> > to say
> > the obvious.
> >
> > This sort of comment isn't helpful. People will just ignore you if
> > you make
> > too many of them like it.
> >
>
> Seriously, Warner?
>
> I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that
> has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen
> what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending
> cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he
> summarized it in a completely practical way.
>
> This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I
> think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it
> because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few
> commands to do anything with it.
>
> I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the
> freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and
> thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock
> them and move on."
>
I'm just extra grumpy today.
First, the doc has what Steve requested already, so the high level
snarkiness isn't helpful.
Second, the doc isn't done, but there was no feedback on where in the doc
it isn't clear, so the message isn't helpful.
Third, you're reading too much into the first paragraph, which was copied
verbatim from the current guide.
That's what lead to my outburst.
Warner
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > Seriously, Warner? Yes, seriously. We are adults. Act accordingly. Don't be confused. I also thought the message he was replying to was out of line. > I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that > has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen > what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending > cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he > summarized it in a completely practical way. We disagree. The message could have been worded without being negative. > This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I > think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it > because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few > commands to do anything with it. No, it's assumed you will learn. I did. We all can. Please, we cooperate on this project. We don't attack, and yes, these were attacks. > I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the > freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and > thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock > them and move on." I don't think so. I'm guessing I'm older and more set in my ways. There are much better ways to communicate that in recent messages. -- Dan Langille d...@langille.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 11:11:50AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Steve Kargl < > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > This is an insultingly stupid comment to make. We don't need people to say > the obvious. > > This sort of comment isn't helpful. People will just ignore you if you make > too many of them like it. > I don't find it insulting at all. I have 15+ years experience using svn with both GCC and FreeBSD repositories. GCC changed from svn and git with little regard to its impact on developers (except for those pushing the move to git). gfortran has lost one of its most active bug fixer/contributors because he knows 0 about git. By extension FreeBSD lost one of the few users that actually tried to ensure GCC works on FreeBSD (hopefully, people don't use g++'s complex math without testing!). -- Steve ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, 2020-09-02 at 11:11 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Steve Kargl <
> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A short intro on git for svn users:
> > > > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence.
> > > >
> > > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the
> > > > basic
> > > > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book.
> > >
> > > This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion
> > > primer,
> > > which has as its first sentence:
> > > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the
> > > > basic
> >
> > operation of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion
> > Book.
> > >
> > > As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a
> > > quick
> > > reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or
> > > introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated
> > > VCS.
> >
> > Like GCC, which did the svn to git dance at start of the year,
> > FreeBSD is throwing away a decade+ of corporate knowledge of
> > working with svn and /usr/src. What is needed is a succinct
> > translation of the most common svn commands translated to git.
> >
> > Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
> >
> > svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
> >
> > git ...
> >
> > Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
> >
> > svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head
> > ${HOME}/freebsd/src
> >
> > git ...
> >
> > Creating diff against updated head.
> >
> > svn update
> > svn diff > patch.diff
> >
> > git ...
> >
> > Adding a new file
> >
> > svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
> >
> > git ...
> >
> > Committing a change to /usr/src
> >
> > svn update
> > svn diff | more (everyone does one last check,
> > right?)
> > svn commit
> >
> > git ...
> >
>
> This is an insultingly stupid comment to make. We don't need people
> to say
> the obvious.
>
> This sort of comment isn't helpful. People will just ignore you if
> you make
> too many of them like it.
>
Seriously, Warner?
I applaud Steve's message as being the first one in this thread that
has any real value at all. Unlike everyone else, he has clearly seen
what the basic problem is (zero communications about this impending
cutover to the people who need to work with it every day), and he
summarized it in a completely practical way.
This assumption that everyone knows how to use git is mind-boggling. I
think I installed it once, a few years ago. Then I uninstalled it
because of how abysmally hard it was to try to learn even a few
commands to do anything with it.
I guess Steve & I are a couple dinosaurs and the whole rest of the
freebsd user and committer community is laughing at our ignorance and
thinking "we don't need their contributions anyway, so let's just mock
them and move on."
-- Ian
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On 2020-09-02 12:47, Steve Kargl wrote:
Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
git ...
Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
git ...
"which svnlite" -> /usr/bin/svnlite
(from /usr/src/usr.bin/svn)
"which git" -> /usr/local/bin/git
(from /usr/ports/devel/git)
After the transition, will FreeBSD base contain the tool for the cloning
the FreeBSD repository (not one of the mirrors?)
Is there a plan to have 'git' or one of its clones added to the base system?
Surprisingly, I can't seem to find any prominent discussion / debate on
"git in base" (the tool itself).
Theron
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Steve Kargl <
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote:
> > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > A short intro on git for svn users:
> > > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view
> > > >
> > >
> > > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence.
> > >
> > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic
> > > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book.
> >
> > This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer,
> > which has as its first sentence:
> > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic
> operation of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book.
> >
> > As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick
> > reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or
> > introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS.
>
> Like GCC, which did the svn to git dance at start of the year,
> FreeBSD is throwing away a decade+ of corporate knowledge of
> working with svn and /usr/src. What is needed is a succinct
> translation of the most common svn commands translated to git.
>
> Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
>
> svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
>
> git ...
>
> Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
>
> svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
>
> git ...
>
> Creating diff against updated head.
>
> svn update
> svn diff > patch.diff
>
> git ...
>
> Adding a new file
>
> svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
>
> git ...
>
> Committing a change to /usr/src
>
> svn update
> svn diff | more (everyone does one last check, right?)
> svn commit
>
> git ...
>
This is an insultingly stupid comment to make. We don't need people to say
the obvious.
This sort of comment isn't helpful. People will just ignore you if you make
too many of them like it.
Warner
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl
> wrote:
> >
> > > A short intro on git for svn users:
> > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view
> > >
> >
> > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence.
> >
> > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic
> > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book.
>
> This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer,
> which has as its first sentence:
> > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic operation
> > of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book.
>
> As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick
> reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or
> introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS.
Like GCC, which did the svn to git dance at start of the year,
FreeBSD is throwing away a decade+ of corporate knowledge of
working with svn and /usr/src. What is needed is a succinct
translation of the most common svn commands translated to git.
Checking out /usr/src as u...@freebsd.org
svn checkout svn+ssh://u...@svn.freebsd.org/base/head /usr/src
git ...
Checking out /usr/src without freebsd.org account
svn checkout https://svn.freebsd.org/base/head ${HOME}/freebsd/src
git ...
Creating diff against updated head.
svn update
svn diff > patch.diff
git ...
Adding a new file
svn add /usr/src/libm/msun/src/_s_sinpi.c
git ...
Committing a change to /usr/src
svn update
svn diff | more (everyone does one last check, right?)
svn commit
git ...
--
Steve
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Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Ed Maste wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl > wrote: >> >>> A short intro on git for svn users: >>> https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view >>> >> >> ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence. >> >> New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic >> operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book. > > This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer, > which has as its first sentence: >> New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic operation >> of Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book. > > As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick > reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or > introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS. The rest of the guide walks people through how to do the job, but without all the theory for the basics. Again it needs some work for the advanced topic it currently just omits... Warner ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
> On Sep 1, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 13:14:10 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: >> We've been updating the svn-git converter and pushing out a new >> converted repo every two weeks, and are now approaching the time where >> we'd like to commit to the tree generated by the exporter, >> ... > > Somehow I've missed this development. Reading between the lines, it > seems that we're planning to move from svn to git, but I can't recall > seeing any announcement on the subject. Can you give some background? > It would also be nice to find a HOWTO both for the migration and for > life with git. We’ve been talking about the transition for about 5 years now. So far, only people interested in git have showed up to do any work at all. Subversion has lost, and even Apache, the main users of it, are moving to git. We started early in the year with the firm plans and have been working on it since then. These conversations have happened all over the place, and we’ve been posting to developers for months now... There’s some draft guides, but they need work which is on my plate. They are OK, but have some issues on the more complicated bits. Warner ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On 2 Sep 2020, at 17:18, Ed Maste wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 07:51, Mathieu Arnold wrote: >> >>> Git also supports sha-256 soon now, adoption should >>> be researched from various online article series and >>> work product before committing plans... >>> https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ >>> https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition >> >> "soon now" seems a bit vague, from what I have read on the subject, >> whilst the local repository operations are working with SHA256 hashes, >> it is still lacking remote transport, clones, and such. > > Yes, Git will migrate to SHA256 but will not be completely finished > sufficiently soon to matter for our needs. We'll eventually deal with > the migration the same way as everyone else. Note that Subversion *also* uses SHA1, and has suffered from hash collisions. Which at some point broke the WebKit repository, because somebody thought it was fun to tweak two PDF files to have exactly the same SHA1. This is why Subversion added a few hook scripts to prevent adding such files: https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/trunk/tools/hook-scripts/reject-known-sha1-collisions.sh?view=markup https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/trunk/tools/hook-scripts/reject-detected-sha1-collisions.sh?view=markup -Dimitry signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > A short intro on git for svn users: > > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view > > > > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence. > > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic > operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book. This doc started as a direct translation of the Subversion primer, which has as its first sentence: > New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic operation of > Subversion. If not, start by reading the Subversion Book. As with the Subversion primer the doc is intended to provide a quick reference for day-to-day commands, but not act as a reference or introduction to the entire theory of operation of the associated VCS. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 07:51, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > > > Git also supports sha-256 soon now, adoption should > > be researched from various online article series and > > work product before committing plans... > > https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ > > https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition > > "soon now" seems a bit vague, from what I have read on the subject, > whilst the local repository operations are working with SHA256 hashes, > it is still lacking remote transport, clones, and such. Yes, Git will migrate to SHA256 but will not be completely finished sufficiently soon to matter for our needs. We'll eventually deal with the migration the same way as everyone else. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 01:20:22AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > The underlying initializing 'git init' commit hash must be > signed by security officer key having sufficient human PGP-WoT. > > Git also supports sha-256 soon now, adoption should > be researched from various online article series and > work product before committing plans... > https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ > https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition "soon now" seems a bit vague, from what I have read on the subject, whilst the local repository operations are working with SHA256 hashes, it is still lacking remote transport, clones, and such. -- Mathieu Arnold signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 08:01:17AM +0200, Kurt Jaeger wrote: > Hi! > > > On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 13:14:10 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > > > We've been updating the svn-git converter and pushing out a new > > > converted repo every two weeks, and are now approaching the time where > > > we'd like to commit to the tree generated by the exporter, > > > ... > > > > Somehow I've missed this development. > > The list archive > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/ > > has additional information. > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/GitWorkflow > http://wiki.freebsd.org/UlrichSpoerlein/GitTalkDevSummit > > has more. The repo: https://cgit-beta.freebsd.org/ > > Freshports using git: > devgit.freshports.org > > A short intro on git for svn users: > https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view > ROTFL. From the "short intro", 2nd sentence. New committers are assumed to already be familiar with the basic operation of Git. If not, start by reading the Git Book. Define "short". -- Steve 20170425 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWUpyCsUKR4 20161221 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCHE-hONow ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
Hi! > On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 13:14:10 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > > We've been updating the svn-git converter and pushing out a new > > converted repo every two weeks, and are now approaching the time where > > we'd like to commit to the tree generated by the exporter, > > ... > > Somehow I've missed this development. The list archive https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/ has additional information. http://wiki.freebsd.org/GitWorkflow http://wiki.freebsd.org/UlrichSpoerlein/GitTalkDevSummit has more. The repo: https://cgit-beta.freebsd.org/ Freshports using git: devgit.freshports.org A short intro on git for svn users: https://hackmd.io/ML5TSl8mQ5-27B5eqDf7YA?view -- p...@opsec.eu+49 171 3101372Now what ? ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
The underlying initializing 'git init' commit hash must be signed by security officer key having sufficient human PGP-WoT. Git also supports sha-256 soon now, adoption should be researched from various online article series and work product before committing plans... https://lwn.net/Articles/823352/ https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Plans for git (was: Please check the current beta git conversions)
On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 13:14:10 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > We've been updating the svn-git converter and pushing out a new > converted repo every two weeks, and are now approaching the time where > we'd like to commit to the tree generated by the exporter, > ... Somehow I've missed this development. Reading between the lines, it seems that we're planning to move from svn to git, but I can't recall seeing any announcement on the subject. Can you give some background? It would also be nice to find a HOWTO both for the migration and for life with git. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA signature.asc Description: PGP signature
