Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-24 Thread Montgomery-Smith, Stephen 
On 12/23/18 1:27 AM, Stefan Esser wrote:
> Am 23.12.18 um 02:39 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
>> On 12/21/18 10:03 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
 The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
 Regards, STefan
>>>
>>> Thanks Stefan,
>>> I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
>>> & converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
>>>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
>>>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS
>>>
>>> Stephens diffs are essential, without them CTM broke long ago, 
>>> (5 digit numeric names maybe ?)
>>>
>>> I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
>>> automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
>>> running OK so far:
>>> ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz ;
>>> ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz
>>>
>>> Stephen may be best person to test delta builds, as hes the delta 
>>> originator.
>>>
>>> Soonish I'll set up a 
>>> [freebsd-]ctm-src-12 on http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo
>>> if Stephens' & my requests to postmaster @ & mailman @ freebsd.org
>>> continues to get no response.
>>
>> Thank you for doing this, Stefan.  The additional patches mentioned by
>> Julian need to be included with the port before it can work and be
>> tested.  They are absolutely needed for the svn ctm deltas.
> 
> Hi Stephen and Julian,
> 
> I have converted the diffs into port patches (make makepatch) and
> updated the man-page revision dates of ctm.8 and ctm_rmail.8.
> 
> The port update has been committed as r488168.
> 
> I hope this brings the port to the level required to make the CTM
> port usable again.
> 
> The patches could be imported to the Github repo (freebsd/ctm) after
> testing, but for now the patched port should suffice ...
> 
> Best regards, STefan

It seems to be working on the tests I have performed so far.
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-24 Thread Montgomery-Smith, Stephen 
On 12/24/18 3:32 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

> I see a discrepancy using ctm to extract, between ctm
> built on 9.2-RELEASE & ctm built {from both src or ports} on current.
> Just the 9.2-RELEASE ctm does not create 3 zero size files:
>   base/db/rep-cache.db-journal
>   doc/db/rep-cache.db-journal
>   ports/db/rep-cache.db-journal
> All 3 trees contain 15 other zero size files, so presumably the
> discrepancy is not to do with zero size files as such.
>   
> All 3 trees have no other files called rep-cache.db-journal
> 
> I created 3 new trees with
>   ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07300xEmpty.xz
> on all of { 9.2-RELEASE & ctm built {from src and ports} on current }
> All 3 trees are the same, with all 3 rep-cache.db-journal
> 
> Then upgrading to svn-cur 7307 with
>   ctm -q 
> /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xzthe 2 trees 
> on current had identical file lists with all 3 rep-cache.db-journal
> But again the tree in 9.2-RELEASE no longer included the 3 
> rep-cache.db-journal
> 
> Anyone know know if the discrepancy indicates something amiss with ctm ?
>   (rep-cache.db-journal presumably from SVN, maybe older & newer CTMs
>   have some different understanding that data i delivered from SVN ?
>   seems a bit dodgy that, I'd have thought best if CTM had no knowledge
>   what delivered its tree.)
> 

For these kinds of files, ctm is merely a wrapper around the "svnadmin"
command.  The diffs are created using "svnadmin dump", and applied using
"svnadmin load".  So the discrepancy is in how the svnadmin command works.

My guess is that it is a coincidence that these files are created in one
situation and not another, and that this doesn't effect the actual data
stored in the svn repositories.

But I don't know enough about svn to give an authoritative answer.

Stephen
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-24 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
I wrote:
> I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
> & converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS
> I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
> automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
> running OK so far:
>   ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz ;
>   ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz

I checked the new ctm was behaving, seems to be except something odd:

At about svn-cur.07303 or so 
  (I'm not certain on the exact number, I deleted it from my log,
   but this is reproducible, I've done it more than once, could
   again if necessary, it just takes a lot of time)

I see a discrepancy using ctm to extract, between ctm
built on 9.2-RELEASE & ctm built {from both src or ports} on current.
Just the 9.2-RELEASE ctm does not create 3 zero size files:
base/db/rep-cache.db-journal
doc/db/rep-cache.db-journal
ports/db/rep-cache.db-journal
All 3 trees contain 15 other zero size files, so presumably the
discrepancy is not to do with zero size files as such.

All 3 trees have no other files called rep-cache.db-journal

I created 3 new trees with
ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07300xEmpty.xz
on all of { 9.2-RELEASE & ctm built {from src and ports} on current }
All 3 trees are the same, with all 3 rep-cache.db-journal

Then upgrading to svn-cur 7307 with
ctm -q 
/pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xzthe 2 trees on 
current had identical file lists with all 3 rep-cache.db-journal
But again the tree in 9.2-RELEASE no longer included the 3 rep-cache.db-journal

Anyone know know if the discrepancy indicates something amiss with ctm ?
  (rep-cache.db-journal presumably from SVN, maybe older & newer CTMs
  have some different understanding that data i delivered from SVN ?
  seems a bit dodgy that, I'd have thought best if CTM had no knowledge
  what delivered its tree.)

---

Stefan wrote:
> I have converted the diffs into port patches (make makepatch) and
> updated the man-page revision dates of ctm.8 and ctm_rmail.8.
> 
> The port update has been committed as r488168.
> 
> I hope this brings the port to the level required to make the CTM
> port usable again.

Thanks I'll look.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant Sys.Eng. BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent
 First referendum stole 700,000 votes from Brits in EU;  3,700,000 globaly.
 Lies criminal funded; jobs pound & markets down. 1.9M new voters 1.3M dead.
 Email MP: "A new referendum will buy UK & EU more time (Art 50.3), to avoid
   a hard crash, & consider all options."  http://berklix.org/brexit/#mp
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-23 Thread Warner Losh 
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:27 AM Stefan Esser  wrote:

> Am 23.12.18 um 02:39 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> > On 12/21/18 10:03 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> >>> The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
> >>> Regards, STefan
> >>
> >> Thanks Stefan,
> >> I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
> >> & converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
> >>
> http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
> >>
> http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS
> >>
> >> Stephens diffs are essential, without them CTM broke long ago,
> >> (5 digit numeric names maybe ?)
> >>
> >> I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
> >> automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
> >> running OK so far:
> >>  ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz
> ;
> >>  ctm -q
> /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz
> >>
> >> Stephen may be best person to test delta builds, as hes the delta
> originator.
> >>
> >> Soonish I'll set up a
> >> [freebsd-]ctm-src-12 on http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo
> >> if Stephens' & my requests to postmaster @ & mailman @ freebsd.org
> >> continues to get no response.
> >
> > Thank you for doing this, Stefan.  The additional patches mentioned by
> > Julian need to be included with the port before it can work and be
> > tested.  They are absolutely needed for the svn ctm deltas.
>
> Hi Stephen and Julian,
>
> I have converted the diffs into port patches (make makepatch) and
> updated the man-page revision dates of ctm.8 and ctm_rmail.8.
>
> The port update has been committed as r488168.
>
> I hope this brings the port to the level required to make the CTM
> port usable again.
>
> The patches could be imported to the Github repo (freebsd/ctm) after
> testing, but for now the patched port should suffice ...
>

I'd prefer that we do that, since git is a lot easier for managing change
that diffs in the tree, but I guess it isn't too urgent as the churn rate
here will be small.

Warner
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-23 Thread Montgomery-Smith, Stephen 
On 12/21/18 10:03 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
>> The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
>> Regards, STefan
> 
> Thanks Stefan,
> I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
> & converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS
> 
> Stephens diffs are essential, without them CTM broke long ago, 
> (5 digit numeric names maybe ?)
> 
> I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
> automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
> running OK so far:
>   ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz ;
>   ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz
> 
> Stephen may be best person to test delta builds, as hes the delta originator.
> 
> Soonish I'll set up a 
> [freebsd-]ctm-src-12 on http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo
> if Stephens' & my requests to postmaster @ & mailman @ freebsd.org
> continues to get no response.

Thank you for doing this, Stefan.  The additional patches mentioned by
Julian need to be included with the port before it can work and be
tested.  They are absolutely needed for the svn ctm deltas.

Sorry for not being involved during the last month or so.  Life and work
have been very busy.

Thanks, Stephen
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-23 Thread Stefan Esser 
Am 23.12.18 um 02:39 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> On 12/21/18 10:03 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
>>> The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
>>> Regards, STefan
>>
>> Thanks Stefan,
>> I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
>> & converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
>>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
>>  http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS
>>
>> Stephens diffs are essential, without them CTM broke long ago, 
>> (5 digit numeric names maybe ?)
>>
>> I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
>> automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
>> running OK so far:
>>  ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz ;
>>  ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz
>>
>> Stephen may be best person to test delta builds, as hes the delta originator.
>>
>> Soonish I'll set up a 
>> [freebsd-]ctm-src-12 on http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo
>> if Stephens' & my requests to postmaster @ & mailman @ freebsd.org
>> continues to get no response.
> 
> Thank you for doing this, Stefan.  The additional patches mentioned by
> Julian need to be included with the port before it can work and be
> tested.  They are absolutely needed for the svn ctm deltas.

Hi Stephen and Julian,

I have converted the diffs into port patches (make makepatch) and
updated the man-page revision dates of ctm.8 and ctm_rmail.8.

The port update has been committed as r488168.

I hope this brings the port to the level required to make the CTM
port usable again.

The patches could be imported to the Github repo (freebsd/ctm) after
testing, but for now the patched port should suffice ...

Best regards, STefan
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-12-21 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
> The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
> Regards, STefan

Thanks Stefan,
I took current /usr/ports/misc/ctm/
& converted Stephen's & my diffs to be automatic ports patches:
 http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/files/
 http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/freebsd/ports/gen/misc/ctm/README.JHS

Stephens diffs are essential, without them CTM broke long ago, 
(5 digit numeric names maybe ?)

I haven't checked all execution as my ctm_rmail scripts run
automaticaly on an older release, not my current box, but this is
running OK so far:
ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07000xEmpty.xz ;
ctm -q /pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/svn-cur.07[0-9][0-9][0-9].xz

Stephen may be best person to test delta builds, as hes the delta originator.

Soonish I'll set up a 
[freebsd-]ctm-src-12 on http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo
if Stephens' & my requests to postmaster @ & mailman @ freebsd.org
continues to get no response.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant Sys.Eng. BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent
 First referendum stole 700,000 votes from Brits in EU;  3,700,000 globaly.
 Lies criminal funded; jobs pound & markets down. 1.9M new voters 1.3M dead.
 Email MP: "A new referendum will buy UK & EU more time (Art 50.3), to avoid
   a hard crash, & consider all options."  http://berklix.org/brexit/#mp
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-11-11 Thread Stefan Esser 
Am 23.10.18 um 22:21 schrieb Warner Losh:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:13 PM Rodney W. Grimes> At the most/least we 
> should not go very far,
> the only thing that needs done soon is a gonein(13) commited
> to head and MFC'ed to stable/12 by thursday.
> 
> All the other details should wait until a depreication policy
> revision is completed that includes how to deal with this.
> 
> There's no reason at all to wait. We can create the port. We can create the
> github repo. We can move the history there. We won't  be removing it before we
> have a chance to socialize the removal and give people a chance to cut over.
> None of this requires a new policy. Everybody agrees we should do it. We
> shouldn't let some perceived policy get in the way of just moving forward.

I have created a review for the removal of CTM on phabricator:

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D17935

The goal of this review is not to get approval for the removal within a few
days, but to have all relevant changes documented and open for review.

Since the removal affects ObsoleteFiles, there is some churn if another entry
is added before approval, but it is easy enough to deal with it ...

I'd still appreciate comments and a suggestion when to perform the removal.

I could add a gonein(13) now, to give further attention to the depreciation
of CTM, in the mean-time.

Regards, STefan
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RE: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Thomas Sparrevohn 
And more importantly a great thanks for ctm from all of us who depended on
it for ages ;-) 

-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 22 October 2018 21:59
To: Warner Losh 
Cc: Rodney W. Grimes ; Ed Maste
; FreeBSD Current ;
ctm-us...@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?


In message

, Warner Losh writes:

>> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
>>
>> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells, confirmed that is who 
>> I saw with ctm usage.
>
>Do we need it in base? Or can we make it a port?

Absolutely make it a port!

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Warner Losh 
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:13 PM Rodney W. Grimes <
freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote:

> > A cost(=time)/benefit look on moving ctm from src/ to ports/ :
> > - No tangible architecture benefit (its not like purging an old driver
> >   to makes kernel support simpler, or avoiding clashing libs etc)
> > - FreeBSD would shrink 0.028 % of the size of src/
> >   cd /pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/src
> >   du -s -k .  # 1223922
> >   du -s -k `find . -type d -name \*ctm\*`
> >   196 ./usr.sbin/ctm
> >   74  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm
> >   12  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_dequeue
> >   44  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail
> >   18  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_smail
> >   dc 196 74 12 44 18 + + + + p 344
> >   dc 3440 1223922 / p 281063  # then move 9 points
> >   xcalc 344 / 1223922 # 0.0002810636
> >
> > Those who would do the work might want to ponder if 0.028 % is best use
> of
> > their time, or if more fun & benefit to work on some other part of
> FreeBSD ?
>
> At the most/least we should not go very far,
> the only thing that needs done soon is a gonein(13) commited
> to head and MFC'ed to stable/12 by thursday.
>
> All the other details should wait until a depreication policy
> revision is completed that includes how to deal with this.
>

There's no reason at all to wait. We can create the port. We can create the
github repo. We can move the history there. We won't  be removing it before
we have a chance to socialize the removal and give people a chance to cut
over. None of this requires a new policy. Everybody agrees we should do it.
We shouldn't let some perceived policy get in the way of just moving
forward.

Warner
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> A cost(=time)/benefit look on moving ctm from src/ to ports/ :
> - No tangible architecture benefit (its not like purging an old driver
>   to makes kernel support simpler, or avoiding clashing libs etc)
> - FreeBSD would shrink 0.028 % of the size of src/
>   cd /pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/src
>   du -s -k .  # 1223922
>   du -s -k `find . -type d -name \*ctm\*`
>   196 ./usr.sbin/ctm
>   74  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm
>   12  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_dequeue
>   44  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail
>   18  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_smail
>   dc 196 74 12 44 18 + + + + p 344
>   dc 3440 1223922 / p 281063  # then move 9 points
>   xcalc 344 / 1223922 # 0.0002810636
> 
> Those who would do the work might want to ponder if 0.028 % is best use of 
> their time, or if more fun & benefit to work on some other part of FreeBSD ?

At the most/least we should not go very far,
the only thing that needs done soon is a gonein(13) commited
to head and MFC'ed to stable/12 by thursday.

All the other details should wait until a depreication policy
revision is completed that includes how to deal with this.

-- 
Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
A cost(=time)/benefit look on moving ctm from src/ to ports/ :
- No tangible architecture benefit (its not like purging an old driver
  to makes kernel support simpler, or avoiding clashing libs etc)
- FreeBSD would shrink 0.028 % of the size of src/
cd /pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/src
du -s -k .  # 1223922
du -s -k `find . -type d -name \*ctm\*`
196 ./usr.sbin/ctm
74  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm
12  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_dequeue
44  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail
18  ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_smail
dc 196 74 12 44 18 + + + + p 344
dc 3440 1223922 / p 281063  # then move 9 points
xcalc 344 / 1223922 # 0.0002810636

Those who would do the work might want to ponder if 0.028 % is best use of 
their time, or if more fun & benefit to work on some other part of FreeBSD ?

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich.
 Brexit referendum stole 3,700,000 Brits votes abroad, inc. 700,000 in EU.
 Campaign lies, criminal funding, economy & pound down. Time for an honest ref.
http://exitbrexit.ukhttps://www.peoples-vote.uk/petition
https://eci.ec.europa.eu/002/public/#/initiative
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Warner Losh 
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 12:18 PM Stefan Esser  wrote:

> Am 23.10.18 um 19:06 schrieb Warner Losh:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Stefan Esser  > > wrote:
> >
> > Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> > > I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
> > > advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for
> converting
> > > software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my
> way
> > > through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
> > > because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right
> now.
> >
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
> > test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
> > that it still may be useful in special situations.
> >
> > The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
> > preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?
> >
> >
> > It's trivial to setup a new repository on github.com/freebsd/ctm
> >  for this purpose. With the right magic,
> we
> > could even retain the commit history.
>
>
> I have a complete port (in the sense that it builds, installs, packages),
> but there are a few details, that should be fixed on that occasion:
>
> 1) The man-pages install in man1 for binaries in sbin (--> change to man8)
> 2) The Makefiles use LIBADD (--> change to use LDADD)
> 3) The README file contains a reference to CVSUP (--> clean up)
>
> I do not have write access to freebsd on Github, and I'd appreciate if it
> was possible to move the files from src/usr.sbin/ctm there (with history
> would of course be preferable, but I'm not sure that it is of much use).
>

I can do this. We have many ports that are managed via github. What is your
github id?

Warner

I could then push my local changes (required to make the port build) to
> the Github repo (or add a few small patch files to the port).
>
> The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.
>
> Regards, STefan
>
> -
> # $FreeBSD$
>
>
>
>
> PORTNAME=   ctm
> PORTVERSION=2.0
> CATEGORIES= ports-mgmt
>
> MAINTAINER= s...@freebsd.org
> COMMENT=Create, receive, and apply FreeBSD source updates per mail
>
> LICENSE=Beerware
> LICENSE_NAME=   Beerware
> LICENSE_TEXT=   "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42): \
>  wrote this file.  As long as you retain
> this
> notice you \
> can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some
> day,
> and you think \
> this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return.
> Poul-Henning Kamp
> LICENSE_PERMS=  dist-mirror dist-sell pkg-mirror pkg-sell auto-accept
>
> USES=   tar:txz
>
> #USE_GITHUB=yes
>
>
>
> #GH_ACCOUNT=freebsd
>
>
>
>
> do-install:
> .for f in ctm ctm_dequeue ctm_rmail ctm_smail
> ${INSTALL_PROGRAM} ${WRKSRC}/${f}/${f} \
> ${STAGEDIR}${PREFIX}/sbin
> .endfor
> .for f in ctm ctm_rmail
> ${INSTALL_MAN} ${WRKSRC}/${f}/${f}.1 \
> ${STAGEDIR}${MAN1PREFIX}/man/man1 # should be man8
>
>
>
> .endfor
> .for f in ctm_dequeue ctm_smail
> ${INSTALL_MAN} ${WRKSRC}/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.1 \
> ${STAGEDIR}${MAN1PREFIX}/man/man1/${f}.1 # should
> be
> man8
>
>
> .endfor
>
> .include 
>
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Montgomery-Smith, Stephen 
On 10/23/18 11:44 AM, Stefan Esser wrote:
> Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
>> I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
>> advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
>> software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
>> through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
>> because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.
> 
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
> test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
> that it still may be useful in special situations.
> 
> The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
> preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?

That would be great.

I have familiarity with github, using svn to checkout and commit.  So 
that may be the best choice.

Don't forget to include the patches here:
ftp://ctm.berklix.org/pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Stefan Esser 
Am 23.10.18 um 19:06 schrieb Warner Losh:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Stefan Esser  > wrote:
> 
> Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> > I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
> > advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
> > software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
> > through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
> > because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.
> 
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
> test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
> that it still may be useful in special situations.
> 
> The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
> preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?
> 
> 
> It's trivial to setup a new repository on github.com/freebsd/ctm
>  for this purpose. With the right magic, we
> could even retain the commit history.


I have a complete port (in the sense that it builds, installs, packages),
but there are a few details, that should be fixed on that occasion:

1) The man-pages install in man1 for binaries in sbin (--> change to man8)
2) The Makefiles use LIBADD (--> change to use LDADD)
3) The README file contains a reference to CVSUP (--> clean up)

I do not have write access to freebsd on Github, and I'd appreciate if it
was possible to move the files from src/usr.sbin/ctm there (with history
would of course be preferable, but I'm not sure that it is of much use).

I could then push my local changes (required to make the port build) to
the Github repo (or add a few small patch files to the port).

The port Makefile that I have prepared is attached below for reference.

Regards, STefan

-
# $FreeBSD$




PORTNAME=   ctm
PORTVERSION=2.0
CATEGORIES= ports-mgmt

MAINTAINER= s...@freebsd.org
COMMENT=Create, receive, and apply FreeBSD source updates per mail

LICENSE=Beerware
LICENSE_NAME=   Beerware
LICENSE_TEXT=   "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42): \
 wrote this file.  As long as you retain this
notice you \
can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day,
and you think \
this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return.
Poul-Henning Kamp
LICENSE_PERMS=  dist-mirror dist-sell pkg-mirror pkg-sell auto-accept

USES=   tar:txz

#USE_GITHUB=yes



#GH_ACCOUNT=freebsd




do-install:
.for f in ctm ctm_dequeue ctm_rmail ctm_smail
${INSTALL_PROGRAM} ${WRKSRC}/${f}/${f} \
${STAGEDIR}${PREFIX}/sbin
.endfor
.for f in ctm ctm_rmail
${INSTALL_MAN} ${WRKSRC}/${f}/${f}.1 \
${STAGEDIR}${MAN1PREFIX}/man/man1 # should be man8



.endfor
.for f in ctm_dequeue ctm_smail
${INSTALL_MAN} ${WRKSRC}/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.1 \
${STAGEDIR}${MAN1PREFIX}/man/man1/${f}.1 # should be
man8


.endfor

.include 
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> > I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
> > advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
> > software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
> > through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
> > because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.
> 
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
> test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
> that it still may be useful in special situations.
> 
> The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
> preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?

Doesnt the project have a place for doing this already?
Any commiters ~username/ would work, but is probably not optimal.

-- 
Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Warner Losh 
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Stefan Esser  wrote:

> Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> > I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
> > advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
> > software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
> > through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
> > because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
> test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
> that it still may be useful in special situations.
>
> The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
> preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?
>

It's trivial to setup a new repository on github.com/freebsd/ctm for this
purpose. With the right magic, we could even retain the commit history.

Warner
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Stefan Esser 
Am 23.10.18 um 17:27 schrieb Montgomery-Smith, Stephen:
> I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
> advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
> software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
> through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
> because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.

Hi Stephen,

I could spend a few hours to perform the conversion to a port and to
test it. I've a happy CTM user, many years ago, and I can understand
that it still may be useful in special situations.

The source archive will need to be hosted somewhere. Do you have a
preference (e.g., on a FreeBSD server, or on Github, Gitlab, ...)?

Regards, STefan
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-23 Thread Montgomery-Smith, Stephen 
I have no problem turning ctm into a port.  But I would appreciate
advice on whether there is a standard or easy process for converting
software from the FreeBSD base to a port.  If not, I can muddle my way
through it.  But give me some time (a few months) to get it done,
because the rest of my life is making heavy demands on me right now.

I do have write access to ctm-announce@, or at least I did the last time
I checked.  I don't use it very much, because I like for people to have
the ability to reply to my messages.

I do realize that the number of people using ctm is very low.  I used to
be a user myself, but now I find svn a lot more convenient.  But the
effort for me to maintain ctm isn't that great, so I am willing to keep
it moving for the few.

Best regards,
Stephen Montgomery-Smith
CTM maintainer
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
Hi, Reference:
> From: "Rodney W. Grimes" 
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:43 -0700 (PDT)

"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
> > 
> > In message 
> > 
> > , Warner Losh writes:
> > 
> > >> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
> > >>
> > >> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
> > >> confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.
> > >
> > >Do we need it in base? Or can we make it a port?
> > 
> > Absolutely make it a port!
> > 
> 
> I concur, but please hold off on the svn rm until
> Stephen Montgomery and Julian have acked that they
> can quickly and easily transition to a port, then
> I would even be fine with a MFC gone in(13) to
> stable/12 and an immediate rm from head.

Thanks Rod.
I dont foresee a problem if its moved to ports.
( Unusual, as I often do predict problems moving to ports/ )

Let's wait for Stephen's thoughts, & other ctm users.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich.
 Brexit referendum stole 3,700,000 Brits votes abroad, inc. 700,000 in EU.
 Campaign lies, criminal funding, economy & pound down. Time for an honest ref.
http://exitbrexit.ukhttps://www.peoples-vote.uk/petition
https://eci.ec.europa.eu/002/public/#/initiative
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
> > > The ctm(1) client remains in the FreeBSD base system, although
> > > FreeBSD-hosted ctm infrastructure was shut down some time ago. I
> > > suspect it is time to remove it from the base system (perhaps making a
> > > port).
> > > 
> > > How much use does ctm have these days?
> > 
> > I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
> > one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
> > using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
> > with that memory.
> > 
> > A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
> > may yield a hit.
> 
> A fair guess, but it wouldn't indicate CTM usage well,
> as we only use the ctm@ list to discuss if something breaks,
> or to warn if a server will go out for maintenance.

The search was only to find YOU, as I knew my above 14
day reference to a user was a message on a mail list that
contained the word "ctm".

> more misleading still: the ctm-announce@ list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-announce 
> hasnt been used in years, because Stephen doesnt have
> write access to it. I did write someone years back asking that
> Stephen be given write access, but it slipped between the cracks.
> If anyone fixes that to give Stephen Montgomery Smith write access to
> ctm-announce, it would be nice if you consider giving me write access too to
> ctm-announce@ as I occasionaly announce server outages eg
> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/ctm-users/2018-September/000526.html

That should be possible, though I have no idea of where to even ask.


-- 
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
> > The ctm(1) client remains in the FreeBSD base system, although
> > FreeBSD-hosted ctm infrastructure was shut down some time ago. I
> > suspect it is time to remove it from the base system (perhaps making a
> > port).
> > 
> > How much use does ctm have these days?
> 
> I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
> one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
> using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
> with that memory.
> 
> A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
> may yield a hit.

A fair guess, but it wouldn't indicate CTM usage well,
as we only use the ctm@ list to discuss if something breaks,
or to warn if a server will go out for maintenance.

more misleading still: the ctm-announce@ list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-announce 
hasnt been used in years, because Stephen doesnt have
write access to it. I did write someone years back asking that
Stephen be given write access, but it slipped between the cracks.
If anyone fixes that to give Stephen Montgomery Smith write access to
ctm-announce, it would be nice if you consider giving me write access too to
ctm-announce@ as I occasionaly announce server outages eg
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/ctm-users/2018-September/000526.html

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 Campaign lies, criminal funding, economy & pound down. Time for an honest ref.
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> 
> In message 
> 
> , Warner Losh writes:
> 
> >> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
> >>
> >> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
> >> confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.
> >
> >Do we need it in base? Or can we make it a port?
> 
> Absolutely make it a port!
> 

I concur, but please hold off on the svn rm until
Stephen Montgomery and Julian have acked that they
can quickly and easily transition to a port, then
I would even be fine with a MFC gone in(13) to
stable/12 and an immediate rm from head.


-- 
Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp 

In message 
, Warner Losh writes:

>> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
>>
>> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
>> confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.
>
>Do we need it in base? Or can we make it a port?

Absolutely make it a port!

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
Hi, Reference:
> From: "Rodney W. Grimes" 
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:38:25 -0700 (PDT)

"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
> > 
> > In message <201810221957.w9mjvdxx012...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. 
> > Gri
> > mes" writes:
> > 
> > >I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
> > >one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
> > >using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
> > >with that memory.
> > >
> > >A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
> > >may yield a hit.
> > 
> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
> 
> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
> confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.

Stephen Montgomery generates the CTM deltas, & sends them through
the mailman lists on freebsd.org (which arent listed but are there
as far as I recall) , & as he doesn't have enough space, he also
rsyncs bases & deltas to the ftp repository server I host

Not that many use CTM, perhaps mostly because many have unrestricted
flat rate free bandwidth 24/7, so they can fetch another easier way, &
partly because even where CTM really scores, for those with
intermittent access or expensive data transfer (eg some mobile
tarrifs perhaps), some of those people arent aware of CTM, as we
havent kept up the www.freebsd.org etc docs.

http://ctm.berklix.org

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Warner Losh 
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 2:40 PM Rodney W. Grimes <
freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote:

> > 
> > In message <201810221957.w9mjvdxx012...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net>,
> "Rodney W. Gri
> > mes" writes:
> >
> > >I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
> > >one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
> > >using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
> > >with that memory.
> > >
> > >A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
> > >may yield a hit.
> >
> > I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?
>
> Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
> confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.
>

Do we need it in base? Or can we make it a port?

Warner
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> 
> In message <201810221957.w9mjvdxx012...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. 
> Gri
> mes" writes:
> 
> >I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
> >one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
> >using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
> >with that memory.
> >
> >A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
> >may yield a hit.
> 
> I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?

Ah, yes, that brought back enough brain cells,
confirmed that is who I saw with ctm usage.


-- 
Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp 

In message <201810221957.w9mjvdxx012...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. Gri
mes" writes:

>I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
>one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
>using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
>with that memory.
>
>A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
>may yield a hit.

I think Julian Stacy is still running CTM generation ?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Rodney W. Grimes 
> The ctm(1) client remains in the FreeBSD base system, although
> FreeBSD-hosted ctm infrastructure was shut down some time ago. I
> suspect it is time to remove it from the base system (perhaps making a
> port).
> 
> How much use does ctm have these days?

I do not know that other than I do know that I have seen
one data point in the last 14 days of a user who was infact
using ctm though I can not associate a username/email address
with that memory.

A search of the last 30 days of @freebsd.org public mail
may yield a hit.

-- 
Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
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ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system?

2018-10-22 Thread Ed Maste 
The ctm(1) client remains in the FreeBSD base system, although
FreeBSD-hosted ctm infrastructure was shut down some time ago. I
suspect it is time to remove it from the base system (perhaps making a
port).

How much use does ctm have these days?
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