Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-30 Thread Brooks Davis
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:33:58PM -0400, Allan Jude wrote:
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
  
 On 2013-10-29 22:29, Freddie Cash wrote:
  On Oct 29, 2013 7:21 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote:
 
 
  On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
 
 
  On Oct 29, 2013 7:07 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com
  wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..
 
  Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
  (contrib?).
 
  Hasn't this been done already? There's mention of it in the archives
  from 2009/2010. There was a port by Robert Watson et al to 8.1
 mentioned in
  the quarterly status reports, and indications it would be imported after
  8.1-release.
 
 
  I knew about the port, and I had heard about previous efforts, but when I
  go
  scrounging around HEAD, I can't find it. Let alone older branches.
 
  Hrm, maybe it hasn't been imported yet (Google search of
  svnweb.FreeBSD.orgonly shows the ports branch). And looks like the
  port hasn't been touched
  in 2 years.
 
  I just remembered reading about it and found the quarterly report in my
  mail archive.
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 There is a wiki page that provides a bit of information:
 
 https://wiki.freebsd.org/GCD
 
 But it seeps the last time the port was touched was over 2 years ago

The port was last updated when there was an upstream update...

-- Brooks


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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Freddie Cash
On Oct 29, 2013 7:07 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..

 Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
(contrib?).

Hasn't this been done already? There's mention of it in the archives from
2009/2010. There was a port by Robert Watson et al to 8.1 mentioned in the
quarterly status reports, and indications it would be imported after
8.1-release.
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Teske, Devin

On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:

 
 On Oct 29, 2013 7:07 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..
 
  Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base 
  (contrib?).
 
 Hasn't this been done already? There's mention of it in the archives from 
 2009/2010. There was a port by Robert Watson et al to 8.1 mentioned in the 
 quarterly status reports, and indications it would be imported after 
 8.1-release.
 

I knew about the port, and I had heard about previous efforts, but when I go
scrounging around HEAD, I can't find it. Let alone older branches.

Do you know where we should be looking? I already checked contrib, and lib.
-- 
Devin

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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Freddie Cash
On Oct 29, 2013 7:21 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote:


 On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:

 
  On Oct 29, 2013 7:07 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com
wrote:
  
   Hi all,
  
   I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..
  
   Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
(contrib?).
 
  Hasn't this been done already? There's mention of it in the archives
from 2009/2010. There was a port by Robert Watson et al to 8.1 mentioned in
the quarterly status reports, and indications it would be imported after
8.1-release.
 

 I knew about the port, and I had heard about previous efforts, but when I
go
 scrounging around HEAD, I can't find it. Let alone older branches.

Hrm, maybe it hasn't been imported yet (Google search of
svnweb.FreeBSD.orgonly shows the ports branch). And looks like the
port hasn't been touched
in 2 years.

I just remembered reading about it and found the quarterly report in my
mail archive.
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Allan Jude

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 2013-10-29 22:29, Freddie Cash wrote:
 On Oct 29, 2013 7:21 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote:


 On Oct 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:


 On Oct 29, 2013 7:07 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..

 Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
 (contrib?).

 Hasn't this been done already? There's mention of it in the archives
 from 2009/2010. There was a port by Robert Watson et al to 8.1
mentioned in
 the quarterly status reports, and indications it would be imported after
 8.1-release.


 I knew about the port, and I had heard about previous efforts, but when I
 go
 scrounging around HEAD, I can't find it. Let alone older branches.

 Hrm, maybe it hasn't been imported yet (Google search of
 svnweb.FreeBSD.orgonly shows the ports branch). And looks like the
 port hasn't been touched
 in 2 years.

 I just remembered reading about it and found the quarterly report in my
 mail archive.
 ___
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There is a wiki page that provides a bit of information:

https://wiki.freebsd.org/GCD

But it seeps the last time the port was touched was over 2 years ago


- -- 
Allan Jude
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Adam Vande More
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..

 Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
 (contrib?).

 Specifically into HEAD then MFC'd only as far back as stable/10.

 Here's the reason why:
 http://devinteske.com/freebsd-installer-enhancements

 Summary:
 For the purpose of providing a concurrency model better than pthreads for
 the
 expressed desire to bring about concurrent data processing (applicable
 directly
 to distributions, packages, signing and more).

 Multiple people have confirmed with me with respect to the above blog
 article
 that the concurrency model would be most efficient with libdispatch.

 Since the tool mentioned in the blog is
 a. Compiling with clang
 b. Requires newest dialog(3) that is only in stable/10 or higher

 I'd say that it looks like a match made in heaven.

 But of course, there's that one hang-up... dispatch is not available in
 base yet.

 Is anyone working on getting dispatch into base?


FWIW, I say +1 to your proposition and +1 to your contribs. However I say
prove it works.
,


-- 
Adam
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Julian Elischer



On 10/30/13, 10:33 AM, Allan Jude wrote:


There is a wiki page that provides a bit of information:

https://wiki.freebsd.org/GCD

But it seeps the last time the port was touched was over 2 years ago


a lot of people over the years have indicated a liking of it in a 
general way but no-one
has had anything that needed it.  Launchd may be one such user but 
efforts to

make that available stalled at the same time.
The anti-bloat party seem to have successfully  taken the momentum out 
of any moves

to import it on the if we needed it, we'd have it argument.


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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Sam Fourman Jr.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..

 Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base
 (contrib?).

 Specifically into HEAD then MFC'd only as far back as stable/10.

 Here's the reason why:
 http://devinteske.com/freebsd-installer-enhancements


 I say +1 to your idea

Sam Fourman Jr.
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Nathan Whitehorn

On 10/29/13 21:04, Teske, Devin wrote:

Hi all,

I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..

Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base (contrib?).

Specifically into HEAD then MFC'd only as far back as stable/10.

Here's the reason why:
http://devinteske.com/freebsd-installer-enhancements

Summary:
For the purpose of providing a concurrency model better than pthreads for the
expressed desire to bring about concurrent data processing (applicable directly
to distributions, packages, signing and more).

Multiple people have confirmed with me with respect to the above blog article
that the concurrency model would be most efficient with libdispatch.

Since the tool mentioned in the blog is
a. Compiling with clang
b. Requires newest dialog(3) that is only in stable/10 or higher

I'd say that it looks like a match made in heaven.

But of course, there's that one hang-up... dispatch is not available in base 
yet.

Is anyone working on getting dispatch into base?


I have no opinion on GCD in base -- probably a good idea -- but I was 
hoping you could explain further what you are trying to do here. 
Parallelism in these steps is usually of very limited utility. For 
checksum evaluation, it could speed things up on multicore systems. For 
fetch and extract, however, it either has no effect (if you are 
bandwidth limited during fetch) or slows things down significantly by 
causing extra seeks. This problem is especially bad for CD installs. For 
extract, it can actually cause lasting problems on the installed system 
by increasing disk fragmentation.

-Nathan
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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Xin Li
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Hash: SHA512

On 10/29/13, 7:40 PM, Julian Elischer wrote:
 
 
 On 10/30/13, 10:33 AM, Allan Jude wrote:
 
 There is a wiki page that provides a bit of information:
 
 https://wiki.freebsd.org/GCD
 
 But it seeps the last time the port was touched was over 2 years
 ago
 
 
 a lot of people over the years have indicated a liking of it in a 
 general way but no-one has had anything that needed it.  Launchd
 may be one such user but efforts to make that available stalled at
 the same time. The anti-bloat party seem to have successfully
 taken the momentum out of any moves to import it on the if we
 needed it, we'd have it argument.

Simple -- create a killer app that depends on it and import
libdispatch altogether :)

Cheers,

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Re: [RFC] libdispatch (aka Grand Central Dispatch) in base

2013-10-29 Thread Teske, Devin

On Oct 29, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Nathan Whitehorn wrote:

 On 10/29/13 21:04, Teske, Devin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I'd like to bring up the discussion for topic..
 
 Importing libdispatch (aka Apple's Grand Central Dispatch) into base 
 (contrib?).
 
 Specifically into HEAD then MFC'd only as far back as stable/10.
 
 Here's the reason why:
 http://devinteske.com/freebsd-installer-enhancements
 
 Summary:
 For the purpose of providing a concurrency model better than pthreads for the
 expressed desire to bring about concurrent data processing (applicable 
 directly
 to distributions, packages, signing and more).
 
 Multiple people have confirmed with me with respect to the above blog article
 that the concurrency model would be most efficient with libdispatch.
 
 Since the tool mentioned in the blog is
 a. Compiling with clang
 b. Requires newest dialog(3) that is only in stable/10 or higher
 
 I'd say that it looks like a match made in heaven.
 
 But of course, there's that one hang-up... dispatch is not available in base 
 yet.
 
 Is anyone working on getting dispatch into base?
 
 I have no opinion on GCD in base -- probably a good idea -- but I was hoping 
 you could explain further what you are trying to do here. Parallelism in 
 these steps is usually of very limited utility. For checksum evaluation, it 
 could speed things up on multicore systems. For fetch and extract, however, 
 it either has no effect (if you are bandwidth limited during fetch) or slows 
 things down significantly by causing extra seeks. This problem is especially 
 bad for CD installs. For extract, it can actually cause lasting problems on 
 the installed system by increasing disk fragmentation.

The parallel concurrency was actually an after-thought.

First... I started with this...
http://pastebin.com/LvDtJNGh

A straight-forward attempt to see if I could add X11 support
by finding a feature that dialog(1) and Xdialog(1) agree upon.

They agree that when they are reading pipe data for the gauge
widget, they will update their prompt text when the input looks like:

XXX
New prompt text
XXX

NB: Literally XXX on a line by itself, sandwiching the new prompt.

I then quickly rewrote that into C and added dozens of features to
get where the fdpv prototype is at now.

I'm glad we're having this discussion, because I acknowledge that
I very well can push ahead without concurrency (and we may want
to do that, because the utility brings other benefits that are foremost
on my list behind parallelism).

Trying to achieve:

1. X11 support
2. Get rid of the need for temporary files (without sacrificing signing)
3. Internationalization

So would you recommend just moving forward without the parallelism
so we could add that as a value-add down the line?

That would actually speed up the development of fdpv as a new base
utility that can take either stdin or a list of fifo's with size and signature
data, and verify the data before forking off a tar command, or pkg etc.
-- 
Devin

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