Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On Thu, 28-Mar-2002 at 14:49:49 -0600, Scot W. Hetzel wrote: From: Coleman Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another thing to look at is the /usr/sbin/sendmail - mailwrapper link that is produced from installworld. In current it seems to have been linking that, even Stable creates the same links to mailwrapper. when NO_SENDMAIL=yes in make.conf. Qmail et al. overwrite this with their own workalike (since /usr/sbin/sendmail is a 'standard' these days) local mailer. I dunno if -stable has this problem too. You want to set NO_MAILWRAPPER in make.conf to prevent the linking to This might give you more problems: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=29699 Nobody seems to have agreed to a solution yet... :-) -Andre mailwrapper. But if you do this, you'll loose the configurablity that mailwrapper provides for alternate MTA's via /etc/mail/mailer.conf. Qmail install shouldn't need to install anything into /usr/[sbin,bin] directories with mailwrapper properly configured (see `man mailer.conf` 'man mailwrapper'). Mailwrapper was designed so that you didn't need to re-create your links to your personal MTA (in /usr/[bin,sbin], when upgrading FreeBSD. Scot To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Gregory Neil Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), Why? It doesn't make any difference as long as one uses the mailwrapper stuff: des@des ~% grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf sendmail_enable=YES des@des ~% cat /etc/mail/mailer.conf # # Execute the Postfix sendmail program, named /usr/local/sbin/sendmail # sendmail/usr/local/sbin/sendmail send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail So what's all this noise and racket about? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), des Why? It doesn't make any difference as long as one uses the des mailwrapper stuff: des des@des ~% grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf des sendmail_enable=YES This fixes things for people who use sendmail_enable=NO. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
ianjhart One small quibble. If I want to set ianjhart mta_start_script= ianjhart and run rc.sendmail(.sh) from /usr/local/etc/rc.d ianjhart shouldn't stop kill both queues? You'd need to add ianjhart a stop-mtaq obviously. ianjhart A global restart might be nice too. Yes, rc.sendmail should follow the standard start/stop conventions. I'll fix it up today and post a new version. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 07:12:52PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Gregory Neil Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), Why? It doesn't make any difference as long as one uses the mailwrapper stuff: Yes, it does. des@des ~% grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf sendmail_enable=YES des@des ~% cat /etc/mail/mailer.conf # # Execute the Postfix sendmail program, named /usr/local/sbin/sendmail # sendmail/usr/local/sbin/sendmail send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail So what's all this noise and racket about? This assumes that the replacement sendmail binary accepts the same options as the real sendmail. In particular the options that are used by default in the rc* files. This is not the case for qmail for example. (And there the normal use is not to start it with sendmail_enable=YES but rather from its own start file under /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ after disabling sendmail with sendmail_enable=NO (now NONE), which I think should be the standard behaviour for alternative MTAs.) So, if one uses qmail this change does require you to modify the sendmail_* options in /etc/rc.conf. -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
keramida A better fix would be to use the sh(1) way of conditionally setting a
keramida variable:
keramida sendmail_program=${sendmail_program:-/usr/sbin/sendmail}
keramida Similarly for the rest of those ?= assignments.
keramida AFAIK, the ?= assignment style works in make rules.
keramida Perhaps that's where this came from :-)
Thanks, that will teach me to write a script at 5:30 in the morning. I'll
post a new version shortly.
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Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
In a somewhat unrelated note, I also plan on arranging to move the sendmail-specific stuff out of src/etc/mail/ and into src/etc/sendmail so the installation of things like sample sendmail maps, etc. don't clutter a NO_SENDMAIL installation. I'll need to arrange this event with the CVS repomeisters. Hopefully, this change (along with the patch) will make things more palatable for non-sendmail users. andyf Could you expand on this please? Why would a NO_SENDMAIL andyf installworld install sendmail maps, etc. in the first place? It andyf shouldn't matter what the source directory is. That's just the way /usr/src/etc/Makefile has always been. Strictly speaking, the source files don't have to move, I think it would be more logical if they did. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Thanks to some reviewers, a couple of problems with my last patch have been fixed. This time, I've actually tried the combinations involved to make sure it works. The changes from the last patch are only to /etc/mail/Makefile and /etc/rc.sendmail. rc.sendmail changes: - Use proper shell variable substitution - Make it more like rc.d scripts: - start, stop, and restart now affect all daemons, not just the MTA. - New targets: start-mta, stop-mta, restart-mta - Optimize by using functions instead of making the script re-execute itself. Makefile changes: - Fix syntax error - Check for pidfile before trying to use it with kill (warn if not present) - Minor cosmetic changes The updated patch is available in the same location: http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/mta-start I've also pulled out the two changed files for those who have already patched: http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/Makefile http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/rc.sendmail I'll give this new patch a couple of days review time before committing it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
According to Peter Wemm: Opinions? Enthusiastic thumbs-up from me! :-) Nice idea, go for it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Okay, I have this running in (4.5) stable.
A few lines caused some problems.
To get it working I did this
--- /usr/src/etc/sendmail/rc.sendmail Fri Mar 29 19:50:55 2002
+++ /etc/rc.sendmailFri Mar 29 21:22:52 2002
@@ -47,15 +47,15 @@
fi
# The sendmail binary
-sendmail_program?= /usr/sbin/sendmail
+sendmail_program=/usr/sbin/sendmail
# The pid is used to stop and restart the running daemon(s).
-sendmail_pidfile?= /var/run/sendmail.pid
-sendmail_mspq_pidfile?=/var/spool/clientmqueue/sm-client.pid
+sendmail_pidfile=/var/run/sendmail.pid
+sendmail_mspq_pidfile=/var/spool/clientmqueue/sm-client.pid
# If no argument is given, assume we are being called at boot time.
-_action= ${1:-boot}
-_script= ${0:-/etc/rc.sendmail}
+_action=${1:-boot}
+_script=${0:-/etc/rc.sendmail}
case ${_action} in
boot)
Is sh different in current?
/etc/mail/Makefile
host#make restart
Syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting fi)
*** Error code 2
Stop in /etc/mail.
Is make different in current?
Unfortunately (for me anyway) you can't just drop
rc.sendmail(.sh) in /usr/local/etc/rc.d because
start starts the mta but not the mspq and
stop stops the mta but not the mspq
Hmmm, It's deja vu all over again.
It's not too difficult to write a startup
script, but it duplicates much of the code
in rc.sendmail. Which seems like a waste to me.
--
ian j hart
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Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On 2002-03-30 01:00, ian j hart wrote:
Okay, I have this running in (4.5) stable.
A few lines caused some problems.
To get it working I did this
--- /usr/src/etc/sendmail/rc.sendmail Fri Mar 29 19:50:55 2002
+++ /etc/rc.sendmailFri Mar 29 21:22:52 2002
@@ -47,15 +47,15 @@
fi
# The sendmail binary
-sendmail_program?= /usr/sbin/sendmail
+sendmail_program=/usr/sbin/sendmail
A better fix would be to use the sh(1) way of conditionally setting a
variable:
sendmail_program=${sendmail_program:-/usr/sbin/sendmail}
Similarly for the rest of those ?= assignments.
AFAIK, the ?= assignment style works in make rules.
Perhaps that's where this came from :-)
Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project
keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/
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Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote:
In a somewhat unrelated note, I also plan on arranging to move the
sendmail-specific stuff out of src/etc/mail/ and into src/etc/sendmail so
the installation of things like sample sendmail maps, etc. don't clutter a
NO_SENDMAIL installation. I'll need to arrange this event with the CVS
repomeisters. Hopefully, this change (along with the patch) will make
things more palatable for non-sendmail users.
Could you expand on this please? Why would a NO_SENDMAIL installworld
install sendmail maps, etc. in the first place? It shouldn't matter what
the source directory is.
ps. not on -current atm (hence the xpost) - rectifying
--
:{ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andy Farkas
System Administrator
Speednet Communications
http://www.speednet.com.au/
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Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Le 2002-03-28, Gregory Neil Shapiro écrivait : Opinions? Hum. If we make the assumption that non-Sendmail-users use some other MTA installed through a port or locally, then I guess that MTA should be expected to be started from a /usr/local/etc/rc.d script, so maybe the new variable mta_startup_script is overkill. On the other hand, the principle of NO_SENDMAIL in mail.conf implying no rc.sendmail installed and therefore no Sendmail daemon started looks attractive. One thing or the other, it would be nice to have that coordinated with the maintainers of the various MTA ports: qmail:MAINTAINER= [EMAIL PROTECTED] zmailer:MAINTAINER= [EMAIL PROTECTED] exim:MAINTAINER=[EMAIL PROTECTED] postfix:MAINTAINER= [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Thomas. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
thomas Hum. If we make the assumption that non-Sendmail-users use some thomas other MTA installed through a port or locally, then I guess that thomas MTA should be expected to be started from a /usr/local/etc/rc.d script, thomas so maybe the new variable mta_startup_script is overkill. They can set mta_start_script to (or unset it) in /etc/rc.conf. Also, if it's not present (due to NO_SENDMAIL), it will be ignored automatically. The benefit of this new method is it is sendmail-clean and allows for future MTAs (whether through new packaging or via the ports) to have a hook. thomas One thing or the other, it would be nice to have that coordinated thomas with the maintainers of the various MTA ports: Once things settle down, I'll get in contact with them (and Warner and Bruce). Hopefully at least some of them are seeing this discussion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), I thought it might be better to give them something back for their trouble. As an alternative to sendmail_enable=NONE, why not solve the boot time problem for non-sendmail users completely. The patch moves all of the sendmail startup code from /etc/rc to /etc/rc.sendmail. The source for that script will be kept in src/etc/sendmail/rc.sendmail so make.conf's NO_SENDMAIL will prevent it from being installed. A new rc.conf variable, mta_start_script specifies the script to run to start the user's preferred MTA. For backward compatibility, it will default to /etc/rc.sendmail. The specified script is called out of /etc/rc after checking to make sure it exists. I've also taken the opportunity to use /etc/rc.sendmail in /etc/mail/Makefile to reduce code duplication. A new rc.sendmail.8 man page has also been added which now houses the sendmail_* variable descriptions formerly in rc.conf.5. In a somewhat unrelated note, I also plan on arranging to move the sendmail-specific stuff out of src/etc/mail/ and into src/etc/sendmail so the installation of things like sample sendmail maps, etc. don't clutter a NO_SENDMAIL installation. I'll need to arrange this event with the CVS repomeisters. Hopefully, this change (along with the patch) will make things more palatable for non-sendmail users. The patch is against -CURRENT but should give -STABLE users a good idea of my intentions. It is available at: http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/mta-start Opinions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), I thought it might be better to give them something back for their trouble. As an alternative to sendmail_enable=NONE, why not solve the boot time problem for non-sendmail users completely. Hang on, what problem? I think you've already done this: if you use sendmail_enable = YES sendmail_flags = whatever you normally use and configer /etc/mail/mailer.conf properly, then if your MTA was written to teh sendmail CLI, you're out of the woods, surely? -- jan grant, ILRT, University of Bristol. http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44(0)117 9287088 Fax +44 (0)117 9287112 RFC822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] printf 'cat\nhello world' | `sh -c 'read c; echo $c'` To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Jan.Grant Hang on, what problem? I think you've already done this: if you use Jan.Grant sendmail_enable = YES Jan.Grant sendmail_flags = whatever you normally use And: sendmail_msp_queue_enable=NO Jan.Grant and configer /etc/mail/mailer.conf properly, then if your MTA Jan.Grant was written to teh sendmail CLI, you're out of the woods, Jan.Grant surely? Yes, for the particular case you mention. But others do not want to start their MTA daemon from /etc/rc (or don't want to start any daemon) and now need: sendmail_enable=NO sendmail_outbound_enable=NO sendmail_msp_queue_enable=NO sendmail_submit_enable=NO To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Another thing to look at is the /usr/sbin/sendmail - mailwrapper link that is produced from installworld. In current it seems to have been linking that, even when NO_SENDMAIL=yes in make.conf. Qmail et al. overwrite this with their own workalike (since /usr/sbin/sendmail is a 'standard' these days) local mailer. I dunno if -stable has this problem too. -- coleman Thus spoke Yeasah Pell [EMAIL PROTECTED], and it was proclaimed: This appears to address all of my concerns directly relating to sendmail in one relatively simple and well thought out patch. I think this sort of insulation is valuable to everybody, including those who currently *do* use sendmail. Well done! - Original Message - From: Gregory Neil Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), I thought it might be better to give them something back for their trouble. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-stable in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 07:39:24AM -0800, Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: As an alternative to sendmail_enable=NONE, why not solve the boot time problem for non-sendmail users completely. The patch moves all of the sendmail startup code from /etc/rc to /etc/rc.sendmail. Yes, please commit. Very nice. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Scot W. Hetzel([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2002.03.28 14:49:49 +: Qmail install shouldn't need to install anything into /usr/[sbin,bin] directories with mailwrapper properly configured (see `man mailer.conf` 'man mailwrapper'). a quick glance into /usr/ports/mail/qmail/pkg-plist shows, that no sendmail or mailwrapper binaries are harmed during installation process. regards, /k -- cd /pub; more beer KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.net/ GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 BF46 My mail is GnuPG signed -- Unsigned ones are bogus -- http://www.gnupg.org/ Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 10x msg36734/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: Given that non-sendmail users will be inconvenienced when upgrading due to the 8.12 changes (need to change sendmail_enable from NO to NONE), I thought it might be better to give them something back for their trouble. As an alternative to sendmail_enable=NONE, why not solve the boot time problem for non-sendmail users completely. The patch moves all of the sendmail startup code from /etc/rc to /etc/rc.sendmail. The source for that script will be kept in src/etc/sendmail/rc.sendmail so make.conf's NO_SENDMAIL will prevent it from being installed. A new rc.conf variable, mta_start_script specifies the script to run to start the user's preferred MTA. For backward compatibility, it will default to /etc/rc.sendmail. The specified script is called out of /etc/rc after checking to make sure it exists. I've also taken the opportunity to use /etc/rc.sendmail in /etc/mail/Makefile to reduce code duplication. A new rc.sendmail.8 man page has also been added which now houses the sendmail_* variable descriptions formerly in rc.conf.5. In a somewhat unrelated note, I also plan on arranging to move the sendmail-specific stuff out of src/etc/mail/ and into src/etc/sendmail so the installation of things like sample sendmail maps, etc. don't clutter a NO_SENDMAIL installation. I'll need to arrange this event with the CVS repomeisters. Hopefully, this change (along with the patch) will make things more palatable for non-sendmail users. The patch is against -CURRENT but should give -STABLE users a good idea of my intentions. It is available at: http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/mta-start Opinions? Brilliant! I suppose you just threw this together :) One small quibble. If I want to set mta_start_script= and run rc.sendmail(.sh) from /usr/local/etc/rc.d shouldn't stop kill both queues? You'd need to add a stop-mtaq obviously. A global restart might be nice too. [If this is mindless drivel, just ignore:- need sleep.] -- ian j hart To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Another possible solution for non-sendmail users
Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: http://people.freebsd.org/~gshapiro/mta-start Opinions? Enthusiastic thumbs-up from me! :-) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
