Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
It requires two downloads to get a working JDK system. No other OS requires multiple packages to work. People shouldn't have to compile Motif up just to get a non-source version of the JDK to work. Versioning problems that can be caused by folks using different include files and/or X than what was used to build the JDK. Bugs that have slipped in due to changes in the Motif port that negatively effect the JDK. Shall I go on? I'm curious... what happens when someone who has already installed Motif then tries to install JDK? Nothing. It should use the version inside the JDK, and it won't effect the version outside the JDK. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
On Mon, 15 May 2000 23:08:23 -0400, Donn Miller wrote: Check it out at: http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ Yes, that is great news! I tried compiling it, but I had trouble with lib/Xm/Scale.c. It wanted to include langinfo.h, which FreeBSD doesn't have. I've integrated NetBSD's langinfo and nl_types support into FreeBSD. I can send you patches if you haven't managed to work around this yet? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Sheldon Hearn wrote: I've integrated NetBSD's langinfo and nl_types support into FreeBSD. I can send you patches if you haven't managed to work around this yet? Great. Please send me the patches. BTW, by "integrated", do you mean that you've integrated them into the base FreeBSD distribution, or is it a port (or merely a set of patches)? Thanks. - Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
I think that you no longer have to include Motif with the JDK. Just let the distribution of Motif come from freebsd.org , i.e., a port or a package. Too much hassle IMO. I'd *much* rather distribute it as part of the package, and I'm looking into how feasible it would be to distribute inside of the JDK. If this Open Motif can be distributed as a port or package for FreeBSD itself (and it seems to me that it can), then what hassle is that for JDK on FreeBSD? My guess is the Open Motif port/package will exist on FreeBSD anyway, for those who want motif but are not going to install JDK. At that point, it's just another package-dependency for the JDK like any other package-dependency. Certainly no one will want TWO copies of Open Motif... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
I think that you no longer have to include Motif with the JDK. Just let the distribution of Motif come from freebsd.org , i.e., a port or a package. Too much hassle IMO. I'd *much* rather distribute it as part of the package, and I'm looking into how feasible it would be to distribute inside of the JDK. If this Open Motif can be distributed as a port or package for FreeBSD itself (and it seems to me that it can), then what hassle is that for JDK on FreeBSD? It requires two downloads to get a working JDK system. No other OS requires multiple packages to work. People shouldn't have to compile Motif up just to get a non-source version of the JDK to work. Versioning problems that can be caused by folks using different include files and/or X than what was used to build the JDK. Bugs that have slipped in due to changes in the Motif port that negatively effect the JDK. Shall I go on? Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Sheldon Hearn wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2000 23:08:23 -0400, Donn Miller wrote: Check it out at: http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ Yes, that is great news! I tried compiling it, but I had trouble with lib/Xm/Scale.c. It wanted to include langinfo.h, which FreeBSD doesn't have. I've integrated NetBSD's langinfo and nl_types support into FreeBSD. I can send you patches if you haven't managed to work around this yet? That's interesting. I compiled it without problems. Why would it look for langinfo.h on one machine and not another? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
At 9:35 AM -0600 5/16/00, Nate Williams wrote: If this Open Motif can be distributed as a port or package for FreeBSD itself (and it seems to me that it can), then what hassle is that for JDK on FreeBSD? It requires two downloads to get a working JDK system. No other OS requires multiple packages to work. As long as package-dependencies are handled automatically, I do not see this as a problem. People shouldn't have to compile Motif up just to get a non-source version of the JDK to work. Versioning problems that can be caused by folks using different include files and/or X than what was used to build the JDK. Bugs that have slipped in due to changes in the Motif port that negatively effect the JDK. Hmm. You're saying that if I already have X installed, and if I already have Open Motif installed, then if JDK uses these already-working packages it will have bugs, and thus it has to install it's own version of Motif? (and it's own version of X?). I don't have any reason to doubt you, if you say that's true, but if that's true then it does not leave me with a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about JDK/Motif. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
If this Open Motif can be distributed as a port or package for FreeBSD itself (and it seems to me that it can), then what hassle is that for JDK on FreeBSD? It requires two downloads to get a working JDK system. No other OS requires multiple packages to work. As long as package-dependencies are handled automatically, I do not see this as a problem. People shouldn't have to compile Motif up just to get a non-source version of the JDK to work. Versioning problems that can be caused by folks using different include files and/or X than what was used to build the JDK. Bugs that have slipped in due to changes in the Motif port that negatively effect the JDK. Hmm. You're saying that if I already have X installed, and if I already have Open Motif installed, then if JDK uses these already-working packages it will have bugs, and thus it has to install it's own version of Motif? No, I'm saying that OpenSource Motif *will* be going through lots of gyrations in the future, and these gyrations may cause instabilities in the JDK. But, if the JDK uses the Motif version it was compiled against, it will work 'consistently. Unlike X (which rarely changes), I suspect the Motif stuff to change alot. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
No, I'm saying that OpenSource Motif *will* be going through lots of gyrations in the future, and these gyrations may cause instabilities in the JDK. But, if the JDK uses the Motif version it was compiled against, it will work 'consistently. Unlike X (which rarely changes), I suspect the Motif stuff to change alot. Nate IT seems to me that this might not be much of a problem. Have a "last stable motif" port/package. The JDK guys can choose when to move it to a new version, and should do so when they see a version that doen't cause problems for the JDK. Don't give this port/package the normal motif library names, but sim-link it to those names. Compile the JDK against the special lib names, not the normal motif names. Now, have a "bleeding edge" motif that can be installed. it installs into the normal motif locations. look what this does for the user: 1. If they'd rather be stable anyways, they just install the last-good version. all is well - both the jdk and their other apps see an acceptable motif. 2. If they need bleeding-edge, they can install it. JDK will still work. Yes, they have two motif versions, but they need both versions, so this is OK. 3. If they start out last-good, and move to bleeding edge, everything works out just fine. 4. If a bleeding-edge user updates their last-good motif, it doesn't screw things up since last-good can't sim-link over the real libs. Just the JDK is affected. 5. If a user doesn't use the jdk, they can install bleeding-edge and it works for all non-JDK apps. One usefull addon would be to have bleeding-edge re-create the last-good sim-links when it is pkg_deleted if that's possible. Just my $0.02 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Nate Williams wrote: Unlike X (which rarely changes), I suspect the Motif stuff to change alot. I'm unclear on what gyrations you are expecting from a mature API codified in an IEEE standard. As long as you're using the Motif standard interface in your code you should have nothing to worry about. Brandon D. Valentine -- "You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset." - Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
Unlike X (which rarely changes), I suspect the Motif stuff to change alot. I'm unclear on what gyrations you are expecting from a mature API codified in an IEEE standard. As long as you're using the Motif standard interface in your code you should have nothing to worry about. Ahh, but I'm not expecting the API to change, but I'm expecting the internals to change. For example, Sun changed Motif in between JDK1.1 and JDK1.2 because of bugs in it. Also, Motif doesn't compile under FreeBSD cleanly right now, and I expect it to change as it supports internationalization and such. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Motif is now Open Source 8)
Check it out at: http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ "We want to support the momentum of Open Source operating systems such as Linux® and FreeBSD by developing an Open Motif® licence for use with Open Source operating systems." Also the OpenGroup is looking for sites to mirror their Motif distribution 8) Happy Downloading! -- Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
Amancio Hasty wrote: Check it out at: http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ Yes, that is great news! I tried compiling it, but I had trouble with lib/Xm/Scale.c. It wanted to include langinfo.h, which FreeBSD doesn't have. So, I copied langinfo.h from /usr/compat/linux/usr/include, but even then, there was this constant that was undeclared. So, did you get it to compile, and would you mind posting a patch? I understand some FreeBSD people (epecially the JDK folks) really want to run Motif on FreeBSD. Way to go, Open Group. That ought to shut up the Linux Qt/Gtk "we want everything on the planet free w/source code" whiners. I mean, I like Qt and Gtk. But, having Motif source freely available for Linux and FreeBSD is a big step, IMO. - Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
Check it out at: http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/ "We want to support the momentum of Open Source operating systems such as Linux® and FreeBSD by developing an Open Motif® licence for use with Open Source operating systems." Also the OpenGroup is looking for sites to mirror their Motif distribution 8) I have a copy. However, the license is 'interesting' enough to read that I'm not sure it can be used inside the JDK distribution, so if someone can give me an explanation that I can understand that I'm legal to distribute the library as part of an application, please show me in terms a mere engineer can understand. Thanks! Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
I have a copy. However, the license is 'interesting' enough to read that I'm not sure it can be used inside the JDK distribution, so if someone can give me an explanation that I can understand that I'm legal to distribute the library as part of an application, please show me in terms a mere engineer can understand. I think that you no longer have to include Motif with the JDK. Just let the distribution of Motif come from freebsd.org , i.e., a port or a package. My take is that companies distributing FreeBSD or linux are free to distribute the source and binary for those "Open Source" operating systems. -- Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
I have a copy. However, the license is 'interesting' enough to read that I'm not sure it can be used inside the JDK distribution, so if someone can give me an explanation that I can understand that I'm legal to distribute the library as part of an application, please show me in terms a mere engineer can understand. I think that you no longer have to include Motif with the JDK. Just let the distribution of Motif come from freebsd.org , i.e., a port or a package. Too much hassle IMO. I'd *much* rather distribute it as part of the package, and I'm looking into how feasible it would be to distribute inside of the JDK. Well, just asked them because I don't see any problems in doing what you want because is for an Open Source Operating System. -- Amancio Hasty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message