Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Sat, Dec 09, 2000 at 11:36:26AM +0900, Tatsumi Hosokawa scribbled: | At Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:18:50 -0600, | Michael C . Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Do you have Alpha boot floppies? Does kons25/big5con/korean compile | on Alpha? Would this fit on our ever growing mfsroot.flp and kern.flp? | | I don't have alpha machine and my knowledge about Alpha architecture | is very limited. But kons25 currently can't be compiled on Alpha | machine, and is disabled if ARCH==alpha (perhaps | release/localization/kon2 should be release/localization/i386/kon2). | | I recall seeing the release engineers struggling with fitting the kernel. | | I have committed to move *.ko modules to mfsroot.flp (and I think it's | easily extended to the third floppy or CD-ROM) last month. This is | not enabled on Alpha currently, but I think it can be also used on | alpha architecture. I've not put it to alpha floppy only because I | dont have alpha testbed. | | If you copy release/i386/drivers.conf to release/alpha and edit it to | fit the alpha architecture, drivers will be moved to mfsroot.flp | easily. | | It would be hard to make OpenBOOT and SRM do what we do in kons25. | (Doable, but someone has to do it.) I also know that Alpha | SRM+vidcontrol+sc0 can only have one video mode, 80x25. Can | Mr. Yokota clarify this for me? | | Does vidcontrol on Alpha support loadable font option? Russian | support uses only this function and does not use graphics console. | Other European languages can be supported in this way. Yes, vidcontrol on Alpha supports loadable fonts. But foxfair told me that he and vanilla looked into kons/big5con for Alpha. Their conclusion was that it is pretty impossible, but not too impossible. :) DECUnix/Tru64 has support for CJK and many other languages in SRM. However, FreeBSD's vidcontrol cannot do what SRM does, for some reason. -- +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +--+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
At Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:18:50 -0600, Michael C . Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have Alpha boot floppies? Does kons25/big5con/korean compile on Alpha? Would this fit on our ever growing mfsroot.flp and kern.flp? I don't have alpha machine and my knowledge about Alpha architecture is very limited. But kons25 currently can't be compiled on Alpha machine, and is disabled if ARCH==alpha (perhaps release/localization/kon2 should be release/localization/i386/kon2). I recall seeing the release engineers struggling with fitting the kernel. I have committed to move *.ko modules to mfsroot.flp (and I think it's easily extended to the third floppy or CD-ROM) last month. This is not enabled on Alpha currently, but I think it can be also used on alpha architecture. I've not put it to alpha floppy only because I dont have alpha testbed. If you copy release/i386/drivers.conf to release/alpha and edit it to fit the alpha architecture, drivers will be moved to mfsroot.flp easily. It would be hard to make OpenBOOT and SRM do what we do in kons25. (Doable, but someone has to do it.) I also know that Alpha SRM+vidcontrol+sc0 can only have one video mode, 80x25. Can Mr. Yokota clarify this for me? Does vidcontrol on Alpha support loadable font option? Russian support uses only this function and does not use graphics console. Other European languages can be supported in this way. hosokawa -- Tatsumi Hosokawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sm.rim.or.jp/~hosokawa/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: I don't think importing multilingual sysinstall will detract effort from libh. You see, even if it is maintained separately from the -current, it has its own maintainers and developers. I expect they are the same people who will maintain and develop I18N sysinstall when it is imported to the -current. They may or may not be libh developers at the same time. But, I don't think I18N sysinstall is suddenly needing a large army of developers and will steal them from the libh developer base. Moreover, libh is a coding effort, while i18n sysinstall by and large is not. And even where code comes into play with i18n sysinstall, it is of a very different kind than libh code. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The bronze landed last, which canceled that method of impartial choice." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:28:28PM +0900, Tatsumi Hosokawa scribbled: | I've ported Multilingual sysinstall to -current. I put the latest | source and binaries (Japanese/Englush only) is at | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/5.0-CURRENT/release-20001206-1/ | (please note that non-English docuemnt files are based on 4.2-RELEASE) | | Currently, this implementation supports Japanese, Korean, Traditional | Chinese, and Russian. The status of translation work is: | | Japanese: finished | Korean: finished | Traditional Chinese: about to finish | Russian: only *.hlp files have been translated | | This code has some minor problems, but it works. I think it's better | to change the development of this project to open style. I would like | to import this code to -current CVS repositry soon if there's no | objections. As we wait for libh development, I do not think we should exert efforts to try for another solution. This tends to allow for slack in further development of better products. A good example would be a proposal by Alfred Pernstein to slightly modify RELENG_4 SMP for the duration of SMPNG development. The proposal was not well accepted due to the reason I stated above. We really should concentrate on libh as a complete and _clean_ solution. In addition, the purpose of putting localized sysinstall in -CURRENT is rather dubious. -CURRENT/HEAD is a developers' branch, people who use this branch should be able to read English and the system error messages. If they cannot install the system with English sysinstall, I would have doubts on their programming and testing ability. People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. I would have no objections to L10N'ized sysinstall being maintained in the same way that PAO is maintained. The boot floppies and iso images can be put up somewhere for download, and maintained in RELENG_4. Normally, I would welcome any I18N/L10N efforts in FreeBSD. However, the FreeBSD Project's official position paraphrased is "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." Combined with the point that we should not divert efforts from libh, I hold the opinion that we should not import this. Finally, still many thanks and applause to Tatsumi and others for this work. | FYI: for 4.2-RELEASE, | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/4.2-RELEASE/release-20001205-1/ | contains source, and binaries for all supported languages. -- +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +--+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
* Michael C . Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001206 01:46] wrote: On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:28:28PM +0900, Tatsumi Hosokawa scribbled: | I've ported Multilingual sysinstall to -current. I put the latest | source and binaries (Japanese/Englush only) is at | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/5.0-CURRENT/release-20001206-1/ | (please note that non-English docuemnt files are based on 4.2-RELEASE) | | Currently, this implementation supports Japanese, Korean, Traditional | Chinese, and Russian. The status of translation work is: | | Japanese: finished | Korean: finished | Traditional Chinese: about to finish | Russian: only *.hlp files have been translated | | This code has some minor problems, but it works. I think it's better | to change the development of this project to open style. I would like | to import this code to -current CVS repositry soon if there's no | objections. As we wait for libh development, I do not think we should exert efforts to try for another solution. This tends to allow for slack in further development of better products. No, this motivates those working for a greater good to produce more than just promises of what's to come. A good example would be a proposal by Alfred Pernstein to slightly modify RELENG_4 SMP for the duration of SMPNG development. The proposal was not well accepted due to the reason I stated above. The proposal was only rejected as something that wasn't going to be the be all and end all of our threading system. As a middle ground it would have many advantages over what's currently in place. The same applies here. Sure libh is supposed to be an order of magnitude better than internationalized sysinstall, but at the current time libh is as much vapourware as KSEs are. We really should concentrate on libh as a complete and _clean_ solution. Yes, and no, you should continue doing so, and I have high hopes that it's the best installer system ever, however an interm solution would be a great way to attract new users and developers. In addition, the purpose of putting localized sysinstall in -CURRENT is rather dubious. -CURRENT/HEAD is a developers' branch, people who use this branch should be able to read English and the system error messages. If they cannot install the system with English sysinstall, I would have doubts on their programming and testing ability. People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. Why? It's my native tongue and even I have issues on occasion with comments and manpage additions that forieners correct (Bruce, Eivind, Asmodai and Sheldon to name a few.) Having a problem with english doesn't make anyone less of an intellectual. I would have no objections to L10N'ized sysinstall being maintained in the same way that PAO is maintained. The boot floppies and iso images can be put up somewhere for download, and maintained in RELENG_4. Maybe after libh is released... since you guys aren't basing your work on sysinstall, it's not like you'd have to deal with a code merger. Normally, I would welcome any I18N/L10N efforts in FreeBSD. However, the FreeBSD Project's official position paraphrased is "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." Combined with the point that we should not divert efforts from libh, I hold the opinion that we should not import this. I think it should be brought in and quickly MFC'd for the next 4.3 release. I see no conflict between these two efforts and since one seems pretty much completed, I'd like to see it in the base system. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [[EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED]] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 02:30:21AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein scribbled: | * Michael C . Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001206 01:46] wrote: | On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:28:28PM +0900, Tatsumi Hosokawa scribbled: | | I've ported Multilingual sysinstall to -current. I put the latest | | source and binaries (Japanese/Englush only) is at | | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/5.0-CURRENT/release-20001206-1/ | | (please note that non-English docuemnt files are based on 4.2-RELEASE) | | | | Currently, this implementation supports Japanese, Korean, Traditional | | Chinese, and Russian. The status of translation work is: | | | | Japanese: finished | | Korean: finished | | Traditional Chinese: about to finish | | Russian: only *.hlp files have been translated | | | | This code has some minor problems, but it works. I think it's better | | to change the development of this project to open style. I would like | | to import this code to -current CVS repositry soon if there's no | | objections. | | As we wait for libh development, I do not think we should exert | efforts to try for another solution. This tends to allow for | slack in further development of better products. | | No, this motivates those working for a greater good to produce | more than just promises of what's to come. [snip] | People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to | understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. | | Why? It's my native tongue and even I have issues on occasion with | comments and manpage additions that forieners correct (Bruce, Eivind, | Asmodai and Sheldon to name a few.) Having a problem with english | doesn't make anyone less of an intellectual. | | I would have no objections to L10N'ized sysinstall being maintained in | the same way that PAO is maintained. The boot floppies and iso images | can be put up somewhere for download, and maintained in RELENG_4. | | Maybe after libh is released... since you guys aren't basing your | work on sysinstall, it's not like you'd have to deal with a code | merger. | This is not about a code merge, this is about how we will support users who use this stuff. If we want to do this, we need to have a centralized support system/mailing lists, instead of the currently very segmented local support systems. I would have no objections if we can figure out a way to support this in a bug reporting system, mailing lists. But I agree you are right, we could use this in 4.x. Perhaps I did not think this one thoroughly. | I think it should be brought in and quickly MFC'd for the next | 4.3 release. | | I see no conflict between these two efforts and since one seems | pretty much completed, I'd like to see it in the base system. -- +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +--+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
As we wait for libh development, I do not think we should exert efforts to try for another solution. This tends to allow for slack in further development of better products. A good example would be a proposal by Alfred Pernstein to slightly modify RELENG_4 SMP for the duration of SMPNG development. The proposal was not well accepted due to the reason I stated above. We really should concentrate on libh as a complete and _clean_ solution. Sure, libh is a better solution. But, don't you think it's still good to have something working until it will become available. In addition, the purpose of putting localized sysinstall in -CURRENT is rather dubious. -CURRENT/HEAD is a developers' branch, people who use this branch should be able to read English and the system error messages. If they cannot install the system with English sysinstall, I would have doubts on their programming and testing ability. People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. I think you are missing the point here. As you point out, the -current is for developers; it's for development and for testing. I don't think Tatsumi wants -current users to use I18N sysinstall to install -current, but, rather wants them to have a look at the code and test it. I would have no objections to L10N'ized sysinstall being maintained in the same way that PAO is maintained. The boot floppies and iso images can be put up somewhere for download, and maintained in RELENG_4. Why should it be in RELENG_4? If it's maintained in -current and regularly MFCed to RELENG_4, it is exposed to wide audience of -current developers and -stable users. That will attract more comments and bug reports, and will also minimize the delay between regular releases of FreeBSD and I18N/L10N sysinstall for them; the delay normally associated with L10N sysinstall (and PAO) after regular FreeBSD releases. Normally, I would welcome any I18N/L10N efforts in FreeBSD. However, the FreeBSD Project's official position paraphrased is "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." See my comments above. Combined with the point that we should not divert efforts from libh, I hold the opinion that we should not import this. I don't think importing multilingual sysinstall will detract effort from libh. You see, even if it is maintained separately from the -current, it has its own maintainers and developers. I expect they are the same people who will maintain and develop I18N sysinstall when it is imported to the -current. They may or may not be libh developers at the same time. But, I don't think I18N sysinstall is suddenly needing a large army of developers and will steal them from the libh developer base. Finally, still many thanks and applause to Tatsumi and others for this work. The same from me to them too. Kazu | FYI: for 4.2-RELEASE, | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/4.2-RELEASE/release-20001205-1/ | contains source, and binaries for all supported languages. -- +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +--+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
At Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:25:30 +0900, Kazutaka YOKOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we wait for libh development, I do not think we should exert efforts to try for another solution. This tends to allow for slack in further development of better products. A good example would be a proposal by Alfred Pernstein to slightly modify RELENG_4 SMP for the duration of SMPNG development. The proposal was not well accepted due to the reason I stated above. We really should concentrate on libh as a complete and _clean_ solution. Sure, libh is a better solution. But, don't you think it's still good to have something working until it will become available. Multilingual sysinstall project started when FreeBSD is 2.0.5, and maintained in PAO-like style, but it's very larger patch than PAO (especially, it replaces almost all messages in release/sysinstall/menus.c) and it makes that "keeping current" work very difficult. Almost all code of this project is written when FreeBSD is 2.x, and it's in "maintainance-only" phase for years. If it's on -current tree, our work can be easier, and many developpers other than us also can do this work. If this makes us the spare time, perhaps we can help libh work. I don't think sysinstall is better solution, but it's available now. I'll glad to cvs delete this code entirely, if we can use better solution. In addition, the purpose of putting localized sysinstall in -CURRENT is rather dubious. -CURRENT/HEAD is a developers' branch, people who use this branch should be able to read English and the system error messages. If they cannot install the system with English sysinstall, I would have doubts on their programming and testing ability. People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. I think you are missing the point here. As you point out, the -current is for developers; it's for development and for testing. I don't think Tatsumi wants -current users to use I18N sysinstall to install -current, but, rather wants them to have a look at the code and test it. My main target is RELENG_4 and I hope this won't live until 5.x-RELEASE. It's in -current for only testing purpose. I would have no objections to L10N'ized sysinstall being maintained in the same way that PAO is maintained. The boot floppies and iso images can be put up somewhere for download, and maintained in RELENG_4. Why should it be in RELENG_4? If it's maintained in -current and regularly MFCed to RELENG_4, it is exposed to wide audience of -current developers and -stable users. That will attract more comments and bug reports, and will also minimize the delay between regular releases of FreeBSD and I18N/L10N sysinstall for them; the delay normally associated with L10N sysinstall (and PAO) after regular FreeBSD releases. And the delay has been prolonged sometimes because only a few developper was busy :-). Normally, I would welcome any I18N/L10N efforts in FreeBSD. However, the FreeBSD Project's official position paraphrased is "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." See my comments above. Combined with the point that we should not divert efforts from libh, I hold the opinion that we should not import this. I don't think importing multilingual sysinstall will detract effort from libh. You see, even if it is maintained separately from the -current, it has its own maintainers and developers. I expect they are the same people who will maintain and develop I18N sysinstall when it is imported to the -current. They may or may not be libh developers at the same time. But, I don't think I18N sysinstall is suddenly needing a large army of developers and will steal them from the libh developer base. Yes. Programmers are needed when some change in source tree break this code and we can find it easier if it's in -current tree. Otherwise, only translators are needed for maintainance of *.TXT, *.hlp, and catalog files. Finally, still many thanks and applause to Tatsumi and others for this work. The same from me to them too. Thank you ! hosokawa To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 02:30:21AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: magnitude better than internationalized sysinstall, but at the current time libh is as much vapourware as KSEs are. No, KSE has paid developers working on it. When was the last cycle spent on libh? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
"TH" == Tatsumi Hosokawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TH Multilingual sysinstall project started when FreeBSD is 2.0.5, and TH maintained in PAO-like style, but it's very larger patch than PAO TH (especially, it replaces almost all messages in TH release/sysinstall/menus.c) and it makes that "keeping current" work TH very difficult. Almost all code of this project is written when TH FreeBSD is 2.x, and it's in "maintainance-only" phase for years. I am working for translating sysinstall messages, release notes and help files to Korean for 4 years, from 2.2.1-RELEASE. I would be very happy if it will be included in -current and RELENG_4 system. Sometimes the release of I18N sysinstall(and former PAO) was delayed until next release, so if we can release I18N sysinstall timely for each release, it would help non-english users for FreeBSD very much. No other linux or BSD distribution(except localized ones) has such installer. It is very attractive thing for novice FreeBSD users to install in their mother tongue, even if he can understand English. And until libh is really working(hopefully 5.0-RELEASE?), I18N sysinstall is a good alternative. If we have it in -current, it would be relatively easy for debug and improve. I18N sysinstall still have a few bugs to be fixed although Tatsumi and other some CJK developers work. Finally, still many thanks and applause to Tatsumi and others for this work. The same from me to them too. Me too! TH Thank you ! -- +++ Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my employers +++ CHOI Junho [now sleeping]http://www.kr.FreeBSD.org/~cjh [when sleeping][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Korea FreeBSD Users Group/www.kr.FreeBSD.org Web Data Bank/www.wdb.co.kr To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." You seem to be working from the assumption that people who understand English can't understand any other language. I don't know anything about the design question you raise, except that code which has not yet been written always seems more perfect than that which has. :-) -- Trevor Johnson http://jpj.net/~trevor/gpgkey.txt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:03:29PM -0500, Trevor Johnson wrote: People who run -CURRENT should be able to read and write English to understand the code comments, report bugs, and post to the lists in English. "If you don't know what to do with -CURRENT, don't install it." You seem to be working from the assumption that people who understand English can't understand any other language. The reverse is generally true: native speakers of the English/American language often don't understand any other language :-P -- Wilko Bulte Arnhem, the Netherlands [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.freebsd.org http://www.nlfug.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
My feeling on this is that sysinstall is (and always has been :-) at the end of its life and adding multi-lingual capabilities to it is a reasonable part of its retirement. The libh project is promising but suffers from a lack of volunteers, volunteers who aren't working on sysinstall either so I'm not worried about it somehow sucking the necessary time and attention away from libh. Hacking on sysinstall I18N in -current gives the developers the current.freebsd.org snapshot machine as a testing vehicle (why should the SMP people get all the benefit?) and is entirely reasonable as a staging area for -stable, which is also what -current is supposed to be. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
No, KSE has paid developers working on it. When was the last cycle spent on libh? I'm glad you brought that up - I've been trying to find more things for you to do. I'll bring it up during the engineering staff meeting today. ;-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wilko Bulte writes: : You seem to be working from the assumption that people who understand : English can't understand any other language. : : The reverse is generally true: native speakers of the English/American : language often don't understand any other language hai! so desu. americanjin wa nihongo wakarimasen. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Progress report: Multilingual sysinstall for -current
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:28:28PM +0900, Tatsumi Hosokawa scribbled: | I've ported Multilingual sysinstall to -current. I put the latest | source and binaries (Japanese/Englush only) is at | http://people.freebsd.org/~hosokawa/boot-ja/5.0-CURRENT/release-20001206-1/ | (please note that non-English docuemnt files are based on 4.2-RELEASE) Just an idea. :) Do you have Alpha boot floppies? Does kons25/big5con/korean compile on Alpha? Would this fit on our ever growing mfsroot.flp and kern.flp? I recall seeing the release engineers struggling with fitting the kernel. It would be hard to make OpenBOOT and SRM do what we do in kons25. (Doable, but someone has to do it.) I also know that Alpha SRM+vidcontrol+sc0 can only have one video mode, 80x25. Can Mr. Yokota clarify this for me? If this makes into the normal sysinstall, can we simply have several versions of the boot floppies built during make release? Thanks, -- +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +--+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message