On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:17:22PM +0200, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:15:44PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> > On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
> > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it
> > > off. No problem.
> >
starting now, we try hard to make FreeBSD easier to use, more consistent
and friendlier in general for a long time now.
In your terminology making FreeBSD easier for newcomers is "going
down" implies that "going up" is to make it harder for newcomer.
No. It just quickly eliminate 99% of "newcom
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 11:25:07AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> > something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to
> > turn it off.
> >
> > If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just
> > add one more line saying:
> >
> > To disable this mess
> this only generate herds of morons that "know FreeBSD" and dissolve real user
base.
What is the 'real user base?' People who insult newcomers and call them
morons? People who consider it cool to use a OS that is
unnecessarily difficult to learn?
in your way of seeing reality - probably yes
On Jul 7, 2012 10:46 AM, "Wojciech Puchar"
wrote:
>>
>> This is not 'going down'. This is adding features to help newcomers.
You are free to disable them. It will not remove anything
>
> this doesn't help newcomers. Just like "easy installers", "desktop
environments" and so on.
>
> this only gene
This is not 'going down'. This is adding features to help newcomers. You are
free to disable them. It will not remove anything
this doesn't help newcomers. Just like "easy installers", "desktop
environments" and so on.
this only generate herds of morons that "know FreeBSD" and dissolve real
On Jul 7, 2012 10:25 AM, "Wojciech Puchar"
wrote:
>>
>> something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to
>> turn it off.
>>
>> If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just
>> add one more line saying:
>>
>> To disable this message run: echo
something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to
turn it off.
If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just
add one more line saying:
To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc
--
should i - from now, understand that this
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:15:44PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
> > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it
> > off. No problem.
>
> No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is
> cr
On Jul 6, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>
>> The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this
>> means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific.
>>
> with such attitude it will not take long to turn FreeBSD to useless thing,
> not really different f
The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this
means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific.
with such attitude it will not take long to turn FreeBSD to useless thing,
not really different from linux or windows, and about as useful
__
Jonathan McKeown writes:
> No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new
> feature is created and you want it, turn it on.
Commonly known as "opt in".
Robert Huff
___
freebsd-
want -- so maybe the feature should exist (but be off) in FreeBSD and
exist (and be on) in custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't
necessarily expected to know FreeBSD.
This is the most sensible suggestion I've seen in this conversation so far.
indeed this:
---
custom FreeBSD distr
On Thursday 05 July 2012 20:08:36 Eitan Adler wrote
>
> The system should be optimized for new users by default.
No. People aren't new users for long.This makes a lot more sense:
On Thursday 05 July 2012 19:31:17 Garrett Cooper wrote
>
> Here's a *random* thought to consider. This seems like a fe
> As long as it can be toggled off system-wide, persistently (sysctl?), I
> can't see the harm in bringing that in.
It violates the Unix Philosophy.
"Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh
rather than complicate old programs by adding new features."
http://www.faqs.or
I am sorry everybody I simply don't get this conversation - Implement it as a
port - add it to bash/zsh/tcsh as an option - feel free - But if objective is
to make a vanilla FreeBSD easier to use - I can think of 10,000 things (give
or take a couple of 1000's) that would be a more wothy target.
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700
Eitan Adler wrote:
> The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this
> means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific.
This is *not* what Unix has historically been. Historically, Unix has
a history of being "expert-friendly" - be
On 5 July 2012 03:28, Chris Rees wrote:
> On Jul 5, 2012 11:16 AM, "Jonathan McKeown" wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
>> > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote:
>> > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown
>> > >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >> As for the ide
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
>
> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>
>>
>> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
inexperienced users.
Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>>>
>>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moro
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> inexperienced users.
>
> Having to enable it manually defeats i
On 7/5/12 7:18 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
>
> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>
>>
>> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
inexperienced users.
Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>>>
>>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just lik
2012/7/5 Warner Losh :
>
> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just
>> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad.
>
> Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high
> overhead to
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
>
> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>
>>
>> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
inexperienced users.
Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>>>
>>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moro
On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>
> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>> inexperienced users.
>>>
>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>>
>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or
>> is that just another stupi
so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or
is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass?
Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS.
Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just
not just becau
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote:
>
> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>> inexperienced users.
>>>
>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>>
>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or
>> is that just another stupid
On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>> inexperienced users.
>>
>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
>
> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or
> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass?
>
> Quite impor
inexperienced users.
Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose.
so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or
is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass?
Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS.
___
On 7/5/12 12:15 PM, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
>> On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote:
>>> On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown
>>>
>>> wrote:
As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate,
that's the s
That's crazy- this is the logic that led to our sh having tab completion
this feature does not do anything without you knowing. you ENABLE it by
pressing tab
___
freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd
comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to use
a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional tools
it is normal way of using any system. And actually possible with FreeBSD
In 21 century knowing ANYTHING is elitist anyway ;)
No. I think
On Jul 5, 2012 11:16 AM, "Jonathan McKeown" wrote:
>
> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
> > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate,
On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
> On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown
> >
> > wrote:
> >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate,
> >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like:
> >>
> >
33 matches
Mail list logo
