Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
user.vdr writes: As long as there remain some NTSC broadcasts, there might be some that you wish to watch. That's why I wrote: Yes, technically there are still some that exist, for now. However, their death certificate is signed and they're so few that it's not worth mentioning. If you don't think NTSC is worth mentioning, why do you keep posting the same incorrect statements over and over again? You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream I did not say anything about RE-encoding anything. Only about encoding/compressing the high bandwidth datastream the tuner generates from NTSC. And to be clear, this only applies to NTSC, not to ATSC. NTSC streams are not broadcast raw. What do you call encoding data that's already encoded if you don't think it's reencoding? Also, doing so causes degredation so unless there's a need for the user to do so, he's better off not wasting his time. NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo While that's technically possible in _some_ cases, and assuming it's fully implemented and functional, I'm unaware of any software that actually provides raw data to the user. I suppose I should have worded my point differently. The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
user.vdr writes: Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo While that's technically possible in _some_ cases, and assuming it's fully implemented and functional, I'm unaware of any software that actually provides raw data to the user. I suppose I should have worded my point differently. The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. Nope. Prove me wrong. Post the command line to have cx88 (in ports) output encoded (mpeg or similar) video with a pcHDTV HD3000 tuner card receiving a NTSC input. Since you claim that the cx88 output is already encoded, piping the output into mplayer or similar to do the encoding doesn't count. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: Yes, technically there are still some that exist, for now. However, their death certificate is signed and they're so few that it's not worth mentioning. If you don't think NTSC is worth mentioning, why do you keep posting the same incorrect statements over and over again? Your disagree that NTSC is out, soon including the very few exceptions that remain? You disagree that NTSC is not worth mentioning at this point? Well, to be fair, one of those is fact but the other is opinion, which everyone is welcome to -- differing or not. NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. Nope. The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. Nope. It seems you want to talk about things more along the lines of what's technically in the realm of possibility while I prefer sticking to real world scenario application. Which, leaves us at an impasseI guess. Cheers ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. Nope. Prove me wrong. Post the command line to have cx88 (in ports) output encoded (mpeg or similar) video with a pcHDTV HD3000 tuner card receiving a NTSC input. Please see my comment following the bit you quoted. Cheers ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On 06/22/12 11:48, VDR User wrote: [...] NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. Nope. [...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC Black-and-white NTSC was standardized in 1941. Color NTSC was standardized in 1953. What digital parts do you imagine were used in those years? -- George ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've certainly got modern cpu power. actually even intel atom D525 is OK if decoder can be multithreaded. As for analog streams older PCI based TV cards are still useful for converting VHS tapes. realtime encoding of PAL/SECAM input is too - trivial for todays CPU. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've certainly got modern cpu power. actually even intel atom D525 is OK if decoder can be multithreaded. I have a few Atom systems but they all use vdpau for decoding and I never bothered to see how just the Atom holds up on it's own for decoding. :) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
I have a few Atom systems but they all use vdpau for decoding and I never bothered to see how just the Atom holds up on it's own for decoding. :) didn't have 1920x1080 video but 1366x768 MPEG4 plays smooth ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
a lot of CPU or hardware compression. Decoding either takes a lot of CPU (or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use watching SDTV movie takes very little part of one core of any modern CPU including intel atom. encoding SDTV will take more but still not much. watching HDTV should work on almost ANY modern PC CPU, including dual core/quad thread atom D525+included graphics, but with no other load as it will be close to saturating all cores/threads. most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote:
[ Added multimedia@ as that is a more appropriate list than hackers ]
I just moved into a very cramped apartment
we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards]
Recording ATSC takes very little CPU. Recording NTSC takes either
a lot of CPU or hardware compression. Decoding either takes a lot of CPU
(or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use
at(1) for automated recordings. A full ATSC channel is 19.3 Mbps.
Some tuners allow filtering by PID, which saves disk space.
Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding
in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL,
etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. The broadcast
streams are digital so when you record them, you are actually just
saving the stream to some type of media (usually a harddrive). It's
like saving a file where the file contents is audio/video, and it
takes however long your show/timer/etc is. The only impact on the cpu
is the same impact you have when you save any big file -- very little
on any modern cpu.
Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream
which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full
stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so
there's no problem there.
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Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
user.vdr writes: Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. This is incorrect. ATSC is compressed before broadcast, so you receive the data already compresed. NTSC and PAL are broadcast in analog. The tuner performs A-to-D which gives an uncompressed data stream. Have fun trying to store that. As a practical matter, you have to compress the data in real time. Some, not all, tuners include hardware compression. Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so there's no problem there. This appariently refers to ATSC. Yes, modern disks have plenty of bandwidth to store the entire ATSC stream. The main reason to filter PIDs is to save disk *space*. Also, some software can't select which program to decode. Wojciech writes: most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. Many people overestimate the moderness of most people's CPUs. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: user.vdr writes: Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. This is incorrect. ATSC is compressed before broadcast, so you receive the data already compresed. NTSC and PAL are broadcast in analog. The tuner performs A-to-D which gives an uncompressed data stream. Have fun trying to store that. As a practical matter, you have to compress the data in real time. Some, not all, tuners include hardware compression. All consumer digital broadcasts are compressed typically with mpeg2 or mpeg4. With very very very few exceptions, all analog NTSC broadcasts have been switched to digital, by the FCC mandated deadline of June 12, 2009. Tuners perform demodulation, not decompression. There are a few premium or full-featured devices which have an on-board decoder such as a Hauppauge Nexus-s or the TechnoTrend S2-6400. You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream unless you want to alter the resolution, bitrate, or compression method. Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so there's no problem there. This appariently refers to ATSC. Yes, modern disks have plenty of bandwidth to store the entire ATSC stream. The main reason to filter PIDs is to save disk *space*. Also, some software can't select which program to decode. It refers to ANY multiplex. Again, the standard used for broadcast is irrelevant. Also, any program that can tune a channel has the ability to filter the pids, otherwise it would be impossible to tune a channel. Wojciech writes: most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. Many people overestimate the moderness of most people's CPUs. An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've certainly got modern cpu power. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make it so you can watch TV on your computer I know about some this for windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen 3. Any tips on making it optimal This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor instead? Regards! -- Niclas Zeising ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising zeis...@daemonic.se wrote: On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make it so you can watch TV on your computer I know about some this for windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen 3. Any tips on making it optimal This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor instead? Regards! -- Niclas Zeising I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his computer so he can watch TV on the PC also... Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See Setting Up TV Cards and a good list is freebsd-multimedia http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
Just a small notes on requirements we *DO NOT* have cable or any other
non-broadcast service (we are using a broadcast signal only [current
US {NYC} standards])
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Juergen Lock n...@jelal.kn-bremen.de wrote:
In article
cakyr3zwqqyihzcomyuobobou-svqylmgk36qdnebvcvgbhj...@mail.gmail.com you
write:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising zeis...@daemonic.se wrote:
On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for
one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make
it so you can watch TV on your computer I know about some this for
windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing
all the research I need to make sure that the following is true:
1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to
watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be
used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market
2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this
happen
3. Any tips on making it optimal
This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV
screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern
computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an
extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor
instead?
Regards!
--
Niclas Zeising
I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his
computer so he can watch TV on the PC also...
Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See Setting Up TV Cards
and a good list is freebsd-multimedia
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html
That handbook chapter only mentions analog bktr(4) tuner cards so
it's a bit outdated. Nowadays you can also use cx88-based analog
and dvb-t/atsc(?) pci(e) tuner cards driven by the multimedia/cx88
port, as well as a greater variety of usb tuners supported by
multimedia/webcamd which runs the Linux v4l/dvb driver code in
FreeBSD userland. See
http://wiki.freebsd.org/WebcamCompat
for some tuners people have reported as working. Another usb
atsc tuner that has good chances of working is this one:
http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-950Q
(at least it seems pretty popular on Linux.)
And about tv apps that you can control using a remote (usually via
comms/lirc), the most popular ones are multimedia/mythtv and
multimedia/vdr, see these pages:
http://wiki.freebsd.org/HTPC
http://wiki.freebsd.org/MythTV
and
http://wiki.freebsd.org/VDR
as well as multimedia/xbmc-pvr that you can use with vdr as backend
as also described in the above vdr wiki page.
HTH, :)
Juergen
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Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
In article cakyr3zwqqyihzcomyuobobou-svqylmgk36qdnebvcvgbhj...@mail.gmail.com you write: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising zeis...@daemonic.se wrote: On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make it so you can watch TV on your computer I know about some this for windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen 3. Any tips on making it optimal This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor instead? Regards! -- Niclas Zeising I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his computer so he can watch TV on the PC also... Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See Setting Up TV Cards and a good list is freebsd-multimedia http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html That handbook chapter only mentions analog bktr(4) tuner cards so it's a bit outdated. Nowadays you can also use cx88-based analog and dvb-t/atsc(?) pci(e) tuner cards driven by the multimedia/cx88 port, as well as a greater variety of usb tuners supported by multimedia/webcamd which runs the Linux v4l/dvb driver code in FreeBSD userland. See http://wiki.freebsd.org/WebcamCompat for some tuners people have reported as working. Another usb atsc tuner that has good chances of working is this one: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-950Q (at least it seems pretty popular on Linux.) And about tv apps that you can control using a remote (usually via comms/lirc), the most popular ones are multimedia/mythtv and multimedia/vdr, see these pages: http://wiki.freebsd.org/HTPC http://wiki.freebsd.org/MythTV and http://wiki.freebsd.org/VDR as well as multimedia/xbmc-pvr that you can use with vdr as backend as also described in the above vdr wiki page. HTH, :) Juergen ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how to turn my computer into a TV
[ Added multimedia@ as that is a more appropriate list than hackers ]
I just moved into a very cramped apartment
we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards]
You'll need to know if you have any NTSC (analog) stations you
care about or if everything is ATSC (digital). Hopefully your
building has a good antenna system.
Next, select your tuner(s). You have a choice of tuners that connect
via Ethernet (HDHomeRun, pros: small external box, doesn't need a slot,
works with any OS, better diagnostic info than others. cons: I've seen
a *lot* of postings with people saying that various other tuners get better
reception, digital only no NTSC analog), Firewire (if they are still
available?), USB, PCIe cards (needs a slot), PCI cards (needs a slot).
Some cards also do FM radio.
2. What ports to install
Depends on what tuner(s) you select.
Cards based on cx88 need multimedia/cx88 and multimedia/libtuner
http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki
has a list of supported cards.
Some cards are supported by bktr(4).
Make sure the tuner you select is supported by FreeBSD.
Recording ATSC takes very little CPU. Recording NTSC takes either
a lot of CPU or hardware compression. Decoding either takes a lot of CPU
(or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use
at(1) for automated recordings. A full ATSC channel is 19.3 Mbps.
Some tuners allow filtering by PID, which saves disk space.
For playback you can use mplayer or any of several similar programs.
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how to turn my computer into a TV
I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make it so you can watch TV on your computer I know about some this for windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen 3. Any tips on making it optimal ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
