Re: Python 37/38 conflict, was Re: Trubles compiling lxqt on RPi4

[Thomas Mueller]

> No real favorites. In emergencies I tend to pick up the telephone.

> This doesn't seem like an emergency, and in any case the phone is a poor
> medium for a problem like this. There are some ports under /usr/ports/irc,
> if you have suggestions I could try one or more. If a phone call is useful,
> my number is 530 753 2005, California PDT. The answering machine screens
> calls, I pick up if I recognize the caller's message. I can return calls
> anywhere in the lower 48.

> It's important to remember that even if the comms delay is zero my 
> comprehension
> delay is much greater than zero. Sometimes infinite. That's apt to either 
> bore or
> frustrate experts.

> Mark Millard is trying to give me an inkling of how poudriere works. It's a 
> stunningly
> complex process, apparently approximating individual virtual hosts compiling 
> each port.
> I'd like to see the ports system keep working as it has in the past, but that 
> seemingly
> requires a kind of machine intelligence that hasn't evolved yet. Poudriere 
> seems like
> a brute force approach. Persuading ports (and porters) to cooperate is more 
> efficient
> if it's possible.

> Thanks for reading, and any thoughts you might have!

> bob prohaska

I've been thinking about what to use to build FreeBSD ports, if I go ahead and 
build FreeBSD 13.0-STABLE or -current: portmaster, poudriere (I am reluctant), 
synth (seems to have fallen out of favor), or NetBSD pkgsrc.

I don't like the dialog4ports, and much prefer the way NetBSD pkgsrc or Gentoo 
Linux portage keep the options in /etc/mk.conf or /etc/make.conf .

I haven't updated FreeBSD since May 2019 because of troubles with network 
connectivity in releng-12 and 13 (May 2019), though that may possibly be better 
now.

My question, Bob, is, if you are dissatisfied with poudriere, what do you use 
for FreeBSD ports?

Tom

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Re: portsnap

[Thomas Mueller]

> Kudos to Stefan for keeping portmaster relevant and up-to-date.
> But I never understood the appeal of portsnap. What's the advantage over

> svnlite co ...
> cd /usr/ports; make update

> This mechanism is in the base system, so an extra tool demands some
> justification ;-)

> Kind regards,
> Patrick

> punkt.de GmbH
> Patrick M. Hausen

Better yet, I built the full subversion from FreeBSD ports and NetBSD pkgsrc so 
am able to use from either FreeBSD or NetBSD.

But the useful days of svnlite or svn with FreeBSD with ports tree seem to end 
with the migration to git scheduled for the end of next March; already ended 
for FreeBSD doc and current src trees.

I guess svnlite will be dropped from FreeBSD when it will no longer be usable.

Any way portsnap can be updated to deal with a git repository?

I switched from portsnap to subversion following FreeBSD's switch from csup to 
subversion for security reasons in summer 2012 (to the best of my memory).

I figured if I needed subversion to update src and doc trees, may as well also 
use it with ports tree: one-stop shopping.

Tom

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portmaster new development

[Thomas Mueller]

> > And as portsnap user I have a question: Do they planning deprecation of

> > portmaster too?

> No, I'm actively working on portmaster and have rewritten it from
> scratch for better performance (and additional features, e.g. building
> in a clean chroot jail, similar to synth or poudriere).

> I have been using that version for more than one year, but the
> functionality is not complete, yet.

> On a test system with > 2200 installed ports it takes less than 10
> seconds to identify the ~600 out-of-date ports (that I keep in this
> state for testing of the upgrade strategy function), which is more
> than 30 times faster than the same operation with the "official"
> portmaster.

> Until completion of that version, I'll continue to maintain and
> update the current portmaster port ...

> Regards, STefan

Question about the relation of portsnap and portmaster reminds me of Java and 
Javascript, or potato and sweet potato (not closely related).

Since my question is about a new portmaster, I rename the subject to 
"portmaster" or "portmaster new development", rather than hijack the "portsnap" 
thread.

Which portmaster do I get if I build and install what is currently in the ports 
tree?

amelia2# ls -l ports-mgmt/portmaster
total 16
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1479 Dec 27 02:01 Makefile
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   184 Feb 28  2018 distinfo
drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel   512 Dec 27 02:01 files
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1189 May  6  2019 pkg-descr

from a fresh svn up of the ports tree.

An improved portmaster arouses my interest.  Maybe modify the name so it can be 
added to the ports tree and coexist with the "official" portmaster.

Desired features/options would be to keep going rather than stop when one port 
fails to build, and the ability to install build dependencies, which may be 
useful for building other software.

With synth, I had a difficult time getting everything that was built to 
install, some packages like bison are needed in building other software.

How is poudriere in that regard?  I never used poudriere, have been intimidated 
by not wanting to use zfs or dialog4ports, or such an elaborate setup just to 
update one or a few ports.

Gentoo Linux with portage has "--with-bdeps=y" which installs build 
dependencies when desired.

I found that poudriere uses dialog4ports; I much prefer to save options in a 
file such as Gentoo Linux does with make.conf and (NetBSD) pkgsrc does with 
mk.conf .

I once got a royal mess of circular/jumbled dependencies with dialog4ports; 
cleaning was a major nuisance, nothing simple like editing /etc/mk.conf or 
/etc/make.conf .

I would like to be free of dialog4ports; the older dialog was worse and messed 
up my screen.

Tom

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Re: Time to swicth from svn to git ?

[Thomas Mueller]

> > https://cgit.freebsd.org shows idle 5 days.

> O don't really know how that idle is counted, but anyway,
> https://cgit.freebsd.org/doc/ shows the last commit is about 3 hours
ago.

> > I haven't tried to git-clone the doc tree, would it be
> > git clone https://git.freebsd.org/doc ?

> There is a "clone" section in the bottom of
> https://cgit.freebsd.org/doc , you are very welcomed to try to clone
> from the first two, git.freebsd.org should direct you to the closest
> mirror.

> Best,
> Li-Wen

Thanks for info.

I clicked on the doc, on https://cgit.freebsd.org/, got the git URLs.

I used the first, https://git.freebsd.org/doc.git , and it worked.

Just before doing that, I moved /BETA1/usr/doc to /BETA1/usr/doc-svn just in 
case, but think I can now delete the doc-svn tree.

Tom

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Re: Time to swicth from svn to git ?

[Thomas Mueller]

> > Ca we switch our ports repository from svn to git ?

> Doc already switched, next will be src, and ports the latest.

> More infos on freebsd-git:
>  Regards.

> Th. Thomas.

https://cgit.freebsd.org shows idle 5 days.  

I haven't tried to git-clone the doc tree, would it be 
git clone https://git.freebsd.org/doc ?

Tom

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Re: [HEADS UP] Planned deprecation of portsnap

[Thomas Mueller]

from Hans Petter Selasky:

> Maybe some silly questions already answered:

> 1) portsnap is populating /usr/ports . Is this location still hardcoded 
> for ports tree installations, or can it be installed anywhere?

> 2) Should portsnap be a wrapper for GIT/SVN whatever is used?

> 3) Should /usr/ports be removed from any mtree files?

> HPS

Ports tree location is not hardcoded to /usr/ports.

Because of multiple FreeBSD installations and wanting to install the ports tree 
redundantly, I have one /usr/ports and, from the other FreeBSD installations, 
use BETA1 as a mount point, so I get /BETA1/usr/ports.

There was a bug beginning somewhere around FreeBSD 11.1 or 11.2, whereby 
running make (such as "make all-depends-list"), would be very messy if ports 
directory was not /usr/ports.

I was able to create a workaround by setting MAKESYSPATH=/usr/share/mk 
(environment variable).

Another workaround was to set ports directory to /usr/ports using a null mount.

Tom

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Re: Why lang/gcc9 depends native-binutils ?

[Thomas Mueller]

> The GNU Binutils are a collection of binary tools. The main ones are:

> * ld - the GNU linker.
> * as - the GNU assembler.

> Most of these programs use BFD, the Binary File Descriptor library, to do
> low-level manipulation. Many of them also use the opcodes library to assemble
> and disassemble machine instructions.

> This port may be used as a replacement for the system binutils and support
> features from the latest versions of GCC.

> For cross-compilation, see the devel/cross-binutils port.

> WWW: https://www.gnu.org/software/binutils/

> Mark Millard

This prompted me to run "svn up" on FreeBSD ports tree.

But I found no devel/cross-binutils, you had my hopes up.

There is a cross/cross-binutils in (NetBSD) pkgsrc.

DESCR shows

The cross-binutils pkg is used only by the other `cross' pkgs.  The
binutils provides various binary manipulation utilities as well as the GNU
linker.  (The assembler is bundled with each individual cross pkg.)

Tom

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Re: Jumbled dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

> > I do package builds on one machine on my (small) network, using
> > portmaster [...]
[...]
> > And how do I bandage up the foot I shot myself in?

> I understand it might be unpopular, but the preferred way to get
> to stable updates in the ports tree is using poudriere to
> build the ports and the pkg repo.

> p...@opsec.eu+49 171 3101372Now what ?

What is the current status of synth?  I see little or no updating activity, and 
no update to gcc6.aux while gcc is updated to 10.1.

Does poudriere install build dependencies by default or when requested? 

I looked through the FreeBSD Handbook and Porters' Handbook online, and 
couldn't find the answer.

With synth, I had a difficult time getting everything that was built to 
install, some packages like bison are needed in building other software.

How is poudriere in that regard?

Gentoo Linux with portage has "--with-bdeps=y" which installs build 
dependencies when desired.

I found that poudriere uses dialog4ports; I much prefer to save options in a 
file such as Gentoo Linux does with make.conf and (NetBSD) pkgsrc does with 
mk.conf .

I once got a royal mess of circular/jumbled dependencies with dialog4ports; 
cleaning was a major nuisance, nothing simple like editing /etc/mk.conf or 
/etc/make.conf .

I never used pkgsrc with any OS other than NetBSD but have thought about it for 
FreeBSD and possibly Linux.

Tom

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Re: xterm-353

[Thomas Mueller]

> Kevin Oberman writes:
> >  > Where would I find User Agent Switcher by Linder?  Would it be on a
> >  > Mozilla site, and would it work with SeaMonkey?

> >  > Would the several Firefox or SeaMonkey extensions have similar
> >  > functionality?

> >  It's available through Firefox from about:addons. It is the one by Linder,
> >  one of at eat three extensions of the same name. I don't know about
> >  SeaMonkey. Does it support the extension interface like Firefox? If so, it
> >  will probably work. You might also check the website at
> >  http://mybrowseraddon.com/useragent-switcher.html

>   Seamonkey - which was my default browser until it was no longer
> updated -   came with this ability built in.  The only problem was the
> list of alternate identities was vintage, like, 2000 with no way (that
> I knew of)  to change it.


>   Respectfully,


>   Robert Huff

I went to seamonkey-project.org website a few months ago, saw it was still 
being developed, not dead, not lame-duck.

I defined a separate profile, named "chase", where I went to about:config, 
defined general.useragent.override (not sure if I remembered that perfectly) to 
be the regular user agent string but with "SeaMonkey" removed.

Then the web server recognized the browser as Firefox.  I don't see what's so 
bad about including "SeaMonkey", but that's how the web server software works: 
buggy, or maybe the bug is in the head of that software developer and/or 
webmasters who continue to use that web server software even after being 
informed about the bug.

Tom

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Re: xterm-353

[Thomas Mueller]

> This is getting a bit off-topic, but I use Firefox with User Agent Switcher
> by Linder. (There are several Firefox extensions that have VERY similar
> names.) It works perfectly at Chase and also fixes several sites that
> insist on providing the mobile version to FreeBSD. It allows the selection
> of both OS and browser to provide in the user agent ID on a per-site basis.
> It fixes a lot of issues.
> --
> Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer

Where would I find User Agent Switcher by Linder?  Would it be on a Mozilla 
site, and would it work with SeaMonkey?

Would the several Firefox or SeaMonkey extensions have similar functionality?

Better to reply to list only; copy that was sent to me off-list had the same 
Message-ID but was in multipart/alternative.  Maybe the list software sanitized 
the message format?

Tom

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Re: xterm-353

[Thomas Mueller]

> This is quite surprising as I have not seen this. I do get occasional dead
> buttons due to all of the privacy add-ons I run, especially No-Script, but
> also less intrusive ones like Privacy Badger.

> I have seen a few issues with sites taking advantage of some JS functions
> outside of the standard that Chrome has added and Firefox has not yet
> picked up. This is the fault of Chrome playing the old IE game of making
> other browsers notwork correctly on some pages. I also have to fake the UI
> identifier for some sites as they reject access from FreeBSD (Chase Bank,
> I'm looking at you!) or do the wrong thing.

> As regards chromium, I have deleted it it and will not consider ever using
> it due to it's massive data collection and its blocking privacy tools like
> No-Script.

> Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer

I know from experience what you mean with Chase Bank blocking online banking 
access if your user-agent string is not to the website server's liking.

Chase Bank is not the only offender.  Some websites, without blocking access, 
behave differently and wrongly depending on user-agent string.

I got Chase Bank to work with an outdated version of Otter Browser and a fudged 
user agent.

Sometimes it's not what browser you're using, but what browser the website 
software thinks you're using.

I do find some scripts to cause problems and make some websites very slow.

I had problems with Mozilla SeaMonkey on nfl.com when I was looking to see 
highlights on the last Super Bowl (last Sunday night).

I was glad to close that browser window!

Since this problem with Chase, using Mozilla Seamonkey under FreeBSD, affects 
me so directly, I could not resist making this response.

Tom

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Re: CFD: status of Ada-related ports (including ports-mgmt/synth)

[Thomas Mueller]

> [ I found this in my outgoing folder; ahem. ]

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Mark Linimon wrote:
> > As of the following commit, lang/gcc6 is no longer supported:
> 
> >   https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/Mk/bsd.gcc.mk?revision=521584

> GCC 6 hasn't been supported upstream for over a year (end of life)
> and is not covered by Mk/bsd.gcc.mk (aka USE_GCC) any longer. The
> port is still in our tree for the time being, though I marked it for
> expiration end of February - which gives an extra day this year. ;-)

> > I would like to, if possible, eliminate gcc6, as it merely adds 
> > build time on the package builders.

> Is this a concern for all architectures, or mostly non-x86?  We
> can always restrict ONLY_FOR_ARCHS further for such ports if those
> focusing on those architectures are in favor.

> [ Editorial note: In the meantime I made such a change for lang/gcc48. ]

> > There is a variant of lang/gcc6 called lang/gcc6-aux, which is now only 
> > required for the Ada-related ports, including ports-mgmt/synth.  fwiw, 
> > that port is only available for aarch64/amd64/i386.
> 
> > Is anyone willing to take on the work to upgrade our Ada support to
> > some later compiler, so that we can delete lang/gcc6-aux as well?

> lang/gcc6-aux/files carries a lot of patches (2500+ lines) that I
> don't believe should be FreeBSD-local, but upstreamable/upstreamed.

> Also there are some small local patches, some backports, in lang/gcc7 
> and later especially, that really matter.  Any FreeBSD port around GCC 
> probably would want to use those - which is not the case right now.

> Gerald

The following is a message I posted last September 10 to freebsd-ports:

Subject: gcc(6)-aux falling behind?

I notice gcc advancing to 7.4, 8.3 and 9.2 while gcc-aux has not gone above v6.

I believe this is the only Ada compiler for FreeBSD and NetBSD.

Would it be possible to build a gcc that includes Ada using gcc6-aux on the 
source code for gcc 7.4 or 8.3?

Fact that it hasn't been done suggests there might be a reason why.

I had even thought about the possibility of using gcc6-aux or gcc5-aux to 
cross-compile a gcc for Linux.

(end of message from last September 10)

Even if ports-mgmt/synth becomes deprecated, I believe Ada support ought to be 
retained in ports/lang.

I hope gcc6-aux will not be allowed to expire until something is in place to 
succeed it.

One problem porting Ada compiler to other architectures is the need for 
bootstrap which must be in Ada (catch-22).

I notice synth has not been updated in some time.

I want to use or try synth on this computer if I continue with FreeBSD and 
ports just to see if it will build and work.

On FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE, synth built but didn't work well, building only a small 
minority of ports it was tried on.

On FreeBSD-current (then releng 12), trying to build synth led to system crash 
and reboot (unclean, I had to run fsck_ffs from NetBSD).

Synth did better on the other computer, suggesting FreeBSD may be allergic to 
the MSI MPOWER motherboard, or not fully compatible.

Tom

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Re: Portmaster failing

[Thomas Mueller]

> Unequally, actually. portmaster still has some developers putting in
> the hard work to keep it running. portupgrade hasn't had much focused
> development in many years and should probably be removed from the
> tree. There are some problems with building on a live system that
> portmaster can't ever truly alleviate, but it certainly works (when
> used by people experienced in handling fallout). portupgrade is just a
> system-mangling disaster waiting to happen.
 
> Adam Weinberger

I suppose what you say about portmaster applies equally to portupgrade? (from 
my previous post)

I am strongly advised to heed your advice on portupgrade.

It seemed to work fairly well, once upon a time, but even then it was necessary 
to run "pkgdb -F".

I looked in the FreeBSD Handbook online, found poudriere.

I even ran "make all-depends-list | more" from my FreeBSD installation, found 
surprisingly few dependencies, wish there were a good way to configure options 
without dialog4ports.

Still, dialog4ports was an improvement over the old dialog, which always messed 
my screen when I kept a log file. 

Speaking of system-mangling disaster, NetBSD pkgsrc with pkg_rolling-replace 
can do that, I am typing this on such a system. 

from Jan Beich:

> DragonFly has lang/gcc9-aux since 
> https://github.com/DragonFlyBSD/DeltaPorts/commit/bb774aced6d7
> Synth is still used to build binary packages on DragonFly e.g.,
> https://sting.dragonflybsd.org/dports/logs/lang___gcc9-aux.log

I looked on gitweb.dragonflybsd.org, found gcc9-aux, but no gcc7-aux or 
gcc8-aux, and no gccn-aux on dragonlace.net where n > 6.

DragonFly uses git for src and dports trees, in contrast to FreeBSD which uses 
svn, and NetBSD and OpenBSD which use cvs.

Possibly I could try to create my own gcc(7 or 8)-aux on FreeBSD or NetBSD, or 
cross-compile for Linux.  I would follow instructions on software.gnu.org or 
gcc.gnu.org .

Tom

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Re: Portmaster failing

[Thomas Mueller]

> This is why we practically beg people to use poudriere. There seems to
> be a pervasive misconception that poudriere is "advanced" and
> portmaster is simple or straightforward. That notion is completely and
> totally backwards. Poudriere makes managing ports as simple and
> trouble-free as possible, and portmaster is specifically for people
> who can troubleshoot and fix problems like the one you're describing
> on their own. These problems WILL continue to happen very regularly
> for portmaster, because portmaster simply cannot do the right thing on
> its own. It will ALWAYS require manual intervention every time
> anything remotely significant changes.

> I've mentioned this to you before, lbutlr, because you post about
> encountering these snags quite regularly, and your (quite warranted)
> frustration is apparent. I really do think that your FreeBSD life will
> be simpler if you switch from portmaster to poudriere. If you choose
> to stay on portmaster, however, then you need to check the resentment
> about build failures. They are simply an inevitable consequence of
> using a very old and broken tool that should only be used by people
> with substantial port-handling experience.

> You are right that there wasn't a warning, and that was a major
> mistake that should not have happened. security/openssl and
> security/openssl111 should have contained messages about this switch.


> Adam Weinberger

I suppose what you say about portmaster applies equally to portupgrade?

I get the impression that synth and its dependency gcc6-aux are falling into 
desuetude if not actually officially deprecated.

gcc6-aux has not been updated while gcc is up tp 8.3 and 9.2.

I have never used poudriere, guess I will have to learn how if I stay with 
FreeBSD.

NetBSD pkgsrc also has its problems: has been ported to many other mostly 
(quasi-)Unix OSes including FreeBSD, but I never tried pkgsrcc outside NetBSD, 
don't think I really want to.

DragonFlyBSD switched from pkgsrc to dports, and Haiku switched from pkgsrc to 
Haikuports.

Upgrading a large number of ports with portmaster usually required many runs, 
correcting the errors after each run, waiting for updates for broken ports.

Tom

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gcc(6)-aux falling behind?

[Thomas Mueller]

I notice gcc advancing to 7.4, 8.3 and 9.2 while gcc-aux has not gone above v6.

I believe this is the only Ada compiler for FreeBSD and NetBSD.

Would it be possible to build a gcc that includes Ada using gcc6-aux on the 
source code for gcc 7.4 or 8.3?

Fact that it hasn't been done suggests there might be a reason why.

I had even thought about the possibility of using gcc6-aux or gcc5-aux to 
cross-compile a gcc for Linux.

Tom

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Re: Synth and gcc-aux status?

[Thomas Mueller]

On 26/08/2019 12:57 pm, Thomas Mueller wrote:
> What is the current status of synth with FreeBSD ports, and I could also ask 
> about gcc-aux.
   
> I see gcc-aux remains at v6 (gcc6-aux) while gcc is updated to 7.4.0 and 8.3, 
> and even 9.1.
   
> Is poudriere now the main tool for updating ports?

Kubilay Kocak responded:

> Poudriere has always been the main (FreeBSD) tool for QA and package building.

> Note: While poudriere has overlapping functionality with portmaster and
> portupgrade, in the sense that they all "build ports", poudriere was designed
> primarily as a "package builder", not as a local port/package installation
> tool, though it *can* be used that way.

> > What is the status of portmaster and portupgrade now?

> Both are maintained as far as I know. portmaster has FLAVOR support, I'm not
> sure about portupgrade re FLAVORS, though I do recall seeing reports of it not
> working in the not so distant past, so it may not.

Where does synth fit in, or is it falling into desuetude?  If synth is to have 
a viable future, gcc-aux will have to be updated to gcc7-aux or gcc8-aux, or 
simply (?) gcc with Ada support.

Synth was much faster and more efficient than portmaster but had the downside 
of not installing build-dependency packages even when wanted by the user.

I have never used poudriere but now think I might need to.

Tom

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Synth and gcc-aux status?

[Thomas Mueller]

What is the current status of synth with FreeBSD ports, and I could also ask 
about gcc-aux.

I see gcc-aux remains at v6 (gcc6-aux) while gcc is updated to 7.4.0 and 8.3, 
and even 9.1.

Is poudriere now the main tool for updating ports?

What is the status of portmaster and portupgrade now?


Tom

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Re: firefox or what?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Andrea Venturoli:

> While continuing this thread down the slope it got (with useless arguments on
> netiquette, release engineering, supposed NFS incompatibilities, etc...) is a
> nonsense, I think half the OP's original question still holds, i.e.: what
> viable browsers (other than FireFox) do we have available in the port
> collection?

> Some times ago, when PaleMoon was removed, I felt the need to find an
> alternative.
> Searching the www categories and excluding text-only browsers, still yields a
> lot of results.
> Some are too lightweight (read: they can't make "modern"
> useless-javascript-crap-infested sites work), some just crash... trying them
> all would be a huge task.

> So I hoped to collect experiences on this.

I was favorably impressed by Otter Browser, but have not been able to update 
because my FreeBSD installation, 11.1-STABLE, is too far behind for updating 
ports.

I can see Dillo and Netsurf are too lightweight, not up to the gymnastics 
required by modern crap-infested websites.

I would also like to try to build Midori again, a more modern version than 
0.5.11.

Tom

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Re: firefox

[Thomas Mueller]

bruce writes:

>  I used seamonkey for years without problems.  Now with seamonkey no
>  longer available I have tried firefox.  It crashes regularly and
>  isn't nearly as good as seamonkey.  When are you bringing seamonkey
>  back?

Robert Huff responded:

Short answer: probably never.
Longer answer:
1) it is (I believe) no longer developed/maintained upstream.
2) the port does not have a local maintainer.
3) it has a long list of security issues, which persisted for
months if not years.

I, too, will miss it.  But in the larger scheme of things this probably 
the path of wisdom.

(Now ... if you are volunteering to revive it, assume maintainership, 
and contribute patches - thankyouthankyouthankyou)

I went to www.seamonkey-project.org last night.  Seamonkey looked alive, but 
last update was over a year ago (July 27, 2019 as I best remember): 2.49.4 .

I looked in FreeBSD ports tree, which I track using svn: www/seamonkey was not 
there.

But www/seamonkey is still in (NetBSD) pkgsrc.

>From the Makefile, it looks like there is no maintainer:

DISTNAME=   seamonkey-${SM_VER}.source
PKGNAME=seamonkey-${SM_VER:S/b/beta/}
PKGREVISION=13
SM_VER= 2.49.4
CATEGORIES= www
MASTER_SITES=   ${MASTER_SITE_MOZILLA:=seamonkey/releases/${SM_VER}/source/}
EXTRACT_SUFX=   .tar.xz

MAINTAINER= pkgsrc-us...@netbsd.org
HOMEPAGE=   http://www.seamonkey-project.org/
COMMENT=Full-featured gecko-based browser

One suggestion from me is www/otter-browser, available in FreeBSD ports, NetBSD 
pkgsrc, Linux (various), and haikuports (for Haiku).

Tom

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Re: coreutils missing one component: (g)stat

[Thomas Mueller]

> > Now I see where GNU stat is, and it's not FreeBSD's fault that ptxdist 
> > configure script can't find things.  I made a symbolic link in nonroot 
> > ~/fb64/bin:
   
> > ln -s /usr/local/bin/gnustat gstat

> I'm not clear whether you're trying to construct a port, or just
> getting the software to build.

> If you're building a port, you can achieve that with:
> BINARY_ALIAS= gstat=gnustat

# Adam  


-  Adam Weinberger

I was just trying to get the software to build, or should I say configure.  
Ptxdist (www.ptxdist.org) has a difficult time finding things: may be buggy.

Can FreeBSD ports be updated on a system whose last update was in late July 
2017 (11.1-STABLE)?

I was able to build FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE and HEAD more recently (May 2019), but 
the installation was unstable and unable to connect to the internet.  But I 
still get efibootmgr.

Tom

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Re: coreutils missing one component: (g)stat

[Thomas Mueller]

from Kurt Jaeger and my previous post:

> > I noticed, trying to configure ptxdist under FreeBSD (ptxdist.org), that 
> > stat (gstat) was missing in sysutils/coreutils.

> > Configure script execution ended with

> > checking for GNU rm... /usr/local/bin/grm
> > checking for GNU rmdir... /usr/local/bin/grmdir
> > checking for GNU sort... /usr/local/bin/gsort
> > checking for GNU stat... configure: error: could not find GNU stat

> Because FreeBSD has its own gstat command (doing something different),
> the port has gnustat for GNU stat. So the configure script
> needs to check for gnustat, maybe this solves your problem?

Now I see where GNU stat is, and it's not FreeBSD's fault that ptxdist 
configure script can't find things.  I made a symbolic link in nonroot 
~/fb64/bin:

ln -s /usr/local/bin/gnustat gstat

That worked so far, but then ptxdist configure script failed on not finding GNU 
tar (in archivers as gtar, not sysutils/coreutils).  I didn't know I needed 
that!

Anyway, thanks for pointing out where GNU stat is.

Tom

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coreutils missing one component: (g)stat

[Thomas Mueller]

I noticed, trying to configure ptxdist under FreeBSD (ptxdist.org), that stat 
(gstat) was missing in sysutils/coreutils.

Configure script execution ended with

checking for GNU rm... /usr/local/bin/grm
checking for GNU rmdir... /usr/local/bin/grmdir
checking for GNU sort... /usr/local/bin/gsort
checking for GNU stat... configure: error: could not find GNU stat

While I don't expect any FreeBSD list to support ptxdist (or buildroot, 
openwrt, crosstool-ng), I looked and noticed that gstat was included in 
sysutils/coreutils in (NetBSD) pkgsrc and sys-apps/coreutils in Haikuports.

Haikuports is modeled after Gentoo portage but is much smaller, is the 
package/ports system used with Haiku.

I don't know if ptxdist would have configured and installed with 
coreutils/gstat, very likely not, and I don't expect support here.

My purpose here is to point out something missing in a FreeBSD port.

Tom

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Re: RUN_DEPENDS and portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

Excerpt from STefan Esser:

> I have been using a portmaster-rewrite for many months, which is ready  
> for release except for some performance tuning. (The portmaster in ports
> is not un-maintainable, but it's hard to modify a monolithic 4000 line  
> shell script that uses global variables to pass state and recursive
> invocation of itself to provide local state when required.)

> The performance problems are caused by bad design of the FLAVOR feature,
> which ignored the requirements of tools like portmaster (I've written
> about this at length when FLAVOR support had been committed).

> Synth is a non-starter for me, since it is written in Ada and only
> available on i386/amd64. I have plans to implement the functionality
> of synth in portmaster (not really hard, since the complex parts are
> the logic that deals with moved ports and conflicts, while the actual
> port building is simple). Portmaster can already create packages
> without installing them (unless they are BUILD_DEPENDS of some later
> port, of course) and you can populate your local repository with
> portmaster.

> Different from poudriere or synth, portmaster adapts to the preferences
> of the user (and e.g. upgrades samba48 used by some port that specifies
> a dependency on samba46, if the system already has an outdated samba48
> installed).

> Portmaster will use what's available on a system and does allow selective
> upgrades (keeping some ports at a back-level on purpose, but still upgrade
> other ports that depend on them), while a poudirere/pkg based upgrade will
> typically require all dependencies to exactly match what was present at
> the time the package was built (in a clean environment, not resembling the
> system the packages are going to be installed on).

Why is Ada only available on i386/amd64?  I don't think gcc is so limited.  Or 
is it an idiosyncrasy of Dragonlace?

This discussion of portmaster prompts me to ask, what is the status of 
portupgrade?

I used portupgrade at first but subsequently switched to portmaster.

On this computer, synth crashes, sometimes making the system crash.  But I am 
in NetBSD as I type this.

Tom

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Re: portupgrade vs. portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

from Jonathan Chen and my previous post:

> On 30 April 2018 at 22:33, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:
[...]
> > I see hardly any mention of synth on the freebsd-ports list.  Have synth 
> > users become disenchanted?

> There are a growing number of synth users. They just don't appear on
> the list 'cause the software just works.

> > One downside is that synth fails to install build dependencies, so I have 
> > to pkg install all of these separately, very annoying.

> Why should build dependencies be installed? Their only purpose is for
> building the port.

But build dependencies happen to be build dependencies for something out of 
synth territory, like cross-compiling Haiku or Linux toolchains.

> > I was bitten just yesterday trying to build cross-compiling tools for Haiku 
> > when make info was missing because texinfo was built but not installed.

> > But I was able to recover with pkg install after checking my repository.

> > With portmaster, I need to specify ports by category/portname rather than 
> > just portname, for example
> > portmaster www/seamonkey

> > On my other computer, with MSI Z77 MPOWER motherboard, synth just fumbles 
> > and crashes.

> I would suspect you have hardware issues instead. synth builds tend to
> strain the machine - it's a good test of machine hardiness.

I might try to see if booting in UEFI mode might give better results.

Excerpt from Stefan Esser and my previous post:

> I do not know how much development is occurring for synth. It is written in a
> language that is only supported on amd64 (and i386?) and I'd rather use a tool
> that works on all platforms.

I believe Ada did not originate on i386 PCs, existed long before amd64.  There 
have been Ada compiler suites for i386 DOS and MS-Windows, and there is DJGPP 
for DOS.

But I see why you prefer something that can be ported to all FreeBSD-supported 
platforms.

> > One downside is that synth fails to install build dependencies, so I have 
> > to pkg install all of these separately, very annoying.

> Pure build dependencies should not be required on a system, outside the build
> process. If you need some compiler or build tool, then it is just a normal
> program selected by the user.

One benefit of FreeBSD and NetBSD, and some Linux versions, is package systems 
that build and install packages and dependencies from source.  So I am 
accustomed to haing dependencies pulled in rather than having to name every 
package.  Some packages, even when named, were built but not installed by synth.

There ought to be an option to install build dependencies for circumstances 
where that would be useful.

> > I was bitten just yesterday trying to build cross-compiling tools for Haiku 
> > when make info was missing because texinfo was built but not installed.

> This might be a problem with the specification of dependencies in the port.



Tom

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Re: portupgrade vs. portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

from STefan Esser:

> I used to be a portupgrade user, long ago (years before the introduction
> of the new package tools), but then mobed over to using portmaster.

> When the package system (PKG-NG) war completely reworked, I heard that
> portupgrade was better adapted to the new tools, but did not verify that
> claim (and instead submitted a few fixes for portmaster).

> I'm working on a complete rewrite on portmaster, since the original author
> has left the FreeBSD project, years ago, and I found it very hard to wrap
> my mind around his design when I implemented FLAVOR support in portmaster.

> My time is now spent on completing that new portmaster version, but I still
> fix problems reported in the current portmaster port (but will not implement
> any changes that are not bug-related, to be able to concentrate on the new
> version).

I'd like the opportunity to try out a new revamped portmaster, having fallen 
behind with my FreeBSD installations.

Current portmaster, even before FLAVORS, was clumsy upgrading a large number of 
ports, especially when there is an upgrade of perl or png.

I see hardly any mention of synth on the freebsd-ports list.  Have synth users 
become disenchanted?

One downside is that synth fails to install build dependencies, so I have to 
pkg install all of these separately, very annoying.

I was bitten just yesterday trying to build cross-compiling tools for Haiku 
when make info was missing because texinfo was built but not installed.

But I was able to recover with pkg install after checking my repository.

With portmaster, I need to specify ports by category/portname rather than just 
portname, for example
portmaster www/seamonkey

On my other computer, with MSI Z77 MPOWER motherboard, synth just fumbles and 
crashes.

Will both the old and revamped portmaster be maintained, and what will be the 
port names, since there can't be two ports both named portmaster?

I used portupgrade before switching to portmaster.

Tom

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Re: How do I recover a lost ports directory with svn?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Lowell Gilbert:

> That's fair. The help messages are enough for me to work out syntax
> without going back to first principles, but, yes, that's pretty much
> what I expect from a man page.

> > Personally, I would much prefer a real man page.

> Funny you should mention that. Some years back, I bashed out a script
> that turned the svn help into a browsable document. I can't find that
> tool in a quick search of my backups, and I don't even remember whether
> it converted things into HTML or info files. [As an emacs user, info is
> roughly equivalent to HTML for such things; I have no idea how info can
> be useful if you aren't using emacs to browse the docs.]

> But the point is that I found the cross-link information fairly easy to
> parse. And once you can do that, you can turn it into anything useful.

I wish GNU would switch away from info in favor of man or html!

When I ran Linux Slackware 13.0, Konqueror in KDE had a good info viewer.

Otherwise, there is misc/pinfo in ports.


Tom

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RE: Procmail Vulnerabilities check

[Thomas Mueller]

from Carmel NY:

> On Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:18 PM, RW wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:10:30 -0800, Kevin Oberman wrote:
> > > Strongly agree! Support ofr some basics like .forward is really a
> > > requirement. It is used for too many "normal" mail operations
> > > including private dropmail or procmail setups as well as forwarding to
> > > a smartmail system.

> > This is actually an argument for taking sendmail out of the base system.
> > If you need to install dropmail or procmail as a package you might just as 
> > well
> > install an MTA in the same way.

> IMHO, I think that "postfix" should be the base MTA. It is far easier to 
> configure, it is rock solid
> and the Postfix forum and documentation are superb. Plus, Dovecot integrates 
> with it seamlessly.

NetBSD did that some time ago (made postfix the default MTA).

If sendmail is dropped from FreeBSD base, FreeBSD users who want sendmail can 
install from ports and get the real thing instead of a reduced version.

Yes, my /etc/src.conf includes the line

WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=yes

Tom

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Re: The ports@ list is now subscriber-post only

[Thomas Mueller]

> The po...@freebsd.org (aka freebsd-ports@) mailing list now requires you to
> subscribe to the list before posting. This brings us two important benefits:

> * This should cut back tremendously on spam coming through the list.

> * Users are more likely to find better answers to their questions: The first
> three times a question is asked, it gets detailed replies. The fourth through
> nth times usually get a one sentence reply.

> This ONLY affects sending messages to the list. It does NOT affect:
> - Receiving messages or replies
> - Viewing the archives (https://www.freebsd.org/community/mailinglists.html)
> - Searching the archives

> If you have any questions about this, don't hesitate to ask!

# Adam


> Adam Weinberger

Why only the freebsd-ports mailing list and no others? 

Other FreeBSD mailing lists get spam, and I thought freebsd-questions was the 
biggest target for spam.

NetBSD mailing lista are also spam targets.

Tom

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Re: Working on FLAVOR support in portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 05.12.2017 08:35, Stefan Esser wrote:
> > Am 05.12.17 um 00:43 schrieb Tatsuki Makino:
> > > By the way, where is the clever way to update to flavor?
> > > I am using portmaster.

> > I'm working on FLAVOR support in portmaster. My version did already build
> > all updated ports, the FLAVOR parameter is passed to build sub-processes,
> > but there is still some confusion between multiple flavored versions of the
> > same port (installing the py27 version wants to deinstall the py36 version
> > and vice versa), which I still have to fix.

> Great news. I was starting today and just read your email. Lucky me :D

> > My work version has all non PKG_NG support stripped, but that is mainly to
> > not waste effort fixing irrelevant sub-routines.

> > Is it acceptable, to have portmaster stop supporting the old package system?
> > AFAIK, there is no way that a modern ports tree with flavor support works
> > with a non-PKG_NG infrastructure?

> This was something i aimed for in portmaster 2 since many changes were very
> subtle and there is no test-suite.

> But if there are some volunteers to test, i'm fine with it right now.

> Greetings,
> Torsten

As far as I know, no supported version of FreeBSD supports the old pkg_* tools, 
it's all pkgng.

So I can't see any need for portmaster to support the pre-pkgng infrastructure.

Tom

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Re: Welcome flavors! portmaster now dead? synth?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Chris H:

> port-mgmt/poudriere gets the attention, and maintenance that it does, because
> it was created, and is maintained by someone with a commit bit (bdrewery).
> port-mgmt/synth was also created, and maintained by someone with a commit bit
> (jmarino).
> However, John's commit bit was taken away. While I'll not comment as to why,
> nor elaborate on my personal stand/feelings regarding that action. I can say
> that he has superseded synth with an application called Ravenports[1].
> I also attempted to take on ports-mgmt/portmaster early on in my endeavors
> as a ports maintainer. However, that experience also didn't go well, and I'll
> not bog this thread down with the details. My main intent for my reply, is
> simply to indicate as to why history has been the way it has regarding the
> other ports management utilities, and to indicate there is another possible
> solution, that was not previously mentioned. That I thought you (and others?)
> might be interested in. :)
 
> [1]
> https://github.com/jrmarino/Ravenports
> https://github.com/jrmarino/ravenadm
> https://github.com/jrmarino/ravensource

I was curious enough to take a look at those Github pages.

Still too early for me to judge.

I see the supported target systems are very limited, but there is a limit to 
what one person alone can do.

I believe portmaster and portupgrade work or worked on all supported versions 
and architectures of FreeBSD, but synth is limited.

Does poudriere work on all supported versions and architectures of FreeBSD?  I 
looked in the Makefile and found no such limitation.

I can still see possible use for portmaster in that something has to be used to 
build synth or poudriere from source.


Tom

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Re: Welcome flavors! portmaster now dead? synth?

[Thomas Mueller]

Sorry to be sending this again, but I forgot to update the subject line the 
first time.

from Baho Utot:

> I don't use HEAD.  I use Quartlery with synth.  It is just I expect a little
> more than amature hour.  I was on Archlinux for 10 years and they are very
> bleeding edge.  Almost No breakage in ten years. The only reason I left Linux
> was systemd.  After landing in FreeBSD the experence has been terrible at
> best, I have been a user for more than 5 years hoping that things would get
> better after seeing all the work promised not getting done.  I am done with
> FreeBSD and I am going to my own scratch built Linux.  I already have all my
> raspberry pi on my own linux version and now I am working on moving my
> desktops.  Should be complete by the end of the year.

I never got started with Archlinux because of their mailing lists' severe 
moderation policy.  I became an infant mortality.

I asked how and if it was possible to rebuild the Archlinux system from source 
as is done with FreeBSD and NetBSD, but that message was rejected by moderator, 
explanation being that I could find the answer in one minute, or was it ten 
minutes, from the wiki.  I still haven't found it.  I unsubscribed about two 
days later.

I suppose you're aware of Linux From Scratch and Cross Linux From Scratch 
(trac.clfs.org)?

Two distros you could try are Voidlinux (voidlinux.eu) and Gentoo 
(www.gentoo.org).

I have git-cloned their source/package trees.

I would like to get back to Linux but am not ready to give up on FreeBSD.

Tom

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Re: Status of portupgrade and portmaster?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Baho Utot:

> I don't use HEAD.  I use Quartlery with synth.  It is just I expect a little
> more than amature hour.  I was on Archlinux for 10 years and they are very
> bleeding edge.  Almost No breakage in ten years. The only reason I left Linux
> was systemd.  After landing in FreeBSD the experence has been terrible at
> best, I have been a user for more than 5 years hoping that things would get
> better after seeing all the work promised not getting done.  I am done with
> FreeBSD and I am going to my own scratch built Linux.  I already have all my
> raspberry pi on my own linux version and now I am working on moving my
> desktops.  Should be complete by the end of the year.

I never got started with Archlinux because of their mailing lists' severe 
moderation policy.  I became an infant mortality.

I asked how and if it was possible to rebuild the Archlinux system from source 
as is done with FreeBSD and NetBSD, but that message was rejected by moderator, 
explanation being that I could find the answer in one minute, or was it ten 
minutes, from the wiki.  I still haven't found it.  I unsubscribed about two 
days later.

I suppose you're aware of Linux From Scratch and Cross Linux From Scratch 
(trac.clfs.org)?

Two distros you could try are Voidlinux (voidlinux.eu) and Gentoo 
(www.gentoo.org).

I have git-cloned their source/package trees.

I would like to get back to Linux but am not ready to give up on FreeBSD.

Tom

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Re: Regarding building corosync 2.4.3 on FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE

[Thomas Mueller]

from Jaspal Kaur:

> I am trying to build corosync 2.4.3 on FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE. I am able to 
> build its below dependencies:
...

The first thing to do is update FreeBSD, since 8.4 is long past end-of-life.  
Oldest supported version is 10.4, better to install FreeBSD 11.1 or STABLE, or 
HEAD.

If updating from source, it may require several stages, since I don't think you 
can directly upgrade from 8.4 to 11.x or HEAD.

Ports framework does not support past-EOL versions of FreeBSD.

Tom

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Re: Spam on -ports

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 26 Oct, 2017, at 14:50, Dave Horsfall  wrote:

> Is it official FreeBSD policy to allow spammers free reign on this list, or 
> is the list owner merely incompetent?

I believe spam is filtered by software, a spam-suspicious message is sent to 
the moderator. 

Spam filters should not filter out good messages, thus some spam gets through.

But freebsd-questions seems to get the most spam of all FreeBSD emailing lists, 
much more than freebsd-ports..

Tom

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Re: Status of portupgrade and portmaster?

[Thomas Mueller]

from abi:

> > What sort of port options can portmaster support better than synth?
> 1. When port doesn't have options cached portmaster invokes dialog4ports
> (poudriere can't do it in proper way, synth doesn't do it at all)
> 2. When options become outdated portmaster invokes dialog4ports
> 3. portmaster gives me summary what it would like to do
> 4. portmaster shows why it wants to build port A - it gives me dependency
> chain. For example I spent 2 hours trying to figure what's going on with
> poudriere (it pulls TEST dependencies - why?)

> So, I'd say we have only 1 tool designed for end user.

Downside of dialog4ports is burying options in a tree under /var/db/ports not 
intended for direct modification by user.

I much prefer direct non-dialog editing of options, such as is done in pkgsrc 
and Gentoo portage.

I recently got into a circular-dependency mess using "make config-recursive" 
multiple times on each port.

I had to delete /var/db/ports/* but keep empty /var/db/ports and put the 
options in
/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

But I could still be screwed when options become outdated or new options arise.

Tom

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Re: Status of portupgrade and portmaster?

[Thomas Mueller]

> John did state that he would continue to support synth. I can't say if he
> has continued to make contributions. In any case, only poudriere is
> available for maintaining ports in HEAD and I, for one, feel that it is
> simply unacceptable as it make FreeBSD unusable for those of us with only
> "small" systems where the weight poudriere simply can't be justified. (I
> have no system with other than SATA disk drives and, for my current needs,
> 1 TB of SATA on my development system and .5TB on my production system is
> adequate. Both systems are physically constrained in expansion capability,
> though otherwise easily meet my requirements.

> As a result, I am no longer able to track HEAD and, if the issue is not
> resolved in some manner before 11 support ends, will be forced to move from
> FreeBSD after an using it for over 2 decades. I certainly hope that this is
> not what happens.

> Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer

I keep svn-updating 11-STABLE and HEAD, but the ino64 issue with some ports 
including gcc(5,6)-aux holds me back from activity on HEAD.

But conceivably there could be a fix in the future.

I also keep cvs-updating NetBSD-HEAD and pkgsrc.

On FreeBSD, I am also miffed by the lack of support for my Realtek 8111E/8168 
chip on MSI Z77 MPOWER motherboard, especially after that Ethernet worked for a 
time, and still does for Linux (System Rescue CD) and NetBSD.

Synth and pkgng in pkgsrc seem to be falling into desuetude; gcc6-aux is broken 
for NetBSD (stated in the Makefile).

I wonder also about the status of synth and possibly poudriere on DragonFlyBSD, 
idly curious in that I am more favorably impressed by Linux or Haiku, compared 
to DragonFlyBSD.

Tom

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Re: Status of portupgrade and portmaster?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Chris H:

> FWIW I loved portmaster, but quickly found that by choosing it, I was
> *instantly* at odds with a large majority of the FreeBSD crowd.
> Eventually, I experimented with other choices, and finally landed on
> ports-mgmt/synth, and never looked back. Like Carmel, I found some aspects
> un-intuitive. But after figuring them out. I was hooked. John Marino did
> a wonderful job on this, and is very helpful.

On one computer (motherboard MSI Z68MA-ED55(B3)), synth works great, as long as 
I avoid the options dialog and put the options in 
/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

But there is the annoyance that many useful dependencies are not installed 
unless I type the command to install those already-built packages.

On the other computer, motherboard MSI Z77 MPOWER, same FreeBSD version, 
11.1-STABLE, synth fails most of the time and usually crashes.

I believe John Marino is unfortunately banished from FreeBSD but might still be 
active with DragonFlyBSD.

from Matt Smith:

> I agree. Portmaster was useful for many years but these days it is being left
> behind. The expectation is that ports are built in a clean room environment
> and portmaster does not provide that. I used synth for several months and it
> is a great tool. It works fine, but my problem with it is that the developer
> was forced out of FreeBSD and it needs an ada compiler.

> I think on FreeBSD 12 the ada compiler is broken isn’t it? Meaning synth 
> will
> break. For this reason I switched to poudriere and that works fine for me. As
> that is the tool used by the pkg builders themselves I know it will work.

> For example we are shortly getting flavors support in the ports tree. I think
> the author of synth has already said he is not going to support this whereas
> poudriere will straight away.

Building synth requires gcc6-aux, but gcc5-aux and gcc6-aux would not build 
following the introduction of ino64.

I don't know if that has been fixed.

John Marino attempted to port synth to NetBSD with pkgsrc, but last time I 
looked, gcc6-aux is broken on NetBSD, Makefile says so.

Tom

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Status of portupgrade and portmaster?

[Thomas Mueller]

Excerpt from Jan Beich:

> Why did portupgrade skip rebuilding print/harfbuzz-icu before building
> editors/libreoffice? The dependency trees of most desktop applications
> are so complex that the build falls apart if the upgrade tools aren't
> robust enough e.g., ignore MOVED or PORTREVISION bumps.
 
> In short, this is a reminder portmaster/portupgrade are NOT supported.
> Users are on their own debugging such issues.

What is the current status of portupgrade and portmaster?

I haven't used portupgrade in some time, but what about portmaster?

What is one officially supposed to use to build and upgrade packages from 
source?

Synth, poudriere, any others?

Tom

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Re: synth install ... builds but does not always install named packages

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 16 September 2017 at 09:01, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:
> > Some of the packages not installed are widespread build dependencies, such 
> > as nasm, and are better installed than rebuilt or temporarily reinstalled 
> > every time.

> synth doesn't rebuild build-dependencies if it isn't required. It
> stores the dependancies as a packages in the local package repository
> and unpacks it for each build. In fact, there is no need to install
> build dependancies on your local system, as it will *never* get used
> by synth, as synth uses a clean chroot'd environment for all its
> builds.

> [...]
> > And then it was irritating when some specifically named packages were not 
> > installed (math/gnumeric, editors/abiword-docs, mail/metamail, for 
> > instance).

> I would check:
>  1. did the packages get built, and are present in the local package 
> repository.
>  2. what sort of error messages you are getting from just a "pkg
> install ${package}" from the local package repo.

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen <j...@chen.org.nz>


Those packages that were built but not installed appeared in 
/var/synth/live-packages/All , otherwise I would not have complained about 
failure to install.

I didn't "pkg install ${package}" from local package repo, I installed some by 
rerunning "synth install category/package" (using actual category/package 
names).

I see also that graphics/epdfview built but didn't install, don't remember if I 
named this port, but would like to install it now.  Maybe also graphics/evince.

I still want to install build dependencies, or at least some of them, to be 
able to cross-compile Haiku and Linux toolchains (such as buildroot, OpenWRT, 
crosstool-ng, Pengutronix ptxdist and Cross Linux Fom Scratch).

Their advice about host build system requirements guides me on what I need to 
be installed, since this is out of synth territory, out of FreeBSD ports 
territory.

Tom

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Re: synth install ... builds but does not always install named packages

[Thomas Mueller]

> > Synth runs faster and more gracefully than portmaster, but portmaster 
> > installed everything that it built.

> Yes. That's the point. Build-only dependencies don't get installed via synth 
> or poudriere. Portmaster doesn't do clean builds, so it pollutes your system 
> by installing everything.

> You can install everything, though for the life of me I can't imagine why 
> you'd want to, by:

> pkg install -g '*'

# Adam


> Adam Weinberger

Running "pkg install -g '*'" might install some outdated packages, so I'd want 
to look through.  There could even be some conflicts.

Some of the packages not installed are widespread buil;d dependencies, such as 
nasm, and are better installed than rebuilt or temporarily reinstalled every 
time.

I dont think it would be possible to install everything created by a run of 
"synth everything" because of conflicts.  Anyway, that would be overkill.

I don't want to be caught short on build prerequisites for future package 
builds, or cross-compiling Haiku or Linux toolchains.

Some of the build dependencies not installed seem rather basic to a development 
system, such as nasm and bison, and are rather standard in Linux distributions.

And then it was irritating when some specifically named packages were not 
installed (math/gnumeric, editors/abiword-docs, mail/metamail, for instance).

Tom

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Re: synth install ... builds but does not always install named packages

[Thomas Mueller]

> On Sep 15 07:34, Thomas Mueller wrote:

> I am building up a system (FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE amd64) using synth, but even 
> when the packages build and appear in /var/synth/live_packages/All , some of 
> the packages don't install.

> When I type "which gnumeric", "which bison", "which abiword", I just get a 
> blank, and the executable files don't appear in /usr/local/bin .

> This happened with math/gnumeric, editors/abiword-docs, among others.

> I subsequently installed those packages by typing "synth install 
> math/gnumeric" and "synth install editors/abiword-docs", but how do I find 
> all the others that built and are listed in /var/synth/live_packages/All but 
> did not install?

> I see 

> "ls -l /var/synth/live_packages/All" has 657 lines, while

> "pkg info -a" produces 544 lines.

> I piped to "more", then hit G to go to the end, then Ctrl-G, which showed the 
> number of lines.

> This may not tell the whole story, but makes me believe there is a disparity, 
> and ask how to find and install those packages that built but didn't install.

> Has anybody else been stung by this bug?

Matt Smith responded:

> Do you actually want those packages installed? The usual reason is that 
> they are build dependencies only required for building another package 
> and therefore they are in the repo but not installed. If they are run 
> dependencies actually required for another package to run then they 
> should be installed.

> Freshports is a good site for looking at this.  
> http://www.freshports.org/

> If you search for something it tells you what is build and what is run.  
> Alternatively you can look at the ports Makefile for lines such as 
> BUILD_DEPENDS, RUN_DEPENDS, LIB_DEPENDS etc.

In some cases, the named packages failed to install the first time 
(math/gnumeric and editors/abiword), and in other cases desired dependencies 
didn't install (devel/nasm and sysutils/coreutils, for instance).

I need some of those build dependencies for other things like, for instance, 
cross-compiling Haiku and cross-compiling Linux toolchains, or other FreeBSD 
ports.

Is there anything I can specify to install those build dependencies, and how do 
I go through /var/synth/live-packages/All and pkg info -a to install those 
packages that failed to install without missing something?

Synth runs faster and more gracefully than portmaster, but portmaster installed 
everything that it built.

Tom

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synth install ... builds but does not always install named packages

[Thomas Mueller]

I am building up a system (FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE amd64) using synth, but even 
when the packages build and appear in /var/synth/live_packages/All , some of 
the packages don't install.

When I type "which gnumeric", "which bison", "which abiword", I just get a 
blank, and the executable files don't appear in /usr/local/bin .

This happened with math/gnumeric, editors/abiword-docs, among others.

I subsequently installed those packages by typing "synth install math/gnumeric" 
and "synth install editors/abiword-docs", but how do I find all the others that 
built and are listed in /var/synth/live_packages/All but did not install?

I see 

"ls -l /var/synth/live_packages/All" has 657 lines, while

"pkg info -a" produces 544 lines.

I piped to "more", then hit G to go to the end, then Ctrl-G, which showed the 
number of lines.

This may not tell the whole story, but makes me believe there is a disparity, 
and ask how to find and install those packages that built but didn't install.

Has anybody else been stung by this bug?

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 31 August 2017 at 17:59, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:
> > Now I've been busy, selecting port options to include in
> > /usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

> > but when I run "synth status gnumeric", I get

> > Configuration invalid: [D] Port options directory: /var/db/ports

> > so without a directory like /var/db/ports showing options derived from the 
> > ports dialog, synth seems not to work.

> The directory *must* be there, but it can be empty.

> > Is there any dialog-free way to use synth?

> Yup, I'm using it with the LiveSystem-make.conf.

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen <j...@chen.org.nz>

I tried setting the port options directory to 
/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf, but I guess that was not good enough.

Maybe it had to be a directory, not a file?

I will try again when I get back into that installation.

I also wonder about the future of synth with John Marino banished from FreeBSD, 
don't want to go to DragonFlyBSD because of incompatibility problems not 
relating to dports.

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

Now I've been busy, selecting port options to include in 
/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

but when I run "synth status gnumeric", I get

Configuration invalid: [D] Port options directory: /var/db/ports

so without a directory like /var/db/ports showing options derived from the 
ports dialog, synth seems not to work.

Is there any dialog-free way to use synth?

Synth has been ported to pkgsrc where there is no dialog, so maybe there is a 
way?

Or maybe synth does not run with pkgsrc?  Synth seems to be falling into 
desuetude there.

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

> > Does synth look for options in /etc/make.conf, or only in 
> > /usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf ?

> synth doesn't look at /etc/make.conf. When it is building, it uses the
> options from /usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf.

> > From "man synth"
>
> >  Port options directoryThis is the directory where all the selected
> >options for ports are cached.  The initial
> >value comes from a system scan, so chances 
> > are
> >it has the correct value. However, if the 
> > user
> >would like a separate configuration area for
> >port options, they would create the new 
> > direc-
> >tory and set this value accordingly (but the
> >user would have to ensure the new location is
> >passed to the port when configuring port
> >options later in that case).
>
> > Do the options have to be in /var/db/ports format, which I want to avoid at 
> > all cost?  Or is the LiveSystem-make.conf and /etc/make.conf good enough?

> synth will inspect the specified ports-options directory for options
> in /var/db/ports format. This allows new users to immediately use
> synth without having to configure anything.

> > Just to see what would happen, I don't think I need to run "synth 
> > upgrade-system".  "synth status" might be good enough.

> Yup, you're right.

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen <j...@chen.org.nz>

So I should put the options in /usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf .  I 
could also put options in /etc/make.conf just in case I build something with 
other than synth ("make install clean").

I guess I'll get the chance to see what happens when the port options directory 
is not there.  Hopefully it won't find /var/db/ports2 if I don't tell it.

from Don Lewis:

> On 23 Aug, Thomas Mueller wrote:

> > But it seems more cumbersome with "make PORT_DBDIR=... showconfig"
> > than with "make show-options" and "make show depends-options" in
> > NetBSD with pkgsrc.  Or maybe I'm spoiled?

> PORT_DBDIR= only needs to be specified if you want to point to somewhere
> other than the default location.  Otherwise just "make showconfig" will
> suffice.

I tried 
make PORT_DBDIR=(nonexistent directory) showconfig
and it worked.

Maybe it acted based on default options?

I could try 

make PORT_DBDIR=(real or nonexistent directory) showconfig-recursive |& tee 
showconfigrecursive.log (or maybe a shorter name)  

comparable to

make show-depends-options 2>&1 | tee optionsdep.log  in NetBSD with pkgsrc

I really need the options to have better visibility than /var/db/ports offers.


Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

> > I can run "synth status ..." on desired packages to see before running if 
> > the options are compatible.

> My 2 cents worth: the port maintainers usually do a good job of
> choosing sensible default options. I would just move everything out of
> /var/db/ports/ and see what a "synth upgrade-system" comes back with.
> My LiveSystem-make.conf only contains a handful of lines where I
> disagree with the port maintainers' choices.

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen 

I could start from scratch on the options but not deleting packages already 
installed.

But it seems more cumbersome with "make PORT_DBDIR=... showconfig" than with 
"make show-options" and "make show depends-options" in NetBSD with pkgsrc.  Or 
maybe I'm spoiled?

Does synth look for options in /etc/make.conf, or only in 
/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf ?

>From "man synth"

 Port options directoryThis is the directory where all the selected
   options for ports are cached.  The initial
   value comes from a system scan, so chances are
   it has the correct value. However, if the user
   would like a separate configuration area for
   port options, they would create the new direc-
   tory and set this value accordingly (but the
   user would have to ensure the new location is
   passed to the port when configuring port
   options later in that case).

Do the options have to be in /var/db/ports format, which I want to avoid at all 
cost?  Or is the LiveSystem-make.conf and /etc/make.conf good enough?

Just to see what would happen, I don't think I need to run "synth 
upgrade-system".  "synth status" might be good enough.

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

from Don Lewis:

> When I switched from portupgrade to poudriere, I used the attached
> script to find the non-default option settings in /var/db/ports.


> [-- Attachment #2: portoptions --]
> [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 1.4K --]
> Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name=portoptions
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=portoptions

> #!/bin/sh
> PORTSDIR=/usr/ports
(snip)

Thanks for the script, I assume I can modify PORTSDIR line as needed.

No need to quote all, especially with "> " prepended to each line.

I can try the script or start over from the beginning given the mess I got into.

But the complexity of the script convinces me further of how dialog-free 
systems (pkgsrc, Gentoo portage for instance) are better.

But I was going strong with synth, and that might encourage me to continue to 
make that installation more fully functional.

I can run "synth status ..." on desired packages to see before running if the 
options are compatible.

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

from Jonathan Chen:

> On 22 August 2017 at 18:34, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:
[...]
> > I believe Synth and poudriere have no means for setting options.  That 
> > should be enough impetus to make it easier to bypass the dialog4ports 
> > entirely.

> >From the synth man page:
>  -make.conf
>This is an optional, user-provided file. If it exists,
>the builder's /etc/make.conf will be appended with the
>contents of this file. For the default profile, the
>file would normally be located at
>/usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

> All you need to do is to convert your /var/db/ports/* options into
> make.conf style options and put it into LiveSystem-make.conf.

> Works for me.

At this stage, I think I don't want to ever again see a dialog4ports!

How do I convert /var/db/ports/* options into make.conf-style options in a 
reasonable amount of time?

I don't (yet) have a LiveSystem-make.conf apart from /etc/make.conf, but I have 
/usr/local/etc/synth/synth.ini

I see (running "less" on this file)

[Global Configuration]


[LiveSystem]

Directory_packages= /var/synth/live_packages
Directory_repository= /var/synth/live_packages/All
Directory_portsdir= /BETA1/usr/ports
Directory_options= /var/db/ports
Directory_distfiles= /BETA1/usr/ports/distfiles
Directory_buildbase= /usr/obj/synth-live
Directory_logs= /var/log/synth
Directory_ccache= disabled
Directory_system= /
Number_of_builders= 6
Max_jobs_per_builder= 4
Tmpfs_workdir= true
Tmpfs_localbase= true
Display_with_ncurses= true
leverage_prebuilt= false

occurring four times, the latter three being verbatim repeats of the first.

Now I want to get rid of the Directory_options line, should I delete the line 
or should I change "/var/db/ports" to "/dev/null"?  Or just move /var/db/ports 
to /var/db/ports2, which I intend to do anyway?

What if synth finds /var/db/ports no longer there?

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

from RW via freebsd-ports:

> Thomas Mueller wrote:


> > It was very disconcerting when I would do a massive portupgrade
> > before going to bed and subsequently find portupgrade stopped for an
> > options dialog.

> FWIW portupgrade has a -c option to avoid that.

I remember that back from the days when I used portupgrade, and ports system 
used the old dialog.

I wish NetBSD and pkgsrc would port portmaster and/or portupgrade.

Synth and pkgng seem to have fallen into desuetude in pkgsrc. 

Synth won't build on NetBSD because gcc6-aux is broken (Makefile says so), and 
I failed in an attempt to build pkg on NetBSD, but good on FreeBSD ports.

from Don Lewis and my previous post:

> > What is the priority when /var/db/ports is present, which takes
> > precedence?  Should I delete /var/db/ports or /var/db/ports/* ?

> I suspect that /var/db/ports takes priority of options are set in both
> places.  I'd delete it if you move your option settings to make.conf.

> > The ports dialog prior to dialog4ports would always mess the screen
> > whenever I made a log file with tee (just as bad with script).
> > Dialog4ports avoided messing the screen.
>
> > It was very disconcerting when I would do a massive portupgrade before
> > going to bed and subsequently find portupgrade stopped for an options
> > dialog.
 
> I always ran "portupgrade -aFc" beforehand to set the options and also
> fetch all the distfiles.  Some of the ports that I built had distfiles
> that needed to be manually fetched and a fetch failure during the night
> could also be devastating.  Even then there was one port that had its
> own dialog (procmail?) that would sometimes wedge an overnight
> portupgrade run.
 
> > I believe Synth and poudriere have no means for setting options.  That
> > should be enough impetus to make it easier to bypass the dialog4ports
> > entirely.

> The poudriere testport -c option runs make config to pop up the options
> dialog.  It's handy for testing the port's options when doing
> development.  The options settings aren't sticky, though.

> > (NetBSD) pkgsrc has a file options.mk in each package entry where
> > there are options.  One can run "make show-options" and "make
> > show-depends-options" to see options for main package and
> > dependencies.  I like it better than "make showconfig-recursive".
>
> > Now for FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE installation, I will have to redo the
> > options into OPTIONS_SET, etc, and either delete /var/db/ports (a
> > horrible mess now, so nothing to lose) or move it out of the way.
>
> > Another advantage of putting options in make.conf or mk.conf is that
> > the file can be copied or edited from another FreeBSD or NetBSD
> > installation.

> Well, you could copy /var/db/ports over, but ...

If I want to partially convert options from /var/db/ports but keep out of 
harm's way, I could move it to /var/db/ports2 for reference.

Then I could 
make PORT_DBDIR=/var/db/ports2 showconfig-recursive
or from another installation, mounting on /media/zip0,
make PORT_DBDIR=/media/zip0/var/db/ports2 showconfig-recursive

Or I could look directly in /var/db/ports2 files (cumbersome), that would even 
work from NetBSD.

I no longer use traditional BSD disklabels, so, with GPT, FreeBSD and NetBSD 
can read and write each other's ffs/UFS partitions.

Tom

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Re: Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

from RW rwmaillists at googlemail.com
Mon Aug 21 15:28:49 UTC 2017:

> On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:19:24 +
> Thomas Mueller wrote:


> > But on this computer, no such system crashes, but I ran into circular
> > dependencies 

> Try removing any port options that aren't absolutely essential.

> > It seems the ports go overboard with an awful lot of dependencies, of
> > which not all install with the main port.  So I expect some of these
> > dependencies might be false dependencies.

> They are probably just build dependencies.

It is still disappointing to find devel/git or sysutils/coreutils were not 
installed.

Email from FreeBSD lists is slow coming to my inbox, so I am respoonding from 
the web interface to the emailing lists, and on the other computer, now running 
NetBSD.

I ran "make show-depends" on NetBSD with pkgsrc, dependencies are generally far 
less/fewer than on FreeBSD with ports.

But FreeBSD ports seems to go overboard now with dependencies, creating 
circular dependencies along the way.

I rebooted to an older FreeBSD installation (current/11 amd64 from January 
2016, no longer supported).

I went to /usr/ports/textproc/xmlto , ran "make all-depends-list", and one line 
that showed up was
/usr/ports/textproc/xmlto

depends on itself.

Otherwise, on newer system, I see circular dependencies running "make 
all-depends-list", finding textproc/xmlto depended on graphics/gd and vice 
versa.

It didn't seem broken back in January 2016, and I still use it for Seamonkey 
2.39 and other things.


Tom

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Synth and circular dependencies

[Thomas Mueller]

I am on a FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE amd64 system, building ports with synth, started 
off really strong.

On the other computer (motherboard MSI Z77 MPOWER), synth doesn't work well, 
can't build packages, crashes the system most of the time.

But on this computer, no such system crashes, but I ran into circular 
dependencies which seemed related to print/texlive ports.

Synth screen output was, on several runs


graphics/gd scan aborted because a circular dependency on graphics/gd was 
detected.
... backtrace print/texlive-base
... backtrace print/texlive-texmf
... backtrace print/tex-dvipsk
... backtrace textproc/dblatex
... backtrace textproc/xmlto
... backtrace graphics/giflib
... backtrace graphics/webp
... backtrace graphics/gd

textproc/docproj scan aborted because a circular dependency on graphics/gd was 
detected.
... backtrace print/texlive-base
... backtrace print/texlive-texmf
... backtrace print/tex-dvipsk
... backtrace textproc/dblatex
... backtrace textproc/xmlto
... backtrace graphics/giflib
... backtrace graphics/webp
... backtrace graphics/gd
... backtrace graphics/scr2png
... backtrace textproc/docproj

math/gnumeric scan aborted because a circular dependency on print/texlive-texmf 
was detected.
... backtrace print/tex-dvipsk
... backtrace textproc/dblatex
... backtrace textproc/xmlto
... backtrace graphics/giflib
... backtrace graphics/webp
... backtrace graphics/gd
... backtrace print/texlive-base
... backtrace print/texlive-texmf
... backtrace print/tex-formats
... backtrace print/tex-jadetex
... backtrace textproc/docbook-utils
... backtrace graphics/colord
... backtrace x11-toolkits/gtk30
... backtrace databases/libgda5-ui
... backtrace math/gnumeric

www/seamonkey-i18n scan aborted because a circular dependency on 
print/texlive-texmf was detected.
... backtrace print/tex-dvipsk
... backtrace textproc/dblatex
... backtrace textproc/xmlto
... backtrace graphics/giflib
... backtrace graphics/webp
... backtrace graphics/gd
... backtrace print/texlive-base
... backtrace print/texlive-texmf
... backtrace print/tex-formats
... backtrace print/tex-jadetex
... backtrace textproc/docbook-utils
... backtrace graphics/colord
... backtrace x11-toolkits/gtk30
... backtrace www/seamonkey
... backtrace www/seamonkey-i18n


Only web browser I built successfully was elinks; SeaMonkey, Firefox, Otter 
browser and Netsurf all failed on similar circular dependencies.

I think the fault is in the print/texlive ports rather than synth, but I could 
be wrong.  Abiword also failed on similar circular dependency.

I was successful building llvm40, Xorg, IceWM, jwm, i3 and ratpoison (four 
window managers) but haven't run them yet.

It seems the ports go overboard with an awful lot of dependencies, of which not 
all install with the main port.  So I expect some of these dependencies might 
be false dependencies.

Tom

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devel/git fails to install due to pkg-plist disparity

[Thomas Mueller]

Trying to install devel/git on FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE amd64 failed due to two 
files in pkg-plist not being found.

I checked the distfiles (tar tvf) and still didn't find the two files.

I was able to edit pkg-plist to remove the two offending lines, saving the 
official version as pkg-plist.orig.

Then I was successful installing devel/git 2.14.1.

What made me anxious was trying to cross-compile Haiku (haiku-os.org) from 
FreeBSD, and compilation apparently requires git to verify the tags.

This is a rather new installation (FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE), hance I had no 
previous installation of git. 

===>  Installing for git-2.14.1 


===>  Checking if git already installed 


===>   Registering installation for git-2.14.1  


pkg-static: Unable to access file 
/BETA1/usr/ports/devel/git/work11/stage/usr/local/share/doc/git/technical/api-hashmap.html:No
 such file or directory 
 
pkg-static: Unable to access file 
/BETA1/usr/ports/devel/git/work11/stage/usr/local/share/doc/git/technical/api-hashmap.txt:No
 such file or directory 
  
*** Error code 74  

Distfiles in question were

-rw-r--r--   1 root  wheel4791876 Aug 10 17:57 git-2.14.1.tar.xz


-rw-r--r--   1 root  wheel1115176 Aug 10 17:57 git-htmldocs-2.14.1.tar.xz   


-rw-r--r--   1 root  wheel 410400 Aug 10 17:58 git-manpages-2.14.1.tar.xz   
 

Tom

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misc/pinfo fails on not being to use ncurses

[Thomas Mueller]

Last night I attempted to build misc/pinfo on FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE amd64, but it 
found ncurses not usable for whatever reason.

I had something like that previously, about three years ago.

Should I include the whole config.log (87869 bytes)?

Briefly, error was

checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build static libraries... yes
configure: checking location of readline.h file...
Found readline on /usr/local/include/readline/readline.h
checking for readline version... 7
checking location of curses.h file... /usr/local/include/ncurses/ncurses.h
checking if curses is usable... no
configure: error: Curses not found. You need curses to compile pinfo
===>  Script "configure" failed unexpectedly.
Please report the problem to po...@freebsd.org [maintainer] and attach the
"/BETA1/usr/ports/misc/pinfo/work11/pinfo-0.6.10/config.log" including the
output of the failure of your make command. Also, it might be a good idea to
provide an overview of all packages installed on your system (e.g. a
/usr/local/sbin/pkg-static info -g -Ea).
*** Error code 1

Stop.


I could also ask what other info file viewers there are, better than the GNU 
info that was formerly part of FreeBSD base system.

When I was using Linux Slackware, Konqueror had a good info viewer, but I don't 
want to have to build and install KDE.

I didn't like Emacs' info viewer when I tried that years ago but haven't run 
Emacs recently.

Tom

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Re: How to get pkg to recognize local repository?

[Thomas Mueller]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:33:22 +
"Thomas Mueller" <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:

> I suppose priority 99 would take priority over priority 98?

> In normal English usage, first priority or priority one is higher
> than priority two.

> Do you need the comma after the closing brace after myfirstrepo?

> I suppose myfirst repo and mysecondrepo are both in the same .conf
> file?

Bob Eager responded:

> This isn't well (or, at least, transparently) documented. However, if
> you do 'man pkg.conf' and read down, it eventually tells you the syntax
> of a repo file.
 
> I've always put them one per file, with a name that reflects that repo.

"man pkg.conf" says individual repository configuration files are processed in 
alphabetical order.

But according to the man page, one configuration file can specify more than one 
repository.

I guess I'll need to do some trial and error, given the confusing nature of the 
documentation.

I still want to get rid of the old no-longer-usable packages.  All I can think 
of now is Midnight Commander (mc) from NetBSD.

There ought to be a convenient way to remove outdated packages from a repo,  Or 
maybe there is but not documented, or at least not clearly documented?

I also want to look at how NetBSD pkgsrc defines/configures a repo so as to 
compare to FreeBSD.

Tom

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Re: How to get pkg to recognize local repository?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Franco Fichtner:

# pkg repo /mnt/usr/packages

Would that put meta.txz and other stuff in /usr/packages ?

I could do that either by nfs (with /mnt) or directly on that computer (without 
/mnt).

But I have all the old stuff I no longer want, would not run because of shared 
libraries out of sync: 223 packages I didn't show.  How to delete? 

Or more generally, how to delete old packages in /usr/packages/All in a 
reasonable time?  Midnight Commander, which I recently installed on NetBSD but 
have not yet used?

> 17.07.2017 08:10, Thomas Mueller пишет:

> > How do I get pkg to recognize a local repository

> It is documented at PKG-REPOSITORY(5) .  [1]

> > What is the proper URL or format for a file name/directory?  Is it 
> > necessary to precede with URL: or what do I have to do to make it look like 
> > a repository?


> It is mentioned at [1]: the scheme is documented at FETCH(3) .


> HTH

> WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)

This looks like it might help, but PKG-REPOSITORY and FETCH have to be 
lower-case, won't work with capital letters.

Excerpt from Adam Weinberger:

> myfirstrepo: {
> url: file:///path/to/first/repo,
> priority: 99
> },
> mysecondrepo: {
> url: file:///path/to/second/repo,
> priority: 98
> }

I suppose priority 99 would take priority over priority 98?

In normal English usage, first priority or priority one is higher than priority 
two.

Do you need the comma after the closing brace after myfirstrepo?

I suppose myfirst repo and mysecondrepo are both in the same .conf file?


Tom

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Re: How to get pkg to recognize local repository?

[Thomas Mueller]

> > On 17. Jul 2017, at 7:10 AM, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:

> > pkg-static: Ignoring bad configuration entry in 
> > /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/mytemprepo.conf: "file:///mnt/usr/packages/All"
> > pkg-static: Warning: Major OS version upgrade detected.  Running 
> > "pkg-static install -f pkg" recommended
> > No active remote repositories configured.

> You want to point to file:///mnt/usr/packages instead, it should work given
> the repository meta files are in there.


> Cheers,
> Franco

What meta files?  There is a metamail-2.7_11.txz, but I don't think that's what 
you meant.

On the drive I was trying to install from, 
ls -l /mnt/usr/packages shows

total 12
drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel  7680 Jun 12 07:34 All
drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel   512 Jun 12 04:41 Latest

Latest just contains 

lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  21 Jun 12 04:41 pkg.txz -> ../All/pkg-1.10.1.txz

while ls -rtl /mnt/usr/packages/All shows no meta files.

ls -l /mnt/var/synth/live_packages shows

total 20
drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel   512 Jul  2 06:39 All
drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel   512 Jul  2 06:04 Latest
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   588 Jul  2 06:25 digests.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   264 Jul  2 06:25 meta.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1880 Jul  2 06:25 packagesite.txz

and
ls -l /mnt/var/synth/live_packages/All  shows

total 3200
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel98876 Jul  2 06:04 ccache-3.3.4_3.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 5312 Jul  2 06:04 indexinfo-0.2.6.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel16392 Jul  2 06:39 libsigsegv-2.11.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  2984472 Jul  2 06:04 pkg-1.10.1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel53000 Jul  2 06:39 pkgconf-1.3.7,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel42548 Jul  2 06:04 portmaster-3.17.10.txz

That is not all that is installed; "synth upgrade-system" only succeeded on a 
few packages before crashing (system crash and reboot, I tried a second time 
with same crash).

ls -rtl /mnt/usr/packages/All shows (not including old deleted packages):

-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   2985132 Jun 12 04:41 pkg-1.10.1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 42552 Jun 12 04:41 portmaster-3.17.10.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel616476 Jun 12 04:46 libiconv-1.14_10.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   504 Jun 12 05:08 gettext-0.19.8.1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 98916 Jun 12 06:02 ccache-3.3.4_3.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  5312 Jun 12 06:02 indexinfo-0.2.6.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel152516 Jun 12 06:02 gettext-runtime-0.19.8.1_1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   2329976 Jun 12 06:04 gettext-tools-0.19.8.1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel388288 Jun 12 06:04 gmake-4.2.1_1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 52988 Jun 12 06:04 pkgconf-1.3.7,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   1485748 Jun 12 06:05 ncurses-6.0_3.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 16372 Jun 12 06:05 libsigsegv-2.11.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1436 Jun 12 06:09 perl5-5.26.0.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 16844 Jun 12 06:09 p5-Locale-gettext-1.07.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel139420 Jun 12 06:10 help2man-1.47.4.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   1248316 Jun 12 06:10 texinfo-6.3_2,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel209540 Jun 12 06:11 m4-1.4.18,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel515372 Jun 12 06:11 bison-3.0.4,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel475256 Jun 12 06:13 gmp-6.1.2.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel371092 Jun 12 06:14 mpfr-3.1.5_1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  20079120 Jun 12 06:25 binutils-2.28,1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 75100 Jun 12 06:25 mpc-1.0.3.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  32102776 Jun 12 07:33 gcc6-aux-20170202_1.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel385796 Jun 12 07:34 adacurses-20150808_4.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel 21744 Jun 12 07:34 ini_file_manager-03_2.txz
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel666432 Jun 12 07:34 synth-1.69.txz

But how would I get those packages copied/installed and see if synth works 
better on the other computer?

from Matthias Apitz:

I use:

> $ ls -l /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/*.conf
> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  35 12 mar.  11:05 
> /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf
> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  96 12 mar.  11:05 
> /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/myrepo.conf
> $ cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf

> FreeBSD: { enabled: no }

> $ cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/myrepo.conf

> FreeBSD: {
> url: "file:///usr/local/PKGDIR.20170304",
> enabled: true,
}

> HIH

> matthias

What is /usr/local/PKGDIR.20170304 , how do you get a file by that name?  

ls -l /mnt/usr/local shows

total 104
drwxr-xr-x   2 root  wheel  16896 Jun 12 07:34 bin
drwxr-xr-x  10 root  wheel   1024 Jul  2 06:01 etc
drwxr-xr-x   6 root  wheel512 Jun 12 07:32 gcc6-aux
drwxr-xr-x   9 root  wheel   2560 Jun 12 07:34 include
drwxr-xr-x   2 root  wheel   1024 Jun 12 06:25 info
drwxr-xr-x  19 root  wheel  32256 Jun 12 07:34 lib
drwxr-xr-x   5 root 

How to get pkg to recognize local repository?

[Thomas Mueller]

How do I get pkg to recognize a local repository such as /mnt/usr/packages/All, 
or does pkg only recognize remote repositories?

In this case, /mnt was a mount point for another FreeBSD 11.1-PRERELEASE 
installation from the same svn revision.  Second was installed from the first 
using NFS.

Even env PACKAGEPATH=/mnt/usr/packages/All pkg-static install pkg  didn't work.

pkg-static: Ignoring bad configuration entry in 
/usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/mytemprepo.conf: "file:///mnt/usr/packages/All"
pkg-static: Warning: Major OS version upgrade detected.  Running "pkg-static 
install -f pkg" recommended
No active remote repositories configured.

What is the proper URL or format for a file name/directory?  Is it necessary to 
precede with URL: or what do I have to do to make it look like a repository?  I 
have been unable to get anything to work.

While it would be easier to just build the packages again, I would like to know 
how to install from one computer or installation to another without recompiling.

Tom

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Re: [RFC] Why FreeBSD ports should have branches by OS version

[Thomas Mueller]

from Mark Linimon:

> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 09:01:39PM +0000, Thomas Mueller wrote:
> > raising the possibility of building for other targets.

> Which is very much not hardly even the same as "they are being resistant
> to change".  In fact, about as far away from it as is possible to get.

> "techinically possible" != "feasible in the immediate future".

> I feel like I'm repeating myself in this thread, again.

> mcl

A lot of pkgsrc users, perheps the majority, use architecture either i386 or 
amd64 (I have no statistics).

FreeBSD also supports many architectures, not as many as NetBSD, but some where 
there is no Ada compiler, and no LLVM/clang either.

Some of the architectures supported by NetBSD are near-extinct now, acorn26 for 
one, and would not be prime targets for pkgsrc development, nobody is going to 
care about lack of an Ada compiler.

Tom

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Re: [RFC] Why FreeBSD ports should have branches by OS version

[Thomas Mueller]

from Mark Linimon:

> Remember that NetBSD runs on dozens of targets*, of which only two support
> Ada AFAIK.

> mcl

> * http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-7.1/

I follow http://releng.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/builds.cgi

which shows 72 targets for HEAD, 67 targets for netbsd-7 and netbsd-8, 60 
targets for netbsd-6.

Ada, developed by the US Department of Defense, was not originally for amd64 
and i386.

A large part of the problem is that building Ada requires a preexisting GNAT.

Full GCC suite includes Ada, and is capable of cross-compilation, raising the 
possibility of building for other targets.

I can not say with authority which targets would succeed.

Dragonlace.net shows a port for FreeBSD aarch64.

Tom

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Re: [RFC] Why FreeBSD ports should have branches by OS version

[Thomas Mueller]

from Dewayne Geraghty:

> Synth is very good.  It builds upon pkg and is way less complicated that
> poudriere.
 
> Unfortunately John Marino was unceremoniously removed from committing to
> FreeBSD, and its is uncertain whether he'll continue to support synth on
> FreeBSD.  (He supports DragonflyBSD.  :)

I remember reading about this falling-out.  Are others in FreeBSD ports taking 
over and continuing support and updates for synth?

Does John Marino still support NetBSD pkgsrc with synth?  It seems NetBSD 
pkgsrc people are not catching on, preferring to stay with the clumsy pkgsrc 
tools: creatures of habit, reluctant to change.

I tried the live/installation DragonFlyBSD USB-stick image, but it had 
problems: no Internet access, drivers missing or nonworking, and my last try 
didn't boot.  Also it couldn't (previous tries) mount any FreeBSD or NetBSD 
partition, and FreeBSD and NetBSD couldn't mount/read the DragonFlyBSD USB 
stick even with UFS as opposed to Hammer file system.

Tom

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Re: [RFC] Why FreeBSD ports should have branches by OS version

[Thomas Mueller]

> > I personally can't see the rationale of many OS version branches of ports: 
> > far too much work.

> > I had the thought of something like that for (NetBSD) pkgsrc: a very tall 
> > order, considering that pkgsrc has been ported to many OSes besides NetBSD.

> > Imagine a separate branch of pkgsrc for every version and branch of NetBSD, 
> > FreeBSD, Linux, etc.

> > I only follow the current branch of FreeBSD ports and pkgsrc, though now I 
> > have also become interested in pkgsrc-synth.

> Tom

> Are there any advantages of using pkg instead of pkgsrc on FreeBSD?

> Instead of having branches by OS version, would having ports LTS branches
> independent of the base system be a better solution?

> Grzegorz

It looks like you might have misunderstood something I said about pkgsrc.

I use pkg with FreeBSD ports on FreeBSD, but my interest in pkgsrc and 
pkgsrc-synth is for NetBSD.

Working with pkgsrc on NetBSD convinces me that they need to import portupgrade 
and/or portmaster from FreeBSD, maybe synth will be better?

Pkgsrc is awkward dealing with packages whose names have changes or branched.

Ports LTS branches, is that Long Term Service?  I don't really understand that 
question.

Tom

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Re: [RFC] Why FreeBSD ports should have branches by OS version

[Thomas Mueller]

from Vlad K:

> On 2017-06-23 23:09, Grzegorz Junka wrote:

> > Fine. Considering that maintainers already apply patches to the latest
> > quarterly branch. If there were to be OS version branches, it would
> > mean that maintainers apart from what they are doing now would
> > additionally need to apply selected patches to those OS version
> > branches?

> "OS version branches" would be a complete waste of time and resources, and it
> would remove some level of separation/independence between the base and ports.

> The crux of the problem here is so called "stable ports", not necessarily
> tying them to the life cycle of a base release. It doesn't make sense to tie
> version of a port to the base release. Especially with the new releng support
> schedule that would mean 5 years per major version which is quite a lot.
(snip)

I personally can't see the rationale of many OS version branches of ports: far 
too much work.

I had the thought of something like that for (NetBSD) pkgsrc: a very tall 
order, considering that pkgsrc has been ported to many OSes besides NetBSD.

Imagine a separate branch of pkgsrc for every version and branch of NetBSD, 
FreeBSD, Linux, etc.

I only follow the current branch of FreeBSD ports and pkgsrc, though now I have 
also become interested in pkgsrc-synth.

Tom

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Re: pkg convert?

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 19/06/2017 01:04, Thomas Mueller wrote:
> > Looking through the man page for pkg, I see there is still an entry for 
> > convert ("pkg help convert" or "man pkg-convert").

> DESCRIPTION
> >  pkg convert is used to convert from/to pkg(8) local database to legacy
> >  pkg_install tools format.

> OPTIONS
> >  The following options are supported by pkg convert:

> >  -d pkg_dbdir, --pkg-dbdir pkg_dbdir
> >  The location of the pkg_add(1) dbdir.  Defaults to /var/db/pkg.

> >  -n, --dry-run
> >  Dry-run mode.  Do not actually convert anything.  Just show 
> > what
> >  would be done.

> > What is this?  Looks obsolete to me, I thought the legacy pkg_install tools 
> > format was long gone with no going back.

> > I tried this with -n (dry-run) just for curiosity, and naturally it didn't 
> > work:

> > I got

> > pkg: Unable to open plist file: 
> > /var/db/pkg/texlive-texmf-20150523_3/+CONTENTS
> > Skipping invalid package: /var/db/pkg/texlive-texmf-20150523_3

> > and many more like that.

> > If this legacy functionality is long gone, why is it still in the man page 
> > or "pkg help convert"?

> > I saw it as recently as 11.1-PRERELEASE.

> I believe the documentation is somewhat inaccurate: pkg-convert(8) will
> convert the old pkg_tools format to pkg(8), but not the reverse.

> Yes, this is pretty much of legacy interest only nowadays, but I suspect
> there are still 8.x machines needing upgrade here and there.

> Cheers,

> Matthew

Actually, I have an old FreeBSD 8.2 installation on a 40 GB IDE hard drive, MBR 
with legacy FreeBSD bsdlabel on MBR slice 4, not enough maneuvering space for 
any upgrading.

I had the later thought, pkg is also in NetBSD pkgsrc, maybe pkg convert in 
NetBSD, but I would be inclined to try only on a system already messed up 
sufficiently that there is nothing further to lose.

Or one can use pkgsrc (ouch!) with FreeBSD with old pkg_* tools and decide to 
switch to FreeBSD pkgng format.  

Tom

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pkg convert?

[Thomas Mueller]

Looking through the man page for pkg, I see there is still an entry for convert 
("pkg help convert" or "man pkg-convert").

DESCRIPTION
 pkg convert is used to convert from/to pkg(8) local database to legacy
 pkg_install tools format.

OPTIONS
 The following options are supported by pkg convert:

 -d pkg_dbdir, --pkg-dbdir pkg_dbdir
 The location of the pkg_add(1) dbdir.  Defaults to /var/db/pkg.

 -n, --dry-run
 Dry-run mode.  Do not actually convert anything.  Just show what
 would be done.

What is this?  Looks obsolete to me, I thought the legacy pkg_install tools 
format was long gone with no going back.

I tried this with -n (dry-run) just for curiosity, and naturally it didn't work:

I got

pkg: Unable to open plist file: /var/db/pkg/texlive-texmf-20150523_3/+CONTENTS
Skipping invalid package: /var/db/pkg/texlive-texmf-20150523_3

and many more like that.

If this legacy functionality is long gone, why is it still in the man page or 
"pkg help convert"? 

I saw it as recently as 11.1-PRERELEASE.


Tom

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www/xombrero : master website no good

[Thomas Mueller]

I was curious about what, if anything, was happening with xombrero web browser, 
which seems to have fallen into desuetude.

Website in the Makefile appears to be no good ( 
https://opensource.conformal.com/snapshots/xombrero/ ):

host opensource.conformal.com shows 

Host opensource.conformal.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

Wikipedia shows another website, valid,

https://github.com/conformal/xombrero

but this website has a line near the top that says


xombrero has been retired and is no longer under development and supported.


Tom

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Re: Synth: copying installation to second computer

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 13 June 2017 at 18:01, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:

> > I just managed to install (first part) ports-mgmt/synth on FreeBSD 
> > 11.1-PRERELEASE amd64, using portmaster after deleting all packages except 
> > pkg and portmaster.  Those old packages were no good anyway due to shared 
> > libraaries being out of sync.

> >  Now I want to convert packages to synth repository format and copy this 
> > installation to another computer with same FreeBSD 11.1-PRERELEASE using 
> > NFS, doing as little recompilation as possible.

> >  This is my first (partway) success after an attempt to build synth on 
> > FreeBSD-CURRENT amd64, before ino64, was stopped by a system crash and 
> > reboot while I was sleeping.

> > I looked through README.md and man synth, but there are still some hazy 
> > points.  Or is it easier than I think?

> The thing to note is that ports-mgmt/synth is a repository builder.
> Coming from portupgrade or portmaster, a user may think that it is
> rebuilding too many packages for a simple port change, but what it is
> doing is verifying that the chain of construction for each port is
> working as expected. The first build is always going to be long, but
> will do concurrent builds as much as it much as possible.

> Once you have a complete repo on one of your machines, you can simply
> serve up the /var/synth/live_packages using www/apache24 or even ssh.
> On each of the remote hosts, all you have to do is to add a
> /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/my-local-repo.conf entry, eg:
#
> # Locally built packages
#
> localrepo: {
>   url  : http://my-build-host/live_packages,
>   priority : 20,
>   enabled  : yes,
}

> And then you're good to go with "pkg upgrade -r localrepo" on each of
> the remote hosts.

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen

I think my main concern is getting packages into a synth-recognized repository.

I would use NFS rather than http.  I would need to be sure to disable 
freebsd.org server in the conf, think I just did, now need to check on the 
other computer.

I don't really want to have to rebuild synth and dependencies redundantly after 
all are installed on first build-host computer.

But I would want to use synth on either computer without depending on the other 
computer; what I am concerned with now is getting started.

Tom

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Synth: copying installation to second computer

[Thomas Mueller]

I just managed to install (first part) ports-mgmt/synth on FreeBSD 
11.1-PRERELEASE amd64, using portmaster after deleting all packages except pkg 
and portmaster.  Those old packages were no good anyway due to shared 
libraaries being out of sync.

Now I want to convert packages to synth repository format and copy this 
installation to another computer with same FreeBSD 11.1-PRERELEASE using NFS, 
doing as little recompilation as possible.

This is my first (partway) success after an attempt to build synth on 
FreeBSD-CURRENT amd64, before ino64, was stopped by a system crash and reboot 
while I was sleeping.

I looked through README.md and man synth, but there are still some hazy points. 
 Or is it easier than I think?


Tom

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Re: bapt@ back on portmgr

[Thomas Mueller]

from Matthew Seaman and my previous post:

> > But what is happening with synth, supposed to make portupgrade and
> > portmaster obsolete?
> Synth is still being actively developed but the author is now working
> primarily on DFly.  There is a new maintainer for the synth port who
> will be porting the latest updates to FreeBSD, much like almost any
> other piece of software in the ports.

> At the moment there is a problem with synth on recent FreeBSD HEAD due
> to not having a working ada compiler.  This will be solved eventually as
> the bugs in various toolchains get worked out.

My understanding is that the trouble is related to the change to 64-bit inodes 
on FreeBSD HEAD.

lang/gcc5-aux and gcc6-aux won't build.

How are users supposed to know if and when this is fixed?

I looked in Makefile for ports-mgmt/synth and lang/gcc6-aux and gcc5-aux, and 
there was no indication of anything amiss.

There ought to be a BROKEN notice in the Makefile to save users from the 
exercise in frustration.

For now, I am not doing anything on FreeBSD HEAD; updating 11.1-PRERELEASE 
(stable branch) instead.


Tom

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Re: bapt@ back on portmgr

[Thomas Mueller]

from René Ladan:

> it is our pleasure to announce that Baptiste Daroussin (bapt@) is back on 
> portmgr.

Is this a new port in the works, or is portmgr a (confusing) abbreviation for 
portmanager?

I never used portmanager, but remember from the days of the old pkg_* tools, 
before pkgng, some users swore by portmanager.

Then portmanager was not compatible with pkgng.  Maybe it can be revived?

But what is happening with synth, supposed to make portupgrade and portmaster 
obsolete?

Tom

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Status of lang/gcc5-aux and lang/gcc6-aux on FreeBSD-current?

[Thomas Mueller]

What is the status of gcc-aux (5 and 6) on FreeBSD-current following the 
introduction of 64-bit inodes?

It was broken, so I read from the emailing list, but is it still broken?

No indication of being broken in PORTSDIR/lang/gcc6-aux or gcc5-aux.



Tom

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Re: The future of portmaster [and of ports-mgmt/synth]

[Thomas Mueller]

from Stari Karp:

> On Fri, 2017-06-02 at 06:24 -0400, Jim Ohlstein wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-06-02 at 06:10 -0400, Stari Karp wrote:
> > > Looks like the new portmaster is coming but what is about Synth? I am
> > > the user of Synth and I like to know what the FreeBSD leaders decided, 
> > > please.

> > The "FreeBSD leaders," in their infinite wisdom, decided to can John
> > Marino. Synth development will likely go on, geared towards Dragonfly.
> > Whether it will support future FreeBSD ports enhancements is anyone's
> > guess. Whether gcc6-aux will ever be fixed for 12-CURRENT and 64 bit
> > inodes is also anyone's guess.

> > Sadly, it is/
> > was the best option for users looking to migrate to a "modern" tool for
> > whom poudriere was too much.

> I did install Dragonfly too and for my needs is very good. I am buying
> a new ssd drive and I will installed os from scratch. And I knew what
> happened with John Marino.

One problem I had with DragonFlyBSD was that I couldn't mount/read a NetBSD or 
FreeBSD partition, and FreeBSD and NetBSD couldn't mount/read a DragonFly 
partition.

That was on the DragonFly boot image written to USB stick, last version was 
somewhere before 4.4.

Latest experience (4.4.x) was that DragonFly installation boot image, written 
to USB stick, hung on boot.

I checked ports-mgmt/synth/Makefile for DPorts on github.com and see 

MAINTAINER= ericturgeon@gmail.com

but for pkgsrc-synth/pkgtools/synth in (NetBSD) pkgsrc,

MAINTAINER= dr...@marino.st
HOMEPAGE=   https://github.com/jrmarino/synth

I was not behind the scenes to judge who was right and who was wrong in the 
John Marino debacle.

It seems nobody in NetBSD, except John Marino, uses pkg or synth with pkgsrc, 
so if I try and need help, there would be no community to help.

64-bit inodes are not the only snag in 12-CURRENT.  Remember pkgbase, 
originally planned for 11.0-RELEASE?

I'll have to see what I can do with 11-STABLE and let 12-CURRENT wait on hold.

Tom

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Re: The future of portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

> On Wed, 2017-05-31 at 12:47 +, Gerard Seibert wrote:
> > I would just like a clarification here. For the record, synth is
> > broken
> > on FreeBSD-11 and above with amd64. Is that correct?

> My understanding was that the breakage is in gcc6-aux on 12-CURRENT
> with 64 bit inodes.

> I may be wrong...

> Jim Ohlstein

That was my understanding too, both gcc5-aux and gcc6-aux being broken on 
CURRENT with 64-bit inodes.

Now I feel like I can upgrade with 11.0-STABLE but not CURRENT.

My recent CURRENT installation seems too unstable to use as a build host.

I would rebuild 11.0-STABLE first and later use that as a host to rebuild 
CURRENT.

I would want gcc(5 or 6)-aux not only for synth but also (gcc5) to try to 
cross-compile Haiku and (gcc5 or 6) to try to cross-compile a Linux toolchain.

I would also want an updated FreeBSD system that ports would support as opposed 
to something like

FreeBSD amelia 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #10 r294248: Mon Jan 18 
11:28:40 UTC 2016 root@amelia:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SANDY11NC  amd64

Regarding portmaster, when something on which a lot of other ports depend is 
upgraded, such as a major version update of png, it takes many runs of 
portmaster before everything is successfully updated.

Tom

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Re: The future of portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post is that the UPDATING file looks 
geared to portmaster and portupgrade.

Users are thus led to believe that portupgrade and portmaster are still the 
currently recommended tools.

If the ports people want to get users to switch to synth or poudriere, updating 
instructions should include synth and poudriere.


Tom

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Re: The future of portmaster

[Thomas Mueller]

> The ports tree continues to evolve. Major new features are planned and in the 
> process of being implemented. These changes will break all the port-building 
> tools.

> poudriere and synth are actively developed, so they will quickly support the 
> new changes. portmaster and portupgrade are no longer being actively 
> developed, so it is anticipated that they will stop working until somebody 
> fixes
> them (if at all).

> So no, portmaster isn't going away. But, there's no guarantee that it will 
> keep working. We strongly, strongly advise everyone to use poudriere or synth 
> to build their ports, and then plain old "pkg upgrade" to handle updates.

> The vast majority of problems reported on this mailing list exist only in 
> portmaster/portupgrade, because they do not do clean builds. At this point, 
> portmaster should only be used by people with enough ports development
> experience to understand and mitigate conflicts and various build errors.

# Adam


> Adam Weinberger

I remember the days when some FreeBSD users swore by portmanager, but 
subsequent changes to ports framework rendered portmanager unworkable.  I never 
used portmanager.

I used portupgrade but switched to portmaster.

First attempt to build synth failed on FreeBSD-current when the system crashed 
and rebooted as I was sleeping, so maybe not synth's fault.

Now I see it might be impossible to build synth on FreeBSD-current due to some 
ports, including lang/gcc5-aux and lang/gcc6-aux, not building following the 
change to ino64; lang/gcc6-aux is a dependency of synth.

But I suppose this will be patched, hopefully in the near future.

I noticed that synth was ported to NetBSD along with pkg, but see nothing on 
NetBSD emailing lists regarding synth.

Maybe synth is not catching on in NetBSD; pkgsrc users seem to be staying with 
pkg_* tools like in FreeBSD before the switch to pkgng.  Big nuisance updating 
packages whose names have changed.

Tom

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Re: Document for OPTIONS syntax in /etc/make.conf, where to find?

[Thomas Mueller]

> On 25 May 2017 at 19:47, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:
[...]
> > The new synth has no mechanism for configuring options; I guess that would 
> > have to be done by
> > make config-recursive ,
> > possibly several times until there is nothing more left to configure, as I 
> > did when using portupgrade and later portmaster.

> >From synth(1) man page:
 -make.conf
   This is an optional, user-provided file. If it exists,
   the builder's /etc/make.conf will be appended with the
   contents of this file. For the default profile, the
   file would normally be located at
   /usr/local/etc/synth/LiveSystem-make.conf

> Cheers.

> Jonathan Chen <j...@chen.org.nz>

Thanks for the tip.

I already have read the man page because I git-cloned synth tree from github 
repository.

I want to keep the Ada code for viewing, among other things.

My first attempt to build synth was on FreeBSD-current amd64 and failed when 
the system rebooted itself when I was sleeping.  Apparently no filesystem 
damage.

System came up in System Rescue CD 5.0.0 USB-stick installation.

I attribute this to FreeBSD-current instability rather than synth or ports, 
meaning I must first rebuild FreeBSD 11.0-STABLE amd64 installation, and then 
from there, FreeBSD-current amd64.

Tom

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Re: Document for OPTIONS syntax in /etc/make.conf, where to find?

[Thomas Mueller]

> > On 24 May, 2017, at 21:52, Thomas Mueller <mueller6...@twc.com> wrote:

> > Where do I find documentation so I get the correct syntax for setting ports 
> > options in /etc/make.conf ?

> > I tried "man ports", "man make", "man make.conf", and the online Porters' 
> > Handbook but have been unable to find the needle in the haystack.

> > NetBSD pkgsrc and Gentoo (Linux) portage document this much better.


> Tom

> You'll find some info in the instructions at the top of 
> /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.options.mk; there's not a lot of info because it's not 
> generally the preferred place to specify options.

> To turn something off by default on all ports (which can always be overridden 
> by make config),
OPTIONS_UNSET=  NLS

> To turn something off which overrides make config,
OPTIONS_UNSET_FORCE=NLS

> You can set options for individual ports in make.conf too, though it's almost 
> always a better idea to run 'make config' or 'poudriere options':
> /usr/ports/editors/vim$ make -V OPTIONS_NAME
> editors_vim

> make.conf:
> editors_vim_UNSET=  NLS
 
# Adam


> Adam Weinberger

While the newer dialog4ports is a big improvement over the previous dialog, it 
is still difficult to go back in case of finger error.

Previous dialog tended to make a mess of the screen, especially when I teed to 
a log file.

Now I have a better idea what to do to set options.

I still have in /etc/make.conf from some time ago,

OPTIONS_SET.mpop=GNUTLS NLS

I guess that would need to be revised to

mail_mpop_set=GNUTLS NLS

if I stay with the same options.

The new synth has no mechanism for configuring options; I guess that would have 
to be done by
make config-recursive ,
possibly several times until there is nothing more left to configure, as I did 
when using portupgrade and later portmaster.

Thanks for the tips!

Other options-configuring systems don't have the dialog: I am thinking of 
NetBSD pkgsrc and Gentoo portage (not all-inclusive).

Tom

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Document for OPTIONS syntax in /etc/make.conf, where to find?

[Thomas Mueller]

Where do I find documentation so I get the correct syntax for setting ports 
options in /etc/make.conf ?

I tried "man ports", "man make", "man make.conf", and the online Porters' 
Handbook but have been unable to find the needle in the haystack.

NetBSD pkgsrc and Gentoo (Linux) portage document this much better.


Tom

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Which wine do I need?

[Thomas Mueller]

I see several different wine ports and would like to know which I need for 
amd64 and which I need for an i386 installation.

from David Naylor:

> On Saturday, 13 May 2017 08:16:55 Thomas Mueller wrote:
> > I see several different wine ports and would like to know which I need for
> > amd64 and which I need for an i386 installation.

> > I don't really want i386-wine as such, since I would install wine on i386
> > and could then mount this partition at /compat/i386 to run from amd64,
> > while retaining the ability to run from straight i386.

> This is effectively what i386-wine does: it bundles the required 32-bit
> libraries from a i386 host/environment and packages them such that they can
> run on an amd64 machine.

> > Am I correct that I would build wine (or wine-devel) on i386 and then
> > install wine or wine-devel on amd64?

> Correct, you should use the same port for both i386 and amd64, however if you
> are running Windows programs from /compat/i386 then there is no need to
> install wine on the amd64 host (unless you want to run 64-bit programs).

> > Am I better off doing this on FreeBSD 11-STABLE or on 12-HEAD?

> Normally CURRENT doesn't cause issues with wine, however STABLE will more,
> well, more stable.  I wouldn't base the decision of CURRENT/STABLE on whats
> best for Wine.  We do, however, need more people to test CURRENT.

My thought for building FreeBSD 11-STABLE for i386 is being better able to run 
wine from amd64, either HEAD or STABLE.

I think there might be problems using wine on i386 HEAD from 11-STABLE amd64?

Tom

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Which wine do I need?

[Thomas Mueller]

I see several different wine ports and would like to know which I need for 
amd64 and which I need for an i386 installation.

I don't really want i386-wine as such, since I would install wine on i386 and 
could then mount this partition at /compat/i386 to run from amd64, while 
retaining the ability to run from straight i386.

Am I correct that I would build wine (or wine-devel) on i386 and then install 
wine or wine-devel on amd64?

Am I better off doing this on FreeBSD 11-STABLE or on 12-HEAD? 

Tom

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Re: Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

from Jason Harris:

> Some rationale for why gzip encoding is enabled:

> https://davidwalsh.name/check-gzip

> A look at the headers and how wget behaves:

>   wget --no-check-certificate -S --header="Accept-Encoding: gzip" 
> "https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/xcb-proto/files/patch-xcbgen_align.py?revision=425597=co;

> What to add to your /usr/local/etc/lynx.cfg:

> PREFERRED_ENCODING:NONE

> HTH.

Yes, that worked, files in 
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/xcb-proto/files
downloaded true, file sizes were correct, no gzip.

My thanks.

But this really needs to be better documented.

Tom

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Re: Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

> I have never seen lynx compress an uncompressed file.  However, if lynx sends 
> a header that it can _accept_ gzip encoding, which I believe it might, the 
> webserver can easily gzip the contents to save bandwidth.  lynx could
possibly be saving that compressed content to disk, with a .gz extension...
  
> Personally, I use elinks (and used to be its FreeBSD maintainer) way more 
> often than lynx.
  
> Can you send an URL to recreate the problem?

URL where I was stung was
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/xcb-proto/files
with two patch files in that directory.

I was thinking about using links or elinks instead of lynx, but 
textproc/docbook-tools uses www/lynx as a dependency.

If I don't want links' crude graphics implementation, elinks might be smaller 
and good enough.

Building links with directfb option can take a long time; one is better off 
with Firefox or Seamonkey.

I also emailed the upstream maintainer, Thomas Dickey 
(dic...@invisible-island.net).

Tom

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Re: Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

> Thomas Mueller skrev:

> > Documentation on Lynx and w3m are awful hard to find!

> > I couldn't find anything on auto_uncompress or anything else that might be 
> > put in ~/.w3m/config.

> > If the file on the server is already compressed, for instance a tarball, 
> > then I want to download it that way.

> > But a browser/downloader has no proper business compressing a file to be 
> > downloaded.

> For w3m you can set accept_encoding. Default is

> accept_encoding gzip, compress, bzip, bzip2, deflate

> Try to remove gz, bzip, bzip2 or set it to "".

> If you think this is a bug you should report it upstream:

> https://github.com/tats/w3m

> Herbert

I looked through w3m documentation and found nothing on accept_encoding.

Their website suggests that w3m is more of a pager than a web browser.

Elvis (enhanced vi clone) is/was also a rudimentary text-mode web browser.

I don't install w3m explicitly, only if it is pulled in by the ports system as 
a dependency.

Maybe I will take the same approach regarding lynx?

I intend to check a NetBSD installation with lynx to see if that misbehaves the 
same way regarding gratuitous, unwanted gzip compression of downloads.

I haven't used links in some time; remember a build on FreeBSD took six hours, 
but that was with DirectFB on a computer with 256 MB RAM.

I think I need to email dic...@invisible-island.net .

Tom

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Re: Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

from Anatoly:

> If you wish console browser, try links
> if you wish http get tool, try curl

Curl is tricky to get right from the command line, I tried.

I have no recent experience with links.  Should I build with graphics, without 
graphics, or build links1?

Lynx and w3m people hide the documentation, but I looked through sample 
lynx.cfg.

Do I need to set
GZIP_PATH=/dev/null ?

Lynx was nice before it got intimately mixed with gzip.

Tom

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Re: Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

> > Thomas Mueller skrev:

> > I don't use lynx (text-mode web browser) much, but have run into a problem 
> > that I never had before.
> > Lynx, and also w3m, download what are supposed to be text files and then I 
> > see the gzip'ed version on the hard drive.

> > Lynx used to download files as is!

> > I looked through "man lynx", also /usr/local/etc/lynx.cfg, and couldn't 
> > figure how to disable the annoying, gratuitous gzip.

> > Mozilla Seamonkey and Firefox can download straight without altering.

> > My previous experience was that Lynx was trustworthy and would download 
> > files as is.

> For w3m you can try to set 'auto_uncompress 1' in ~/.w3m/config.

> Herbert

Documentation on Lynx and w3m are awful hard to find!

I couldn't find anything on auto_uncompress or anything else that might be put 
in ~/.w3m/config.

If the file on the server is already compressed, for instance a tarball, then I 
want to download it that way.

But a browser/downloader has no proper business compressing a file to be 
downloaded.

I might try on a NetBSD installation where I believe I installed lynx to 
compare the download automatic gzip behavior.

Tom

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Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

> If you're just trying to grab a file, fetch(1) may prove adequate.
> (It's in base.)
  
> Peace,
> david
>-
> David H. Wolfskill  

I tried fetch, but got something entirely different, the stuff on the web page, 
but not the desired file.

File compression, such as PKZIP, Infozip, gzip, bzip2, 7-zip, RAR, xz are 
useful in places but can be overbearing in other places.

Compressing man pages is more pain in the ass than benefit.

Tom

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Downloading with lynx or w3m, how to download as is, without gratuitous gzip

[Thomas Mueller]

I don't use lynx (text-mode web browser) much, but have run into a problem that 
I never had before.

Lynx, and also w3m, download what are supposed to be text files and then I see 
the gzip'ed version on the hard drive.

Lynx used to download files as is!

I looked through "man lynx", also /usr/local/etc/lynx.cfg, and couldn't figure 
how to disable the annoying, gratuitous gzip.

Mozilla Seamonkey and Firefox can download straight without altering.

My previous experience was that Lynx was trustworthy and would download files 
as is.

Otherwise, what other text-mode web browsers are there in case my graphic 
interface (X) is not installed or is not operational?

In this case, the problem arose due to a conflict reported by svn in 
/usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto/files
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/xcb-proto/files

I solved that problem with "svn revert -R" but still would like to know how to 
make lynx properly functional again.

Lynx seems much easier to use than w3m, if I could find a way around its fetish 
with gzip; w3m also showed this fetish.

Tom

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Re: svn error: node conflict in /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto/files

[Thomas Mueller]

> Thomas Mueller skrev:

> > On this computer, I can't get /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto/files:
> > Skipped 'files' -- Node remains in conflict
> > At revision 439134.
> > Summary of conflicts:
> >   Skipped paths: 1

> Have you tried 'svn revert -R .' in /usr/ports? Or a fresh checkout?
> Have you tried svnlite from base?

Yes, that fixed it.  I really don't know much about the inner workings of 
subversion, or git for that matter.

I excluded svnlite and portsnap from buildworld, figuring it was redundant with 
the full svn.

> > On other computer, this directory downloads successfully with svn.

> > I even tried downloading with lynx and with w3m, but these text-mode
> > browsers compress (gzip) the downloaded file, and I can't see how to
> > avoid this.  I used to be able to download with lynx, and downloaded
> > file was the same as on the server; lynx would never compress it
> > gratuitously.

> > This is an old installation, needs to be updated when I can get to it after 
> > some other tasks.

> > svn --version shows
> > svn, version 1.8.8 (r1568071)
> >compiled Mar 24 2014, 09:58:59 on amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0

> > uname -a shows

> > FreeBSD amelia2 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #1 r286653M: Wed
> Aug 12 15:25:51 UTC 2015
> > root@amelia2:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SANDY11NC-NDIS amd64

> You should really update world/kernel first and then update all your ports.
> At least some ports will probably fail on this old system.

> Herbert

I know or strongly believe I need to update world/kernel before updating ports; 
that applies to NetBSD as well as FreeBSD.

I remember reading on this emailing list (ports) that ports might not build if 
the underlying base system is not supported.

In any case, I would have to rebuild ports again after updating world/kernel.

I was stung on that matter at least once when I updated world/kernel, believe I 
ran "make delete-old-libs", rendered many ports nonoperational, and had a lot 
of rebuilding to do.

If I don't want to risk making the present installation nonoperational, I can 
make another (GPT) partition and install to that.  I have more than enough 
space on 3 TB hard drive.

Tom

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svn error: node conflict in /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto/files

[Thomas Mueller]

On this computer, I can't get /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto/files: 

Skipped 'files' -- Node remains in conflict 
At revision 439134. 
Summary of conflicts:   
  Skipped paths: 1  

On other computer, this directory downloads successfully with svn.

I even tried downloading with lynx and with w3m, but these text-mode browsers 
compress (gzip) the downloaded file, and I can't see how to avoid this.  I used 
to be able to download with lynx, and downloaded file was the same as on the 
server; lynx would never compress it gratuitously.

This is an old installation, needs to be updated when I can get to it after 
some other tasks.

svn --version shows
svn, version 1.8.8 (r1568071)   
   compiled Mar 24 2014, 09:58:59 on amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0 

uname -a shows

FreeBSD amelia2 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #1 r286653M: Wed Aug 12 
15:25:51 UTC 2015 root@amelia2:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SANDY11NC-NDIS  amd64

I wonder about the error message.  It recurs even if I rmdir the files 
directory and run "svn up ." again.

Could it be something going bad with this Western Digital 3 TB hard drive?

Old Xorg installation no longer works, crashes the computer immediately, so I 
can't use graphic browser unless I go to NetBSD installation that also sorely 
needs updating.  But maybe that subversion might work, onless it's something 
bad with the hard drive or some glitch with the server (but then why was it OK 
on the other computer?)

Tom

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www/xombrero status: appears to be discontinued upstream

[Thomas Mueller]

I find on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xombrero) that Xombrero web 
browser has been discontinued:

In early 2017, it appeared the project was likely to be discontinued, as 
xombrero depended on an old version of WebKit which had multiple security 
vulnerabilities, and a port to a modern version of WebKit would be 
difficult.[16][2] Due to these issues,[3] OpenBSD removed xombrero from its 
ports tree on 1 February 2017.[17]

I could not reach Xombrero's website
MASTER_SITES=   https://opensource.conformal.com/snapshots/xombrero/

I checked on Github and indeed found that work on Xombrero had ceased:

xombrero has been retired and is no longer under development and supported. 

So it looks like www/xombrero is a candidate for deletion from FreeBSD ports?

Tom

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RE: disk space needs for source based system and ports?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Mark Millard:

> Thomas Mueller mueller6722 at twc.com wrote on Tue Mar 28 08:10:44 UTC 2017 :

> > This raises the question, how much diskspace is required or advised for a 
> > full
> > FreeBSD installation if both the base system and ports are built from 
> > source?

> I've only ever built a very small portion of all the ports. There are
> 10s of thousands of ports as I understand. (I've not tried to count
> them.) In the environment with the most ports I'v got 331 ports built.
> (I've had  more in the past.)

> [You do not mention if you are only interested in one TARGET_ARCH
> (such as amd64) or multiple/all of them.]

> Someone may be able to answer for how space is managed on official
> FreeBSD build servers.

> Various ports that I've built or tried to build were very dependent
> on the configuration (build options, compile options, etc.) for how big
> they end up being. Some fail to build at all with WITH_DEBUG= : bugzilla
> 206279 is about www/webkit-qt5 running into a file size limit and
> aborting: ar does not allow > 4 GiByte archives.

> Also I tend to leave the /usr/obj/ ports subtrees around uncleaned so
> that I have access to source and such if problems show up. (I clean
> before building, not after.) This uses large amounts of space.

> Environment with 331 ports: about  73 GiByte used
> Environment with 107 ports: about 227 GiBytes used
> But that last has the devel/llvm40 build with WITH_DEBUG= used based
> on a standard /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.ports.mk file. Just the related
> /usr/obj/ content for that is about 118 GiBytes and the installed
> llvm40 materials are about 49 GiBytes for the specific configuration:
> so about 167 GiBytes for llvm40 as I have tend to build things.

> [If I remember right I also thought at the time that webkit-qt5 used
> the WITH_DEBUG on its own independently of FreeBSD and so defining
> it for FreeBSD caused more than intended. I could have been wrong
> about this. I stopped using such and so have not tried again. Still
> I wish FreeBSD had piked something less likely to have potential
> conflicts/less-generic, say, possibly, FBSD_WITH_DEBUG.]

> > Some messages in this thread have raised the possibility of needing 49 to 
> > over
> > 100 GB, which is much more than I have allotted.

> If your goals allow avoiding WITH_DEBUG= that will help greatly because
> some ports turn into massive things built that way.

> So would building with clean-up after each port is built.

> > Also, what about space for a local repository when using synth for ports?

> I've never used synth and most environments that I use are not supported
> by synth. So I'm unlikely to use it.

> I've only done a few poudriere-devel experiments and none of my
> environments are based on it (so far).

> > I could run out of space on some of my partitions but could make a much 
> > bigger
> > separate partition if necessary, 500 GB or more.

> Without more detail on what is to be built with what build
> options and the like I doubt you will get a detailed figure.

> Also you give no hint that would help judge how long the builds
> might take. I've been told of people letting personal(?) machines
> run for weeks/months on end.

I use mainly FreeBSD-current amd64 but also sometimes i386; also stable, so 
that makes at most four different TARGET_ARCH and FreeBSD version combinations.

Generally I don't build WITH_DEBUG.  In some cases, such as synth, I might want 
to keep the source code, Ada being the big attraction in this case.

But in your position, I can see where you might need the debugging info.  I 
generally make a log of all builds: world, kernel and ports; especially useful 
if an error occurs.

Building FreeBSD base system also uses llvm following the switch from gcc-4.2.1 
to clang.

I build a lot of ports because I want the web browsers like Mozilla Seamonkey 
or Firefox; I would also like to try Midori, Xombrero, Netsurf, maybe Otter, 
maybe Chromium; I want multimedia as much as possible.

I would not need all those browsers on multiple FreeBSD installations, just 
want to try them out.

I've had builds going up to 18 or 21 hours, don't try to go that long if 
possible.

A big spare partition of maybe 500 GB might be a good idea just in case, could 
even be used with NetBSD.  Maybe 500 GB would be overkill, I might also need a 
similar partition for Linux.

Tom

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Re: Status of synth following expulsion of John Marino?

[Thomas Mueller]

> For every build -
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/make.conf

> OPTIONS_SET= OPTIMIZED_CFLAGS SIMD PGSQL IPV6
> editors_vim_SET= CSCOPE X11 GTK3 PYTHON

> You can also get more specific by using -

> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/-make.conf
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/-make.conf
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/-make.conf
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/--make.conf
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/--make.conf
> /usr/local/etc/poudriere.d/---make.conf


> Shane Ambler

Is there any way to do this options preconfiguring not using poudriere?

One good thing about NetBSD pkgsrc, also Gentoo portage, is being able to set 
options by package or for all packages in /etc/make.conf or mk.conf .

Is there a good way to do this in FreeBSD prior to running synth?

I found it very disconcerting to do a massive portupgrade (using portupgrade), 
going to bed or otherwise away from the computer, and then finding it stopped 
at a dialog screen.

I ran make config-recursive many times, several times on the same port to get 
what was missed on the first or previous make config-recursive.

I am not familiar with the details on planned upgrades to the ports framework 
and how they will affect usability of portmaster, but remember some users swore 
by portmanager during the pkg_* days, prior to pkgng.

Portmanager could not be made compatible with pkgng and was subsequently 
dropped from ports/ports-mgmt.

Tom

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Status of synth following expulsion of John Marino?

[Thomas Mueller]

Expulsion of John Marino was a shocker to me, caught me by surprise.

Now my question is what is the status of synth?

Should I switch from portmaster to synth?

If synth is deprecated or dropped, after I switch from portmaster to synth, 
then I have to switch back, and this would be a monster mess of extra work.

Not to be inflammatory here, just want to know where I/we stand and don't want 
to go too far off course updating my ports.


Tom

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Re: The ports collection has some serious issues

[Thomas Mueller]

> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:57:38PM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Dec 2016, John Marino wrote:

> > > I never, not once, tried to "get rid of portmaster".  By repeating this
> > > untruth after I already corrected you is trolling.  There was a very
> > > small chance you were just ignorant but thanks for admitting you knew
> > > exactly what you were doing and making Dave H. look silly.

> > > What I have (and others) wanted?  What would make us happy?

> > Perhaps for you to just quietly FOAD?  When it comes to common sense, you
> > appear to be utterly impervious.


> The direction this thread is taking is intollerable in our community, please
> stay polite and keep this discussion civil (or rather bring it back to a civil
> discussion).

> We will not accept such insults in our community

> Bapt

I just looked in svnweb.freebsd.org, cvsweb.netbsd.org and the FreeBSD handbook.

What is the current status of portupgrade and portmaster?

Maintained, deprecated or something else?

Tom

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Re: Subscription for committer (was: Re: The ports collection has some serious issues)

[Thomas Mueller]

> 17.12.2016 22:40, John Marino пишет:

>> I am not subscribed to the mail list

> A port's committer is not subscribed to the ports@ ML?
> Is it a joke?

> WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)

When I see frequent posts by somebody on a mailing list, I assume that person 
is a regular and don't CC to that person when I reply.  I guess I was wrong in 
this case.

I believe the practice on most other emailing lists is to reply to the list and 
not CC to individual posters.

Most of the time, I don't think about looking for the Reply-To header line.


Tom

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Re: The ports collection has some serious issues

[Thomas Mueller]

>From John Marino and my previous post:

> > I believe you could cd $PORTSDIR/ports-mgmt/synth and
> > make package-recursive |& tee build-12amd64.log (or whatever you want to
> > name the log file; this example if for shell tcsh)?
 
> That installs build dependencies on the system.  That would be no better than
> running portmaster the first time.  If you run the process I suggested, you'll
> end up with a self-hosted machine with no extra stuff installed.


> > For a system with pkgng, is there any difference in package format
> > between "make install", portmaster and portupgrade?

> There shouldn't be, the ports framework is responsible for creating the
> package.

> > If your system already has portmaster, you could portmaster
> > ports-mgmt/synth |& tee synth-12amd64.log?

> > And then switch from portmaster to synth for all further ports
> > builds/updates?

> sure.
> Although it will still be dirty from portmaster so at that point you would
> gather a "prime list" of packages, feed thoughs into synth to create a local
> repository, remove all packages from the system and re-install them with the
> "prime list" and the new local repository.


> > It would not be necessary to start with a clean system for FreeBSD, as
> > opposed to NetBSD, or am I mistaken here?

> No, you can start anytime but I do recommend the procedure above to ensure the
> system is in good shape and doesn't contain unnecessary package installations.

I ran make all-depends-list from $PORTSDIR/ports-mgmt/synth.  Dependencies 
looked like packages I would need anyway.

I want to try to cross-compile Haiku and Linux toolchains (among other things).

I looked for synth in the online wiki.freebsd.org, found nothing, but did find 
portupgrade (no portmaster).

If FreeBSD users are to use synth, it needs to be in the documentation. 
Otherwise FreeBSD users will assume portupgrade or portmaster is the proper way 
to upgrade ports.

I would have thought there would be an Ada for ther platforms like PowerPC and 
(Ultra)Sparc.

Tom

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Re: The ports collection has some serious issues

[Thomas Mueller]

>From John Marino:

> At face value, this doesn't make sense because synth is a tool for building
> everything from source, so your development system is exactly where it should
> be installed.

> So you must be talking about build dependencies of synth (there are no run
> dependencies).  While I think the requirement of rebuilding synth from source
> is artificial, I've provided a very reasonable approach to solving this which
> I feel compelled to repeat for the readers of Kevin's post.  The solution:

> Starting with a clean system:
> 1) install synth from binary package from official freebsd builder (a single
> package)
> 2) Configure synth if necessary
> 3) command synth to build itself
> 4) pkg delete synth (system is once again clean)
> 5) pkg add -F /path/to/synth/packages/synth-*

> Now you have a system containing s/w built by itself.  On an modest system
> less than 4 years old, it might take 30 minutes at most.

> So the "synth has dependencies" detraction is extremely weak.  For people that
> trust FreeBSD to provide untainted binaries, it's not an issue at all and for
> the paranoid, it's easily worked around.  Saying that the use of Ada limits it
> to the platforms it can run on natively is a valid detraction, but it's BUILD
> dependencies really aren't due to the availability of binary packages, the
> PRIMARY product of the ports tree.

> RE: poudriere, it has no dependencies.  It's just as appropriate on the dev
> system and adding a jail and configuring it also takes less than 30 minutes.
> Either is very appropriate for a system that must build everything that is run
> on it.

I believe you could cd $PORTSDIR/ports-mgmt/synth and
make package-recursive |& tee build-12amd64.log (or whatever you want to name 
the log file; this example if for shell tcsh)?

For a system with pkgng, is there any difference in package format between 
"make install", portmaster and portupgrade?

If your system already has portmaster, you could portmaster ports-mgmt/synth |& 
tee synth-12amd64.log?

And then switch from portmaster to synth for all further ports builds/updates?

It would not be necessary to start with a clean system for FreeBSD, as opposed 
to NetBSD, or am I mistaken here?

First port-upgrading tool I used in FreeBSD was portupgrade.  Subsequently I 
switched to portmaster.

Tom

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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Thomas Mueller]

> Why can't we accept that a program which may be well over 30 years old,
> hasn't seen any update since 20 years, is more or less lost since some
> time and has no technical value (it's just some parody of a text filter)
> can be removed from the tree? Anyone who needs this port can install it
> on their own.
 
> Regards,
> Christoph

I found misc/jive in NetBSD pkgsrc, and might build and install it in NetBSD, 
since it is small and my curiosity is aroused.

But misc/jive does not like something particularly valuable or important.

Regardive offensiveness, what I really find offensive is the notion of 
political correctness; people should not be so tongue-tied.

Tom

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Re: private ports and pkgs versioning

[Thomas Mueller]

> Is there a standard way of naming a pkg that is locally compiled (maybe with a
> different set of options, or a local patch) so that it doesn't get confused
> with generic ports that are from freeBSD.org?

> I want to use mostly standard pkgs but need to compile a few myself (this
> can't be an uncommon requirement).

> How can I name my variant pkgs so the the pkg program (and ports) can still
> know that it is a satisfactory supplier of prerequisite components?

> e.g.  if a pkg wants a specific rev of libxml2 how much does it use of the
> name libxml2-2.9.2_2 ?

> Can (should) I add stuff after the '_'?  If I do will it still recognise my
> pkg file and if I do are there any rules regarding *WHAT* I can put there.

> lastly is there somewhere I should be looking to read all this information
> rather than pestering the mailing list?

> What I'd like to have is my own depot with something like:

===

> libsmi-0.4.8_1.txz
> libxcb-1.11.1.txz
> libxml2-2.9.2_2-mumble.3.txz
> lsof-4.88,8.txz
> lsof-4.90.b,8.txz
> m4-1.4.17_1,1.txz

===

> where 'mumble.3' is a locally defined addition, but all the rest of the pkgs
> are straight from pkg.freebsd.org, (or at least compile in default form).

> This "kind-of" works, but the rules of play are not defined anyhere I have
> read, so I don't know if it's going to suddenly fail one day.

> Also it's be really nice if there were a variable I could set to "mumble.3" so
> that I don't have to do a manual rename, because between the time that the
> package is made and it is renamed there is a 'misnamed' package sitting around
> acting as a potential source of confusion.

> thanks,


> Julian

I too might like to compile something not in the ports tree, would like to make 
a category "mystuff" but don't really know how to make it work.

I might get an error message for invalid category, as happened to me once in 
NetBSD with pkgsrc, and I also don't want it to be changed by svn update, or 
cvs update in the case of NetBSD and pkgsrc.

One package of possible interest is Steffen Daode Nurpmeso's s-nail, to be 
renamed to s-mailx, which is an update to heirloom-mailx and mailx or nail; 
included in Arch Linux and OpenBSD ports.

Or maybe I want to test a modification to an existing package.

Tom

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Re: Seamonkey and QupZilla need update?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Matthew Rezny:

> Qupzill-qt5 is a much better choice than qupzilla-qt4 due to the newer webkit
> included in qt5, relative to qt4. That is version of webkit in qt5 (even 5.6)
> is quite dated.

> QupZilla 2.x is signiificantly different, re-written to use qtwebengine 
> instead
> of qtwebkit. qtwebengine has not been ported since that is a task similar to
> Chromium and upstream (Google) does not accept patched for platforms they
> don't support, i.e. *BSD. QupZilla 2.x will be a separate port from QupZilla
> 1.x, but that will not come until qtwebengine.

> Meanwhile, there is a new effort to maintain qtwebkit upstream, and this is
> being tested. It is not yet feature complete, but there should be an updated
> qtwebkit sooner or later which works with QupZilla 1.x and other browsers.

Thanks to you and Olivier Duchateau for explanation regarding complications 
involved in updating QupZilla!

I see Haikuports includes QupZilla only up to 1.8.7, and QupZilla is not in 
NetBSD pkgsrc but is in pkgsrc/wip (work in progress) at v1.8.6.

I'd like to be able to switch fully from qt4 to qt5, but print/hplip is set up 
only for qt4; however print/hplip in pkgsrc offers the choice between qt4 and 
qt5, qt4 being regarded as legacy.

Tom

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Seamonkey and QupZilla need update?

[Thomas Mueller]

What is the status of www/seamonkey and prospect of updating from 2.39 to the 
current 2.40, which was released from upstream on March 14, 2016?

What makes me nervous is my bank saber-rattling about needing a more current 
browser.

Seamonkey 2.39 worked on this bank, now it blocks me with error message about 
my browser not being up-to-date; Seamonkey still works for other online 
financial services.  

I figure either the bank website doesn't like Seamonkey, though Firefox also 
appears in the user-agent string, or doesn't like FreeBSD, insisting on Windows 
or Mac.

I also have www/qupzilla-qt4 1.8.9, see on qupzilla.com that current version is 
2.0.1.  I have used qupzilla-qt4 1.8.9, but it seems less robust that Seamonkey 
2.39.  Reason for my interest is the ability to fudge the user-agent string; I 
believe Xombrero and Midori also have this ability.

If I have to build qupzilla anew, hopefully updated, I might switch to 
qupzilla-qt5.

uname -a shows

FreeBSD amelia 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #10 r294248: Mon Jan 18 
11:28:40 UTC 2016 root@amelia:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SANDY11NC  amd64

I am getting ready to update both NetBSD and FreeBSD.

Tom

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