Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:29:42 +, Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
   * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a
 productive answer to a problem.  Alas, this is often what you get
 when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you
 hand them a web interface to freely post short, often
 unintelligible snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a
 FAQ page.

 There's a Thanks button feature in vBulletin that can be enabled to
 help catch the 'me too' type postings.

Heh, yes.  It may take a while to catch on, but it's nice to have it :D

 I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU
 Emacs for more than a couple of years now.  Here's how a typical ``post
 to a forum'' session looks like for me now:

   http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/

 Oh, wow.  That's perfect.  Or it would be if it was compatible with
 firefox-3.0.4 ...

It is.  I'm using it with Firefox 3.0.4, after installing the plugin
from this page:

http://mozex.mozdev.org/

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Glyn Millington
Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:

   * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a
 productive answer to a problem.  Alas, this is often what you get
 when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you hand
 them a web interface to freely post short, often unintelligible
 snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a FAQ page.

 There's a Thanks button feature in vBulletin that can be enabled to
 help catch the 'me too' type postings.

 I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU
 Emacs for more than a couple of years now.  Here's how a typical ``post
 to a forum'' session looks like for me now:

   http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/

 Oh, wow.  That's perfect.  Or it would be if it was compatible with
 firefox-3.0.4 ... 

Well, yes, but Its All Text does the same trick for text boxes and it
is compatible.


https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125

Wouldn't be without it!

atb


Glyn
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Da Rock

On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 11:38 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:
 * Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-14 14:56:26 -0800]:
 
 opinion But why are we interested in converting people?  That
 borders on religious, which an operating system should not be.
 
 
 I'm not saying we don't need new users -- I'm saying: if we took half
 the energy used converting people and applied it to fixing bugs and
 improving FreeBSD, there wouldn't be a need to convert.  Build it
 (and secure/stabilise it) and they will come.
 
 Indeed, what IS the value of more users to a volunteer project like
 FreeBSD?
 
 Microsoft, Apple, etc. want more users on their OS because it increases
 their profits.  But who gets more money if ten thousand users switch to
 FreeBSD?  
 
 FreeBSD already has a large enough user base to attract the attention of
 developers deciding which platforms to target with their apps.  But even
 if it didn't, it has a large developer community of its own, and they've
 done a great job porting apps, as well as creating new apps themselves.  
 New users who are also developers can contribute to this effort,
 so it makes sense to actively recruit them.
 
 But why should we want to increase the number of ordinary, non-developer
 users?  If these new users also contribute to the project, by working on
 documentation or other non-programming tasks, then it makes sense to
 actively recruit them too.
 
 Perhaps there's an implicit calculation that only x percent of new users
 will actually contribute to the project, so if you want/need C new
 contributors, you should aim to recruit N = C / x new users.
 
 Some of the comments in this thread have expressed one of the problems
 new users can bring: an expectation and demand that things work the way
 they used to on their old OS.  People who voice these concerns want to
 preserve the Unix philosophy and culture, so they don't welcome
 immigrants who refuse to assimilate.  They don't see those immigrants as
 potential contributors to the project; they see them as people who want
 to replace it with a different project altogether.
 
 ...which perhaps explains why some people want to impose something like
 a Unix citizenship test.
 
 Users can also contribute by helping to refine the requirements for
 software.  For example, my son is an animator and he and I have often
 discussed various graphics tools.  In his opinion, the Gimp is a
 powerful tool which provides almost every tool or technique an artist
 might want, but it's unusable because its user interface doesn't reflect
 the way artists actually do their work.  He says this isn't just that
 they're used to Photoshop or whatever; there's something about the
 nature of the task that the Gimp fails to accommodate in a natural,
 effortless way.  He says the Gimp feels like a tool designed by software
 engineers rather than artists. 
 
 We need users like that, who aren't developers but who are experts in
 their own domain.  How much of FreeBSD's strength as a server derives
 from the fact that so many of its users have been sysadmins with a keen
 awareness of the day-to-day problems in that domain? (It's also been an
 important fact that many of them are developers too.)
 
 So when new users appear and start requesting changes to make things
 more like the system they came from, we shouldn't automatically classify
 them as unassimilable immigrants.  We should try to understand what
 they're really looking for, and whether or how our current software
 supports it.  
 
 It's especially important to understand why they left their old home.
 What was the need that inspired them to consider a change?  How did
 their old OS fail to meet that need?
 
 Sometimes our answer to them is going to be, No, sorry, our project
 isn't designed to do that or That isn't one of our project's goals.
 Maybe you should consider Project Y instead.  There's nothing wrong
 with that kind of answer.  It's coheres with the Unix philosophy of
 clarity of purpose (e.g., tools that do one thing and do it well.)
 
 So, in conclusion, we DON'T need new users because growing the userbase
 is good in itself. Sometimes growth is cancerous, and kills the body.
 We DO need new users insofar as they help us meet the goals of our
 project. 
 
 (And sometimes new users suggest new goals for us to pursue.)
 
 -- Charlie

Thats a very good point, and in my own case I'm not here to leach off
the systems here. I make points of driver issues, but I so far have
lacked the abilities to change this; ergo I turn to the lists... That
won't be forever, my skills as a developer have grown and now its simply
a matter of time to work on these projects.

I have a skill such as mentioned here, in the manner of my users have a
great deal of experience in their fields (including myself) and can make
valid suggestions as to how to make things better. Better yet I'm trying
enact some of those suggestions and test them locally with the users.
I'm also trying to train my users to use 

Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Da Rock

On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 11:54 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:
 * Da Rock [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-16 15:21:27 +1000]:
 
 
 The reason for sending the OP to linux first is they will not be
 deterred by the driver and hardware issues. Linux IS easier in this way,
 and has a greater support for hardware that is used outside of a server
 environment. It also allows them to learn the *nix methodology and
 software.
 
 To the extent that Linux succeeds in making things just work, it will
 prevent or at least delay the user's learning the Unix way.
 
 Most of us got our Unix knowledge the old-fashioned way: we earned it.
 We stumbled over one problem or another and fought our way through to a
 solution.
 
 When things just work, only the technically curious will explore
 beneath the hood to see exactly how they work.
 
 Maybe we shouldn't make it a goal that every user should have that kind
 of deep-water knowledge?
 
 Should it really be a goal that every user become familiar with the
 shell and commandline tools?  Why not let them live happily ever after
 in a point-and-click world?

Maybe, but they will still hit some issues, and they will still find
things very different than what they're used to in windows- this in
itself is deep enough water for most that are very M$-centric. Why make
it harder?

Let them get used to the environment, see what actually happens when
things are plugged in and what not, then eventually they will be forced
to go to the cli to do exactly what they want. Once they get passed the
initial chill of the water then they can ease into the *nix methods on
the cli, and then they will be more comfortable to use Unix outright,
solve the issues with the hardware/software/uses they wish to put it to.

Maybe we differ in opinion just a little this way...

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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Da Rock

On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 22:53 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
  Still it goes, the OP is trying to get away from MS-Win, not find some
  non-MS clone
 
 in EVERY such post i see exactly opposite. they want windoze clones!
 they don't ask about how to learn unix, what to read, they didn't read 
 even basic manuals, or if so - just glanced.
 
 actually - there is a market niche for true non-microsoft windoze clone!
 it's strange noone try to fill it. it's millions of $ to earn!
 

Try ReactOS- it's exactly that.

I think its a version of Wine on steroids...

Also I think thats what Xandros and some of it's partners are doing.


 something working like windoze, running windoze .exe/.dll binaries and 
 windows compatible installer but for example not requiring gig of RAM, 
 powerful CPU running 10 times faster (not difficult to achieve) etc...
 
 
 
 i remember many years ago installing linux first time (linux was quite 
 good that time). i spent 2 months on it reading everything needed and 
 learning BEFORE asking questions on mailing lists! because i knew nothing 
 about unix at first.
 
 I knew only DOS and windoze 95 before, DOS isn't an OS at all, but that 
 is adventage too. but i needed something that made full use of my 25Mhz 
 486.
 
 Windoze definitely wasn't good in it. it just wasted hardware resources 
 giving nothing. that's why i tried to seek something different.
 and found linux.. after some time NetBSD, then FreeBSD.
 
 
 
 today - most of these wannabe-FreeBSD-users just don't want to pay for 
 windoze. nothing else!
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar




Try ReactOS- it's exactly that.

I think its a version of Wine on steroids...


does it really work - i mean all (or most at least) programs work.

can user simply put say - M$ Office CD/DVD and click setup?

if yes - they NEED MORE ADVERTISEMENT.

i will check it today on second disk. if it's OK i will start recommending 
it all people i know that use windoze.


thanks for info.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

FreeBSD? i don't think so.


While I can see the point you are trying to make, and it's a valid
concern, I don't fully agree.

What you are essentially hinting at is that having a forum will attract
less experienced users.  I don't think less experienced people are, for
some reason, 'idiots', but it seems plausible enough that having a


there are difference between less experienced and idiots.
the latter are less experienced and WANT TO keep it that way.

that's the difference.


_large_ number of inexperienced people may result in a significantly
lower signal/noise ratio.  I can definitely agree to that.


with 100:1 signal/noise ratio experienced people will start to leave the 
community. or sooner.


today we have at least 10:1


The web interface and ``editing in tiny boxes'' problem may be slightly


please note that webforums will attract only one kind of people.

those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they can't 
even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list


they will not become experienced unix users ever.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


I have the perfect solution for you since you know more than 80 - 90
percent of the subscribers to this list.

Why not create you own operating system and then pick and choose who
could use it. All of the source you need is freely available.

because it will take too much time.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


So Rolls-Royce should start to mass-produce cars for everyone? it won't
be Rolls-Royce anymore.


This is nonsense: better start charging money for FreeBSD then.
FreeBSD will not turn bad (or Linux) whenever more users are using it.


if it would be kept high quality i would be able to pay for it, unless the 
price will be horrendous.


but it would not keep high quality - developers will start to get as much 
users and implement strange but trendy features just to increase income.



This thought is totally against the Open Source vision: software for anyone.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


I don't want to fan the flames, but isn't that exactly what Wojciech is
suggesting?  That Linux went wrong when it began to cater too much to
the perceived need to give former Windows users a user-friendly
system?


exactly.



Anyway, I suspect that this discussion more properly belongs on the
advocacy mailing list. The OP's question probably should have been


is it? it's not advocacy. it's a  warning.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

have).

while there may be some benefit to freebsd becoming 'popular', it would


it is already popular within experienced users. number one or two.

it's just enough.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Zbigniew Szalbot
Hi,

 there are difference between less experienced and idiots.
 the latter are less experienced and WANT TO keep it that way.

Wojciech - I appreciate the UNIX knowledge that you have but
continuing this discussion in this manner seems pointless. Your points
are exagerrated to say the least.

I am very happy that FBSD now has forums for users. No matter what you
say not only less experience people use them. Not everyone loves
email. Period. And this condesceding way of talking about possible
FBSD users is what I am becoming sick of. I had the luck to be
introduced to FBSD by a member of this list. He did so much to help me
learn that I am now a happy user. You don't have to help people but
appreciate that there are now more channels of communications than
mailing lists. Online forums is just one example.

Yours,

--
Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:23:07AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:


 Try ReactOS- it's exactly that.

 I think its a version of Wine on steroids...

 does it really work - i mean all (or most at least) programs work.

 can user simply put say - M$ Office CD/DVD and click setup?

 if yes - they NEED MORE ADVERTISEMENT.

 i will check it today on second disk. if it's OK i will start 
 recommending it all people i know that use windoze.

ReactOS is somewhat of a joke at this point.  I've personally tried it,
and I cannot see how it can be taken seriously until its cleaned up and
made much more user-friendly.  There's also been some developer drama
in recent days, which literally halted the project for months on end,
and I don't know what became of that.

But does it work (e.x. does it function)?  Yes, it does.

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


Try ReactOS- it's exactly that.


well it's an alpha state now as stated on their webpage.

i wish they will finalize it withing reasonable time.
it would be great.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

Wojciech - I appreciate the UNIX knowledge that you have but
continuing this discussion in this manner seems pointless. Your points
are exagerrated to say the least.


exactly the same i heard years ago on NetBSD list, and more years ago on 
linux list. time showed that i was right.




I am very happy that FBSD now has forums for users.
it already had for years. just required to turn on brain for a minute or 
less to send subscription mail

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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


ReactOS is somewhat of a joke at this point.  I've personally tried it,
and I cannot see how it can be taken seriously until its cleaned up and
made much more user-friendly.  There's also been some developer drama
in recent days, which literally halted the project for months on end,
and I don't know what became of that.


quite bad, as their donation page. if they want to do something real 
then more people (but less than 10) are needed and finally implement all 
functionality.


they could sell it, instead of begging for donations



But does it work (e.x. does it function)?  Yes, it does.

--
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |



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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:27:08 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 _large_ number of inexperienced people may result in a significantly
 lower signal/noise ratio.  I can definitely agree to that.

 with 100:1 signal/noise ratio experienced people will start to leave the
 community. or sooner.

 today we have at least 10:1

Let's not be too pessimistic, shall we? :D

 The web interface and ``editing in tiny boxes'' problem may be slightly

 please note that webforums will attract only one kind of people.

 those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they
 can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list

 they will not become experienced unix users ever.

We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N
ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_
should spend their own time.  I think the later is not a good idea.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Zbigniew Szalbot
Hi,

 it already had for years. just required to turn on brain for a minute or
 less to send subscription mail

The fact that you love to communicate via email does not mean that
everyone shoud/must/does. And you shouldn't call people idiots only
because they have different preference than you.

Regards,

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
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www/xpi-mozex (was Re: Official FreeBSD Forums)

2008-11-17 Thread Matthew Seaman

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
| On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:29:42 +, Matthew Seaman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

| Oh, wow.  That's perfect.  Or it would be if it was compatible with
| firefox-3.0.4 ...
|
| It is.  I'm using it with Firefox 3.0.4, after installing the plugin
| from this page:
|
| http://mozex.mozdev.org/
|

Looks like the www/xpi-mozex port is a bit out of date.  1.9.5 in ports
versus 1.9.9 available on-line.  Unless someone beats me to it, I'll
submit an update to the maintainer this evening.

Cheers,

Matthew

- --
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   Flat 3
~  7 Priory Courtyard
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
~  Kent, CT11 9PW, UK
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREDAAYFAkkhPiIACgkQ3jDkPpsZ+Va98wCgik+ojzwwv6JqYh8ysyssL9Q9
SsYAn0y4FcChybrhBJprLrDTOP/zhIcC
=36mo
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


The fact that you love to communicate via email does not mean that
everyone shoud/must/does. And you shouldn't call people idiots only
because they have different preference than you.


it's not preference. it's self-limiting to just single interface for 
everything - WWW. today common trend.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar


today we have at least 10:1


Let's not be too pessimistic, shall we? :D


i'm realistic.



those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they
can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list

they will not become experienced unix users ever.


We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N
ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_
should spend their own time.  I think the later is not a good idea.


there is not much place to help ALREADY, as there are maybe 2-3 on-topic 
questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can.


but soon it will be much worse.
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Giorgos Keramidas
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:01:03 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they
 can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list

 they will not become experienced unix users ever.

 We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N
 ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_
 should spend their own time.  I think the later is not a good idea.

 there is not much place to help ALREADY, as there are maybe 2-3 on-topic
 questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can.

 but soon it will be much worse.

I beg to differ.  I don't like playing the `old fart' card, but I've
been a subscriber to questions for a decade or so.  I haven't noticed
any significant reduction in the quality of traffic.  It still rocks as
much as it did back in 1998 when I started lurking around here :)

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can.

but soon it will be much worse.


I beg to differ.  I don't like playing the `old fart' card, but I've
been a subscriber to questions for a decade or so.  I haven't noticed
any significant reduction in the quality of traffic.  It still rocks as
much as it did back in 1998 when I started lurking around here :)


well there is a difference



maybe this webforum could help by redirecting some kind of folks to it, 
making mailing list less noisy.



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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Modulok
 maybe this webforum could help by redirecting some kind of folks to it,
 making mailing list less noisy.


If we're talking about signal to noise ratio, this thread is getting
pretty high on the noise end of the spectrum...

-Modulok-
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Manolis Kiagias

Frank Bonnet wrote:

Hello

I don't want appears as an impatient and I KNOW people that
support FreeBSD are volunteers, I am a long time user of
our prefered OS

I just would like to have an estimation for the release of 7.1.

I have two new production servers that will come tomorrow
- If the release is a matter of days I'll wait
  a bit before installing them,
- If it is a matter of monthes I'll install them with another
  release.

Thanks a lot


I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC status 
yet on 7.1
On  a production server you will probably wish to go with 
7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of 
freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
trying at this moment.

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7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Frank Bonnet

Hello

I don't want appears as an impatient and I KNOW people that
support FreeBSD are volunteers, I am a long time user of
our prefered OS

I just would like to have an estimation for the release of 7.1.

I have two new production servers that will come tomorrow
- If the release is a matter of days I'll wait
  a bit before installing them,
- If it is a matter of monthes I'll install them with another
  release.

Thanks a lot
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Manolis Kiagias

Ott Köstner wrote:

Manolis Kiagias wrote:

I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC 
status yet on 7.1
On  a production server you will probably wish to go with 
7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of 
freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
trying at this moment.
I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production 
server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).


My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall 
7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run? 
What are the most serious bugs to expect?



Greetings,
O.K.



It all depends on the programs you run, your configuration, system load 
and so on. Bugs that may be present in the system, may simply not be 
applicable to you, if you are not using the specific part or feature 
that has the problem.  While it is difficult to assess without knowing 
specific details, I think 7.1 is generally stable at the moment. Maybe 
people using it in production servers (if any) can step in and share 
their experiences.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Robert
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:50:40 +0100 (CET)
Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing.  That means
  attracting
 
  NO IT IS NOT!
 
  Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;)
 
  -- 
 minix doesn't work well under high load. it's not even designed to do 
 this. maybe it will change, and full DMA ide drivers. will be
 interesting.
 
 it's really well coded.


I have the perfect solution for you since you know more than 80 - 90
percent of the subscribers to this list.

Why not create you own operating system and then pick and choose who
could use it. All of the source you need is freely available.

Robert
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Mel
On Monday 17 November 2008 13:01:53 Ott Köstner wrote:
 Manolis Kiagias wrote:
  I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC
  status yet on 7.1
  On  a production server you will probably wish to go with
  7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of
  freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
  You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for
  anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth
  trying at this moment.

 I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production
 server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).

 My question is, how stupid is that mistake?

Not very. The -stable branches really are stable, 99% of the time. Just glance 
through /usr/src/UPDATING. The difference between RELENG_7 now and 7.1 when 
it comes out, is:
- fixing of bugs that you would've noticed already (hardware issues, 
installer / boot code)
- polishing (dotting i's and crossing t's)
- even more testing then has been done already
- 2 week long security review by the security team
- the packages on the cdroms
- output of uname -r

The release is merely a snapshot of the source tree, that has had more eyes 
looking at it then normal. There are no guarantees. If your company policy 
requires you to run releases (+ their updates) on production servers, that 
would be the only good reason to install 7.0-p5.
Otherwise, keep RELENG_7 and once 7.1 comes out, change csup tag to 
RELENG_7_1, recompile and you're done.

-- 
Mel

Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules
and never get to the software part.
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Re: How can rsync with ssh be used on a non standard ssh port

2008-11-17 Thread eculp

Vincent Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I need to use rsync for backup to another machine using a nonstandard
port for ssh. 722.


snip


I've tried many variants but none have worked.  Any suggestions would
be greatly appreciated.


Hi,
-e 'ssh -p722' should do it in theory
I'm not certain if rsync over ssh honours the SSH_CONFIG(5) file(s) it
should do though. If so it could also be added on a per host basis there.
something like

Host foo.example.com
Port 722
User myuser
IdentityFile /path/to/custom/key


Hi Vince,

I tested the ssh_config changes and indeed they work beautifully and  
give me an added layer of flexibility.  This certainly seems to be the  
optimal solution for for different host configurations  without having  
to change remote scripts.


I hadn't even considered it.  Again DUH! Hello!

I can't thank you enough.

ed
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Ott Köstner

Manolis Kiagias wrote:

I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC 
status yet on 7.1
On  a production server you will probably wish to go with 
7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of 
freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
trying at this moment.
I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production 
server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).


My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall 
7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run? What 
are the most serious bugs to expect?



Greetings,
O.K.


--
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http://speedtest.zzz.ee/


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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Ott Köstner

Manolis Kiagias wrote:

Ott Köstner wrote:

Manolis Kiagias wrote:

I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC 
status yet on 7.1
On  a production server you will probably wish to go with 
7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of 
freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
trying at this moment.
I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production 
server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).


My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall 
7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run? 
What are the most serious bugs to expect?



Greetings,
O.K.



It all depends on the programs you run, your configuration, system 
load and so on. Bugs that may be present in the system, may simply not 
be applicable to you, if you are not using the specific part or 
feature that has the problem.  While it is difficult to assess without 
knowing specific details, I think 7.1 is generally stable at the 
moment. Maybe people using it in production servers (if any) can step 
in and share their experiences.



I have just regular internet things running:
apache22, mysql5, bind94, php5, postfix, dovecot, proftpd, clamav, 
spamassasin, snmpd...


...plus ipfw and pf

Actually there is one strange thing what I described here before -- 
'top' reporting incorrect process times. But this appeared already when 
I upgraded from FreBSD 6.3 to 7.0. The bug appears on all 7.++ machines, 
i386 and amd64. Everything is OK with single-threaded processes, but 
processes with multiple threades are reported incorrectly by top. 
Anybody else has experienced this?


Also, there was a strange phenomenon with FreeBSD router with pf.
the rule in question is:
'scrub in all'

I do not knw, if this has anything to do with 7.1 issue. Maybe it is not 
just a good idea to have a 'scrub' rule on router...


Greetings,
O.K.



--
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 02:49:26PM +0200, Ott Köstner wrote:
 Manolis Kiagias wrote:
 Ott Köstner wrote:
 Manolis Kiagias wrote:

 I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC  
 status yet on 7.1
 On  a production server you will probably wish to go with  
 7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of  
 freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
 You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
 anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth  
 trying at this moment.
 I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production  
 server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).

 My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall 
 7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run?  
 What are the most serious bugs to expect?


 Greetings,
 O.K.


 It all depends on the programs you run, your configuration, system  
 load and so on. Bugs that may be present in the system, may simply not  
 be applicable to you, if you are not using the specific part or  
 feature that has the problem.  While it is difficult to assess without  
 knowing specific details, I think 7.1 is generally stable at the  
 moment. Maybe people using it in production servers (if any) can step  
 in and share their experiences.

 I have just regular internet things running:
 apache22, mysql5, bind94, php5, postfix, dovecot, proftpd, clamav,  
 spamassasin, snmpd...

 ...plus ipfw and pf

I'm not sure why you're paranoid of 7.1-PRERELEASE (RELENG_7 at the
present time).  It seems like you installed it or upgraded to it, then
became greatly concerned for strange reasons.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about.  The only
gigantic difference, as I see it, is that the ULE scheduler is now the
default (while in 7.0, 4BSD was default).

I personally run all of the above services (minus bind94, clamav, and
snmpd; I use the base system bind, do not care for AV software, and use
bsnmpd where applicable), and I also run all of those services on
servers in my co-location.  We have a RELENG_7 box which is working fine
doing all of the above, on a dual-core processor to boot.

 Actually there is one strange thing what I described here before --  
 'top' reporting incorrect process times. But this appeared already when  
 I upgraded from FreBSD 6.3 to 7.0. The bug appears on all 7.++ machines,  
 i386 and amd64. Everything is OK with single-threaded processes, but  
 processes with multiple threades are reported incorrectly by top.  
 Anybody else has experienced this?

Sounds familiar (not personally).  There are efforts underway in CURRENT
to improve top.  I would recommend posting your top problem to -stable
or -hackers.

 Also, there was a strange phenomenon with FreeBSD router with pf.
 the rule in question is:
 'scrub in all'

 I do not knw, if this has anything to do with 7.1 issue. Maybe it is not  
 just a good idea to have a 'scrub' rule on router...

No, it's perfectly fine.  But your description of the problem is too
terse, and the issue should be discussed on freebsd-pf not here.

There *are* other problems with pf which have been fixed in RELENG_7
(7.1), and you can review my Wiki to see what those are.

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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HAL in GNOME

2008-11-17 Thread Anthony M. Rasat
Hiya all,

Can someone point me to URLs that explain how to set up HAL to work in
GNOME? I'm using FreeBSD 7.0 RELEASE. Somehow I can't find it with Google.

-- 

Regards,

Anthony M. Rasat
Manager - Technical, Network and Support Division
PT. Jawa Pos National Network
Graha Pena Jawa Pos Group Building, 5th floor
Jln. Raya Kebayoran Lama 12, Jakarta Barat 12210
Indonesia.-
Phone 02132185562
Phone 081574217035
Fax 02153651465
Web http://www.jpnn.com
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Bruce Cran
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:41:27 +0100 (CET)
Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  improving FreeBSD, there wouldn't be a need to convert.  Build
  it (and secure/stabilise it) and they will come.
 
  Indeed, what IS the value of more users to a volunteer project like
  FreeBSD?
 
 to some level - better driver support. but 
 windows-converters-seeking-for-nicer-windows don't write drivers.
 
 this level is OK, more users can make only harm.
 
 exactly what happened with linux.
 
 as heavyweight sponsors did. they pay but request not just adding 
 drivers but to add strange-but-trendy features and solutions that
 take system's quality down quickly.
 
 exactly that happened to NetBSD. i recently installed newest NetBSD 
 version just to look at it. it was damn slow and even slower under
 high load!!
 
 not mentioning linux that got just billion$ total sposoring from IBM.
 

Could you point out some of those strange-but-trendy features?  I tried
Ubuntu for a while on my laptop and it more or less Just Works.  It
boots up quickly, detects all my devices, has accelerated 3D etc.
Now I did move back to FreeBSD because I had problems with its
autodetection system - in particular the graphics card wasn't
configured properly. But that's a problem with Ubuntu specifically, and
I could just as easily have switched to Debian or Gentoo where more
manual configuration is required - just like in FreeBSD.   One of the
strengths of Linux is that if you find one of the new trendy features
doesn't work, you can generally just build a new kernel - without
including it. If it's user-space you don't like - well, that's a
problem with the distribution, not linux itself.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: HAL in GNOME

2008-11-17 Thread Mel
On Monday 17 November 2008 13:48:46 Anthony M. Rasat wrote:

 Can someone point me to URLs that explain how to set up HAL to work in
 GNOME? I'm using FreeBSD 7.0 RELEASE. Somehow I can't find it with Google.

Top result:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=hal+gnome+freebsd

-- 
Mel

Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules
and never get to the software part.
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Ott Köstner

Jeremy Chadwick wrote:


On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 02:49:26PM +0200, Ott Köstner wrote:
  



Also, there was a strange phenomenon with FreeBSD router with pf.
the rule in question is:
'scrub in all'

I do not knw, if this has anything to do with 7.1 issue. Maybe it is not  
just a good idea to have a 'scrub' rule on router...



No, it's perfectly fine.  But your description of the problem is too
terse, and the issue should be discussed on freebsd-pf not here.

  

OK. Thank you! Will subscribe to pf list.
Just to finish this talk, the problem was with 'pop3s' protocol. 
Removing 'scrub' rule from firewall made it work perfectly well...



There *are* other problems with pf which have been fixed in RELENG_7
(7.1), and you can review my Wiki to see what those are.

  

...and what is the address of this Wiki?


Greetings,
O.K.



--
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:09:15PM +0200, Ott Köstner wrote:
 Jeremy Chadwick wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 02:49:26PM +0200, Ott Köstner wrote:
   

 Also, there was a strange phenomenon with FreeBSD router with pf.
 the rule in question is:
 'scrub in all'

 I do not knw, if this has anything to do with 7.1 issue. Maybe it is 
 not  just a good idea to have a 'scrub' rule on router...
 

 No, it's perfectly fine.  But your description of the problem is too
 terse, and the issue should be discussed on freebsd-pf not here.

   
 OK. Thank you! Will subscribe to pf list.
 Just to finish this talk, the problem was with 'pop3s' protocol.  
 Removing 'scrub' rule from firewall made it work perfectly well...

 There *are* other problems with pf which have been fixed in RELENG_7
 (7.1), and you can review my Wiki to see what those are.

   
 ...and what is the address of this Wiki?

Wow, I figured by now everyone had it.  That's what I get for assuming.

http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/Commonly_reported_issues

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread GESBBB
 From: Bruce Cran [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:35:02 AM

 Could you point out some of those strange-but-trendy features?  I tried
 Ubuntu for a while on my laptop and it more or less Just Works.  It
 boots up quickly, detects all my devices, has accelerated 3D etc.
 Now I did move back to FreeBSD because I had problems with its
 autodetection system - in particular the graphics card wasn't
 configured properly. But that's a problem with Ubuntu specifically, and
 I could just as easily have switched to Debian or Gentoo where more
 manual configuration is required - just like in FreeBSD.  One of the
 strengths of Linux is that if you find one of the new trendy features
 doesn't work, you can generally just build a new kernel - without
 including it. 

Unfortunately, the inability to be able to include the feature / improvement is 
also a negative factor.

 If it's user-space you don't like - well, that's a
 problem with the distribution, not linux itself.

-- 
Jerry
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Frank Bonnet

Hello

Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?

Thanks
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Re: ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:44:23PM +0100, Frank Bonnet wrote:
 Hello

 Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?

Another FreeBSD user recently brought to my attention problems with
iSCSI on FreeBSD.  There is a patch available which fixes the issue, but
I felt you might want to know about it beforehand.

Issue:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003383.html

Patch:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003387.html

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| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
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| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Frank Bonnet

Jeremy Chadwick wrote:

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:44:23PM +0100, Frank Bonnet wrote:

Hello

Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?


Another FreeBSD user recently brought to my attention problems with
iSCSI on FreeBSD.  There is a patch available which fixes the issue, but
I felt you might want to know about it beforehand.

Issue:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003383.html

Patch:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003387.html



Thanks a lot for you quick answer !


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Re: host based authetication with OpenLDAP and FreeBSD

2008-11-17 Thread Jonathan McKeown
On Friday 14 November 2008 14:32, O. Hartmann wrote:
 Hello,
 I have a OT question and maybe some of the FreeBSD server admins here
 can help me out.
[snip]
 Having nss_ldap and pam_ldap installed on every single FreeBSD
 server/box which is capable of being accessed I found in etc/ldap.conf
 the tags 'pam_filter' and  'pam_check_host_attr'. Setting latter to
 'yes' implies having the 'host' attribute in each user's object located
 in OpenLDAP's DIT for the specific domain. But objectClass=account seems
 to conflict with objectClass=organizationalPeople which is a must in our
 configuration, so the host attribute is not of any further investigation.

Did you not like the answer I gave you in April when you asked essentially the 
same question?

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-April/174152.html

For posterity (again) the extensibleObject auxiliary objectClass was 
introduced for precisely this reason - so that you could add any attribute 
the server knows about to an existing object which otherwise couldn't hold 
it.
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Re: ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Ivan Voras
Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:44:23PM +0100, Frank Bonnet wrote:
 Hello

 Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?
 
 Another FreeBSD user recently brought to my attention problems with
 iSCSI on FreeBSD.  There is a patch available which fixes the issue, but
 I felt you might want to know about it beforehand.
 
 Issue:
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003383.html
 
 Patch:
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003387.html

Isn't this committed already?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: php5 Only IE Users can View Pages.

2008-11-17 Thread Jonathan McKeown
On Friday 14 November 2008 19:36, Martin McCormick wrote:
   I inherited a mrtg application thatnow is running on a
 FreeBSD6.3 system. Clients report that one can see the php pages
 when using Internet Explorer but not other browsers that should
 display the pages. Those customers see raw code.

   Any suggestion as to what I should be looking for?

Hi Martin

Bear in mind I'm answering off the top of my head, so you may need to do some 
digging.

I have a feeling that Internet Explorer ignores the Content-Type header from 
the server and displays what it thinks you should see. If the server is not 
configured with a MIME type for .php, the default with Apache is to send the 
pages with a MIME type of text/plain.

Internet Explorer will ignore this, interpret the page as HTML and display it, 
whereas almost every other browser will obey the server's instruction and 
therefore display the raw HTML as plain text without any interpretation.

Check whether Apache has an

AddType application/x-httpd-php .php

line or similar in the config file.

Jonathan
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Help! (Re: 7.1)

2008-11-17 Thread Ott Köstner

Manolis Kiagias wrote:

You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
trying at this moment.

Hi!

I had my workstation running 7.0-STABLE. Perfectly well till today. Now I 
compiled and installed the latest 7.1-PRERELEASE
and now Thunderbird and Firefox got really SLOW. Everything works, but Xorg is consuming time constatnly. Scrolling 
inbox is especially slow.


Recompile Xorg, Thunderbird??? Any help available?



CPU:  6.8% user,  0.0% nice, 10.9% system,  0.4% interrupt, 82.0% idle
Mem: 329M Active, 310M Inact, 139M Wired, 2696K Cache, 112M Buf, 1214M Free
Swap: 2000M Total, 2000M Free

PID USERNAMETHR PRI NICE   SIZERES STATE  C   TIME   WCPU COMMAND
 998 root  1  610   239M   160M select 0   5:42 16.36% Xorg
11866 ott   3  960 75596K 66008K ucond  0   0:00  8.40% opera
9280 ott   7  440 76156K 62604K ucond  0   0:00  0.98% 
thunderbird-bin


Greetings,
O.K.



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cvsup first time - connection refused

2008-11-17 Thread Yony Yossef
Hi,

I'm running cvsup -g -L 2 cvs-supfile with all kinds of host names
from this list:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/cvsup.html#HANDBOOK-MIRRORS-CHAPTER-SGML-MIRRORS-IL-CVSUP

I get a Connection refused error.

Help..

Yony
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seg fault when pkg_delete

2008-11-17 Thread Tsu-Fan Cheng
Hi,
   I have some trouble when make deinstall/pkg_delete some ports. I
try to backtrace with gdb, and here is what I found when exec
pkg_delete under gdb to remove p5-Module-Build-0.30:

0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7

any idea?? thanks!!

TFC
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CARP-Like Solution With Machines On Different Networks?

2008-11-17 Thread Alex Kirk

Hello All,

I'm attempting to put a redundant fail-over system in place for a  
machine that I manage for a non-profit organization of modest budget.  
For the time being, I'm most interested in having MySQL and HTTP  
connections roll over to a backup system in the event that the primary  
machine goes down for some reason, and then return control to the  
primary box once it returns - nothing particularly fancy.


After doing some research on the matter, it looks like CARP would be a  
winning solution - but only if the backup system was on the same  
network segment as the primary box. Given that there's no money to  
colocate a second backup system at the same facility as the main  
machine (and protection against failure at the colo facility is one of  
the primary drivers for the failover setup), however, it looks like  
CARP wouldn't be useful.


That said, are there any solutions which behave similarly to CARP that  
I could use for a pair of machines connected solely via the Internet?  
For now, I'd even be happy if there was some way to simply do TCP  
port-level proxying, so to speak (i.e. connections come in to a given  
machine, and are proxied to the main system if it's up, but go to the  
backup box if not)?


Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.

Alex Kirk



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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Ott Köstner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production
 server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).

 My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall
 7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run?
 What are the most serious bugs to expect?

In addition to what others have said, note that there are numerous
issues that have been fixed since 7.0.  The most serious issues have
been fixed for 7.0 (in the security branch), but there is still a good
chance that you will have *fewer* problems with what you installed.

-- 
Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area
http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 01:06:34AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:

 
 I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend.
 
 
 Could you please stop trolling?  You're not contributing to anything here.
 no - because i'm not trolling. simply ignore me if you don't understand 
 what i write

Unfortunately, the only one who doesn't understand would not be 
any of the other posters.
The community is much more trustworthy than you give it credit.
The community got us a valuable resource and will continue to
do so if people who might take an interest aren't too put off 
by perpetual negative spinners.

jerry

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Re: net-snmp port upgrade build error

2008-11-17 Thread Lowell Gilbert
R Dicaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Hi folks,
 After updating ports tree with portsnap fetch update, then running
 pkg_version -l '', pkg_version shows net-snmp is upgradable:

 pkg_version -l ''
 net-snmp

 pkg_replace net-snmp
 ---  Replacing 'net-snmp-5.3.2_3' with 'net-snmp-5.3.2.3'
 ---  Building '/usr/ports/net-mgmt/net-snmp53'

 You may use the following build options:

 WITH_INETADDRESS_HACK=yes   builds with the inetaddress hack
 WITH_TKMIB=yes  Install a graphical Perl/Tk/SNMP based mib browser
 WITHOUT_DUMMY_VALUES=yesProvide 'placeholder' dummy values where
 the necessary information is not available.
 WITHOUT_PERL=yesDo not install the perl modules along
 with the rest
 of the net-snmp toolkit.
 WITHOUT_IPV6=yesDisable IPv6.

 DEFAULT_SNMP_VERSION=3Default version of SNMP to use.
 NET_SNMP_SYS_CONTACT=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Default system contact.
 NET_SNMP_SYS_LOCATION=somewhere
 Default system location.
 NET_SNMP_LOGFILE=/var/log/snmpd.log
 Default log file location for snmpd.
 NET_SNMP_PERSISTENTDIR=/var/net-snmp
 Default directory for persistent data storage.
 NET_SNMP_MIB_MODULES=host disman/event-mib smux mibII/mta_sendmail
 mibII/tcpTable ucd-snmp/diskio
 Optional mib modules that can be built into 
 the
 agent

 ===  net-snmp-5.3.2.3 has known vulnerabilities:
 = net-snmp -- DoS for SNMP agent via crafted GETBULK request.
Reference: 
 http://www.FreeBSD.org/ports/portaudit/daf045d7-b211-11dd-a987-000c29ca8953.html
 = Please update your ports tree and try again.
 *** Error code 1

 Stop in /usr/ports/net-mgmt/net-snmp53.
 ** Command failed (exit code 1): make UPGRADE_PKG=net-snmp-5.3.2_3
 UPGRADE_PKG_VER=5.3.2_3
 ** Fix the problem and try again.

 ---  Processed 1: 0 done, 0 ignored, 0 skipped, 1 failed

 The port is trying to be upgraded with the same version as installed or?

The version in ports is 5.4.2.1, and that's the one you want to have.
I'm not sure why you didn't get it by using portsnap, but it's been in
the tree for a couple of days already.  Have you tried again?

-- 
Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area
http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/
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Re: ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:29:06PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote:
 Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:44:23PM +0100, Frank Bonnet wrote:
  Hello
 
  Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?
  
  Another FreeBSD user recently brought to my attention problems with
  iSCSI on FreeBSD.  There is a patch available which fixes the issue, but
  I felt you might want to know about it beforehand.
  
  Issue:
  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003383.html
  
  Patch:
  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003387.html
 
 Isn't this committed already?

The user tells me it is not, and that his replies to the patch author
have gone ignored.

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: large binary, why not strip ?

2008-11-17 Thread Kris Kennaway
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:56:31PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 
 most of the programs installed from ports have large binary size on disk
 
 stripping em all reduces their size dramatically
 
 I cannot see the reason for not stripping them by default ?
 
 me too
 
 do I miss anything ?
 
 no.

I am confused why both of you are seeing most of the programs
installed this way.  Can you confirm that this is true and not just an
exaggeration?

As Matthew says, there are some ports that fail to strip their
binaries because of how they install files (using cp etc).  These are
bugs that should be reported to their maintainers on a case by case
basis.

Kris

--
In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
-- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Roland Smith
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 02:01:53PM +0200, Ott Köstner wrote:
 Manolis Kiagias wrote:
 
  I don't think it is a matter of days, we have not even reached RC 
  status yet on 7.1
  On  a production server you will probably wish to go with 
  7.0-RELEASE-p5. It would be trivial to upgrade to 7.1 by means of 
  freebsd-update(8) when it is released.
  You probably don't want to risk 7.1-PRERELEASE on a server, but for 
  anyone running workstations, desktops, laptops I think it is worth 
  trying at this moment.
 I am a person, who made a mistake, installing 7.1 on my production 
 server (actually RELENG_7 stable, which shows up as 7.1).
 
 My question is, how stupid is that mistake? Is it better to reinstall 
 7.0 before something really bad happens, or can I just let it run? What 
 are the most serious bugs to expect?

It is not that big of a problem. I've been tracking -STABLE on my
destkop since 5.4 without major problems. Every once in a while you see
a failure report for RELENG_7 from the tinderbox build cluster, which
can mean that you shouldn't csup at that moment. And rarely there is a
report on the stable mailing list that something's broken and you need
to wait with updating until it's fixed.

The most effort IMHO is switching between major versions because you
then need to delete and rebuild all your installed ports.

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: 7.1

2008-11-17 Thread Brian Whalen

Manolis Kiagias wrote:
It all depends on the programs you run, your configuration, system 
load and so on. Bugs that may be present in the system, may simply not 
be applicable to you, if you are not using the specific part or 
feature that has the problem.  While it is difficult to assess without 
knowing specific details, I think 7.1 is generally stable at the 
moment. Maybe people using it in production servers (if any) can step 
in and share their experiences.

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I'm running a 7.1 prerelease from 10-31 on a dual core amd AM2 for mail 
with spamassassin, postfix, and procmail with a few virtual domains.  So 
far, the only issue I've had is that some new device support was added 
causing the drive number to change, that was an easy fix once I saw what 
the issue was.


Brian
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Re: cvsup first time - connection refused

2008-11-17 Thread Roland Smith
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:49:04PM +0200, Yony Yossef wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm running cvsup -g -L 2 cvs-supfile with all kinds of host names
 from this list:
 
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/cvsup.html#HANDBOOK-MIRRORS-CHAPTER-SGML-MIRRORS-IL-CVSUP
 
 I get a Connection refused error.
 
 Help..

First, you should run csup (which is now part of the base system)
instead of the cvsup port. 

Then try one of the mirrors in say Greece or Italy or France.

If that doesn't work, check that your firewall or router aren't blocking
things. 

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: cvsup first time - connection refused

2008-11-17 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:49:04PM +0200, Yony Yossef wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm running cvsup -g -L 2 cvs-supfile with all kinds of host names
 from this list:
 
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/cvsup.html#HANDBOOK-MIRRORS-CHAPTER-SGML-MIRRORS-IL-CVSUP
 
 I get a Connection refused error.
 
 Help..

 First, you should run csup (which is now part of the base system)
 instead of the cvsup port. 

That won't work at all with the standard cvs-supfile, which uses CVS
mode.  

 Then try one of the mirrors in say Greece or Italy or France.

 If that doesn't work, check that your firewall or router aren't blocking
 things. 

That's almost certainly the problem.

-- 
Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area
http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/
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Re: FreeBSD not stable enough for Xen environments?

2008-11-17 Thread N.J. Thomas
* Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-14 17:32:34+]:
  depends on how they do their installs, i know of a couple hosting
  companies doing it already
 
 Hey! Which ones?

Chiming in another rec for RootBSD as well. I've been a customer of
theirs for a few months now and very pleased with their service. (Apart
from being a customer, I have no other affiliation with them.)

To respond to what another poster said on this thread about their clock,
I've not seen any problems with the clock on my RootBSD Xen system. I do
run the ntpd in base and on average, my clock is usually only about 15ms
away from true UTC.

Thomas
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Re: High Noonn DVD??

2008-11-17 Thread Fabian Keil
Nikola Lečić [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:08:27 +0100
 Fabian Keil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Nikola Lečić [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:46:00 +0100
   Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
OK, that's nice to know. All the DVDs that I have play fine with
mplayer, but they're probably all region 2 disks. So I should be
able to play region 1 disks with mplayer?
   
   That's exactly what I am trying to do at this moment, with no
   success. I'm in the region 2 and I set my DVD drive accordingly
   (with a small C programme). Now I got some region 1 DVDs and
   libdvdcss is not sufficient as such.
  
  Which programs did you try?
  Do you get an error message?
 
 I tried mplayer, vlc and ogle and experienced the same symptoms like
 when this DVD drive was in virgin state (with no region-code set) and
 when I tried to play normal region 2 DVD, which means:
 
   * vlc - no output at all
   * mplayer - sound ok, video scrambled in colourful squares, producing
 a lot of errors like this:
 
 a52: CRC check failed!  0.046 ct: -0.029  21/ 18 11%  1% 23.4% 0 0 
 a52: error at resampling
 A:   1.5 V:   1.7 A-V: -0.197 ct: -0.036  23/ 20 11%  0% 22.8% 0 0 
 demux_mpg: 24000/1001fps progressive NTSC content detected, switching 
 framerate.
 a52: CRC check failed!  0.045 ct:  0.100  34/30 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0 a52: error 
 at resampling

If this was a classical wrong region code
problem, the disc shouldn't play at all.

I just had a quick look at:
/usr/ports/multimedia/mplayer/work/MPlayer-1.0rc2/libdvdcss/libdvdcss.c
An excerpt from the comment on top:

 * \li \b DVDCSS_METHOD: sets the authentication and decryption method
 * that \e libdvdcss will use to read scrambled discs. Can be one
 * of \c title, \c key or \c disc.
 * - \c key is the default method. \e libdvdcss will use a set of
 *   calculated player keys to try and get the disc key. This can fail
 *   if the drive does not recognize any of the player keys.
 * - \c disc is a fallback method when \c key has failed. Instead of
 *   using player keys, \e libdvdcss will crack the disc key using
 *   a brute force algorithm. This process is CPU intensive and requires
 *   64 MB of memory to store temporary data.
 * - \c title is the fallback when all other methods have failed. It does
 *   not rely on a key exchange with the DVD drive, but rather uses a
 *   crypto attack to guess the title key. On rare cases this may fail
 *   because there is not enough encrypted data on the disc to perform
 *   a statistical attack, but in the other hand it is the only way to
 *   decrypt a DVD stored on a hard disc, or a DVD with the wrong region
 *   on an RPC2 drive.

Maybe there's a communication problem that prevents
libdvdcss from detecting that the first two methods
aren't working properly and that the last one has
to be used.

You could try patching mplayer to only use the last one.

   * ogle - the flood of these kernel messages with syslogd eating a lot
 of CPU:
 
 Nov 16 22:21:58 black kernel: acd0: setting up DMA failed
 Nov 16 22:21:58 black kernel: ata2: FAILURE - non aligned DMA transfer 
 attempted
 
 After setting the region of my DVD drive to 2, I never experienced
 such errors (after uncountable number of local DVDs) until I got there
 region 1 ones. That's why I was so confident that libdvdcss is a
 problem.

I think it's only part of the problem.

  Did you try playing or ripping the discs on a GNU/Linux system?
 
 Hmm, my home is currently FreeBSD-only. :-) But I managed to try it and
 - -- yes, it works. Strange. In the light of your post about LITE-ON
 DVDRW LH-20A1S 9L08, is it possible that DVD drive causes all these
 problems?

I assume this could be a controller problem as well.
Trying another drive is probably the easiest way to
find out.

Fabian


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Re: large binary, why not strip ?

2008-11-17 Thread Masoom Shaikh
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:56:31PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 
  most of the programs installed from ports have large binary size on disk
  
  stripping em all reduces their size dramatically
  
  I cannot see the reason for not stripping them by default ?
 
  me too
  
  do I miss anything ?
 
  no.

 I am confused why both of you are seeing most of the programs
 installed this way.  Can you confirm that this is true and not just an
 exaggeration?

 As Matthew says, there are some ports that fail to strip their
 binaries because of how they install files (using cp etc).  These are
 bugs that should be reported to their maintainers on a case by case
 basis.

 Kris

 --
 In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
-- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Before sending mail I manually stripped * in /usr/local/bin

else I cud send u the o/p of `ls -lhS`

yes, most is bit exaggerated...I perhaps was talking about first five

binaries listed in increasing order of size...
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pkg_delete core dump

2008-11-17 Thread Tsu-Fan Cheng
hi,
during recompiling some ports, I found my pkg_delete core dump on
some ports (not all of them), when it dumped, it has something like
this (print/acroread8):

# gdb pkg_delete pkg_delete.core
GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions.
Type show copying to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type show warranty for details.
This GDB was configured as i386-marcel-freebsd...(no debugging
symbols found)...
Core was generated by `pkg_delete'.
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
Reading symbols from /lib/libmd.so.4...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libmd.so.4
Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7
Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
#0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
(gdb) bt full
#0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
No symbol table info available.
#1  0x0804b50c in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#2  0x0810b1a0 in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#3  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#4  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#5  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#6  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#7  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#8  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#9  0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#10 0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#11 0x0810b180 in ?? ()
---Type return to continue, or q return to quit---
No symbol table info available.
#12 0xbfbfd968 in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#13 0x0804adc5 in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#14 0x in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#15 0x000c in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#16 0x03e1 in ?? ()
No symbol table info available.
#17 0x28174af5 in fwrite () from /lib/libc.so.7
No symbol table info available.
Previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)
(gdb)

any idea?? thanks!!

TFC
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:58:39 +0100 (CET),
 Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce
  the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum.
  It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel
  for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine
  mailing lists.


I don't like forums for the fact that I have to wade thro the web to get
there, but I have no issues with these for FreeBSD as the announcement says
they are  a complement to our fine mailing lists. I prefer the mail to the
forums ans ince mail is still there, I am happy as I still have my choice.

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!
   --from a /. post
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread John Nielsen
On Sunday 16 November 2008 11:04:28 am Brad Davis wrote:
 The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce
 the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum.

Thank you!

For problem-solving and discussion my personal preference is still for 
mailing lists, but given this announcement I decided to check out the 
forums. I am impressed by the layout and design and the thought that has 
obviously gone into setting up the categories, etc. I think the Howto/FAQ 
section alone will be a tremendous resource even for those of us who 
generally stick to mailing lists. It's only been online for a day and 
I've already learned something by scanning the rapidly growing number of 
posts in that section.

The forums also provide a valuable means for those of us who don't 
frequently contribute code to support the community in other ways. 
Timely, helpful answers to questions of all levels combined with 
moderation and involvement from a large community of users will make the 
site a valuable, lasting resource for the projet. I hope to contribute 
what I can and encourage others to do the same.

Regards,

John Nielsen

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Re: CARP-Like Solution With Machines On Different Networks?

2008-11-17 Thread Chuck Swiger

On Nov 17, 2008, at 7:57 AM, Alex Kirk wrote:
After doing some research on the matter, it looks like CARP would be  
a winning solution - but only if the backup system was on the same  
network segment as the primary box. Given that there's no money to  
colocate a second backup system at the same facility as the main  
machine (and protection against failure at the colo facility is one  
of the primary drivers for the failover setup), however, it looks  
like CARP wouldn't be useful.


If you can't or aren't willing to pay for a second machine, I doubt  
that any clustering solution is going to be workable for you, frankly.


Most of the high-availability clusters I know about depend either on a  
multipath SAN or NAS setup to provide a common filestorage point for  
cluster members to synchronize with (the quorum drive for M$  
clustered SQL server, similar for Sybase ASE cluster or Oracle  
Parallel Server [now Oracle RAC]), or require something like a  
hardware loadbalancer (Foundry ServerIron, NetScaler, etc) which acts  
to distribute transactions only onto the parts of the cluster which  
are up and working.


That said, are there any solutions which behave similarly to CARP  
that I could use for a pair of machines connected solely via the  
Internet? For now, I'd even be happy if there was some way to simply  
do TCP port-level proxying, so to speak (i.e. connections come in to  
a given machine, and are proxied to the main system if it's up, but  
go to the backup box if not)?


Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.


TCP level proxying is suitable for shared read-only distribution of  
traffic (ie, such as static web content going against a pool of  
webservers, all of which can serve any of the traffic coming their  
way).  IPFW + natd can do this much via:


 -redirect_address localIP[,localIP[,...]] publicIP
 These forms of -redirect_port and -redirect_address  
are used
 to transparently offload network load on a single  
server and
 distribute the load across a pool of servers.  This  
function
 is known as LSNAT (RFC 2391).  For example, the  
argument


   tcp www1:http,www2:http,www3:http www:http

 means that incoming HTTP requests for host www will  
be trans-
 parently redirected to one of the www1, www2 or  
www3, where a
 host is selected simply on a round-robin basis,  
without

 regard to load on the net.

...but this paradigm simply won't work for content-aware traffic (ie,  
anything which has a per-user session) and it definitely won't work  
for a database.  MySQL clustering is a less expensive possibility than  
most of the vendors listed above (M$ SQLServer EE is $25K per CPU,  
Oracle RAC is $60K per CPU), but even so Sun wants to bill at $2500  
per day for a week of consulting to set it up for you.


Regards,
--
-Chuck

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Re: pkg_delete core dump

2008-11-17 Thread Mel
On Monday 17 November 2008 20:15:46 Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote:
 hi,
 during recompiling some ports, I found my pkg_delete core dump on
 some ports (not all of them), when it dumped, it has something like
 this (print/acroread8):

 # gdb pkg_delete pkg_delete.core
 GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
 Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
 GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
 are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
 conditions. Type show copying to see the conditions.
 There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type show warranty for details.
 This GDB was configured as i386-marcel-freebsd...(no debugging
 symbols found)...
 Core was generated by `pkg_delete'.
 Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
 Reading symbols from /lib/libmd.so.4...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
 Loaded symbols for /lib/libmd.so.4
 Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
 Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7
 Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...(no debugging symbols
 found)...done. Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
 #0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
 (gdb) bt full
 #0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
 No symbol table info available.
 #1  0x0804b50c in ?? ()
 No symbol table info available.

snip incomplete backtrace

You will have to recompile pkg_delete with debug symbols to get any idea. To 
do so, do the following (providing you have sources in /usr/src):
cd /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install
make clean
make obj
make DEBUG_FLAGS='-ggdb' depend
make DEBUG_FLAGS='-ggdb' all install

If this gives errors, it's best to do a full buildworld/installworld.
-- 
Mel

Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules
and never get to the software part.
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Re: root /etc/csh

2008-11-17 Thread Daniel Howard
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:22:11AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
  A statically-linked version of bash would waste significant amounts
  of memory, while a dynamically-linked/shared version would ease that
  pain.  The same applies for any static vs. dynamic program.

 How so?  Wouldn't a single in-memory instance of the bash text
 segment be shared among all bash processes, across all users?

 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-August/thread.html#36647

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-August/036654.html

 In response to the original post: The kernel's ELF
 linker/loader for executables will share the text and
 read-only segments for static executables.

This is consistent with my understanding.  A statically-linked bash
will consume more space on disk, and more memory the first time it is
loaded, but as with any other executable, the executable portion of
the program will be re-used each time another bash is run.

But I am not a developer or a kernel engineer, so if there is a way in
which a statically-compiled bash ends up consuming more memory on each
invocation for some reason, I'd appreciate an explanation as to why.

Sincerely,
-daniel

-- 
http://dannyman.toldme.com
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Re: cvsup first time - connection refused

2008-11-17 Thread Roland Smith
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:53:02PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
 Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:49:04PM +0200, Yony Yossef wrote:
  Hi,
  
  I'm running cvsup -g -L 2 cvs-supfile with all kinds of host names
  from this list:
  
  http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/cvsup.html#HANDBOOK-MIRRORS-CHAPTER-SGML-MIRRORS-IL-CVSUP
  
  I get a Connection refused error.
  
  Help..
 
  First, you should run csup (which is now part of the base system)
  instead of the cvsup port. 
 
 That won't work at all with the standard cvs-supfile, which uses CVS
 mode.  

And what mode does csup use that is different?

The supfile that I successfully used with csup says 
*default release=cvs tag=RELENG_7.

The standard supfile shouldn't work unmodified anyway. The host
CHANGE_THIS.FreeBSD.org doesn't resolve. Which is probably for the best :)

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
[plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated]
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Re: root /etc/csh

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:45:52AM -0800, Daniel Howard wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:22:11AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [...]
   A statically-linked version of bash would waste significant amounts
   of memory, while a dynamically-linked/shared version would ease that
   pain.  The same applies for any static vs. dynamic program.
 
  How so?  Wouldn't a single in-memory instance of the bash text
  segment be shared among all bash processes, across all users?
 
  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-August/thread.html#36647
 
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-August/036654.html
 
  In response to the original post: The kernel's ELF
  linker/loader for executables will share the text and
  read-only segments for static executables.
 
 This is consistent with my understanding.  A statically-linked bash
 will consume more space on disk, and more memory the first time it is
 loaded, but as with any other executable, the executable portion of
 the program will be re-used each time another bash is run.

We didn't get an answer to Oliver's question (see the bottom half of his
mail): http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2007-August/036653.html

 But I am not a developer or a kernel engineer, so if there is a way in
 which a statically-compiled bash ends up consuming more memory on each
 invocation for some reason, I'd appreciate an explanation as to why.

Someone would need to go through and determine using nm or objdump (if
possible), combined with procstat -v, to find how much would get wasted.

It also depends on what options bash was built with.  For example, I use
WITHOUT_NLS everywhere, which decreases the overall footprint a bit.  My
(dynamic) bash binary on my box at home only links to libc and
libncurses.

As it stands presently, I am under the belief that the benefits of
shared/dynamic outweigh static for specific environments.  I think I
mentioned it earlier in my mail, but on a machine with 1500 shell users,
the benefits of shared/dynamic stand out (think: sshd and bash).

I do understand your point and where you're coming from, though.  It
might not matter as much for bash, but I also worry the attitude
would start to get applied to other shells (like zsh, which is *heavily*
shared/dynamic).

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: cvsup first time - connection refused

2008-11-17 Thread Mel
On Monday 17 November 2008 20:48:20 Roland Smith wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:53:02PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
  Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:49:04PM +0200, Yony Yossef wrote:
   Hi,
  
   I'm running cvsup -g -L 2 cvs-supfile with all kinds of host names
   from this list:
  
   http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/cvsup.html#HANDBOOK-MIRRORS-CHAPTE
  R-SGML-MIRRORS-IL-CVSUP
  
   I get a Connection refused error.
  
   Help..
  
   First, you should run csup (which is now part of the base system)
   instead of the cvsup port.
 
  That won't work at all with the standard cvs-supfile, which uses CVS
  mode.

 And what mode does csup use that is different?

check-out only, for the moment. The csup author already has posted work 
on -hackers for repo-copy mode a few months back.

The OP mentions cvs-supfile, which 
suggests /usr/share/examples/cvsup/cvs-supfile. This supfile repo copies the 
entire FreeBSD cvs repository. To get anything useful, it needs to be checked 
out again, using cvs.
This is mainly used for mirroring and if you want to get different branches to 
a machine in one download, maintain local patches etc.
-- 
Mel

Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules
and never get to the software part.
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Re: FreeBSD not stable enough for Xen environments?

2008-11-17 Thread N.J. Thomas
* Maxim Khitrov [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-17 14:47:00+]:
  I've not seen any problems with the clock on my RootBSD Xen system.
  I do run the ntpd in base and on average, my clock is usually only
  about 15ms away from true UTC.
 
 That's interesting. Can you post your `ntpq -p` output here?

Sure:

$ ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  
jitter

==
+clock.trit.net  192.12.19.20 2 u  529 1024  377   81.5542.870   
6.477
+mail.honeycomb. 192.43.244.182 u  408 1024  377   44.091   10.986   
8.250
*tuppy.intrepidh 64.142.103.194   2 u  413 1024  377   67.709   15.626  
10.327
+clock3.redhat.c 66.187.233.4 2 u  445 1024  377  147.283   24.455   
9.397
+204.34.198.40   .USNO.   1 u  409 1024  377   88.746   20.620  
10.405
+tick.usno.navy. .USNO.   1 u  427 1024  377   20.848   18.916   
8.212
+ntp-s1.cise.ufl .GPS.1 u  421 1024  377   45.709   18.067   
9.222
 LOCAL(0)LOCAL(0)10 l   18   64  3770.0000.000   
0.004

This is what I pretty much used to eyeball my offset earlier.

 When ntpd is running, its polling interval stays very low (around 64
 seconds) because it keeps having to reset the clock. My message log is
 filled with the following:

Intersting, I see the same in my logs, but the frequency seems to be
much less than yours, e.g. for the month of November:

Nov  1 00:08:22 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.129649 s
Nov  3 15:33:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.137509 s
Nov  4 03:11:51 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.237734 s
Nov  4 03:34:23 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.150326 s
Nov  4 13:05:20 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.317738 s
Nov  4 13:32:06 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.560629 s
Nov  4 13:54:35 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.265391 s
Nov  4 15:43:55 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.163660 s
Nov  7 17:31:03 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.130039 s
Nov 10 18:29:19 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.169785 s
Nov 10 19:46:26 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.146554 s
Nov 10 20:27:08 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.891811 s
Nov 10 20:53:59 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.774636 s
Nov 10 21:35:45 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.384227 s
Nov 10 22:33:46 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.194131 s
Nov 11 12:34:25 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.433002 s
Nov 11 13:01:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.335592 s
Nov 11 15:17:45 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.933537 s
Nov 11 16:01:42 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.510371 s
Nov 11 17:29:41 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.133244 s
Nov 11 19:16:41 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.191431 s
Nov 11 19:42:30 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.458738 s
Nov 11 20:09:16 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.207999 s
Nov 11 20:36:06 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.143897 s
Nov 14 01:29:44 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.134492 s
Nov 15 13:13:36 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.199937 s
Nov 15 14:45:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.205131 s

 And so on... Could it be a problem with the hardware on host machine?
 I use the same ntp.conf file on several FreeBSD 7.1 servers, and the
 VPS is the only one that has this problem.

I checked on my other FreeBSD boxes (all 7.0) and none of them (VPS or
otherwise) exihibit this problem.

 I upgraded my VPS to 7.1 a few months ago, but I don't remember if I
 had this problem when using 7.

Mine is a 7.0.

Thomas
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KDE Login Manager leaves unexpectedly

2008-11-17 Thread Pieter Donche

In FreeSBD 7.0, set up KDE 3.5.
I want to change settings in KDE Settings/SystemAdministration 
/ LoginManager  (no shutdown possibility for a non-root privilege user)


This asks for the root password, I enter the correct root password,
click OK, and that dialog window closes and I back in the desktop ...

Why ???

(the root password is certainly correct, if I change a letter, I get 
Incorrect Password; try again)


I can choose 'ignore' and continue with non-root privileges, but when
I want to change something that requires root privileges, same dialog
box and when entering correct password, the dialog window closes...
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Re: FreeBSD not stable enough for Xen environments?

2008-11-17 Thread Jeremy Chadwick
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:01:02PM -0500, N.J. Thomas wrote:
 * Maxim Khitrov [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-17 14:47:00+]:
   I've not seen any problems with the clock on my RootBSD Xen system.
   I do run the ntpd in base and on average, my clock is usually only
   about 15ms away from true UTC.
  
  That's interesting. Can you post your `ntpq -p` output here?
 
 Sure:
 
 $ ntpq -p
  remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  
 jitter
 
 ==
 +clock.trit.net  192.12.19.20 2 u  529 1024  377   81.5542.870   
 6.477
 +mail.honeycomb. 192.43.244.182 u  408 1024  377   44.091   10.986   
 8.250
 *tuppy.intrepidh 64.142.103.194   2 u  413 1024  377   67.709   15.626  
 10.327
 +clock3.redhat.c 66.187.233.4 2 u  445 1024  377  147.283   24.455   
 9.397
 +204.34.198.40   .USNO.   1 u  409 1024  377   88.746   20.620  
 10.405
 +tick.usno.navy. .USNO.   1 u  427 1024  377   20.848   18.916   
 8.212
 +ntp-s1.cise.ufl .GPS.1 u  421 1024  377   45.709   18.067   
 9.222
  LOCAL(0)LOCAL(0)10 l   18   64  3770.0000.000   
 0.004
 
 This is what I pretty much used to eyeball my offset earlier.
 
  When ntpd is running, its polling interval stays very low (around 64
  seconds) because it keeps having to reset the clock. My message log is
  filled with the following:
 
 Intersting, I see the same in my logs, but the frequency seems to be
 much less than yours, e.g. for the month of November:
 
 Nov  1 00:08:22 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.129649 s
 Nov  3 15:33:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.137509 s
 Nov  4 03:11:51 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.237734 s
 Nov  4 03:34:23 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.150326 s
 Nov  4 13:05:20 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.317738 s
 Nov  4 13:32:06 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.560629 s
 Nov  4 13:54:35 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.265391 s
 Nov  4 15:43:55 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.163660 s
 Nov  7 17:31:03 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.130039 s
 Nov 10 18:29:19 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.169785 s
 Nov 10 19:46:26 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.146554 s
 Nov 10 20:27:08 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.891811 s
 Nov 10 20:53:59 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.774636 s
 Nov 10 21:35:45 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.384227 s
 Nov 10 22:33:46 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.194131 s
 Nov 11 12:34:25 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.433002 s
 Nov 11 13:01:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.335592 s
 Nov 11 15:17:45 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.933537 s
 Nov 11 16:01:42 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.510371 s
 Nov 11 17:29:41 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.133244 s
 Nov 11 19:16:41 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.191431 s
 Nov 11 19:42:30 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.458738 s
 Nov 11 20:09:16 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.207999 s
 Nov 11 20:36:06 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.143897 s
 Nov 14 01:29:44 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.134492 s
 Nov 15 13:13:36 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset +0.199937 s
 Nov 15 14:45:09 zaph ntpd[678]: time reset -0.205131 s

What time counter source does this box have available?  The following
will list what's being used (hardware) and what's available (choice):

sysctl kern.timecounter.choice
sysctl kern.timecounter.hardware

Other ideas:

Look into the fudge operator of ntp.conf.

Try deleting your ntp driftfile.  Note that if you do this, it will take
a day or two for things to level out.  It tries to figure out the
average skew rate your system clock has.

  And so on... Could it be a problem with the hardware on host machine?
  I use the same ntp.conf file on several FreeBSD 7.1 servers, and the
  VPS is the only one that has this problem.
 
 I checked on my other FreeBSD boxes (all 7.0) and none of them (VPS or
 otherwise) exihibit this problem.

Then there's a very good possibility it's hardware-related.  At my
workplace, we've had two separate machines in the past couple months
had clocks which went crazy -- ntpd reporting 4-5 seconds of skew
every 25-30 minutes.  In both cases, the problem turned out to be
broken/bad hardware (crystal or TSC gone bad).

Just something to keep in mind.  :-)

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

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Re: FreeBSD not stable enough for Xen environments?

2008-11-17 Thread Maxim Khitrov
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:38 PM, N.J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 * Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-14 17:32:34+]:
  depends on how they do their installs, i know of a couple hosting
  companies doing it already

 Hey! Which ones?


 To respond to what another poster said on this thread about their clock,
 I've not seen any problems with the clock on my RootBSD Xen system. I do
 run the ntpd in base and on average, my clock is usually only about 15ms
 away from true UTC.

 Thomas

That's interesting. Can you post your `ntpq -p` output here? For me
the problem is not just the inaccuracy without ntpd. When ntpd is
running, its polling interval stays very low (around 64 seconds)
because it keeps having to reset the clock. My message log is filled
with the following:

Nov 17 03:59:35 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.684038 s
Nov 17 04:18:44 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.840754 s
Nov 17 04:37:33 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.581726 s
Nov 17 04:57:28 ntpd[568]: time reset +2.078004 s
Nov 17 05:16:48 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.558386 s
Nov 17 05:36:41 ntpd[568]: time reset +2.245156 s
Nov 17 05:56:07 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.486516 s
Nov 17 06:23:25 ntpd[568]: time reset +2.386411 s
Nov 17 06:59:47 ntpd[568]: time reset +3.175640 s
Nov 17 07:19:02 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.134997 s
Nov 17 07:38:01 ntpd[568]: time reset +1.499600 s

And so on... Could it be a problem with the hardware on host machine?
I use the same ntp.conf file on several FreeBSD 7.1 servers, and the
VPS is the only one that has this problem. Actually, that's another
thing - I upgraded my VPS to 7.1 a few months ago, but I don't
remember if I had this problem when using 7.0. Anyone know if there
were changes made to 7.1 that would make the OS behave differently
under Xen?

- Max
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Re: www/xpi-mozex (was Re: Official FreeBSD Forums)

2008-11-17 Thread Matthew Seaman

Matthew Seaman wrote:


Looks like the www/xpi-mozex port is a bit out of date.  1.9.5 in ports
versus 1.9.9 available on-line.  Unless someone beats me to it, I'll
submit an update to the maintainer this evening.


ports/128945

Matthew
--
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 Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
 Kent, CT11 9PW



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KDE Login Manager leaves unexpectedly (2)

2008-11-17 Thread Pieter Donche


Addendum at the end:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Pieter Donche wrote:


In FreeSBD 7.0, set up KDE 3.5.
I want to change settings in KDE Settings/SystemAdministration / LoginManager 
(no shutdown possibility for a non-root privilege user)


This asks for the root password, I enter the correct root password,
click OK, and that dialog window closes and I back in the desktop ...

Why ???

(the root password is certainly correct, if I change a letter, I get 
Incorrect Password; try again)


I can choose 'ignore' and continue with non-root privileges, but when
I want to change something that requires root privileges, same dialog
box and when entering correct password, the dialog window closes...


When I first click at the bottom, the button 'Adminstrator Mode'
same dialog box, that closes at correct root password, but I am still
left in  non-root privileges (although there is now a red line arround
the dialog window) but most of the settings that one should be able to
change are grey .. because I still am not yet in root-privilege mode

the user I was logged in which is part ot the group wheel
(I a terminal window I can do aan su -, give the root paswsword and
have all root privileges)
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Re: FreeBSD not stable enough for Xen environments?

2008-11-17 Thread N.J. Thomas
* Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-17 12:08:49+]:
  Intersting, I see the same in my logs, but the frequency seems to be
  much less than yours, e.g. for the month of November:
 
 What time counter source does this box have available? 

kern.timecounter.choice: TSC(-100) i8254(0) dummy(-100)
kern.timecounter.hardware: i8254

 Other ideas:
 Look into the fudge operator of ntp.conf.

Yeah, I'm already fudging my local clock a bit. From my ntp.conf:

# local clock
server 127.127.1.0
# don't trust local clock too much
fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 10

 Try deleting your ntp driftfile.  Note that if you do this, it will take
 a day or two for things to level out.  It tries to figure out the
 average skew rate your system clock has.

Hmm, my drift file looks decent enough:

$ cat /var/db/ntp.drift
10.047

And it's being updated regularly enough.

 Then there's a very good possibility it's hardware-related.

I'll ask the hosting company about it though to see if anyone has
brought this up.

Thomas
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KDE Login Manager leaves unexpectedly (3)

2008-11-17 Thread Pieter Donche


Second Addendum at the end:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Pieter Donche wrote:


In FreeSBD 7.0, set up KDE 3.5.
I want to change settings in KDE Settings/SystemAdministration / LoginManager 
(no shutdown possibility for a non-root privilege user)


This asks for the root password, I enter the correct root password,
click OK, and that dialog window closes and I back in the desktop ...

Why ???

(the root password is certainly correct, if I change a letter, I get 
Incorrect Password; try again)


I can choose 'ignore' and continue with non-root privileges, but when
I want to change something that requires root privileges, same dialog
box and when entering correct password, the dialog window closes...


When I first click at the bottom, the button 'Adminstrator Mode'
same dialog box, that closes at correct root password, but I am still
left in  non-root privileges (although there is now a red line arround
the dialog window) but most of the settings that one should be able to
change are grey .. because I still am not yet in root-privilege mode

the user I was logged in which is part ot the group wheel
(I a terminal window I can do aan su -, give the root paswsword and
have all root privileges)

Addendum 2:

I tried with checking the 'remember password' in the dialog window
and entered the root paswoord. the window closes as before but at any
next try, I get nothing at all any more: Settings / System Administration 
/ LoginManager shows a dancing icon for 20 seconds and then

disappears, leaving me in the desktop (probably because of the same
non-responsiveness to a correctly.

How to remedy all this ???
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Re: large binary, why not strip ?

2008-11-17 Thread Kris Kennaway
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:40:34PM +, Masoom Shaikh wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:56:31PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
  
   most of the programs installed from ports have large binary size on disk
   
   stripping em all reduces their size dramatically
   
   I cannot see the reason for not stripping them by default ?
  
   me too
   
   do I miss anything ?
  
   no.
 
  I am confused why both of you are seeing most of the programs
  installed this way.  Can you confirm that this is true and not just an
  exaggeration?
 
  As Matthew says, there are some ports that fail to strip their
  binaries because of how they install files (using cp etc).  These are
  bugs that should be reported to their maintainers on a case by case
  basis.
 
  Kris
 
  --
  In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
 -- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Before sending mail I manually stripped * in /usr/local/bin
 
 else I cud send u the o/p of `ls -lhS`
 
 yes, most is bit exaggerated...I perhaps was talking about first five
 
 binaries listed in increasing order of size...

Yeah the largest binaries are likely to be unstripped.  You can use
pkg_which (part of portupgrade) to work out which ports they came
from, then send the mainainer a polite email and/or PR request that
they be installed stripped.

Bonus points if you come up with a patch to do this: in most cases it
will be a simple matter of changing the port's do-install: target to
use INSTALL_* macros instead of cp/bsdtar etc.  This would be a good
project to get some familiarity with the ports tree.

Kris

--
In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
-- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: pkg_delete core dump

2008-11-17 Thread Tsu-Fan Cheng
Hi Mel,
   thank you for your help, now I recompile pkg_install and run
pkg_delete again, under print/acroread8 it still coredump. here is the
result:

# gdb pkg_delete pkg_delete.core
GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions.
Type show copying to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type show warranty for details.
This GDB was configured as i386-marcel-freebsd...
Core was generated by `pkg_delete'.
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
Reading symbols from /lib/libmd.so.4...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libmd.so.4
Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7
Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done.
Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
#0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
(gdb) bt
#0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
#1  0x0804b50c in isinstalledpkg (name=0x0)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/match.c:374
#2  0x0804adc5 in requiredby (pkgname=0x0, list=0xbfbfe1a8, strict=0, filter=0)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/deps.c:202
#3  0x08049c14 in undepend (p=0x0, pkgname=0x810b180 acroread8-8.1.2_2)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/delete/perform.c:385
#4  0x0804a769 in pkg_do (pkg=0x810b180 acroread8-8.1.2_2)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/delete/perform.c:286
#5  0x0804a981 in pkg_perform (pkgs=0x810c060)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/delete/perform.c:112
#6  0x08049b2a in real_main (argc=3, argv=0xbfbfeb60)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/delete/main.c:163
#7  0x0804ab58 in main (argc=3, argv=0xbfbfeb60)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/pkgwrap.c:88
(gdb) bt full
#0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
No symbol table info available.
#1  0x0804b50c in isinstalledpkg (name=0x0)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/match.c:374
result = Variable result is not available.
(gdb) up
#1  0x0804b50c in isinstalledpkg (name=0x0)
at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/match.c:374
374 if (strcmp(memo-iip_name, name) == 0)
(gdb)

should I do a full buildworld/installworld?


TFC



On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Mel
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Monday 17 November 2008 20:15:46 Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote:
 hi,
 during recompiling some ports, I found my pkg_delete core dump on
 some ports (not all of them), when it dumped, it has something like
 this (print/acroread8):

 # gdb pkg_delete pkg_delete.core
 GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
 Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
 GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
 are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
 conditions. Type show copying to see the conditions.
 There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type show warranty for details.
 This GDB was configured as i386-marcel-freebsd...(no debugging
 symbols found)...
 Core was generated by `pkg_delete'.
 Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
 Reading symbols from /lib/libmd.so.4...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
 Loaded symbols for /lib/libmd.so.4
 Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
 Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7
 Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...(no debugging symbols
 found)...done. Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
 #0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
 (gdb) bt full
 #0  0x2815dae6 in strcmp () from /lib/libc.so.7
 No symbol table info available.
 #1  0x0804b50c in ?? ()
 No symbol table info available.

 snip incomplete backtrace

 You will have to recompile pkg_delete with debug symbols to get any idea. To
 do so, do the following (providing you have sources in /usr/src):
 cd /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install
 make clean
 make obj
 make DEBUG_FLAGS='-ggdb' depend
 make DEBUG_FLAGS='-ggdb' all install

 If this gives errors, it's best to do a full buildworld/installworld.
 --
 Mel

 Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules
and never get to the software part.

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Re: ZFS over iSCSI anyone ?

2008-11-17 Thread Ivan Voras
Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:29:06PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote:
 Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 03:44:23PM +0100, Frank Bonnet wrote:
 Hello

 Does anyone has tried to use ZFS over iSCSI ?
 Another FreeBSD user recently brought to my attention problems with
 iSCSI on FreeBSD.  There is a patch available which fixes the issue, but
 I felt you might want to know about it beforehand.

 Issue:
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003383.html

 Patch:
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2008-February/003387.html
 Isn't this committed already?
 
 The user tells me it is not, and that his replies to the patch author
 have gone ignored.

It looks like the iSCSI developer disappeared - I got a bounce message
(in French) on the last e-mail :(



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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Da Rock

On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 10:23 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 
 
  Try ReactOS- it's exactly that.
 
  I think its a version of Wine on steroids...
 
 does it really work - i mean all (or most at least) programs work.
 
 can user simply put say - M$ Office CD/DVD and click setup?
 
 if yes - they NEED MORE ADVERTISEMENT.
 
 i will check it today on second disk. if it's OK i will start recommending 
 it all people i know that use windoze.
 
 thanks for info.

Its currently a VM image so just use that - saves scratching a hard
drive...

Go to the vmware site and its located in the appliances section.

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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread cpghost
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote:
 You can register and start using our new service here:
 
 http://forums.FreeBSD.org

How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge?
Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list,
say, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored
to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from
freebsd-questions@ to the forums!

Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still
automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally,
as we do now with the mailing lists.

Please give it a thought.

Thanks,
-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Steven Susbauer
cpghost wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote:
 You can register and start using our new service here:

 http://forums.FreeBSD.org
 
 How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge?
 Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list,
 say, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored
 to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from
 freebsd-questions@ to the forums!
 
 Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still
 automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally,
 as we do now with the mailing lists.
 
 Please give it a thought.
 
 Thanks,
 -cpghost.
I think this would likely cause a riot, at least with freebsd-questions.
I think it is a better idea to leave them separate. A few things like
resolving categories alone could end up being a problem. Do you not
allow people to start new threads? If you do, where do they end up on
the forum?
  Steve



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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread cpghost
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:23:55PM -0600, Steven Susbauer wrote:
 cpghost wrote:
  On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote:
  You can register and start using our new service here:
 
  http://forums.FreeBSD.org
  
  How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge?
  Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list,
  say, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored
  to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from
  freebsd-questions@ to the forums!
  
  Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still
  automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally,
  as we do now with the mailing lists.
  
  Please give it a thought.
  
  Thanks,
  -cpghost.

 I think this would likely cause a riot, at least with freebsd-questions.
 I think it is a better idea to leave them separate. A few things like
 resolving categories alone could end up being a problem. Do you not
 allow people to start new threads? If you do, where do they end up on
 the forum?
   Steve

Hmmm... yes, on second thought not such a bright idea. But perhaps a
bridge to an archiving-only mailing list (freebsd-forums@) similar to
freebsd-cvs@ for forum posts could be set up anyway?

IMHO there should be a way to archive forum posts in some way, and
make them available in near real-time to users whose workflow is
much more geared towards mailing lists. One might miss an interesting
forum thread, because not everyone looks regularly there, but missing
a catchy subject line in an MUA from the forums may be more difficult.

-cpghost.

-- 
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Re: dlsym can't use handle returned by dlopen?

2008-11-17 Thread Markus Hoenicka
Don't mean to nag, but is there any news on this?

regards,
Markus

Markus Hoenicka writes:
  Jeremy Chadwick writes:
As promised: http://www.malkavian.com/~jdc/myprog.tar.gz

  
  This test program indeed works as expected. However, this doesn't
  quite reflect the situation in libdbi. I took your files and modified
  them accordingly, see:
  
  http://libdbi.sourceforge.net/downloads/dlsymtest.tar.gz
  
  To run the test use:
  
  LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./myprog
  
  We need to set the environment variable to let the linker pick up a
  shared object that gmake builds.
  
  myprog.c now just calls a function which is provided in libmylib
  (built from mylib.c). The latter file does most of what your test case
  did in myprog.c. The second major change is that myshared.so is linked
  against libmysqlclient (just like a libdbi database driver is linked
  against the client library). myfunc now calls a MySQL function to show
  that it is accessible (if you don't have libmysqlclient handy, you can
  replace it with whatever function from some .so is convenient)
  
  Finally, libmylib tries to obtain a pointer to that MySQL function by
  means of a dlsym call. This new dlsym call, in contrast to the existing
  one that acesses myfunc in myshared.so, indeed fails:
  
  myint = 0xdeadbeef (3735928559)
  == entered myfunc()
  == double = 3.141590
  ==mysql client version is 50051
  == exiting myfunc()
  dlsym() in shared lib failed: Undefined symbol
  mysql_get_client_version
  
  So, to make the problem clear again: while dlsym works when accessing
  symbols in dlopen()ed objects, it fails to access symbols which are
  linked into such an object if you use the handle returned by
  dlopen(). This is different from other OSes.
  
  regards,
  Markus
  
  
  -- 
  Markus Hoenicka
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with mhoenicka)
  http://www.mhoenicka.de
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Markus Hoenicka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with mhoenicka)
http://www.mhoenicka.de
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shrink ntfs

2008-11-17 Thread Albert Shih
Hi all,

Newbie question from a not newbie (well I think ;-) )

I've install many FreeBSD, but I always use the all disk.

If I've a laptop come with winxp  ? How can I shrink the
WinNT partition ? Can the FreeBSD install CD do that ? 

If he can't what's your advice for some software to do that ? 

Regards.
-- 
Albert SHIH
SIO batiment 15
Observatoire de Paris Meudon
5 Place Jules Janssen
92195 Meudon Cedex
Heure local/Local time:
Mar 18 nov 2008 01:35:38 CET
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Re: shrink ntfs

2008-11-17 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 01:39:48AM +0100, Albert Shih wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 Newbie question from a not newbie (well I think ;-) )
 
 I've install many FreeBSD, but I always use the all disk.
 
 If I've a laptop come with winxp  ? How can I shrink the
 WinNT partition ? Can the FreeBSD install CD do that ? 
 
 If he can't what's your advice for some software to do that ? 

No, it cannot.  There are a couple of utilities that come with FreeBSD
but, at last check, they did not handle NTFS.

I have successfully used Partition Magic version 7.0 (8.0 is crap) 
as long as it is not on a USB drive.   It won't handle USB and 8.0
will not either even though it claims it will.

I have also successfully used 'gparted' which is downloadable.
It worked for NTFS and also worked fine with USB disk.   There is
yet another one whose name I don't remember now.

Download gparted and burn a CD to boot and do the work. Or, buy Partition
Magic 7.0 and build the floppies.  Don't try using either on a running 
system..

jerry

 
 Regards.
 -- 
 Albert SHIH
 SIO batiment 15
 Observatoire de Paris Meudon
 5 Place Jules Janssen
 92195 Meudon Cedex
 Heure local/Local time:
 Mar 18 nov 2008 01:35:38 CET
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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Frank Steinborn
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:38:53PM +0100, cpghost wrote:
 IMHO there should be a way to archive forum posts in some way, and
 make them available in near real-time to users whose workflow is
 much more geared towards mailing lists. One might miss an interesting
 forum thread, because not everyone looks regularly there, but missing
 a catchy subject line in an MUA from the forums may be more difficult.

I second that.
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Da Rock

On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 10:40 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 
  ReactOS is somewhat of a joke at this point.  I've personally tried it,
  and I cannot see how it can be taken seriously until its cleaned up and
  made much more user-friendly.  There's also been some developer drama
  in recent days, which literally halted the project for months on end,
  and I don't know what became of that.
 
 quite bad, as their donation page. if they want to do something real 
 then more people (but less than 10) are needed and finally implement all 
 functionality.
 
 they could sell it, instead of begging for donations
 

If you start selling software like that, you end up just like another M
$.

Me personally I don't like the software and system introduced by M$, so
thats why I've moved to more secure systems like FOSS. I'd rather spend
my time working with a community like this fixing issues than wasting
time solving issues with win32 setups which simply don't hold water.


 
  But does it work (e.x. does it function)?  Yes, it does.
 
  -- 
  | Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com |
  | Parodius Networking   http://www.parodius.com/ |
  | UNIX Systems Administrator  Mountain View, CA, USA |
  | Making life hard for others since 1977.  PGP: 4BD6C0CB |
 
 
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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

they could sell it, instead of begging for donations



If you start selling software like that, you end up just like another M
$.


of course not like that. but with total of ca 2000$ donations over 2 years 
it doesn't make sense.




Me personally I don't like the software and system introduced by M$, so
thats why I've moved to more secure systems like FOSS. I'd rather spend
my time working with a community like this fixing issues than wasting
time solving issues with win32 setups which simply don't hold water.


me too. i don't use windows and windows-like environments. but again - 
there is a place for competition on that field.



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Re: Official FreeBSD Forums

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

Unfortunately, the only one who doesn't understand would not be
any of the other posters.
The community is much more trustworthy than you give it credit.
The community got us a valuable resource and will continue to
do so if people who might take an interest aren't too put off
by perpetual negative spinners.


we'll see within 2 yaers.
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realtime network replication

2008-11-17 Thread Ansar Mohammed
Hello all,

I need to replicate /home between two freebsd servers in real time (no
scheduled rsyncs)

 

What are my options?

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Re: re changing from vista

2008-11-17 Thread Wojciech Puchar

not mentioning linux that got just billion$ total sposoring from IBM.



Could you point out some of those strange-but-trendy features?  I tried
Ubuntu for a while on my laptop and it more or less Just Works.  It


very slow and badly under high load
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Re: realtime network replication

2008-11-17 Thread Chuck Swiger

On Nov 17, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:

I need to replicate /home between two freebsd servers in real time (no
scheduled rsyncs)  What are my options?


Most people use a network file system (ie, NFS, Samba/CIFS, etc) for  
this sort of thing


--
-Chuck

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Re: shrink ntfs

2008-11-17 Thread Kurt Buff
I doubt the FreeBSD install CD will do that.

However, I'd get a copy gparted on a live CD. That'll do what you want.



On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Albert Shih [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 Newbie question from a not newbie (well I think ;-) )

 I've install many FreeBSD, but I always use the all disk.

 If I've a laptop come with winxp  ? How can I shrink the
 WinNT partition ? Can the FreeBSD install CD do that ?

 If he can't what's your advice for some software to do that ?

 Regards.
 --
 Albert SHIH
 SIO batiment 15
 Observatoire de Paris Meudon
 5 Place Jules Janssen
 92195 Meudon Cedex
 Heure local/Local time:
 Mar 18 nov 2008 01:35:38 CET
 ___
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RE: realtime network replication

2008-11-17 Thread Ansar Mohammed
Ok, I have /home on one server, I need to REPLICATE /home to another server
in realtime. Kinda like a mirror, but over a network. I don't want to use
rsync because its not realtime.



 -Original Message-
 From: Chuck Swiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: November 17, 2008 8:28 PM
 To: Ansar Mohammed
 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 Subject: Re: realtime network replication
 
 On Nov 17, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
  I need to replicate /home between two freebsd servers in real time
 (no
  scheduled rsyncs)  What are my options?
 
 Most people use a network file system (ie, NFS, Samba/CIFS, etc) for
 this sort of thing
 
 --
 -Chuck

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smbfs 2 GB file size limit

2008-11-17 Thread Derek Ragona
I have FreeBSD 7.0 Release and if I mount_smbfs  a network NTFS share I 
have a 2 GB size limit on files.  I checked the handbook and list archives 
but have not found a solution.  Supposedly there is an smbmount as part of 
the standard samba, but that doesn't seem to install from any of the samba 
ports.


Any help would be appreciated.


-Derek
derek at computinginnovations.com



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Re: shrink ntfs

2008-11-17 Thread Sam Fourman Jr.
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Kurt Buff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I doubt the FreeBSD install CD will do that.

 However, I'd get a copy gparted on a live CD. That'll do what you want.



 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Albert Shih [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 Newbie question from a not newbie (well I think ;-) )

 I've install many FreeBSD, but I always use the all disk.

 If I've a laptop come with winxp  ? How can I shrink the
 WinNT partition ? Can the FreeBSD install CD do that ?

 If he can't what's your advice for some software to do that ?


I have used gparted with a windows xp tablet and it worked.

Sam Fourman Jr.
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Re: realtime network replication

2008-11-17 Thread Eric Schuele
On 11/17/2008 19:32, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
 Ok, I have /home on one server, I need to REPLICATE /home to another server
 in realtime. Kinda like a mirror, but over a network. I don't want to use
 rsync because its not realtime.

Something along the lines of this maybe:
http://phaq.phunsites.net/2006/08/11/realtime-file-system-replication-on-freebsd/

(Disclaimer I've not used the procedure above.)

 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Chuck Swiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: November 17, 2008 8:28 PM
 To: Ansar Mohammed
 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 Subject: Re: realtime network replication

 On Nov 17, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
 I need to replicate /home between two freebsd servers in real time
 (no
 scheduled rsyncs)  What are my options?
 Most people use a network file system (ie, NFS, Samba/CIFS, etc) for
 this sort of thing

 --
 -Chuck
 
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 freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
 http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
 To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 


-- 
Regards,
Eric




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