Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 09:55:04PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 02:07:36PM -0800, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Tuesday, 03 January 2012: So . . . please start with the denotative meanings of words, consider your audience, and use words accordingly. If you wish to use a term differently than how it is understood, make sure you clarify that fact up front. If others refuse to go along with it, find a different term to use that can better convey the meaning you wish to convey. If everyone followed your advice here, Chad, then 99% of the arguments on the Internet would evaporate. Thanks for noticing! -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Well Chad, you crossed the line. I don't need any clarification to understand this last statement like a poor insult. Let's do an exercise; you need it: 1) popularity demagogy rights 2) lawyer demandrights By analogy: 1) bicycleroad wheel 2) Unix groupswheel See? In that first paragraph where I mention rights in a popular context, I am exactly denoting the bad use people do of the word rights. You killed the messenger. Talking about an audience is beyond my goal. I expect just a human being on the other side; not necessary too much cleaver or cultivated just not having a MS Word Spelling Checker by brain is enough. So, I will not waste my time in quoting, sub quoting and meta quoting myself with this is a metaphor; this is a sarcasm; this is a hyperbole; this is a joke to the infinite; I made this in the past with people like you and I know that it is a waste of time. Anyway, thanks for your teachings. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation
On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 08:50:45AM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 12:33:28PM +0100, Walter Alejandro Iglesias wrote: On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 09:55:04PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 02:07:36PM -0800, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Tuesday, 03 January 2012: So . . . please start with the denotative meanings of words, consider your audience, and use words accordingly. If you wish to use a term differently than how it is understood, make sure you clarify that fact up front. If others refuse to go along with it, find a different term to use that can better convey the meaning you wish to convey. If everyone followed your advice here, Chad, then 99% of the arguments on the Internet would evaporate. Thanks for noticing! Well Chad, you crossed the line. I don't need any clarification to understand this last statement like a poor insult. Let's do an exercise; you need it: Wait -- what? I responded to someone other than you who commented (humorously, I thought) on the fact that the majority of arguments on the Internet are about terminology. How the heck is that an insult to you? 1) popularity demagogy rights 2) lawyer demandrights By analogy: 1) bicycleroad wheel 2) Unix groupswheel See? Not really. The same happened to you with what I said about rights, you didn't see the point. Then based in your misunderstood you adventured yourself to teach me how to expose my thinking. I will teach you something about life: 1) Never underestimate what others say. 2) Never think you understand at a frist sight what others say an their aim. 3) Never think you have a clear idea about nothing. The day you reach this point of maturity you will not reach to false conclusions like the following: The only exception that comes immediately to mind is the case where you may actually *want* to confuse and annoy people, and spark flame wars on the Internet, but it was not my belief anyone was trying to do that in this case. Confuse and annoy people? Oh boy, confuse and annoy mature people is not so easy. Flame wars? I am not an adolescent, I have real problems in my life. Don't be stupid. It's nice that you can dismiss people as irrelevant or unreachable when they try offering information in the spirit of helpfulness and correctness so easily. It must make things easy for you, I guess, though in this case I am not really sure how. Both statements are the conclusion you reach about me and, believe me, are far of the true. I can do the same you are doing and judge you like someone that conscious of it own mediocrity knows that must play dirty. To take words, sentences or meanings out of the context to distort and discredit the others discourse is the typical trick of this kind of people. Other conclusion I could reach about you is you are afraid I rob your audience, yes this audience that you judge from your superior point of view like susceptible to be confused or annoyed. Jealously is other characteristic of people concious of its own mediocrity. That's why I put you clear it is not my interest to reach your audience, ergo I am not your enemy. But instead of all this shit I preferred first to think that your misunderstood came from you lack of association capabilities. I project my honesty in others in the same way you project your hypocrisy. The day you reach to understand the three points I told you above perhaps you will be able to make things easy for yourself. In the meanwhile, please don't try to correct what you are not able to understand. Correct yourself. Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 04:41:10PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: New users are nearly always dismayed at the apparent difficulty of things, and should be warned that they will need to do some work under the hood in order to get what they want. The honesty can start immediately, it doesn't necessarily have to be a goal. When people think in freedom, think in rights. And rights are something that some authority give or steal. Multinationals think in what is good to sell. People like comfort over all. The taste of people is fantastically represented in the Wall-E movie; to arise and walk is not considered a right. Futurist?, my father, thirty years ago, to go to the corner to buy cigarettes, took the car; today he has half body paralyzed by an hemiplegia, and perhaps one day to arise and walk will not be a right for him. Let's avoid talking about non trivial tasks like hacking a kernel; for example, to copy or move a file you are free to choose between drag and drop with your mouse in a graphical file manager and open a console and use the command line, even in MS Windows. My wife, in case Finder.app crash, she reboot the machine. She ignores if an usb memory is filled up with hidden files used by Mac OS X; she ignores that files copied from a fat file system have executable flag on so she could resend an infected jpeg in an email to a MS Windows user customer. Furthermore she is not a good example of the average final user, because the machine for her (she is a graphical designer) is a tool, not a toy. The question is which immoral entity is stealing her rights? In an emacs mailing list I told Stallman that to teach people to be free is a contradiction. He called me defeatist. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:14:01AM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:12:11PM +0100, Walter Alejandro Iglesias wrote: On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 04:41:10PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: New users are nearly always dismayed at the apparent difficulty of things, and should be warned that they will need to do some work under the hood in order to get what they want. The honesty can start immediately, it doesn't necessarily have to be a goal. When people think in freedom, think in rights. And rights are something that some authority give or steal. Multinationals think in what is good to sell. People like comfort over all. The taste of people is fantastically represented in the Wall-E movie; to arise and walk is not considered a right. Futurist?, my father, thirty years ago, to go to the corner to buy cigarettes, took the car; today he has half body paralyzed by an hemiplegia, and perhaps one day to arise and walk will not be a right for him. You're confusing capability with right. These words are not the same because their meanings are not the same. I have a right to speak my mind, but if cancer requires the removal of my jaw so that I can no longer speak, I no longer have the capability of speaking at all. These are different things; a capability can be taken away, but a right cannot. Dear Chad, You took literally what I wrote distorting all its meaning. I don't know if you did it in purpose because you though that I quoted you to debate with you. Sorry if I made think you that. Anyway I have the feeling that you will do it again if I try to explain you with other words what I really meant, falling in an infinite loop. Surely other people understood what I meant (at least Da Rock did); with one person I consider myself lucky. Besides, you know, my Tarzan's english is not worthy of the occasion :-). My fault, from now I will restrict my posts here to technical issues. Thanks for your patience and sorry for the misunderstanding. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 04:26:38PM -0800, Waitman Gobble wrote: You have to have your nameserver listed with internic (for .com and .net - ie, your nameserver has to show up in the NAMESERVER whois (note: different than DOMAIN whois) on http://www.internic.net/whois.html) and also for each This is exactly the point I missed. At that opportunity I searched in all places except in the right one. Waitman I am very grateful. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 04:26:38PM -0800, Waitman Gobble wrote: Yes, you can run BIND on the same FreeBSD machine as your web server. You have to have your nameserver listed with internic (for .com and .net - ie, your nameserver has to show up in the NAMESERVER whois (note: different than DOMAIN whois) on http://www.internic.net/whois.html) and also for each TLD you want to provide service for (ie, .org, .mobi, etc etc) . If you are using opensrs it's pretty simple to list your nameserver with local and foreign tlds, but with other Registrars - you'd have to check into the details. It's generally easier to use a local domain for the nameservers (ie, ns1.example.mobi for .mobi domains.) but it is also possible to use foreign nameservers (ie, ns1.example.com to resolve www.example.mobi - is considered foreign) Waitman Bothering you again Waitman, Now after refreshing my memory (it happened one year ago) I could remember that I did register the nameservers. I found the option in my registar to add to some domain i.e. mydomain.com the entries ns1.mydomain.com, etc. I think that the problem I had was related with the IPs. The VPS provider gave me just two, and AFAIK each name server needs its own dedicated IP. Now I can remember that I asked to their support team and they answered me that the nameservers could perfectly share the IP with the domains. Could be that the reason I don't get the thing working? Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS
On Mon, Jan 02, 2012 at 11:06:39AM -0800, Waitman Gobble wrote: Hello, You /can/ have a nameserver with same IP as www. And you /can/ multihome your NIC with multiple IP on same machine, ie, www.example.com 192.168.0.131 and 192.168.0.132 (if you want, optional extra address for www) ns1.example.com 192.168.0.131 ns2.example.com 192.168.0.132 Waitman I thought I've isolated the problem. God is playing with me like in The Truman Show :-). Well, the next time I get a dedicated server I will try again. Many thanks Waitman Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation
On Mon, Jan 02, 2012 at 12:33:20PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: Ubuntu, actually, has thrown out the baby with the bathwater. In its zeal to make things just work in a particular manner, it seems hell-bent on ignoring all but one way to do things, even as it tries to dominate its entire market niche to the extent that it eclipses and marginalizes alternatives. My two cents with other point of view: OSs need popularity; it encourages hardware manufacturers to write drivers and, even better, share the source. That makes the existence of Ubuntu necessary for linux and indirectly to freebsd. To blame Bill or Steve and appeal to the freedom of users is demagogy since the real dictator are the users themselves. Unfortunately, average final user profile is nearer to my mother in law (she obviously uses MS Windows) than people with professional specific needs like you and me. Negate or hide obvious FreeBSD (or Linux) limitations is the same error than making look Ubuntu easier than it really is or worse, make it look like something that it definitely is not. New users feel fooled or betrayed, that's why some of them reacts complaining. Anyway I don't feel confident enough to assure if this is a good or bad marketing strategy. I remember, in a very bad network curse I did some years ago, a young classmate that after seeing for the first time the KDE desktop disappointed exclaimed: But, It is like Windows! I think the better strategy at long term is to be honest. Other point to consider is that the statements done by who initiated this thread are a goal; a goal does not need to be possible to be useful; they are necessary like a projection, like an idea. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 05:54:59PM -0500, Robert Huff wrote: Walter Alejandro Iglesias writes: Time ago I made the attempt to setup my own DNS in the same machine I had my web server running. DNS was the only thing I was not able to automatically update in the system with my scripts each time a new customer purchased a service. It would be wonderful for me if you or anyone here at least confirm me if it is really possible. What is possible - updating using scripts, or running BIND on the same machine as a web server (presumably Apache)? While I'm sure someone has written them, I don't know of any scripts that will update (whatever that means) BIND configuration files that are included either as part of the base system or as ports. However, running BIND and Apache is certainly possible - the machine I'm typing this on does exactly that. Robert Huff I wrote a bunch of sh scripts to update sendmail, apache, add system users, etc. Those scripts were executed by cron. I wrote a simple php client panel too. So, the sh scripts read the data from mysql (I wrote those scripts originally in Slackware and more late I left unfinished its migration to freebsd) and updated the system. For updating BIND I meant that the scripts (using sed) add zones in the zone files and restart bind, in the same way they add new virtual server entries in httpd.conf and restart apache. Sure, like you say, it is possible running BIND and Apache. But, is it possible|convenient that the name server reside in the same machine that host (with apache) the domain names served by it? Perhaps you find stupid my question, but believe me, I am lost :-). Or to simplify the question, what is needed to run a DNS? What I know: Edit the zone files. Run bind. Register the names ns1.mysite.com, ns2..., (some trick here?) Obviously adding them to the registrar of the domains served. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 03:24:59PM -0800, Waitman Gobble wrote: On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: Walter Alejandro Iglesias writes: Time ago I made the attempt to setup my own DNS in the same machine I had my web server running. DNS was the only thing I was not able to automatically update in the system with my scripts each time a new customer purchased a service. It would be wonderful for me if you or anyone here at least confirm me if it is really possible. What is possible - updating using scripts, or running BIND on the same machine as a web server (presumably Apache)? While I'm sure someone has written them, I don't know of any scripts that will update (whatever that means) BIND configuration files that are included either as part of the base system or as ports. However, running BIND and Apache is certainly possible - the machine I'm typing this on does exactly that. Robert Huff I agree with Robert, it's generally no problem, at least technically, to run BIND on the same machine. (Unless in certain situations I can think of at the moment) you are running your httpd server on a non-public network behind a firewall, doing certain things with NAT on the router, or running httpd on a private machine that only gets traffic from a public-facing cache/proxy like squid. These situations don't rule out use but could cause 'looping' or otherwise cause problems depending on how your network and name system is setup. It is better to have more than one machine running name services, if possible. Also a good idea to prohibit zone transfers and recursive lookups, or at least limit very carefully. You should be able to set up a zone update thing for your customers, just keep TTL somewhat short, and update your serial # in the zone so that external caches will pull the updates (using date and/or time is probably best.) And you probably don't want the daemon/nobody httpd user fooling around with the zone files or named process directly so it's best to set a signal in your script like 'touch /tmp/updatebind' or something and have a cron job check for the 'signal'. Waitman Thanks Waitman, The true is I am a bit lost, perhaps (here is late, 00:54) I am a bit hungry and tired :-). I will dinner, sleep and tomorrow morning with a fresh mind I will reread carefully this last message. I'll buy the book you advised too. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Same version on binary packages and updated ports
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 01:14:35PM +, RW wrote: If it's for a production server, you might consider building your own packages on a separate machine. My principal interest is server side. The true is, a year ago, I gave a try to a server (a web server) in a VPS and the only two things I must to compile was the kernel to add quota support and php5 to add the apache module (surely, being a novice, that defaults obey to reasons I ignore). I abandoned because the provider was at US and ssh was very slow from Europe (where I live). With updates at server side, the only point I'd like experienced people here give me an opinion about is to what extent I can rely security patches on freebsd-update command. Just a subjective opinion is enough, nothing specific. Other thing I have pending to learn is what poly mentioned: jails. Anyway I inquire into updates because I try as far as possible to run the same OS at my desktop to avoid checking man pages each time I use ls or cp :-). But, in general, I think I am fine with RELEASE at desktop too. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Same version on binary packages and updated ports
I really appreciate that you all, Jerry, Polytropon and Chuck, took your time to answer me. But I think some of you understood paragraphs like individual-separated statements, that's why you did not fully understand my question (my horrible English helps too :-)). Let's see if I can explain myself. I know that FreeBSD base system and 3rd party are managed separately. For RELEASE I meant the ports included in a fresh RELEASE install. The scenario is: what to do after a fresh RELEASE install. Once you updated the ports with 'portsnap fech extract update' you have newer versions at the port tree. Then you can upgrade the already installed software using portupgrade... But compiling! Because, to download *binary* packages, both tools, portupgrade and pkg_add, will download RELEASE, STABLE or CURRENT versions of software depending on what you put in PACKAGESITE variable. So, unless I am missing some portupgrade option-feature, once the port tree is updated I must compile all from source. The opposite leads to dependencies issues. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Same version on binary packages and updated ports
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 01:03:01PM -0600, Adam Vande More wrote: That is the price you pay for updated software on FreeBSD. OK, Adam. That's almost as expected. -- Adam Vande More Thanks to all. Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Same version on binary packages and updated ports
Hello, I am giving my firsts steps with FreeBSD. I've searched a lot in google, mailing list, forums, freebsd handbook and I am still not clear about the following. In a RELEASE fresh install, after updating the ports using i.e. portsnap, the packages downloaded with pkp_add -r are older versions respect their port counterparts, leading to dependencies issues. So, once the ports tree is updated: 1) Am I forced to compile all? 2) Should I use STABLE to get the same versions with pkg_add than compiling up to date ports? Are STABLE packages compiled from this ports? 3) In case my assumption above is correct; taking in care that in a production system it is advisable (handbook) to stay with RELEASE, should I avoid updating the ports tree in i.e. a server machine? What to do with broken ports in this case? Resuming, is there a default way to install-update the software keeping ports and binary packages in one piece? What is advisable in general terms for a desktop and what for a server? It will be enough for me if someone just point me to documentation. Big thanks Walter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
